Is suicide really that selfish?

The thing is that those who are doing this suicide aren't in any pain except in their own little world.GodLovesDead

And how do you know this? Have you ever been suicidal?

[QUOTE="GodLovesDead"]The thing is that those who are doing this suicide aren't in any pain except in their own little world.harashawn

And how do you know this? Have you ever been suicidal?

Maybe his ghost has come back to haunt OT. :|

I lost someone to suicide, and I felt worse for him than I did for myself or even his family. When I think of the emotional pain that he must have went through. We all know what it feels like to be really down, alot of us don't know what it's like to feel THAT down though.

So yeah, I would be slow to point a finger at someone who took thier own life and call them selfish. Of coarse suicide is never the right way out, no matter how terrible you feel.

The thing is that those who are doing this suicide aren't in any pain except in their own little world.GodLovesDead

It's not selfish, just stupid.bangell99

It's a little of both.

Suicide is NEVER the only escape. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It couldn't be more selfish. Pirate700

agreed well said

Does anyone who actualy has real experiance with suicide think its selfish is a better question. So far from the looks of things it seems to tbe those who have never experianced anything to do wit suicide think it is whilst those who have do not.htekemerald

You don't have to have a personal experience to know that killing yourself will hurt your friends and family.

Does anyone who actualy has real experiance with suicide think its selfish is a better question. So far from the looks of things it seems to tbe those who have never experianced anything to do wit suicide think it is whilst those who have do not.htekemerald

So I guess I'm not sure. It would seem he was the real victim. The traggedy more that he took his life, than the loss that others suffered. I'm not sure if posting that accoplished anything, but thats the only suicide close enough for me to be emotionally affected.

I think it is selfish unless it is a case of someone with a disease that is always fatal that will be very painful to endure. Those who care about the person would likely rather they have a peaceful death than a dragged-out painful one.darkodonnie

The thing is, people in mental turmoil kill themselves much more than those in physical pain, how can you determine which is more painful to the person, if you go by this statement you could assume that mental illness is more painful.

[QUOTE="darkodonnie"]I think it is selfish unless it is a case of someone with a disease that is always fatal that will be very painful to endure. Those who care about the person would likely rather they have a peaceful death than a dragged-out painful one.black_tempest

The thing is, people in mental turmoil kill themselves much more than those in physical pain, how can you determine which is more painful to the person, if you go by this statement you could assume that mental illness is more painful.

mental turmoil shouldn't be fatal and as a result is not a valid reason for suicide in my view

[QUOTE="black_tempest"]

[QUOTE="darkodonnie"]I think it is selfish unless it is a case of someone with a disease that is always fatal that will be very painful to endure. Those who care about the person would likely rather they have a peaceful death than a dragged-out painful one.darkodonnie

The thing is, people in mental turmoil kill themselves much more than those in physical pain, how can you determine which is more painful to the person, if you go by this statement you could assume that mental illness is more painful.

mental turmoil shouldn't be fatal and as a result is not a valid reason for suicide in my view

But there has to be a reason that mental turmoil results in more suicides than physical pain.

[QUOTE="ElectronicMagic"]

Actually, where I am from is notorious for the amount of suicides. I have had a close friend commit suicide, of course I was sad at the time, but for crying out loud the pain goes away and you move on. I don't dwell on something that happened almost 8 years ago. Regardless of those that die, life goes on.

darkspineslayer

It's been so long that I am indifferent to the whole situation. So much has happened in 8 years, that I honestly hardly ever think about it. I go to his grave once a year out of respect or habit(or both). But I don't feel sad or happy, I just feel like "Well, it was nice to know you.". I guess from all the suicides around here, that I might be desensitized to it. Of course at the time I didn't feel this way, but within 6 months I reached an apathetic state of feeling towards it.

I don't encourage suicide, I just don't think it's a selfish thing(anymore than anything else a person does). I have been to dark places over the years and I can honestly say that suicide is one of the most difficult and horrific things a person could do. In a weird way I can respect my friend's decision to kill himself, because I've been there and I know how hard it actually is to be faced with that decision.

[QUOTE="black_tempest"]

[QUOTE="darkodonnie"]I think it is selfish unless it is a case of someone with a disease that is always fatal that will be very painful to endure. Those who care about the person would likely rather they have a peaceful death than a dragged-out painful one.darkodonnie

The thing is, people in mental turmoil kill themselves much more than those in physical pain, how can you determine which is more painful to the person, if you go by this statement you could assume that mental illness is more painful.

mental turmoil shouldn't be fatal and as a result is not a valid reason for suicide in my view

Most people that suffer from depression feel as if no one cares about or loves them, and that there is no hope for them. They feel as if their life is terrible, and they have no chance of it ever getting better. Many go without treatment, because they've either had bad experiences with treatment in the past, they're too embarrassed to accept it and want no one to know of it, or they don't believe that they have it. I don't think it's fair to judge someone that is suffering from depression, because they aren't in the best state of mind to be making decisions, but unfortunately they can't control what is happening in their brain.

Does anyone who actualy has real experiance with suicide think its selfish is a better question. So far from the looks of things it seems to tbe those who have never experianced anything to do wit suicide think it is whilst those who have do not.htekemerald

I agree. I think that a lot of people like to think that they understand how depression works, but don't really have a clue. You have to go through what we've gone through to understand it.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]Does anyone who actualy has real experiance with suicide think its selfish is a better question. So far from the looks of things it seems to tbe those who have never experianced anything to do wit suicide think it is whilst those who have do not.d51man

I agree. I think that a lot of people like to think that they understand how depression works, but don't really have a clue. You have to go through what we've gone through to understand it.

Bi-polar disorder is much worse (for being confused by people). People thinks it's split personalities, and they have no clue what it does to people, therefore those with it are seen as psychotic,

Yes it is selfish, and I have one message to potential suiciders:
TOUGH IT UP PRINCESS. The rest of us do, and we don't complain. Stop being all melodramatic and stop feeling sorry for yourself. If you need help, get it. "But people won't help me!" is what I mean by being melodramatic. Try harder for help douchbag.

Also a message for depressed people:
If you can admit your depressed, then you're not, you just want attention. The only way you can be depressed is if it's a chronic brain disorder or you can't admit you're depressed. Tough it up or get help, you stupid emo.

There. That's what I'd say to those people. No, it's not harsh, it's truthful.

awsss

Right... Don't even get me started on the 'emo' crap. I'm so sick of the ignorance of people using the word.

I'm depressed. Does that mean I want attention? No. It means I'm upset about something, and I'm quite aware of that fact. I have been for three years. Sorry, but your logic fails.

it is the most selfish thing to do. you escape everything while your loved ones sufferFUBAR24

And what if you don't have any 'loved ones'? What then?...

[QUOTE="FUBAR24"]it is the most selfish thing to do. you escape everything while your loved ones sufferHinata237

And what if you don't have any 'loved ones'? What then?...

there is almost ALWAYS someone who cares, but the depressed one is wallowing to deep in self pity to see it.

[QUOTE="Hinata237"]

[QUOTE="FUBAR24"]it is the most selfish thing to do. you escape everything while your loved ones sufferdarkspineslayer

And what if you don't have any 'loved ones'? What then?...

there is almost ALWAYS someone who cares, but the depressed one is wallowing to deep in self pity to see it.

Uhh, no, sorry, but there isn't 'always someone who cares'. That's a pretty stupid thing to say. There's always someone better out there, and eventually you end up completely alone. That's life.

It's not selfish, just stupid.bangell99

You have no right to say that. Period.

[QUOTE="darkspineslayer"][QUOTE="Hinata237"]

[QUOTE="FUBAR24"]it is the most selfish thing to do. you escape everything while your loved ones sufferHinata237

And what if you don't have any 'loved ones'? What then?...

there is almost ALWAYS someone who cares, but the depressed one is wallowing to deep in self pity to see it.

Uhh, no, sorry, but there isn't 'always someone who cares'. That's a pretty stupid thing to say. There's always someone better out there, and eventually you end up completely alone. That's life.

quite the outlook you got thar... :|

sorry, but unless your whole damn family died and your do damn unfriendly to make any friends...9/10 cases will have somebody suffer in the end... to say there isn't ever somebody who dosen't want you dead is pure blindness. :|

*dosen't expect to win argument*

how would you know how ive felt, you dont know me. i know what being hated is like but i never give up so i dont let those people bring me to the point of wanting to die, i also have a fail safe againts it i cant imagine doing that to myself its so wrong to me that i could never do it. ive had a gf who wanted to kill herself, you know how that makes somebody feel who cares alot about you, so dont tell me ive never experianced it before, thats how i can say its selfish she didnt care about how it would affect me or her family she was only thinking of herself and that was extremly selfish to me that she would throw her life away like that even when there were people who cared about her, luckily she didnt do it but it still validates my point

cornholio157

It seems more like you were the selfish one. Instead of thinking about how she felt, you thought only about how it affects you.

Suicide is individualistic, and if something is motivated solely by self-interest then it isn't a good thing.

If someone's going to commit suicide, they should try to measure the impacts of their presumed actions; it may even cause others to take their lives.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]Does anyone who actualy has real experiance with suicide think its selfish is a better question. So far from the looks of things it seems to tbe those who have never experianced anything to do wit suicide think it is whilst those who have do not.I_pWnzz_YoU

You don't have to have a personal experience to know that killing yourself will hurt your friends and family.

Again, it goes both ways. When someone truly hates living, and all indications are that they will continue to hate living for as long as they live, how is it NOT selfish to expect them to live for another 60 years just so that you aren't "hurt" by their death?

And let's not ignore the "shame" factor of it. Really, how many of you would be more disappointed if your wife or son committed suicide, as opposed to dying of cancer or the flu? The fact is, suicide IS generally looked down upon, and that factors into people's opinions on suicide. If a loved one dies of cancer, it's sad, but you can say that they were a fighter. But if your son dies by intentionally killing himself, there's this ugly little cloud of shame. That he didn't die a DIGNIFIED death, and that that somehow reflects on you. Is THAT not a selfish concern?

Is suicide selfish? Of course. And it's at least as selfish to expect someone to live a life full of misery so that you don't get hurt. There's plenty of selfishness to go around.

[QUOTE="black_tempest"]

[QUOTE="darkodonnie"]I think it is selfish unless it is a case of someone with a disease that is always fatal that will be very painful to endure. Those who care about the person would likely rather they have a peaceful death than a dragged-out painful one.darkodonnie

The thing is, people in mental turmoil kill themselves much more than those in physical pain, how can you determine which is more painful to the person, if you go by this statement you could assume that mental illness is more painful.

mental turmoil shouldn't be fatal and as a result is not a valid reason for suicide in my view

I don't understand this point of view.

If you're in pain, and can continue to live the rest of your life in pain, then killing yourself is wrong? But if you're in pain and are gonna die within a year, then it's OKAY to kill yourself?

WHY? If what's causing you pain is fatal, then why not put up with it for another six months or so? And if you can't expect someone to put up with that pain for six months, then how can you expect people suffering from non-lethal pain to put up with their pain for DECADES?

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Suicide is NEVER the only escape. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It couldn't be more selfish. Samwel_X

I agree, the only time I think it is really acceptable is if someone has a terminal disease or something that will not be cured and will only cause that person immense pain.

[QUOTE="I_pWnzz_YoU"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]Does anyone who actualy has real experiance with suicide think its selfish is a better question. So far from the looks of things it seems to tbe those who have never experianced anything to do wit suicide think it is whilst those who have do not.MrGeezer

You don't have to have a personal experience to know that killing yourself will hurt your friends and family.

Again, it goes both ways. When someone truly hates living, and all indications are that they will continue to hate living for as long as they live, how is it NOT selfish to expect them to live for another 60 years just so that you aren't "hurt" by their death?

And let's not ignore the "shame" factor of it. Really, how many of you would be more disappointed if your wife or son committed suicide, as opposed to dying of cancer or the flu? The fact is, suicide IS generally looked down upon, and that factors into people's opinions on suicide. If a loved one dies of cancer, it's sad, but you can say that they were a fighter. But if your son dies by intentionally killing himself, there's this ugly little cloud of shame. That he didn't die a DIGNIFIED death, and that that somehow reflects on you. Is THAT not a selfish concern?

Is suicide selfish? Of course. And it's at least as selfish to expect someone to live a life full of misery so that you don't get hurt. There's plenty of selfishness to go around.

I get what you're saying and agree with most of it. But if someone is internally scarred they should try to seek help. They should at least try and push back this depression thats haunting them. Suicide should be a last resort, that is if it is entirely neccessary. But the thing with the "if you die your family will be sad" has haunted me. Not because I've had thoughts of killing myself. But what if something happened? Like I was hit by a car or something. I couldn't even begin to imagine what my family would go through. You can't forget something like that, you can try to get over it, but even that could take a lifetime.

[QUOTE="harashawn"][QUOTE="cornholio157"]

how would you know how ive felt, you dont know me. i know what being hated is like but i never give up so i dont let those people bring me to the point of wanting to die, i also have a fail safe againts it i cant imagine doing that to myself its so wrong to me that i could never do it. ive had a gf who wanted to kill herself, you know how that makes somebody feel who cares alot about you, so dont tell me ive never experianced it before, thats how i can say its selfish she didnt care about how it would affect me or her family she was only thinking of herself and that was extremly selfish to me that she would throw her life away like that even when there were people who cared about her, luckily she didnt do it but it still validates my point

cornholio157

It seems more like you were the selfish one. Instead of thinking about how she felt, you thought only about how it affects you.

i know how she felt, what was happening to her happened to me before, i told her about it and i talked to her about it, if it wasnt for me being there for her she probly would have done it. she even told me a while later that without me around she would have done it.

if im correct your the one who tried to do it before, and thats why you take this so personally. i may have not been as clear in my first post as i should have but acting on emotions judgment is blurred. i know not all attepmts are for selfish reasons and i didnt mean to offend you if i did if thats how my first post sounded to you

I've you'd truly gone through what she was going through, I'd have thought you'd be more understanding and sympathetic towards her. I agree with Harashawn, it seems like you were more concerned with how you felt and how you would feel in the future than how she felt and what was going on with her.

[QUOTE="Samwel_X"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Suicide is NEVER the only escape. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It couldn't be more selfish. Obama71

I agree, the only time I think it is really acceptable is if someone has a terminal disease or something that will not be cured and will only cause that person immense pain.

Study: Depression Hits Losers Hardest.


septemberluc

[QUOTE="Obama71"][QUOTE="Samwel_X"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Suicide is NEVER the only escape. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It couldn't be more selfish. blackngold29

I agree, the only time I think it is really acceptable is if someone has a terminal disease or something that will not be cured and will only cause that person immense pain.

Link? Because I'm pretty sure that by "doping" people up on drugs, they won't feel any pain, therefore by that logic physical pain can always be cured.

She think she is doing a great thing for the people be happy because her acts....

But it only go make all Sad...

Today, this girl said that suicide is selfish and causes unnecessary pain to loved ones. I have to disagree, because I believe that some people are in unimaginable pain, and they're unable to deal with it and that is their only escape. What do you guys think?d51man

Now are we talking about medical assisted suicide? Or what?

If its a "my life sucks so bad" suicide, then no, its not unimaginable pain. You let it in, you confront your demons, and you stand back up and move your life forward. Taking your life because your hurting emotionally is just weak. If your taking your life because of horrible physical pain that will only end in death, then I can understand that.

Suicide is just easier than dealing with the problems that you need to deal with. It is harder to confront your own demons and work your life out even if everything is against you. However in the end you will be a better person if you stick it out.

[QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="Obama71"][QUOTE="Samwel_X"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Suicide is NEVER the only escape. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It couldn't be more selfish. black_tempest

I agree, the only time I think it is really acceptable is if someone has a terminal disease or something that will not be cured and will only cause that person immense pain.

Link? Because I'm pretty sure that by "doping" people up on drugs, they won't feel any pain, therefore by that logic physical pain can always be cured.

Some pains reside even with being doped up. In which case you need to be in a self induced coma or of the same degree. Never been so doped up that you just feel the immense "ache"? Its a very dull but agonized pain. It isnt as pronounced as before, but if the pain is within your bones or constant function even drugs do not always remove it to an acceptable level.

That and some drugs, often the most potent ones, are easier to build a resistance up to. Thus, over time, it helps less and less. If you become tolerant to the effects of the most potent pain killers then your in a really bad spot.

It's a selfish act brought on by one's own weaknesses.

[QUOTE="black_tempest"][QUOTE="blackngold29"][QUOTE="Obama71"][QUOTE="Samwel_X"]

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Suicide is NEVER the only escape. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It couldn't be more selfish. CreasianDevaili

I agree, the only time I think it is really acceptable is if someone has a terminal disease or something that will not be cured and will only cause that person immense pain.

Link? Because I'm pretty sure that by "doping" people up on drugs, they won't feel any pain, therefore by that logic physical pain can always be cured.

Some pains reside even with being doped up. In which case you need to be in a self induced coma or of the same degree. Never been so doped up that you just feel the immense "ache"? Its a very dull but agonized pain. It isnt as pronounced as before, but if the pain is within your bones or constant function even drugs do not always remove it to an acceptable level.

That and some drugs, often the most potent ones, are easier to build a resistance up to. Thus, over time, it helps less and less. If you become tolerant to the effects of the most potent pain killers then your in a really bad spot.

Hmm... same thing could be said about mental illnesses. Not everything can be treated by a psychologist, and since drugs would lose there affect on those with physical pain, same could be said about those with mental illnesses.

Hmm... same thing could be said about mental illnesses. Not everything can be treated by a psychologist, and since drugs would lose there affect on those with physical pain, same could be said about those with mental illnesses.black_tempest

What mental illness are we speaking of?

If we are speaking of those who are just not "wired" right, then I highly doubt suicide for them and someone with say, PTSD is the same. Knowingly doing it because your life sucks or that you just dont feel anyone cares about you is what I refer to. If your talking about those that do it during some drug overdosed craze or because they didnt fully understand what they were doing, then its a tad different.

I see, however, VERY little by which you should take your own life through mental illness if your in control.