Is it possible to troll god? I believe so, question for true believes

So the bible says you have to accept jesus as savior and you get into heaven. then whose to say someone who is complete psycho murderer who kills a bunch of people and molest children then burning there bodies and then sets churchs on fires repents doesn't get into heaven? if they know they are going to be electrocuted, two days before hand(hell an hour before) they could say "jesus I believe in you all along!" and bam he gets into heaven and was like "GOT YOU!" and does the same thing there?

Where as someone who lives a good life helping others and volunteering to help those poor helpless needy children goes to hell because they were never inspired to believe in god? They never once got reached out to or had a religious expierence. so its not their own fault they go to hell, but since these are the rules person A goes to heaven while person B goes to hell.

and thats why I am not a christian.

(forgot to ask a question) so what do you think about all this?

I think accepting jesus into your heart as your personal lord and saviour is a process that somehow goes deeper than merely saying it, atleast in the eyes of god as you stand at the pearly gates? BiancaDK

doesn't really answer the unjust nature of heaven and hell. does the person B not truely live the way the lord wants him to? while person a beomes a true believer when he realizes his fate is upon him? who is to say person a doesn't truely believe in it, its such a subjective thing. how can you put a percentage on how much you truely believe something? what are the rates and percentages of belief that are required to get into heaven? 99%? 100%? what about 97.99% belief? do they not get in?

Yes.

/copypasta

So then a repentant person is capable of living an unrepentant lifestyle? This does not compute.mindstorm

Exactly.

Neither would go to heaven. There's no way to 'fool' God.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]So then a repentant person is capable of living an unrepentant lifestyle? This does not compute.Dtrav

Exactly.

Neither would go to heaven. There's no way to 'fool' God.

so basically god is a liar you are saying. because the first person accepted jesus as savior and still goes to hell? so what is it, he is unjust, or a liar?

[QUOTE="Dtrav"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]So then a repentant person is capable of living an unrepentant lifestyle? This does not compute.hahaokaay

Exactly.

Neither would go to heaven. There's no way to 'fool' God.

so basically god is a liar you are saying. because the first person accepted jesus as savior and still goes to hell? so what is it, he is unjust, or a liar?

[QUOTE="Dtrav"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]So then a repentant person is capable of living an unrepentant lifestyle? This does not compute.hahaokaay

Exactly.

Neither would go to heaven. There's no way to 'fool' God.

so basically god is a liar you are saying. because the first person accepted jesus as savior and still goes to hell? so what is it, he is unjust, or a liar?

By all means, no. In your post the man fooled God, which I clearly stated couldn't happen.

God knows if your truly remorseful for your actions. One cannot just claim to be a believer when in his / her heart it's not completely true. I do not think that you comprehend fully the way God will judge our sins. I don't believe anybody fully understands how God will judge us, but I have faith that He will know the difference of honesty in one's heart compared to a person trying to repent just to get out of judgement for his / her actions on Earth. Finally, do not base your faith in a religion on the actions of others, and the way that you believe that an all knowing God will judge. If there truly is a God he will know you for what you are.

God knows if your truly remorseful for your actions. One cannot just claim to be a believer when in his / her heart it's not completely true. I do not think that you comprehend fully the way God will judge our sins. I don't believe anybody fully understands how God will judge us, but I have faith that He will know the difference of honesty in one's heart compared to a person trying to repent just to get out of judgement for his / her actions on Earth. Finally, do not base your faith in a religion on the actions of others, and the way that you believe that an all knowing God will judge. If there truly is a God he will know you for what you are.

zmbi_gmr

if he knows me for who I am, then why would I need to accept jesus? believing in something that can be proven untrue sends me to hell?(not that I believe in hell, just for arguments sake). how is an omnipotent being able to justify sending people to the worst place in the universe....... yet still be a good omnipotent being at the same time? his omnipotence actually is what makes it hard to believe, he can't be good.........and bad at the same time. they contradict each other. the bible is the worst book ever written, it was written by men who felt compelled to make people feel moral while supporting an organization which has caused more deaths than the holocaust. christianity is the epitome of irony.

[QUOTE="BiancaDK"]I think accepting jesus into your heart as your personal lord and saviour is a process that somehow goes deeper than merely saying it, atleast in the eyes of god as you stand at the pearly gates? hahaokaay

doesn't really answer the unjust nature of heaven and hell. does the person B not truely live the way the lord wants him to? while person a beomes a true believer when he realizes his fate is upon him? who is to say person a doesn't truely believe in it, its such a subjective thing. how can you put a percentage on how much you truely believe something? what are the rates and percentages of belief that are required to get into heaven? 99%? 100%? what about 97.99% belief? do they not get in?

So the bible says you have to accept jesus as savior and you get into heaven. then whose to say someone who is complete psycho murderer who kills a bunch of people and molest children then burning there bodies and then sets churchs on fires repents doesn't get into heaven? if they know they are going to be electrocuted, two days before hand(hell an hour before) they could say "jesus I believe in you all along!" and bam he gets into heaven and was like "GOT YOU!" and does the same thing there?

Where as someone who lives a good life helping others and volunteering to help those poor helpless needy children goes to hell because they were never inspired to believe in god? They never once got reached out to or had a religious expierence. so its not their own fault they go to hell, but since these are the rules person A goes to heaven while person B goes to hell.

and thats why I am not a christian.

(forgot to ask a question) so what do you think about all this?

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

[QUOTE="BiancaDK"]I think accepting jesus into your heart as your personal lord and saviour is a process that somehow goes deeper than merely saying it, atleast in the eyes of god as you stand at the pearly gates? BiancaDK

doesn't really answer the unjust nature of heaven and hell. does the person B not truely live the way the lord wants him to? while person a beomes a true believer when he realizes his fate is upon him? who is to say person a doesn't truely believe in it, its such a subjective thing. how can you put a percentage on how much you truely believe something? what are the rates and percentages of belief that are required to get into heaven? 99%? 100%? what about 97.99% belief? do they not get in?

so what about people from different types of christianity. some believe certain things about the bible, but doubt other things. some of them worship jesus, others worship god. so all those christians chose the wrong type and go to hell basically? to make the bible even worse, some people believe that only 144,000 people make it into heaven before its closed. I forgot the origins of that number, but some people believe it. so wtf, are we supposed to believe in the bible while only having a .00000000000000000000000001% chance of getting in? f that

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

So the bible says you have to accept jesus as savior and you get into heaven. then whose to say someone who is complete psycho murderer who kills a bunch of people and molest children then burning there bodies and then sets churchs on fires repents doesn't get into heaven? if they know they are going to be electrocuted, two days before hand(hell an hour before) they could say "jesus I believe in you all along!" and bam he gets into heaven and was like "GOT YOU!" and does the same thing there?

Where as someone who lives a good life helping others and volunteering to help those poor helpless needy children goes to hell because they were never inspired to believe in god? They never once got reached out to or had a religious expierence. so its not their own fault they go to hell, but since these are the rules person A goes to heaven while person B goes to hell.

and thats why I am not a christian.

(forgot to ask a question) so what do you think about all this?

bsman00

actually, I do believe the bible says the only way tomy fatheris through me(refferring to jesus himself). pretty hard to refute that.

so what about people from different types of christianity. some believe certain things about the bible, but doubt other things. some of them worship jesus, others worship god. so all those christians chose the wrong type and go to hell basically? to make the bible even worse, some people believe that only 144,000 people make it into heaven before its closed. I forgot the origins of that number, but some people believe it. so wtf, are we supposed to believe in the bible while only having a .00000000000000000000000001% chance of getting in? f that

hahaokaay

Here's the lovely thing about belief:

You can believe in what you will, even if the world disagrees with your belief. Belief is your own. :)

[QUOTE="bsman00"][QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

So the bible says you have to accept jesus as savior and you get into heaven. then whose to say someone who is complete psycho murderer who kills a bunch of people and molest children then burning there bodies and then sets churchs on fires repents doesn't get into heaven? if they know they are going to be electrocuted, two days before hand(hell an hour before) they could say "jesus I believe in you all along!" and bam he gets into heaven and was like "GOT YOU!" and does the same thing there?

Where as someone who lives a good life helping others and volunteering to help those poor helpless needy children goes to hell because they were never inspired to believe in god? They never once got reached out to or had a religious expierence. so its not their own fault they go to hell, but since these are the rules person A goes to heaven while person B goes to hell.

and thats why I am not a christian.

(forgot to ask a question) so what do you think about all this?

actually, I do believe the bible says the only way tomy fatheris through me(refferring to jesus himself). pretty hard to refute that.

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

so what about people from different types of christianity. some believe certain things about the bible, but doubt other things. some of them worship jesus, others worship god. so all those christians chose the wrong type and go to hell basically? to make the bible even worse, some people believe that only 144,000 people make it into heaven before its closed. I forgot the origins of that number, but some people believe it. so wtf, are we supposed to believe in the bible while only having a .00000000000000000000000001% chance of getting in? f that

BiancaDK

Here's the lovely thing about belief:

You can believe in what you will, even if the world disagrees with your belief. Belief is your own. :)

well then whose belief is right? my argument is against christianity as a whole. the bible contradicts its own message. believe in what you want, but according to the bible your going to hell for that! I dont see how anyone can follow this ancient doctrine thats full of loopholes and misguided directions.

I think accepting jesus into your heart as your personal lord and saviour is a process that somehow goes deeper than merely saying it, atleast in the eyes of god as you stand at the pearly gates? BiancaDK

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

[QUOTE="bsman00"] In bible it does not say you have to accept jesus as your savior to get in to heaven, it can be interpted that way... Jesus was just showing us the way... and im not a christian. bsman00

actually, I do believe the bible says the only way tomy fatheris through me(refferring to jesus himself). pretty hard to refute that.

its funny, parts of the bible are to be taken literally(when they are good). but when the bible mentions bad stuff(of course its not literal). the bible provides you no way to get into heaven. if you can "be" like jesus, then you don't need to believe in him do you? or is that "too" subjective? if you put 5 different christians in a room and ask them how to get to heaven, you will get 7 answers. so the truth is we are all f*****

[QUOTE="bsman00"][QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

actually, I do believe the bible says the only way tomy fatheris through me(refferring to jesus himself). pretty hard to refute that.

hahaokaay

its funny, parts of the bible are to be taken literally(when they are good). but when the bible mentions bad stuff(of course its not literal). the bible provides you no way to get into heaven. if you can "be" like jesus, then you don't need to believe in him do you? or is that "too" subjective? if you put 5 different christians in a room and ask them how to get to heaven, you will get 7 answers. so the truth is we are all f*****

Ask him about the time he created the platypus.Harshvardhan666

is this one of those magical questions christians use to prove god exist?

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

God knows if your truly remorseful for your actions. One cannot just claim to be a believer when in his / her heart it's not completely true. I do not think that you comprehend fully the way God will judge our sins. I don't believe anybody fully understands how God will judge us, but I have faith that He will know the difference of honesty in one's heart compared to a person trying to repent just to get out of judgement for his / her actions on Earth. Finally, do not base your faith in a religion on the actions of others, and the way that you believe that an all knowing God will judge. If there truly is a God he will know you for what you are.

hahaokaay

if he knows me for who I am, then why would I need to accept jesus? believing in something that can be proven untrue sends me to hell?(not that I believe in hell, just for arguments sake). how is an omnipotent being able to justify sending people to the worst place in the universe....... yet still be a good omnipotent being at the same time? his omnipotence actually is what makes it hard to believe, he can't be good.........and bad at the same time. they contradict each other. the bible is the worst book ever written, it was written by men who felt compelled to make people feel moral while supporting an organization which has caused more deaths than the holocaust. christianity is the epitome of irony.

I am not trying to convert. I am just arguing my point of view.

You need to accept Jesus so that He can cleanse you of your sins. God is pure, and one cannot be one with Him without being cleansed. So you must go through Jesus to being cleansed of your sins. God is more than just a loving God. He must pass judgement on your sins if they are not forgiven. That goes back to you not being able to be one with God while your 'unclean' with sin. Why this is I am not sure, but it does tend to make sense. You can put down Chritianity all you want. You can claim that it is the epitome of irony, but that does not make it true. You should not pass your own judgement on a religion through the acts of men and women who carry the cross on Earth. No one is perfect with the exception of Christ ( if you believe in Christianity). I don't know what to tell you except that it sounds like you are fighting with yourself inside over this ideal, and no one, but yourself, will be able to change your perception of Christianity. Though many horrible things have been done by men carrying the cross, that's not to say that many wonderful things have also been done by men carrying the cross. If Satan truly wanted to ruin men and women on Earth in the sake of fighting against God then wouldn't it make sense that Satan would find His way into the church in order to ruin Christianity at it's foundation? The Church and the Bible are two of the main foundations for Christianity on Earth, and that is why Satan would need to destroy the reputation of both to help sway people from accepting them as truth. I have read the Bible. Have you? I'm not saying that I am better than you because I have read it, but at least I gave it a chance before passing judgement on it.

In bible it does not say you have to accept jesus as your savior to get in to heaven, it can be interpted that way... Jesus was just showing us the way... and im not a christian.bsman00

well then whose belief is right? my argument is against christianity as a whole. the bible contradicts its own message. believe in what you want, but according to the bible your going to hell for that! I dont see how anyone can follow this ancient doctrine thats full of loopholes and misguided directions.

hahaokaay

Depends on the setting really.

Belief can in a purely spiritual setting be right, in and of itself.

However, in a purely logical setting, (ii) belief cannot be right in and of itself, without (i) true premise and (iii) justification.

(i) requires knowledge, the question of knowledge, or rather, what knowledge is, is in this theological setting, a debated one.

What a sound argument consists of, is ultimately your own search. :)

What? OK then? You do realize the difference with Christianity and other religions is that no matter how many good works you do you will still ultimately fall short of the glory of God? One of the main aspects of being a born again Christian is to be more like Christ...

BTW if you want to talk about the bible, it's actually 95.5% pure text.

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

well then whose belief is right? my argument is against christianity as a whole. the bible contradicts its own message. believe in what you want, but according to the bible your going to hell for that! I dont see how anyone can follow this ancient doctrine thats full of loopholes and misguided directions.

BiancaDK

Depends on the setting really.

Belief can in a purely spiritual setting be right, in and of itself.

However, in a purely logical setting, (ii) belief cannot be right in and of itself, without (i) true premise and (iii) justification.

(ii) requires knowledge, the question of knowledge, or rather, what knowledge is, is in this theological setting, a debated one.

What a sound argument consists of, is ultimately your own search. :)

[QUOTE="Harshvardhan666"]Ask him about the time he created the platypus.hahaokaay

is this one of those magical questions christians use to prove god exist?

What? OK then? You do realize the difference with Christianity and other religions is that no matter how many good works you do you will still ultimately fall short of the glory of God? One of the main aspects of being a born again Christian is to be more like Christ...

BTW if you want to talk about the bible, it's actually 95.5% pure text.

Cokelore

[QUOTE="BiancaDK"][QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

doesn't really answer the unjust nature of heaven and hell. does the person B not truely live the way the lord wants him to? while person a beomes a true believer when he realizes his fate is upon him? who is to say person a doesn't truely believe in it, its such a subjective thing. how can you put a percentage on how much you truely believe something? what are the rates and percentages of belief that are required to get into heaven? 99%? 100%? what about 97.99% belief? do they not get in?

hahaokaay

so what about people from different types of christianity. some believe certain things about the bible, but doubt other things. some of them worship jesus, others worship god. so all those christians chose the wrong type and go to hell basically? to make the bible even worse, some people believe that only 144,000 people make it into heaven before its closed. I forgot the origins of that number, but some people believe it. so wtf, are we supposed to believe in the bible while only having a .00000000000000000000000001% chance of getting in? f that

First of all, those numbers are COMPLETELY wrong.

Being a Christian does mean thinking that where Christianity differs from other religions, Christianity is right and they are wrong. However, if you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all other religions are completely wrong. In fact, in most of the major religions there is some hint of truth. Think of it like a multiple choice math problem. There is only one right answer, and all the other answers are wrong. If you choose the wrong one you go to hell. However, in Christianity, it is not simply just a matter of choosing. It's devoting your character, your faith, your trust, and your hope in a God you cannot see. Now for most Christians and even people who are thinking about converting to being a Christian, this can get a bit scary. There is no scientific evidence that God exists and that he created the world, but that really isn't that surprising considering the scientific evidence, needs experiments, and we can't recreate the world. It's only through faith that we keep on going, and even that gets shaken quite a bit. Being a Christian is by all means not an easy life, it's an ongoing struggle, and a battle, to hold on to what we believe.

Hope I answered your questions a little bit. I might have gone off topic a little bit there, but I was just trying to add in some things about what it means to be a Christian.

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

God knows if your truly remorseful for your actions. One cannot just claim to be a believer when in his / her heart it's not completely true. I do not think that you comprehend fully the way God will judge our sins. I don't believe anybody fully understands how God will judge us, but I have faith that He will know the difference of honesty in one's heart compared to a person trying to repent just to get out of judgement for his / her actions on Earth. Finally, do not base your faith in a religion on the actions of others, and the way that you believe that an all knowing God will judge. If there truly is a God he will know you for what you are.

zmbi_gmr

if he knows me for who I am, then why would I need to accept jesus? believing in something that can be proven untrue sends me to hell?(not that I believe in hell, just for arguments sake). how is an omnipotent being able to justify sending people to the worst place in the universe....... yet still be a good omnipotent being at the same time? his omnipotence actually is what makes it hard to believe, he can't be good.........and bad at the same time. they contradict each other. the bible is the worst book ever written, it was written by men who felt compelled to make people feel moral while supporting an organization which has caused more deaths than the holocaust. christianity is the epitome of irony.

I am not trying to convert. I am just arguing my point of view.

You need to accept Jesus so that He can cleanse you of your sins. God is pure, and one cannot be one with Him without being cleansed. So you must go through Jesus to being cleansed of your sins. God is more than just a loving God. He must pass judgement on your sins if they are not forgiven. That goes back to you not being able to be one with God while your 'unclean' with sin. Why this is I am not sure, but it does tend to make sense. You can put down Chritianity all you want. You can claim that it is the epitome of irony, but that does not make it true. You should not pass your own judgement on a religion through the acts of men and women who carry the cross on Earth. No one is perfect with the exception of Christ ( if you believe in Christianity). I don't know what to tell you except that it sounds like you are fighting with yourself inside over this ideal, and no one, but yourself, will be able to change your perception of Christianity. Though many horrible things have been done by men carrying the cross, that's not to say that many wonderful things have also been done by men carrying the cross. If Satan truly wanted to ruin men and women on Earth in the sake of fighting against God then wouldn't it make sense that Satan would find His way into the church in order to ruin Christianity at it's foundation? The Church and the Bible are two of the main foundations for Christianity on Earth, and that is why Satan would need to destroy the reputation of both to help sway people from accepting them as truth. I have read the Bible. Have you? I'm not saying that I am better than you because I have read it, but at least I gave it a chance before passing judgement on it.

Interesting question! Yes I have read the bible, as well as the works of C.S. Lewis. I have also studied many religions as well as read many books on the topic. What were we talking about again? Oh right, the bible is full of contradictions. And their is no logical way to get into heaven, because you can't ever meet gods standards. This goes back to my question which no one answered, how much faith does it take to get into heaven? Whose to say the person acting good but doesnt read the bible goes to hell, while the person who murders gets into heaven. What percentage of belief do these people have?

Ah but then we have to define knowledge.....LJS9502_basic

Knowledge to me is something you believe in that is true and properly justified, properly as in; to the rationally sensible extent that is in accordance with that is posited. All three factors needs to be in place. Or knowledge (bad knowledge? Nothing really applicable conveyed) can just be a tautological argument since it's beyond any rebuttal. That's my simplistic grasp on knowledge, it's been defined differently by other people, but this is what I go by in a fallible, dynamic, ever-changing world. :P

Please dont ask me what is rationally sensible, or who decides to what extent a proper accordance really is, or we will be here all night.

I've come to believe that God isn't really concerned with how we believe in him, only that we have faith in something. If you believe the Spaghetti Monster created the Universe, and live your life praying to him and trying to love and help others find their place, I don't believe God will cast you into Hell. Hell, I'm pretty sure there is not even such a place. Creating a place of eternal damnation doesn't really follow the logic of a Supreme Being that is all loving and all forgiving.

[QUOTE="Cokelore"]

What? OK then? You do realize the difference with Christianity and other religions is that no matter how many good works you do you will still ultimately fall short of the glory of God? One of the main aspects of being a born again Christian is to be more like Christ...

BTW if you want to talk about the bible, it's actually 95.5% pure text.

LJS9502_basic

I assume being a born again Christian is accepting Yeshua as lamb of god who died for you personally allowing a relationship to be bridged with God himself? Through that find the true route to salvation that is not of good works or "scales" (no offense)?

Or did you mean I needed a hypen? :?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Ah but then we have to define knowledge.....BiancaDK

Knowledge to me is something you believe in that is true and properly justified, properly as in; to the rationally sensible extent that is in accordance with that is posited. All three factors needs to be in place. Or knowledge (bad knowledge? Nothing really applicable conveyed) can just be a tautological argument since it's beyond any rebuttal. That's my simplistic grasp on knowledge, it's been defined differently by other people, but this is what I go by in a fallible, dynamic, ever-changing world. :P

Please dont ask me what is rationally sensible, or who decides to what extent a proper accordance really is, or we will be here all night.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Cokelore"]

What? OK then? You do realize the difference with Christianity and other religions is that no matter how many good works you do you will still ultimately fall short of the glory of God? One of the main aspects of being a born again Christian is to be more like Christ...

BTW if you want to talk about the bible, it's actually 95.5% pure text.

Cokelore

I assume being a born again Christian is accepting Yeshua as lamb of god who died for you personally allowing a relationship to be bridged with God himself? Through that find the true route to salvation that is not of good works or "scales" (no offense)?

Or did you mean I needed a hypen? :?

[QUOTE="BiancaDK"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Ah but then we have to define knowledge.....LJS9502_basic

Knowledge to me is something you believe in that is true and properly justified, properly as in; to the rationally sensible extent that is in accordance with that is posited. All three factors needs to be in place. Or knowledge (bad knowledge? Nothing really applicable conveyed) can just be a tautological argument since it's beyond any rebuttal. That's my simplistic grasp on knowledge, it's been defined differently by other people, but this is what I go by in a fallible, dynamic, ever-changing world. :P

Please dont ask me what is rationally sensible, or who decides to what extent a proper accordance really is, or we will be here all night.

[QUOTE="Cokelore"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Why did you differentiate born again?

LJS9502_basic

I assume being a born again Christian is accepting Yeshua as lamb of god who died for you personally allowing a relationship to be bridged with God himself? Through that find the true route to salvation that is not of good works or "scales" (no offense)?

Or did you mean I needed a hypen? :?

I guess...

I have no idea what defines regular Christians...a lot of people call themselves a Christian without understanding what it means to be one.

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

if he knows me for who I am, then why would I need to accept jesus? believing in something that can be proven untrue sends me to hell?(not that I believe in hell, just for arguments sake). how is an omnipotent being able to justify sending people to the worst place in the universe....... yet still be a good omnipotent being at the same time? his omnipotence actually is what makes it hard to believe, he can't be good.........and bad at the same time. they contradict each other. the bible is the worst book ever written, it was written by men who felt compelled to make people feel moral while supporting an organization which has caused more deaths than the holocaust. christianity is the epitome of irony.

hahaokaay

I am not trying to convert. I am just arguing my point of view.

You need to accept Jesus so that He can cleanse you of your sins. God is pure, and one cannot be one with Him without being cleansed. So you must go through Jesus to being cleansed of your sins. God is more than just a loving God. He must pass judgement on your sins if they are not forgiven. That goes back to you not being able to be one with God while your 'unclean' with sin. Why this is I am not sure, but it does tend to make sense. You can put down Chritianity all you want. You can claim that it is the epitome of irony, but that does not make it true. You should not pass your own judgement on a religion through the acts of men and women who carry the cross on Earth. No one is perfect with the exception of Christ ( if you believe in Christianity). I don't know what to tell you except that it sounds like you are fighting with yourself inside over this ideal, and no one, but yourself, will be able to change your perception of Christianity. Though many horrible things have been done by men carrying the cross, that's not to say that many wonderful things have also been done by men carrying the cross. If Satan truly wanted to ruin men and women on Earth in the sake of fighting against God then wouldn't it make sense that Satan would find His way into the church in order to ruin Christianity at it's foundation? The Church and the Bible are two of the main foundations for Christianity on Earth, and that is why Satan would need to destroy the reputation of both to help sway people from accepting them as truth. I have read the Bible. Have you? I'm not saying that I am better than you because I have read it, but at least I gave it a chance before passing judgement on it.

Interesting question! Yes I have read the bible, as well as the works of C.S. Lewis. I have also studied many religions as well as read many books on the topic. What were we talking about again? Oh right, the bible is full of contradictions. And their is no logical way to get into heaven, because you can't ever meet gods standards. This goes back to my question which no one answered, how much faith does it take to get into heaven? Whose to say the person acting good but doesnt read the bible goes to hell, while the person who murders gets into heaven. What percentage of belief do these people have?

Maybe that's why God sent His Son to Earth to cleanse us of our sins. Godmay realize that we are full of sin, and that would be why their is no logical way to get into heaven.

I don't believe there is an amount of faith needed to get into heaven. Either you have faith or you don't. It's not a percentage that you must meet to be allowed in through the pearly gates. Also, I don't think that one must read the Bible to get into Heaven. I sometimes find work and my faith comparable. At work you are judged according to how much you know, and then how well you use the knowledge you've learnt. So a new worker at a place of employement may only be expected to do so much, but after a few years your work load may increase quite a bit. Then your boss will expect you to do much more. Well, with God the more knowledge you obtain the more He may expect you to act in certain ways. If your a pastor for a church wouldn't God expect you to do much more for the Christian way of life compared to a new follower of the faith who knows very little. So when we are judged I would like to believe that God will know what it is that you've learnt through your life, and then how well did you use your knowledge to help better yourself and those around you.

I sense a troll!ferrari2001

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]I sense a troll!Harshvardhan666

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

I am not trying to convert. I am just arguing my point of view.

You need to accept Jesus so that He can cleanse you of your sins. God is pure, and one cannot be one with Him without being cleansed. So you must go through Jesus to being cleansed of your sins. God is more than just a loving God. He must pass judgement on your sins if they are not forgiven. That goes back to you not being able to be one with God while your 'unclean' with sin. Why this is I am not sure, but it does tend to make sense. You can put down Chritianity all you want. You can claim that it is the epitome of irony, but that does not make it true. You should not pass your own judgement on a religion through the acts of men and women who carry the cross on Earth. No one is perfect with the exception of Christ ( if you believe in Christianity). I don't know what to tell you except that it sounds like you are fighting with yourself inside over this ideal, and no one, but yourself, will be able to change your perception of Christianity. Though many horrible things have been done by men carrying the cross, that's not to say that many wonderful things have also been done by men carrying the cross. If Satan truly wanted to ruin men and women on Earth in the sake of fighting against God then wouldn't it make sense that Satan would find His way into the church in order to ruin Christianity at it's foundation? The Church and the Bible are two of the main foundations for Christianity on Earth, and that is why Satan would need to destroy the reputation of both to help sway people from accepting them as truth. I have read the Bible. Have you? I'm not saying that I am better than you because I have read it, but at least I gave it a chance before passing judgement on it.

zmbi_gmr

Interesting question! Yes I have read the bible, as well as the works of C.S. Lewis. I have also studied many religions as well as read many books on the topic. What were we talking about again? Oh right, the bible is full of contradictions. And their is no logical way to get into heaven, because you can't ever meet gods standards. This goes back to my question which no one answered, how much faith does it take to get into heaven? Whose to say the person acting good but doesnt read the bible goes to hell, while the person who murders gets into heaven. What percentage of belief do these people have?

Maybe that's why God sent His Son to Earth to cleanse us of our sins. Godmay realize that we are full of sin, and that would be why their is no logical way to get into heaven.

I don't believe there is an amount of faith needed to get into heaven. Either you have faith or you don't. It's not a percentage that you must meet to be allowed in through the pearly gates. Also, I don't think that one must read the Bible to get into Heaven. I sometimes find work and my faith comparable. At work you are judged according to how much you know, and then how well you use the knowledge you've learnt. So a new worker at a place of employement may only be expected to do so much, but after a few years your work load may increase quite a bit. Then your boss will expect you to do much more. Well, with God the more knowledge you obtain the more He may expect you to act in certain ways. If your a pastor for a church wouldn't God expect you to do much more for the Christian way of life compared to a new follower of the faith who knows very little. So when we are judged I would like to believe that God will know what it is that you've learnt through your life, and then how well did you use your knowledge to help better yourself and those around you.

The pope is a troll, you know why? He knows the most about God and everything else spiritually. However he has covered up child molesters andbasically gave them the ability to continue raping little children. What percentage of faith does the pope have? He has all the knowledge and beliefs, yet he acts completly opposite. Hm...... i think we are all being trolled by the universe.

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

Interesting question! Yes I have read the bible, as well as the works of C.S. Lewis. I have also studied many religions as well as read many books on the topic. What were we talking about again? Oh right, the bible is full of contradictions. And their is no logical way to get into heaven, because you can't ever meet gods standards. This goes back to my question which no one answered, how much faith does it take to get into heaven? Whose to say the person acting good but doesnt read the bible goes to hell, while the person who murders gets into heaven. What percentage of belief do these people have?

hahaokaay

Maybe that's why God sent His Son to Earth to cleanse us of our sins. Godmay realize that we are full of sin, and that would be why their is no logical way to get into heaven.

I don't believe there is an amount of faith needed to get into heaven. Either you have faith or you don't. It's not a percentage that you must meet to be allowed in through the pearly gates. Also, I don't think that one must read the Bible to get into Heaven. I sometimes find work and my faith comparable. At work you are judged according to how much you know, and then how well you use the knowledge you've learnt. So a new worker at a place of employement may only be expected to do so much, but after a few years your work load may increase quite a bit. Then your boss will expect you to do much more. Well, with God the more knowledge you obtain the more He may expect you to act in certain ways. If your a pastor for a church wouldn't God expect you to do much more for the Christian way of life compared to a new follower of the faith who knows very little. So when we are judged I would like to believe that God will know what it is that you've learnt through your life, and then how well did you use your knowledge to help better yourself and those around you.

The pope is a troll, you know why? He knows the most about God and everything else spiritually. However he has covered up child molesters andbasically gave them the ability to continue raping little children. What percentage of faith does the pope have? He has all the knowledge and beliefs, yet he acts completly opposite. Hm...... i think we are all being trolled by the universe.

[QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

[QUOTE="zmbi_gmr"]

Maybe that's why God sent His Son to Earth to cleanse us of our sins. Godmay realize that we are full of sin, and that would be why their is no logical way to get into heaven.

I don't believe there is an amount of faith needed to get into heaven. Either you have faith or you don't. It's not a percentage that you must meet to be allowed in through the pearly gates. Also, I don't think that one must read the Bible to get into Heaven. I sometimes find work and my faith comparable. At work you are judged according to how much you know, and then how well you use the knowledge you've learnt. So a new worker at a place of employement may only be expected to do so much, but after a few years your work load may increase quite a bit. Then your boss will expect you to do much more. Well, with God the more knowledge you obtain the more He may expect you to act in certain ways. If your a pastor for a church wouldn't God expect you to do much more for the Christian way of life compared to a new follower of the faith who knows very little. So when we are judged I would like to believe that God will know what it is that you've learnt through your life, and then how well did you use your knowledge to help better yourself and those around you.

ferrari2001

The pope is a troll, you know why? He knows the most about God and everything else spiritually. However he has covered up child molesters andbasically gave them the ability to continue raping little children. What percentage of faith does the pope have? He has all the knowledge and beliefs, yet he acts completly opposite. Hm...... i think we are all being trolled by the universe.

I think it's hilarious that a thread intended completely to troll, has actually sparked pretty well thought out answers and a good discussion. :lol: Mission Failed TC

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"][QUOTE="hahaokaay"]

The pope is a troll, you know why? He knows the most about God and everything else spiritually. However he has covered up child molesters andbasically gave them the ability to continue raping little children. What percentage of faith does the pope have? He has all the knowledge and beliefs, yet he acts completly opposite. Hm...... i think we are all being trolled by the universe.

MystikFollower

I think it's hilarious that a thread intended completely to troll, has actually sparked pretty well thought out answers and a good discussion. :lol: Mission Failed TC

I have not failed mere mortal. I have brought up discussions that are well educated beyond your comprehension. If you duly note I am actually the most intelligent poster in this thread. Where you may see me as a troll, I am actually a life counselor.