Is the Idea of Eternal Hellfire a Biblical Teaching?

Does the Bible truly teach that Humans who have failed to redeem themselves will burn in eternal hellfire? Let's see.

The Spirit and The Soul

• (2) And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.Genesis 2

  Notice that this verse says that the man BECAME a living soul. Hence, Humans ARE living souls; they don't have living souls. I repeat, Humans don't have souls; Humans ARE souls. There's a huge difference; this isn't a mere semantic argument. Also notice that it says that God breathed into his nostrils "the breath of life". What is this breath of life that caused the inanimate body of Adam to become a living being? Let us see in the following bullet point.

• (26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.James 2

  Notice that this verse says that without the spirit, the body is dead (just as Adam's body was dead before God breathed into its nostrils "the breath of life"). The conclusion is that the breath of life is SPIRIT.
• Hence, we get the following: A physical body POWERED by SPIRIT is a SOUL. The spirit is like a battery, and the soul (the person/ the being) is the device being powered by it.

What Happens to The Spirit and The Soul Upon Death?

• (In regard to Humans upon death)

  (4) His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.psalm 146

  We have already established that the "breath" is spirit. Hence, when this verse says that "His breath goeth forth", it is referring to the spirit. Notice that it also says that HEreturns to the Earth. In other words, the person returns to the Earth (i.e. the person stops existing). This is further supported by the final clause of the verse, which says "in that very day HIS THOUGHTS PERISH." We haven't gotten to the part about eternal hellfire yet, but keep in mind that if someone is to burn in hell forever, their thoughts would not perish (i.e their consciousness would not end [How else would they suffer?]).
• (In regard to Humans upon death)

  (7) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.Ecclesiastes 12

  The meaning of this verse is very obvious. The spirit (i.e. the force which powers the body, thus keeping it alive) returns to God.
• Thus far we have come to understand that Humans don't have souls but are souls, spirit powers the body to keep it living (i.e. to make it into a soul [ a living being]), and that upon death consciousness ceases.

What is Hell?

• (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second deathRevelation 20

  Notice that it says that death and HELL were cast into the lake of fire. If Hell is a place where people are burned eternally, then how can it itself be thrown into fire? That makes no sense. Hence, this verse is figurative. So we must ask our selves the following: What happens to something when its thrown into fire? Answer: It's destroyed! Hence, what this verse is saying is that death (i.e. the phenomenon by which people cease to exist, will come to an end). Let's look at the following verse as well.

• (15) "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."Revelations 20

  Just as death is destroyed, so will those who have failed to be redeemed. Hence, no one will suffer in eternal hellfire, they'll simply be destroyed (i.e. put into a permanent state of non-existence).
• Those who have redeemed themselves will be resurrected upon the day of judgement (i.e. God will bring them back into a state of existence by reforming their bodies from the Earth and putting spirit back into those bodies, thus brining them back to life), and allowed to remain alive FOREVER.
• God is not sadistic. He is fair.

Your topic machine never stops does it?

Doesn't matter if it's an actually teaching, it's a great way to scare people into becoming Christians

Your topic machine never stops does it?

CHOASXIII

Nope. I've got six threads in the works right now.

[QUOTE="CHOASXIII"]

Your topic machine never stops does it?

BluRayHiDef

Nope. I've got six threads in the works right now.

Not suprised really.

another "its not literal its a "teaching" thread"?

no matter how you want to rationalizate it, no matter if there are some teachings (which should be common sense anyway or teached by the parents in their homes) the bible is just an outdated full of contradictions book whcih reflected what the people of those era believed, no different than greek mythology.

[QUOTE="CHOASXIII"]

Your topic machine never stops does it?

BluRayHiDef

Nope. I've got six threads in the works right now.

It is now....but it was a mistranslated piece and just the passing of time made people believe in it.

Would you consider yourself a Christian, TC?

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="CHOASXIII"]

Your topic machine never stops does it?

dave123321

Nope. I've got six threads in the works right now.

mumblebosh'tetmumble

Would you consider yourself a Christian, TC?

J-man45

I'm a secular person with a scholarly understanding of the Bible. :P

The thing about Hell is that, like Heaven, Jesus doesn't really explain what it is. One very common definition of hell is "any place or state of torment or misery," while Heaven is often described as eternal life. Those who do not believe in Christ will suffer, but not in eternal hellfire; rather, in life.

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last dayAccording to John

will all likewise perish. According to Luke

Jesus said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you." Matthew 21 verse 31

[QUOTE="dave123321"][QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Nope. I've got six threads in the works right now.

CHOASXIII

mumblebosh'tetmumble

< 3

It is now....but it was a mistranslated piece and just the passing of time made people believe in it.

wis3boi

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

It is now....but it was a mistranslated piece and just the passing of time made people believe in it.

Nibroc420

That's what all religion is to me, yes. Tales to make people fearful and sumbit to it. Hell concepts really put icing on the cake

Who in their right mind wants to spend eternity in heaven anyway? Being stuck with your family members forever? I'd go fkn insane.

OP makes sense but that doesn't gel with the Bible's description of hell as place where people gnash their teeth or somesuch (I'm no biblical scholar).

These kinds of threads remind me of Star Wars plot hole discussions, where elaborate theories are built to hide the fact that George Lucas had no idea what he was doing and was making it up as he went along.

Not trying to be "that guy" but just to point out, the Bible says the words "eternal fire" at least once (Matthew 18:8). And I don't know if I agree with TC's interpretation of a "spirit" or a "soul."

Not trying to be "that guy" but just to point out, the Bible says the words "eternal fire" at least once (Matthew 18:8). And I don't know if I agree with TC's interpretation of a "spirit" or a "soul."

J-man45

lol, the religious, so silly they are bullied by iron age goat humpers.

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

Not trying to be "that guy" but just to point out, the Bible says the words "eternal fire" at least once (Matthew 18:8). And I don't know if I agree with TC's interpretation of a "spirit" or a "soul."

harashawn

It's all really confusing to me. There's phrasing like "We didn't see anybody. Not one living soul." and then a verse in the Bible like "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose his soul?" I haven't studied the original text, but I feel like there could be a few different words in the Bible that all translate to the word "soul" in English.

[QUOTE="harashawn"][QUOTE="J-man45"]

Not trying to be "that guy" but just to point out, the Bible says the words "eternal fire" at least once (Matthew 18:8). And I don't know if I agree with TC's interpretation of a "spirit" or a "soul."

J-man45

It's all really confusing to me. There's phrasing like "Not a living soul" and then a verse in the Bible like "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose his soul?" I haven't studied the original text, but I feel like there could be a few different words in the Bible that all translate to the word "soul" in English.

I haven't studied the original text, but I feel like there could be a few different words in the Bible that all translate to the word "soul" in English.J-man45

I thought revelations was just some book about a dude's acid trip.

I thought revelations was just some book about a dude's acid trip.

sonicare

[QUOTE="J-man45"]I haven't studied the original text, but I feel like there could be a few different words in the Bible that all translate to the word "soul" in English.Zeviander

But that's what I'm saying. In TC's first verse, the word translated to soul is definitely referring to "human being." But to say that soul means "human being" everywhere else in the Bible would not be correct. You have to look at things more in context. So, man still could have a metaphysical driving force like a "soul" or its synonym "spirit." Hence the verse "body without the spirit is dead..." or "body without the soul is dead..." Those verses to me seem to define the spirit as something closely related to what most people think of as a soul, which is why I have trouble following what TC is saying.

Impressive quote mining. Can't wait for this thread to catch fire and run to the dry forest. I personally have always questioned the Christian use of Hell. It is barely supported by the New Testament, and actual places from the Old are mistranslated. It isn't even a central tenet of the Christian teachings, and yet today, going to any church (especially a Protestant one), you will probably hear more about Hell than anything else. I find the idea that there are people put there who avoid immoral behavior solely because they are afraid of Hell to be exceptionally abhorrent.Zeviander

Insulting me, I see? There's nothing deceptive about anything in the OP. It's all in agreement with the Bible.

[QUOTE="harashawn"][QUOTE="J-man45"]

Not trying to be "that guy" but just to point out, the Bible says the words "eternal fire" at least once (Matthew 18:8). And I don't know if I agree with TC's interpretation of a "spirit" or a "soul."

J-man45

It's all really confusing to me. There's phrasing like "We didn't see anybody. Not one living soul." and then a verse in the Bible like "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose his soul?" I haven't studied the original text, but I feel like there could be a few different words in the Bible that all translate to the word "soul" in English.

Obviously it means "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose HIMSELF?" C'mon, man. That's weak.

Insulting me, I see? There's nothing deceptive about anything in the OP. It's all in agreement with the Bible.BluRayHiDef

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

• "And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).
• "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).
• These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

Source:

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]Insulting me, I see? There's nothing deceptive about anything in the OP. It's all in agreement with the Bible.Zeviander

What other concise way is there to prove a point? What would you have me do? Quote the ENTIRE Bible?

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

[QUOTE="harashawn"] As C.S. Lewis said, "You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body."BluRayHiDef

It's all really confusing to me. There's phrasing like "We didn't see anybody. Not one living soul." and then a verse in the Bible like "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose his soul?" I haven't studied the original text, but I feel like there could be a few different words in the Bible that all translate to the word "soul" in English.

Obviously it means "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose HIMSELF?" C'mon, man. That's weak.

"Hence, HumansAREliving souls; they don't have living souls."

How can you lose yourself, if not in a metaphorical sense? Yet according to your definition, it would be like losing a human, which doesn't exactly make a lot of sense. But whatever.

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

• "And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).
• "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).
• These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

Source:

whipassmt

Eternal Destruction. That simply means to be eternally in the state that results from having been destroyed (i.e. non-existence).

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

It's all really confusing to me. There's phrasing like "We didn't see anybody. Not one living soul." and then a verse in the Bible like "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose his soul?" I haven't studied the original text, but I feel like there could be a few different words in the Bible that all translate to the word "soul" in English.

J-man45

Obviously it means "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose HIMSELF?" C'mon, man. That's weak.

"Hence, HumansAREliving souls; they don't have living souls."

How can you lose yourself, if not in a metaphorical sense? Yet according to your definition, it would be like losing a human, which doesn't exactly make a lot of sense. But whatever.

• The particular verse you have in mind is obviously firgurative, whereas the ones I use in the OP are literal.

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

• "And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).
• "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).
• These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

Source:

BluRayHiDef

Eternal Destruction. That simply means to be eternally in the state that results from having been destroyed (i.e. non-existence).

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Obviously it means "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose HIMSELF?" C'mon, man. That's weak.

BluRayHiDef

"Hence, HumansAREliving souls; they don't have living souls."

How can you lose yourself, if not in a metaphorical sense? Yet according to your definition, it would be like losing a human, which doesn't exactly make a lot of sense. But whatever.

• The particular verse you have in mind is obviously firgurative, whereas the ones I use in the OP are literal.

In your verse, soul seems to mean human being. "Losing his soul," figurative or not, implies your losing something that makes up who you are. Now, in your other verses, it seems like spirit is more akin to having a soul than being a battery. Spirit and soul are also synonyms. So why can't the body return to dust and the spirit/soul move on to Heaven or Hell? "Body without the spirit is dead." Body dies, but spirit lives on.

What's the point of calling yourself an expert on the Bible when you don't really believe any of it anyway?

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

Obviously it means "What does it profit a man to gain the world and yet lose HIMSELF?" C'mon, man. That's weak.

BluRayHiDef

"Hence, HumansAREliving souls; they don't have living souls."

How can you lose yourself, if not in a metaphorical sense? Yet according to your definition, it would be like losing a human, which doesn't exactly make a lot of sense. But whatever.

• The particular verse you have in mind is obviously firgurative, whereas the ones I use in the OP are literal.

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

"Hence, HumansAREliving souls; they don't have living souls."

How can you lose yourself, if not in a metaphorical sense? Yet according to your definition, it would be like losing a human, which doesn't exactly make a lot of sense. But whatever.

J-man45

• The particular verse you have in mind is obviously firgurative, whereas the ones I use in the OP are literal.

In your verse, soul seems to mean human being. "Losing his soul," figurative or not, implies your losing something that makes up who you are. Now, in your other verses, it seems like spirit is more akin to having a soul than being a battery. Spirit and soul are also synonyms. So why can't the body return to dust and the spirit/soul move on to Heaven or Hell? "Body without the spirit is dead." Body dies, but spirit lives on.

What's the point of calling yourself an expert on the Bible when you don't really believe any of it anyway?

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

• "And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).
• "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).
• These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

Source:

whipassmt

What other concise way is there to prove a point? What would you have me do? Quote the ENTIRE Bible?BluRayHiDef

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

"Hence, HumansAREliving souls; they don't have living souls."

How can you lose yourself, if not in a metaphorical sense? Yet according to your definition, it would be like losing a human, which doesn't exactly make a lot of sense. But whatever.

J-man45

• The particular verse you have in mind is obviously firgurative, whereas the ones I use in the OP are literal.

In your verse, soul seems to mean human being. "Losing his soul," figurative or not, implies your losing something that makes up who you are. Now, in your other verses, it seems like spirit is more akin to having a soul than being a battery. Spirit and soul are also synonyms. So why can't the body return to dust and the spirit/soul move on to Heaven or Hell? "Body without the spirit is dead." Body dies, but spirit lives on.

What's the point of calling yourself an expert on the Bible when you don't really believe any of it anyway?

Spirit and Soul are not synonyms. Anyhow, the point of this thread is that there is no such thing as eternal torment in hellfire, and that can be proven without the parts regarding the Spirt and Soul because of the verses which state that a person's thoughts perish when they die (check the OP).

I'm a secular person with a scholarly understanding of the Bible. :P

BluRayHiDef

What does "scholarly understanding" mean?

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

• The particular verse you have in mind is obviously firgurative, whereas the ones I use in the OP are literal.

BluRayHiDef

In your verse, soul seems to mean human being. "Losing his soul," figurative or not, implies your losing something that makes up who you are. Now, in your other verses, it seems like spirit is more akin to having a soul than being a battery. Spirit and soul are also synonyms. So why can't the body return to dust and the spirit/soul move on to Heaven or Hell? "Body without the spirit is dead." Body dies, but spirit lives on.

What's the point of calling yourself an expert on the Bible when you don't really believe any of it anyway?

Spirit and Soul are not synonyms. Anyhow, the point of this thread is that there is no such thing as eternal torment in hellfire, and that can be proven without the parts regarding the Spirt and Soul because of the verses which state that a person's thoughts perish when they die (check the OP).

Yes they are.

"thoughts" comes from the same word for "plans." NIV uses "plans." The same happens between KJV and NIV for Jeremaiah 29:11, "I know the plans I have for you" versus "I know the thoughts I have for you." So that means that thoughts used here most likely implies thoughts of their own future, their HUMAN or NON-eternal thoughts, etc, to be replaced by what's in store for them in eternity.

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

• "And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).
• "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).
• These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

Source:

harashawn

Sounds interesting and I'll check it out further. Id like to believe it. But the story of the rich man in hell in the New Testament disturbs me. The story goes that a rich man while on earth refused to help out those in need specifically a poor man in his neighborhood. The rich man went to hell and the poor man went to heaven. The rich man pleaded for just a little bit of water to cool his tongue to relieve some his suffering in the flames. But heaven wouldnt allow it saying the rich man should have behaved better on earth so he wouldnt have to suffer like this in hell. Would someone please explain this story? Its scaring me having been a Christian years ago and now Im agnostic. You can use verse mining or whatever you have to do to ease my mind about this story. Ok I'm half joking about being scared but please interpret the story anyway plz. Source: Luke. 16:19-31 (Im no bible thumper, heres a link) : http://www.lazaruscomeforth.com/bible-lazarus-and-rich-manPlanetJosh

[QUOTE="harashawn"][QUOTE="whipassmt"]

"And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire," (Matt. 18:8).

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46).

• "And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).
• "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).
• These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

Source:

whipassmt

[QUOTE="PlanetJosh"]Sounds interesting and I'll check it out further. Id like to believe it. But the story of the rich man in hell in the New Testament disturbs me. The story goes that a rich man while on earth refused to help out those in need specifically a poor man in his neighborhood. The rich man went to hell and the poor man went to heaven. The rich man pleaded for just a little bit of water to cool his tongue to relieve some his suffering in the flames. But heaven wouldnt allow it saying the rich man should have behaved better on earth so he wouldnt have to suffer like this in hell. Would someone please explain this story? Its scaring me having been a Christian years ago and now Im agnostic. You can use verse mining or whatever you have to do to ease my mind about this story. Ok I'm half joking about being scared but please interpret the story anyway plz. Source: Luke. 16:19-31 (Im no bible thumper, heres a link) : http://www.lazaruscomeforth.com/bible-lazarus-and-rich-manwhipassmt

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="harashawn"] The "eternal fire" referenced in this passage is a mistranslation. The word "gehenna" does mean eternal fire, but it refers to a specific ravine in Jerusalem where "unclean" things and bodies of criminals were historically burned. It was called the eternal fire because it was always burning.harashawn