Is homosexuality a natural thing?

I didn't struggle. You were the one trying to use that as an argument.

HIV doesn't only spread through sex. You should know that before saying that.

Because of homophobic people like you. Sex education for homosexuals is terrible because idiotic conservatives think that it is wrong to tell people that homosexuals exist. It's not that uncommon to find someone who thinks "condoms are to prevent pregnancy, and guys can't get pregnant, therefore I don't need a condom"

Well, as far as I know, it's quite acceptable in the West. But, what will they teach anyway? if contraceptives eliminate the possibility of everything then tell me, should we use contraceptives as an excuse for bestiality as well?

Back to the point; it's not natural. Not by any means.

How have you managed to bring bestiality into this? That makes less sense than "if we accept Islam should we also accept catapulting infants into the sun?"

You don't have a single leg to stand on. Admit that you have no idea what you're talking about and close this stupid thread.

Because it connects. The real argument here was about it being natural or not. And it was not but still to justify it, contraceptives were thrown in the mix. Then magic happened and everything was alright. One day, I'm afraid humanity will degrade to the level of bestiality and they'll claim that contraceptives protect them so it's ok. That's how it is.

Ok.

No it doesn't connect. I can't believe I actually have to explain this, but the reason bestiality is not allowed is because animals can't give consent. It has absolutely nothing to do with health concerns that can be prevented with contraceptives.

Can you give a single reason why homosexuality is unnatural or bad? So far every argument you've made has been shown to be nonsense.

putting labels on thing becomes less natural and more a social construct, getting off one however one pleases though, natural as far as I'm concerned, finding mutual beneficial and recipocated companionship, natural as well

When did giving 'consent' became so important to you guys? sex is a casual thing isn't it? or it can be casual right? but wait... when we kill animals, we do this against there consent. So, we might tend to not give a damn about their consent when it comes bestiality as well. Who knows?..


Of course you didn't read close enough. JyePhye proved it. That link he provided cleared out anything about it being natural. It's unnatural. Now we're discussing why is it bad.

So rape is ok if you do it casually? Do you not understand what consent means or are you completely insane?

Given the topic, "natural" has its own meaning, and one I don't support, even though I'm in full support of gay rights. Those that wish to suppress homosexuality, call it a disorder, disease, perverse impulses, whatever, the religious right, they take the position that it's a choice or that it's a disorder of sorts that can be corrected (through prayer).

I feel it's this position that has pushed those that support homosexuality to claim it's innate, which I can understand if there's genetic factors that might give people a predisposition toward being homosexual. Though, I think sexuality is something that's developed through experiences that shape people, as well as our environment.

Take the nature of fetishes for instance. It's been argued that types of fetishes have psychological origins in the course of human experience that leave impressions on us as we develop. And this in ways shows our sexual desires can be shaped by our experiences. Why then can't our sexual feelings toward members of one sex or the other be shaped just as easily? I think it can be shaped by society's prohibition against homosexuality just the same.

I think there's a multitude of variables, including both genetics as well as our psychological experiences.

So go ahead, you first: why is homosexuality bad?

If by natural you mean occurs in nature without the need for human influence, then yes, it certainly seems that way. As others have said, homosexuality has been observed in other species too. I'd like to point out that saying homosexuality is "natural" is in no way a point in favor of homosexuality - just because something occurs naturally doesn't make it good or not harmful.

Just to make things clear, I'm not opposed to homosexuality or gay marriage, it's just calling it "natural" as a defense is silly when you have so many REAL reasons to support the legalization of homosexuality and gay marriage, like the fact that doing so doesn't create any victims - there's a good start...

"Because if you see, societies where homosexuals are generally despised, there are almost zero homos to be found there"

That's like really weird. Can't work out why that would be....

Not sure why he thinks that. Homosexuality is very common in the middle east. They just don't openly identify as homosexual.

@toast_burner: well to his arguement we do other things to animals without their consent. Cage them, tie them and lock them up. We choose mates for breeding and come out with cross breeds to our liking. It's only really not allowed because it disgusts most people. I mean since when did we need consent from an animal to do anything else with it?

We kill humans without their consent all the time. The fact is when you have sex with anything you need consent.

@toast_burner:

Prevalent everywhere no doubt, just varying degrees of repression. As for the middle East I anticipate that repression to be somewhat higher, all things considered..

@toast_burner: yea when at war or convicted criminals. I am not trying to argue for it I am just saying the only reason it's unacceptable is because of disgust. Animals for the most prt are considered property.

Homophobia is not the reason laff...the reason why gay males (not gays in general as males contract it at a much higher rate then gay females) is because the propensity for anal sex which is one of the easiest ways to catch AIDS, in addition to the number of partners and risky behaviors gay males have.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/index.html

To the topic, yes, I think homosexuality is natural and can be observed in not just humans but other animal species. Homosexuals should therefore be treated with the same respect and dignity of other human beings.

Of course it's natural. We weren't genetically engineered to be one or the other - people just are what they are.

Difference happens because nature demands it for whatever reason, like it or hate it, what is will always be. In other words - get over yourself and just let nature do it's thing like it's always done for centuries.

I never said doing something casually makes it lawful. I was just using the Western ideology against you. Where sex is nothing more than a hobby.

I know what consent means and I've proved my point. You're just going on with your fallacies.

What GazaAli said. It's of no use to the nature and the society. It is merely a convenience. Just like prostitution. And I don't think that the society has degraded to the extent where it would consider prostitution as lawfully and morally a good thing. Prostitution is there because of sexual frustration. Homosexuality is thus the result of sexual frustration as well.

Wow everything nowadays is starting to be considered 'natural'. In that case if a father and a daughter are in love with each other, it is socially acceptable for them to have intimate relations with each other. I really hope our human race will not get to that point... or has it already?

@BboyStatix: depends where u r from lol

I'm from Hong Kong so I haven't heard of such a thing happening here. The people here aren't that perverted

I find it funny how racists and homophobes talk about the decline of society. You can't get any lower than being racist, homophobic or sexist. You are the absolute worst kind of people and you're too stupid to see that.

it has been known to happen in nature, so....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism_(zoology)

Seems like cannibalism is a common ecological interaction in the animal kingdom. So I guess this behaviour should be acceptable

Holy hyperbole!

I can think of many things other than being racist, homophobic, or sexist that would make them worse people...what a joke. Serial killing maniac? Well, at least he doesn't hate gays! Now that would be truly awful!

@pyro1245: I know some animals show homosexual tendencies in nature. But are they exclusively homosexual? Do they do this just to dominate another male? Do they perfer same sex mate or is it just cause they are animals and horny and don't care? Lol

With that whatever is natural or unnatural I say do whatever makes you happy and isn't hurting someone else.

You know you're a bad person when the first example you can think of someone who is worse than you is a serial killer. And lets be honest, serial killers aren't that bad. As individuals they are horrible, but they are only responsible for a tiny amount of the suffering in the world. Racism, homophobia and sexism results in much more problems.

Do you really think not being a murder means you're good? Is that really how pathetic you are?

Typical toast_burner

"Do you really think not being a murder means you're good?"

Did I say that? Exactly. Now try and brush the sand out of your panties and calm down.

You aren't even making sense. Fact is your comment was ridiculous...there's a lot worse things that being a sexist for instance...and yes...one of which is being a crazed killer. Other examples would be some psychopath that goes out of their way to hurt people, even if it's just emotionally, and has some really messed up and twisted outlook on other people in general.

I mean, there's people who probably don't hate Gays, but at the same time are otherwise good people just have some kind of moral objection to them getting married. I'm sure you would say they were homophobic, and I probably agree, but that certainly doesn't make them the absolute worst people on the face of the planet.

Being homphobic/sexist,etc isn't a good thing...but pretending like it's the absolutely worst thing ever and the lowest form of humanity possible? Get a grip.

Yet it causes far more damage than any of those things you mentioned. How many people have been murdered because of their religious believes by ISIS in the past few months? Now how many people have been killed by serial killers?

Honestly, I can't properly express my dislike for topics like these. Why does it matter is it "natural" or not? What defines natural anyway? Even if you need protection for sex I think the love is natural alright. The fact is that people are born homosexual and they cannot change that, and it shouldn't matter to you what other people are doing with their lives in any case.

And when it comes to homosexuality being down in countries where it's frowned upon; I don't think you'd be out in the streets yelling you're gay when people are ready to stone you to death for that.

Bwahaha!

So a guy who may not like gays but otherwise is a nice dude causes more damage than a guy who goes around cutting people's heads off. Got it.

I see what you are trying to do, but it's ridiculous. That's like putting the murders made by those girls over slender man on all people who like slender man. Or deaths from a war on all people of a specific religion because that leader/government was that religion. Doesn't work that way...someone may not like gays, or hell, even just don't think they should get married doesn't mean they are responsible nor would they agree with killing gays by people who also didn't like them.

What a ridiculous comment from you...holy crap.

Even if it's considered unnatural does that make it wrong? If we were strictly natural when it came to sex would we choose to only have one partner? Why would we use birth control because sex is naturally used to have children. Wouldn't we choose are partner by strength, health to continue on the best genes instead of letting love get in the way?

I prefer to look at the root of the problem rather than waiting until it's too late.

And you stand hand in hand with all of them in some giant circle jerk. Right down there with the humans who think the entire species is bad because of one other human.

I just find it comical that you can say that when you yourself lack the integrity or virtues to not become the hate filled person you are.

Or unable to understand the everything that allows you to make a post of such anger is the very reasoning that should tell you just how wrong you are.

Doesn't change the fact your initial (and subsequent) comments are nonsense. How good/bad a person is certainly is partially dependent on what they think...sure. But there's a huge, gigantic, colossal difference between "I don't hate gays, wish them peace, but do not think their lifestyle is moral" and "gays are the scum of the earth and must be eradicated from existence!"

A person who is otherwise "good" and holds the first opinion certainly isn't the worst person on the face of the earth, nor are they responsible for the actions that crazy people in the second group may or may not do.

I mean look in the mirror for a second...you literally said that anyone who may have a certain opinion (backwards as it may be), is the worst type of scum in the world. Frankly, if you lived in a society where gays were the majority that's the type of angry, absolutist, and fanatic opinion that could indeed spark violence.

The people who go out and kill are doing it for the same silly reasons people protest against people getting equal rights. No their actions aren't as bad. But they legitimise the actions of groups like ISIS or the KKK.

Where did I say that scum should be killed? How can my views lead to violence? Telling people that they are part of one of the worst problems the earth has ever faced is not the same as telling them that they shouldn't exist.

Being a gay is not natural and they aren't born this way either. It has already been clarified and established in this thread. How they are unnatural and why they are bad for the society and the nature.. Both notions have been made. Try to read every post.

@i_return: animals are homosexual, so yes. It is natural. Or else wouldn't the so called sky god make all creatures just be heterosexual?

Unlike yourself, I don't lean on "scientific proof" about everything and rather think about things with my own brain. You can link me as many articles as you like, but keep in mind I could dig up an article that says the complete opposite. Knowledge keeps on changing. I'm not saying what is or isn't true, I'm just saying that homosexuals indeed exist and they cannot choose to whom they're attracted to.

I still can't see how homosexuality is bad for the society or the nature.

Read GazaAli's posts. If that doesn't clarify it, then nothing will. In worst case scenario, like alim298 says, we'll just agree to disagree.

That reason to justify it as stupid as it can get. Some of the Animals are homosexual, sure. But it's in their gene and their whole race gets some kind of a benefit or their homosexual behavior has some benefit to their ecosystem. But when it comes to humans, it's not in our genes. It's not natural for us. If we indulge in it, it's harmful for us.

There's a higher chance of dying from childbirth in heterosexual relationships.

And I always find this "is it natural/unnatural" stuff stupid. Everything is natural, we are natural. Also societies where homosexuals are despised have homosexuals, I have no idea where you got that idea from.

Despite the bible thumpers..yes..it is natural..we as humans are attracted to sex..really only in our minds do we start to make something bad..or a sin..I for one have never thought of another man in a sexual way..HOWEVER I do not have a problem saying a guy looks good..