Is it normal that I believe in God, but I am extremely annoyed with Christians?

Don't worry my branch of Christianity (Catholicism) is attacked by almost all 33,000 Protestant denominations I've learned to live with it. ferrari2001

[QUOTE="D_Battery"]

So where is the line drawn, are Eastern Orthodox members brothers? What about Non-Chalcedonians and Nestorians?

mindstorm

Because this is such a huge topic, you can watch a sermon on this if you like here. I recommend it. :D

The way I understand this though, is that anything that came after the protestant reformation is un-Christian in your eyes but anything before it is. There are some striking parallels between this and how the Ahmaddiyyas and Baha'is are seen in the Muslim world. Look at Iran for example, the Zoroastrians, Jews and Christians are seen as quaint but outdated predecessors, but the Baha'is are new and therefore intolerable. Likewise, had the Mormons come before they might have similarly been granted the same dignity.

There is also a great irony here, namely in the intolerance of many Protestants towards the Mormon faith which broke away as they did back in the day. How unfathomable, that someone might protest Protestantism!

yeah over zealous religious nuts annoy me.

A little on the long side, but I'll save it for later The way I understand this though, is that anything that came after the protestant reformation is un-Christian in your eyes but anything before it is. There are some striking parallels between this and how the Ahmaddiyyas and Baha'is are seen in the Muslim world. Look at Iran for example, the Zoroastrians, Jews and Christians are seen as quaint but outdated predecessors, but the Baha'is are new and therefore intolerable. Likewise, had the Mormons come before they might have similarly been granted the same dignity. There is also a great irony here, namely in the intolerance of many Protestants towards the Mormon faith which broke away as they did back in the day. How unfathomable, that someone might protest Protestantism!D_Battery

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Don't worry my branch of Christianity (Catholicism) is attacked by almost all 33,000 Protestant denominations I've learned to live with it. cowboymonkey21

Yea, I don't really get why we do. I mean, we take way more crap from protestants for no apparent reason than we ever did from the rest of the world for the priests who molested children. The only thing I can think of is that they have this idea that we "worship" Mary and the saints, which is completely false, and it requires a lot of ignorance on their part to even come to that conclusion. The only the other thing might be that we believe the bread and wine become the body and blood, rather than just being a representation of them, which also does not warrant the anger many of them have towards us at all. We just kind of go to mass and practice what we believe, minding our own business, and they rip on us for it. Oh well.

[QUOTE="drj077"]Being harsh is never the sameas demonstrating love. Scripture tells us that God is love and I refuse to believe that God is harsh, as well. Being "harsh" is an invented human trait. To say that God is capable of being "harsh" is to say that God is capable of being as flawed as the inventions of hisflawed creations.

mindstorm

I take it you've never read Matthew 23... Here are some of Jesus' own words to the Pharisees. Keep in mind, Jesus only spoke like this to the ultra religious people, not the "sheep in need of a shepherd." (In other words, it would be an extremely rare occasion that I would speak to an atheist/agnostic/new Christian like this)

Verses 27-33 - Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers! "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

And btw, having hard words is not wrong especially if they are true and trying to correct someone. Often times it is hard words that makes someone turn away from an unrighteous path. In America we seem to have forgotten about this...

So, you believe that since God reserves the right to condemn others that the same right belongs to you, as well? There is a difference between the elegance of a diety and foolish interpretation of that same elegance by yourself.

Sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, what you condemn really has no worth whatsoever.

[QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"]

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Don't worry my branch of Christianity (Catholicism) is attacked by almost all 33,000 Protestant denominations I've learned to live with it. its_me_

Yea, I don't really get why we do. I mean, we take way more crap from protestants for no apparent reason than we ever did from the rest of the world for the priests who molested children. The only thing I can think of is that they have this idea that we "worship" Mary and the saints, which is completely false, and it requires a lot of ignorance on their part to even come to that conclusion. The only the other thing might that we believe the bread and wine become the body and blood, rather than just being a representation of them, which also does not warrant the anger many of them have towards us at all. We just kind of go to mass and practice what we believe, minding our own business, and they rip on us for it. Oh well.

[QUOTE="its_me_"]

[QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"]Yeah, Catholics take a lot of crap.:P

ferrari2001

Yea, I don't really get why we do. I mean, we take way more crap from protestants for no apparent reason than we ever did from the rest of the world for the priests who molested children. The only thing I can think of is that they have this idea that we "worship" Mary and the saints, which is completely false, and it requires a lot of ignorance on their part to even come to that conclusion. The only the other thing might that we believe the bread and wine become the body and blood, rather than just being a representation of them, which also does not warrant the anger many of them have towards us at all. We just kind of go to mass and practice what we believe, minding our own business, and they rip on us for it. Oh well.

Yea, but my point was that we don't really get the molestation accusations from protestants. It's over nitpicky rituals instead...so nitpicky that they feel the need to break off, but still acknowledge us as Christians (as if it's up to them to decide).

I just don't understand why they even put forward the effort to ridicule us. We don't ridicule them. It seems like a waste of time and energy.

[QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"]

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Don't worry my branch of Christianity (Catholicism) is attacked by almost all 33,000 Protestant denominations I've learned to live with it. its_me_

Yea, I don't really get why we do. I mean, we take way more crap from protestants for no apparent reason than we ever did from the rest of the world for the priests who molested children. The only thing I can think of is that they have this idea that we "worship" Mary and the saints, which is completely false, and it requires a lot of ignorance on their part to even come to that conclusion. The only the other thing might be that we believe the bread and wine become the body and blood, rather than just being a representation of them, which also does not warrant the anger many of them have towards us at all. We just kind of go to mass and practice what we believe, minding our own business, and they rip on us for it. Oh well.

So, you believe that since God reserves the right to condemn others that the same right belongs to you, as well? There is a difference between the elegance of a diety and foolish interpretation of that same elegance by yourself.

Sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, what you condemn really has no worth whatsoever.

drj077

Paul also said things like this and warned that there was going to be those who spread lies about the faith when he said in 2 Peter 2:1-4, "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."

Many other times in Scripture the same idea is being taught. Would it be wrong of me to show who seems to be heretical and who is not? That is what a shepherd is supposed to do after all, keep the wolves away from the sheep. And btw, pastor literally means shepherd. :P :wink:

[QUOTE="its_me_"]

[QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"]Yeah, Catholics take a lot of crap.:P

cowboymonkey21

Yea, I don't really get why we do. I mean, we take way more crap from protestants for no apparent reason than we ever did from the rest of the world for the priests who molested children. The only thing I can think of is that they have this idea that we "worship" Mary and the saints, which is completely false, and it requires a lot of ignorance on their part to even come to that conclusion. The only the other thing might be that we believe the bread and wine become the body and blood, rather than just being a representation of them, which also does not warrant the anger many of them have towards us at all. We just kind of go to mass and practice what we believe, minding our own business, and they rip on us for it. Oh well.

READ my post. I said we DON'T get much molestation criticism from protestants. It's over stupid things instead. See my reply on the previous page.

Well the concept of a singular GOD, was not created by christians... as we all know the first monotheist religion to gain popular support was in fact Judaism.. which later lead to the development of Christianity =.

SO.. being annoyed with Christians is entirely acceptable as they never actually came up with the concept of monotheism. Now if you said JEW's annoyed you.. then I might think something is wrong with you.

But on the other hand.. does one really need a specific religion to say they believe in GOD. Not really. It's just usuasly the religions that will tell you that you're god is the wrong one.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If I was a firm believer of God, I would probably be annoyed with most Christians too.

[QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"]

[QUOTE="its_me_"]

Yea, I don't really get why we do. I mean, we take way more crap from protestants for no apparent reason than we ever did from the rest of the world for the priests who molested children. The only thing I can think of is that they have this idea that we "worship" Mary and the saints, which is completely false, and it requires a lot of ignorance on their part to even come to that conclusion. The only the other thing might be that we believe the bread and wine become the body and blood, rather than just being a representation of them, which also does not warrant the anger many of them have towards us at all. We just kind of go to mass and practice what we believe, minding our own business, and they rip on us for it. Oh well.

its_me_

READ my post. I said we DON'T get much molestation criticism from protestants. It's over stupid things instead. See my reply on the previous page.

Well the concept of a singular GOD, was not created by christians... as we all know the first monotheist religion to gain popular support was in fact Judaism.. which is in fact also apart of Christianity, but most Christians choose to ignore that part.

SO.. being annoyed with Christians is entirely acceptable as they never actually came up with the concept of monotheism.

EMOEVOLUTION

I do not believe I have the same authority as God unless I use the Scriptures to speak in my stead (as, you know, it's God's Word :P ).

Paul also said things like this and warned that there was going to be those who spread lies about the faith when he said in 2 Peter 2:1-4, "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."

Many other times in Scripture the same idea is being taught. Would it be wrong of me to show who seems to be heretical and who is not? That is what a shepherd is supposed to do after all, keep the wolves away from the sheep. And btw, pastor literally means shepherd. :P :wink:

mindstorm

Personally, the biggest problem I tend to have with those who use verses like that to shake their finger at others is that, more often than not, the person saying so is completely unwilling to even entertain the possibility that it is he to whom the verse applies, not to the one whom he is confronting. I am always mindful of Matthew 7:1-5 when confronting someone on what I perceive as an error, lest I become boastful of my own perceived piety. I believe that a quote from Abraham Lincoln is appropriate here:

"Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side."

Not saying that you don't do that. But that is how it sometimes comes across.

[QUOTE="drj077"]So, you believe that since God reserves the right to condemn others that the same right belongs to you, as well? There is a difference between the elegance of a diety and foolish interpretation of that same elegance by yourself.

Sorry, but in the grand scheme of things, what you condemn really has no worth whatsoever.

mindstorm

Paul also said things like this and warned that there was going to be those who spread lies about the faith when he said in 2 Peter 2:1-4, "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."

Many other times in Scripture the same idea is being taught. Would it be wrong of me to show who seems to be heretical and who is not? That is what a shepherd is supposed to do after all, keep the wolves away from the sheep. And btw, pastor literally means shepherd. :P :wink:

What do you mean 'unless'? You do NOT have the authority of God under ANY circumstances. THAT is a heretical thing to say. God's word is far from literal, and you are far from any kind of prophet. It's not your place to interpret the Bible for everyone else. It's your place to worship the Trinity in the manner you see fit and explain it (not condemn others) when the occasion arises, rather than pointing out the "speck in your brother's eye." The foundation for your arguments is the assumption that you have the word of God figured out. You don't anymore than I do.

Personally, the biggest problem I tend to have with those who use verses like that to shake their finger at others is that, more often than not, the person saying so is completely unwilling to even entertain the possibility that it is he to whom the verse applies, not to the one whom he is confronting. I am always mindful of Matthew 7:1-5 when confronting someone on what I perceive as an error, lest I become boastful of my own perceived piety.

Not saying that you don't do that. But that is how it sometimes comes across.

GabuEx

What do you mean 'unless'? You do NOT have the authority of God under ANY circumstances. THAT is a heretical thing to say. God's word is far from literal, and you are far from any kind of prophet. It's not your place to interpret the Bible. It's your place to worship the Trinity in the manner you see fit and explain it (not condemn others) when the occasion arises, rather than pointing out the "speck in your brother's eye." The foundation for your arguments is the assumption that you have the word of God figured out. You don't anymore than I do.

its_me_

Many other times in Scripture the same idea is being taught. Would it be wrong of me to show who seems to be heretical and who is not? That is what a shepherd is supposed to do after all, keep the wolves away from the sheep. And btw, pastor literally means shepherd. :P :wink:

mindstorm

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]Personally, the biggest problem I tend to have with those who use verses like that to shake their finger at others is that, more often than not, the person saying so is completely unwilling to even entertain the possibility that it is he to whom the verse applies, not to the one whom he is confronting. I am always mindful of Matthew 7:1-5 when confronting someone on what I perceive as an error, lest I become boastful of my own perceived piety.

Not saying that you don't do that. But that is how it sometimes comes across.

mindstorm

You could not agree more that you sometimes come across as seemingly unwilling to accept that you could be the one in error? :P

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Many other times in Scripture the same idea is being taught. Would it be wrong of me to show who seems to be heretical and who is not? That is what a shepherd is supposed to do after all, keep the wolves away from the sheep. And btw, pastor literally means shepherd. :P :wink:

LJS9502_basic

You could not agree more that you sometimes come across as seemingly unwilling to accept that you could be the one in error? :P

GabuEx

har har har, you'd think that by now I'd be more specific with what I say around you. :P

mindstorm

Well I wasonlyhalf-joking; I actually honestly didn't know whether you actually fully agreeing or whether you were just speaking generally.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

har har har, you'd think that by now I'd be more specific with what I say around you. :P

GabuEx

Well I was just half-joking; I honestly didn'tknow whether you actually agreeing or whether you were just speaking generally.