Is the mind the brain?

As it says in the title.

When I say mind I'm referring to the agent which enables our thought, intelligence and reason. Is the mind made from a non-physical substance which simply works through the brain or is the mind the brain itself?

A purely physical mind opens up the possiblity that other physical objects can have meaningful thoughts and carry out intelligent processes. Computer and animal intelligence can be concieved of as equal or greater to our own.

A non-physical mind grants the possibility that our consciousness is immortal. If the mind can exist seperately to our physical bodies then life after death would be possible.

As a side note is it possible to believe in life after death and yet not believe that the mind is non-physical? If our minds die along with our body then anything that goes to the afterlife ought not to be considered yourself.

Well the brain is a physical thing, you can open it up and go inside it but no matter what you do you will never experience the 'mind' that it creates, they are two seperate things,like you could never be inside it, the feelings we have arent physical imo, they just have physical counterparts for every pointwizard90

The brain is physical....the mind is not. That is how I see it.LJS9502_basic

Same here.

The brain is physical....the mind is not. That is how I see it.LJS9502_basic

I agree with this.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The brain is physical....the mind is not. That is how I see it.Theokhoth

I agree with this.

I'll second that.

[QUOTE="wizard90"]Well the brain is a physical thing, you can open it up and go inside it but no matter what you do you will never experience the 'mind' that it creates, they are two seperate things,like you could never be inside it, the feelings we have arent physical imo, they just have physical counterparts for every pointGrodus5

Actually, I think thoughts are physical, in that they are essentially nothing more than electrical impulses.

Well if you get brain damaged, you "mind" can be altered. The physicality of the brain affects the mind. When you get drunk you cant think clearly.....same thing, so the mind is very much linked to the physical.Videodogg

Not sure on that, really. The mind and conciousness are the same thing, and are both contained within the brain.Video_Game_King

Wow I'm surprised at the amount of people who think that the mind is non-physical. I was under the false impression that most OTers were physicalists.

The main issue here seems to be the role that brain damage has on our mind- a point which suggests that, at the very least, the mind cannot function without the brain. The mind however, if it is a non-physical entity could simply be interacting with the brain, taking messages and interpreting external stimulus to arrive at intelligent thought. The main problem with this though is that when the brain is destroyed at death the mind would not continue to exist in any meaningful way. We can see that with a damaged brain intelligence and consciousness cease to exist. A dead brain therefore would entail a mind completely devoid of any mental capacity- what good is it for something like that to survive death? It would not be "you" at all.

In psychology, I was taught that the mind is a collection of subjective thoughts. So anything such as emotion, perception, and imagination would be considered part of your mind. Also, the way people use the word mind (peace of mind, mind your own business, etc.) implies that it is something different from the brain.

If we were to make the mind immortal by downloading and copying it, would it be the same person when the original subject is physically dead?CptJSparrow

Given a materialist view and the possibility of digitising the brain I would say yes. Although that brings up the whole clone dilemma and set of identity problems.

Wow I'm surprised at the amount of people who think that the mind is non-physical. I was under the false impression that most OTers were physicalists.

The main issue here seems to be the role that brain damage has on our mind- a point which suggests that, at the very least, the mind cannot function without the brain. The mind however, if it is a non-physical entity could simply be interacting with the brain, taking messages and interpreting external stimulus to arrive at intelligent thought. The main problem with this though is that when the brain is destroyed at death the mind would not continue to exist in any meaningful way. We can see that with a damaged brain intelligence and consciousness cease to exist. A dead brain therefore would entail a mind completely devoid of any mental capacity- what good is it for something like that to survive death? It would not be "you" at all.

domatron23

And just like a program is separated from a computer a mind should be considered separate from a brain. Even though there's no obvious way at the moment to actually separate the mind from the body.

If we were to make the mind immortal by downloading and copying it, would it be the same person when the original subject is physically dead, or would it simply believe that it is the same person?CptJSparrow

I'd say that it would logically be the same person, although views and such would change once it realizes that its body has perished. However, if the mind could theoretically be downloaded, does this mean it could also be uploaded? To what?

I'd say that it would logically be the same person, although views and such would change once it realizes that its body has perished. However, if the mind could theoretically be downloaded, does this mean it could also be uploaded? To what?

Video_Game_King

Given a materialist view and the possibility of digitising the brain I would say yes. Although that brings up the whole clone dilemma and set of identity problems.

domatron23

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Wow I'm surprised at the amount of people who think that the mind is non-physical. I was under the false impression that most OTers were physicalists.

The main issue here seems to be the role that brain damage has on our mind- a point which suggests that, at the very least, the mind cannot function without the brain. The mind however, if it is a non-physical entity could simply be interacting with the brain, taking messages and interpreting external stimulus to arrive at intelligent thought. The main problem with this though is that when the brain is destroyed at death the mind would not continue to exist in any meaningful way. We can see that with a damaged brain intelligence and consciousness cease to exist. A dead brain therefore would entail a mind completely devoid of any mental capacity- what good is it for something like that to survive death? It would not be "you" at all.

Hungry_bunny

And just like a program is separated from a computer a mind should be considered separate from a brain. Even though there's no obvious way at the moment to actually separate the mind from the body.

Oh I agree that it's no proof for a physical mind. All I was doing there was throwing a spanner into the notion that the mind could function seperately from the brain if it is a non-physical thing.

As for the twins when a brain experiences something a physical network of neurons is set up in the brain to contain that information. So two people with different personalities actually boils down to a tangible difference in brain orginization.

Furthermore I'm not quite saying that the mind is identical to the brain, I'm just exploring the claim that it is physical in nature and contained within the brain's function. The idea of our mind is abstract and non-physical but the mind itself I think can be reduced to the workings of the brain. Cartesian dualists my think differently and that's why I'm inviting supernatural accounts for the mind.

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]

I'd say that it would logically be the same person, although views and such would change once it realizes that its body has perished. However, if the mind could theoretically be downloaded, does this mean it could also be uploaded? To what?

CptJSparrow

No, I mean if you can take it from the body to the computer, where would it go from the computer? A donor body, a robot, some piece of crap cell phone? And this brings up the problem of things being hacked, mucking up your memories.

Wow I'm surprised at the amount of people who think that the mind is non-physical. I was under the false impression that most OTers were physicalists.

The main issue here seems to be the role that brain damage has on our mind- a point which suggests that, at the very least, the mind cannot function without the brain. The mind however, if it is a non-physical entity could simply be interacting with the brain, taking messages and interpreting external stimulus to arrive at intelligent thought. The main problem with this though is that when the brain is destroyed at death the mind would not continue to exist in any meaningful way. We can see that with a damaged brain intelligence and consciousness cease to exist. A dead brain therefore would entail a mind completely devoid of any mental capacity- what good is it for something like that to survive death? It would not be "you" at all.

domatron23

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Given a materialist view and the possibility of digitising the brain I would say yes. Although that brings up the whole clone dilemma and set of identity problems.

CptJSparrow

But you're assuming that the mind would still be active after being taken from the body. Would that be true, or would it remain dormant until it is needed again?

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Given a materialist view and the possibility of digitising the brain I would say yes. Although that brings up the whole clone dilemma and set of identity problems.

CptJSparrow

Different but qualitatively identical. I don't really think that numerical identity is a prerequisite forsomething being the same as another. I'll take Leibniz's idea and run with it- if the uploaded"me" possesed every characteristic of my original mind then it would in fact be the same thing.

Different but qualitatively identical. I don't really think that numerical identity is a prerequisite forsomething being the same as another. I'll take Leibniz's idea and run with it- if the uploaded"me" possesed every characteristic of my original mind then it would in fact be the same thing.

domatron23

But you're assuming that the mind would still be active after being taken from the body. Would that be true, or would it remain dormant until it is needed again?

Video_Game_King

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]

I'd say that it would logically be the same person, although views and such would change once it realizes that its body has perished. However, if the mind could theoretically be downloaded, does this mean it could also be uploaded? To what?

Video_Game_King

No, I mean if you can take it from the body to the computer, where would it go from the computer? A donor body, a robot, some piece of crap cell phone? And this brings up the problem of things being hacked, mucking up your memories.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Different but qualitatively identical. I don't really think that numerical identity is a prerequisite forsomething being the same as another. I'll take Leibniz's idea and run with it- if the uploaded"me" possesed every characteristic of my original mind then it would in fact be the same thing.

CptJSparrow

I challenge your assumption wih the proposition that an object which is qualitatively identical to another is that very same object... albeit existing in more than one place and in more than one number.

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]

But you're assuming that the mind would still be active after being taken from the body. Would that be true, or would it remain dormant until it is needed again?

CptJSparrow

Function? Do you mean performing actions or just not dying?

I think the mind is what we really are, whereas the brain is just one of many parts of our physical existence.SolidSnake35

I'll agree. Identity lies with the mind.

I challenge your assumption wih the proposition that an object which is qualitatively identical to another is that very same object... albeit existing in more than one place and in more than one number.

domatron23

Function? Do you mean performing actions or just not dying?

Video_Game_King

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]I think the mind is what we really are, whereas the brain is just one of many parts of our physical existence.domatron23

I'll agree. Identity lies with the mind.

I agree to an extent. Environment and influence are also big factors on someones identity

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

I challenge your assumption wih the proposition that an object which is qualitatively identical to another is that very same object... albeit existing in more than one place and in more than one number.

CptJSparrow

If my mind existed in two places and those two places had identical environments then both minds would respond to external stimulus in the same way. Whether that involves moving your foot or feeling something yes, both minds would do the same thing.

If my mind existed in two places and those two places had identical environments then both minds would respond to external stimulus in the same way. Whether that involves moving your foot or feeling something yes, both minds would do the same thing.

domatron23

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

If my mind existed in two places and those two places had identical environments then both minds would respond to external stimulus in the same way. Whether that involves moving your foot or feeling something yes, both minds would do the same thing.

CptJSparrow

No I think i get what you're saying. My answer is that although the downloaded mind is a copy it is still the same as the original. Same in the sense that the copy and the one original have the exact same identity.

In any case what do you make of the interactionists claim that the mind simply works through the brain (accounting for the effect brain damage has on ones mind).

No I think i get what you're saying. My answer is that although the downloaded mind is a copy it is still the same as the original. Same in the sense that the copy and the one original have the exact same identity.

In any case what do you make of the interactionists claim that the mind simply works through the brain (accounting for the effect brain damage has on ones mind).

domatron23