is it foolish to not accept global warming as fact?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]Yes

next question

MannyDelgado

[QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"] is reducing the human impact really going to change anything really? as long as there are sentient human beings, we will always be impacting the the climate. it's natural and we should accept things as they happen because trying to control it is a waste imo.LJS9502_basic

next question

Well, there is currently a 90% + consensus that anthropogenic climate change is a thing, and 97% for the climatologists, who study the matter most closely.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MannyDelgado"]Yes

next question

coolbeans90

Well, there is currently a 90% + consensus that anthropogenic climate change is a thing, and 97% for the climatologists, who study the matter most closely.

for instance, in recent news i read that china is buying part of the amazon rain forest. this is a good thing because human development will occur.

eventually all of human civilization SHOULD get the chance to be as developed as the most developed countries. we can't be selfish.

If you are not a scientist you're kind of a douchebag to have an opinion on global warming. Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]If you are not a scientist you're kind of a douchebag to have an opinion on global warming. 4myAmuzumament

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Elaborate. Because last I read the scientific community couldn't agree on that....4myAmuzumament

Well, there is currently a 90% + consensus that anthropogenic climate change is a thing, and 97% for the climatologists, who study the matter most closely.

The only reason people give a flying fvck about global warming is that there are potential (possibly substantial) reductions to the standard of living in the future. People aren't going to be forced to used public transportation only, but incrementally improving things where feasible like efficiency, power sources, etc., are no-brainers.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"] it doesn't make sense to try and "heal" the earth. anything we do is futile. might as well adapt to the changes... plus i want a hummer when i can afford one and i don't want tree huggers hatin on meBlueresident87

There really isn't any way to prove that the Earth is warming only because of humans though. And if one believes in evolution, warming is an entirely natural effect since humans survive by depleting/modifying the environments around them.

If humans weren't present on planet Earth, there would still come a day when Earth could no longer be sustained.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"] it doesn't make sense to try and "heal" the earth. anything we do is futile. might as well adapt to the changes... plus i want a hummer when i can afford one and i don't want tree huggers hatin on meBlueresident87

There really isn't any way to prove that the Earth is warming only because of humans though. And if one believes in evolution, warming is an entirely natural effect since humans survive by depleting/modifying the environments around them.

If humans weren't present on planet Earth, there would still come a day when Earth could no longer be sustained.

The earth is warming precisely because of human behavior.  -Sun_Tzu-

Watch out, we got an atmosphere thermodynamics expert over here

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]If you are not a scientist you're kind of a douchebag to have an opinion on global warming. Ninja-Hippo

the earth's warming / cooling cycles, including effects of the sun, take centuries if not millennia to play out, with significant change taking vastly long times on a human timescale. the fact researchers are seeing RATES of temperature change never before seen over a half a million year time period points to some other factor at play other than natural cycles.

comp_atkins

link plz

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]The earth is warming precisely because of human behavior.  N30F3N1X

Watch out, we got an atmosphere thermodynamics expert over here

lol no, it's a goddamm fact. "humans are affecting the rate at which the earth is warming." what in that statement is not a fact. EVERYTHING affects the RATE at which the earth's climate changes. it's a fact, bro.4myAmuzumament

Scientific studies in favor of man-made global warming.

Scientific studies not in favor of man-made global warming.


Learn the difference between a fact and something you very strongly believe to be true. 

 

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"] lol no, it's a goddamm fact. "humans are affecting the rate at which the earth is warming." what in that statement is not a fact. EVERYTHING affects the RATE at which the earth's climate changes. it's a fact, bro.Ninja-Hippo

Scientific studies in favor of man-made global warming.

Scientific studies not in favor of man-made global warming.


Learn the difference between a fact and something you very strongly believe to be true. 

 

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"] lol no, it's a goddamm fact. "humans are affecting the rate at which the earth is warming." what in that statement is not a fact. EVERYTHING affects the RATE at which the earth's climate changes. it's a fact, bro.4myAmuzumament

Scientific studies in favor of man-made global warming.

Scientific studies not in favor of man-made global warming.


Learn the difference between a fact and something you very strongly believe to be true. 

 

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

Scientific studies in favor of man-made global warming.

Scientific studies not in favor of man-made global warming.


Learn the difference between a fact and something you very strongly believe to be true. 

 

Ninja-Hippo

Watch out, we got a troll over here -Sun_Tzu-

A troll that knows better than you how to hold his tongue before saying stupid things, that's for sure ;)

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

Scientific studies in favor of man-made global warming.

Scientific studies not in favor of man-made global warming.


Learn the difference between a fact and something you very strongly believe to be true. 

 

Ninja-Hippo

... there can't be a middle ground, bro. humans affect the climate of the earth. period. fact. no other option. the scientists you cite are not scientists.

4myAmuzumament

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]the earth's warming / cooling cycles, including effects of the sun, take centuries if not millennia to play out, with significant change taking vastly long times on a human timescale. the fact researchers are seeing RATES of temperature change never before seen over a half a million year time period points to some other factor at play other than natural cycles.

N30F3N1X

link plz

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"]

... there can't be a middle ground, bro. humans affect the climate of the earth. period. fact. no other option. the scientists you cite are not scientists.

Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Watch out, we got a troll over here N30F3N1X

A troll that knows better than you how to hold his tongue before saying stupid things, that's for sure ;)

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"]

... there can't be a middle ground, bro. humans affect the climate of the earth. period. fact. no other option. the scientists you cite are not scientists.

4myAmuzumament

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Even if they work all day erry day at universities and laboratories as motherf****ing SCIENTISTS? It's not a fact. It's a position. Get over it and move on with your life. Ninja-Hippo

What he's trying to illustrate is that it's inevitable that humans are affecting the climate, and the real question is 'by how much'

It's not a matter of seeing the light, it's a matter of you having a really pedantic and pointless point of view. Breathing does not affect the GLOBAL climate. Don't be ridiculous. When scientists speak of climate change, I'm pretty sure they're referring to an actual measurable change rather than a change in the climate in the immediate area of your mouth after you exhale. This is like a debate of whether or not the sun is hot but you can never get around to it because one guy wants to debate whether or not it exists. Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]It's not a matter of seeing the light, it's a matter of you having a really pedantic and pointless point of view. Breathing does not affect the GLOBAL climate. Don't be ridiculous. When scientists speak of climate change, I'm pretty sure they're referring to an actual measurable change rather than a change in the climate in the immediate area of your mouth after you exhale. This is like a debate of whether or not the sun is hot but you can never get around to it because one guy wants to debate whether or not it exists. 4myAmuzumament

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]It's not a matter of seeing the light, it's a matter of you having a really pedantic and pointless point of view. Breathing does not affect the GLOBAL climate. Don't be ridiculous. When scientists speak of climate change, I'm pretty sure they're referring to an actual measurable change rather than a change in the climate in the immediate area of your mouth after you exhale. This is like a debate of whether or not the sun is hot but you can never get around to it because one guy wants to debate whether or not it exists. Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="Blueresident87"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Anything we do is futile? How is that? The earth is warming precisely because of human behavior. It doesn't make any sense to acknowledge the huge negative impact that we're having on the environment and then at the same time say that anything we do to try to mitigate that harm is futile. -Sun_Tzu-

There really isn't any way to prove that the Earth is warming only because of humans though. And if one believes in evolution, warming is an entirely natural effect since humans survive by depleting/modifying the environments around them.

If humans weren't present on planet Earth, there would still come a day when Earth could no longer be sustained.

I agree that humans are the primary reason, but you would have to completely change the entire course of human existence to have even the smallest impact on the planet warming. Humans are doing what they do and what they've done for centuries, even people who claim to be 'so green' and care so much about the environment do things every single day that are harmful to it. It's human nature, that's it. Indifference and complacency, human nature. You wouldn't expect a tiger to stop eating meat because it is harmful to a specific species' population since that's entirely out of character for a tiger. Humans will continue to burn through fossil fuels and will continue to be harmful(at least more so than other species) towards the environment because it's what we do and it's how we've structured our lives. Being aware of warming and taking steps to slow it down are great, but it's damage control. There is no answer that will cause the warming effect to reverse or anything even close.

If you are speaking of the sun as an energy source, that doesn't make sense because it won't be operational indefinitely as it's widely believed that the sun will run out of energy one day. I see no reason to expedite this process, even if we had the means. And the avenues for renewable energy are not as abundant as you seem to think.

YesMannyDelgado

[QUOTE="Blueresident87"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Anything we do is futile? How is that? The earth is warming precisely because of human behavior. It doesn't make any sense to acknowledge the huge negative impact that we're having on the environment and then at the same time say that anything we do to try to mitigate that harm is futile. comp_atkins

There really isn't any way to prove that the Earth is warming only because of humans though. And if one believes in evolution, warming is an entirely natural effect since humans survive by depleting/modifying the environments around them.

If humans weren't present on planet Earth, there would still come a day when Earth could no longer be sustained.

I agree with what you're saying, but mankind's effect on the planet is part of that natural cycle. To think there is some way for humans to exist in any fashion even close to how we do now and for us to be completetly non-harmful to the environment is silly. It's one or the other; either humans go or they'll continue to be harmful. That's about as much of a fact as anything else spouted around in this thread.

Damage control is possible, but not an end-all answer.

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"]the earth's warming / cooling cycles, including effects of the sun, take centuries if not millennia to play out, with significant change taking vastly long times on a human timescale. the fact researchers are seeing RATES of temperature change never before seen over a half a million year time period points to some other factor at play other than natural cycles.

comp_atkins

link plz

 gist of what i said from articles..   though i was off on the time scale.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/03/13/global_warming_new_study_shows_warming_is_faster_than_it_has_been_in_11.html

better source.

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=127133&org=NSF&from=news

quoted from 2nd link:

This research shows that we've experienced almost the same range of temperature change since the beginning of the industrial revolution," says Major, "as over the previous 11,000 years of Earth history--but this change happened a lot more quickly."

"The Earth's climate is complex and responds to multiple forcings, including carbon dioxide and solar insolation," Marcott says.

"Both changed very slowly over the past 11,000 years. But in the last 100 years, the increase in carbon dioxide through increased emissions from human activities has been significant.

"It's the only variable that can best explain the rapid increase in global temperatures.

Marcott says that one of the natural factors affecting global temperatures during the last 11,300 years is a gradual change in the distribution of solar insolation linked with Earth's position relative to the sun.

"During the warmest period of the Holocene, the Earth was positioned such that Northern Hemisphere summers warmed more," Marcott says.

"As the Earth's orientation changed, Northern Hemisphere summers became cooler, and we should now be near the bottom of this long-term cooling trend--but obviously, we're not."

^^ this is significant.   the orbital variations of the planet should make the northern hemisphere cooler.. as it had been trending for thousands of years, but then an abrupt stop.

strikingly:

What that history shows, the researchers say, is that during the last 5,000 years, the Earth on average cooled about 1.3 degrees Fahrenheit--until the last 100 years, when it warmed about 1.3 degrees F.

 so globally we've been in a cooling trend over the past 5000 years where the planet cooled on avg. ~1.3F   then in the last century aloneit suddnly and sharply reversed trends to warm in 1 century that amount which it took 50 previously to cool.

full study if interested

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/339/6124/1198.full

No amount of research can account for what we don't know, and we don't know so much about our planet. There is absolutely no way to determine what this planet would look like without mankind's existence, and there never will be.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"] you lost bro. i win. insults won't change the facts. ;)4myAmuzumament

When two people engage in a debate, a 3rd party determines the winner. Not a member of the debate, so no you didn't win and you can't declare yourself a winner...if anything you both lose.

There is no way to win this debate, and certainly not just because 'you said so.'

[QUOTE="4myAmuzumament"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] I'm not insulting you, don't be over-sensitive now. I can see your point, I just think it's petty and pedantic and that's hardly what makes a 'winner' in life. Bro. Blueresident87

When two people engage in a debate, a 3rd party determines the winner. Not a member of the debate, so no you didn't win and you can't declare yourself a winner...if anything you both lose.

There is no way to win this debate, and certainly not just because 'you said so.'

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Blueresident87"]

There really isn't any way to prove that the Earth is warming only because of humans though. And if one believes in evolution, warming is an entirely natural effect since humans survive by depleting/modifying the environments around them.

If humans weren't present on planet Earth, there would still come a day when Earth could no longer be sustained.

Blueresident87

I agree that humans are the primary reason, but you would have to completely change the entire course of human existence to have even the smallest impact on the planet warming. Humans are doing what they do and what they've done for centuries, even people who claim to be 'so green' and care so much about the environment do things every single day that are harmful to it. It's human nature, that's it. Indifference and complacency, human nature. You wouldn't expect a tiger to stop eating meat because it is harmful to a specific species' population since that's entirely out of character for a tiger. Humans will continue to burn through fossil fuels and will continue to be harmful(at least more so than other species) towards the environment because it's what we do and it's how we've structured our lives. Being aware of warming and taking steps to slow it down are great, but it's damage control. There is no answer that will cause the warming effect to reverse or anything even close.

If you are speaking of the sun as an energy source, that doesn't make sense because it won't be operational indefinitely as it's widely believed that the sun will run out of energy one day. I see no reason to expedite this process, even if we had the means. And the avenues for renewable energy are not as abundant as you seem to think.