Is the mind the brain?

Identity in this case meaning that which makes a person who they are. With the copies there would be two minds but just one person.domatron23

Well, maybe both.

Maybe the mind is the brain, but the brain itself can, of course, while us not aware of it, excede it's own phisicality. Maybe our brains are the source of the mind, but the mind is not in the brain, per se. Like, we have the power to excede this worlds phisicality, and exist out of it. But, being the brain the one thing that allows it.

What if, let us now go into stranger theories, whe do not have a single mind, but a massive earth mind, and each brain takes into itself and changes it along time? Like, the 100th monkey theory.

But, in simple terms, i believe the mind is in the brain. The brain is a very well designed biological computer. One day, mabe we will learn the source of the Logos and teach it to robots.

But what do i know, eh.

I haven't read all the posts, but we seem to be talking about personality being separate from the physical brain. Damage to the brain can dramatically alter a person's personality.

I kind of thing the mind is different to the brain, hence we have a different word for it. but there is evidence to suggest conciousness is just a trick and everything we do is unconcious, hence we are just a manifestation of our physical brains, (wiring and chemicals).

What I've found is kids are not born blank slates, their personalities are already there. What life throws at them will have an effect, but their already make up will dictate how they react to what life throws at them.

not exactly a Thesis quality post, but there you go.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]Identity in this case meaning that which makes a person who they are. With the copies there would be two minds but just one person.CptJSparrow

Again I don't think that spatial continuity is required for two things to be considered the sam. Nevertheless it's a difference of opinion not a matter of right and wrong so I'll leave it there.

What is the religious view on this. Is the spirit that allegedly survives death just another word for the non-physical mind? Or are they two different things.

Mind is not physical because is a gift from God. :)cyberdarkkid

Would intelligence and consciousness therefore be impossible for non-human animals and computers etc.

[QUOTE="Hungry_bunny"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

Wow I'm surprised at the amount of people who think that the mind is non-physical. I was under the false impression that most OTers were physicalists.

The main issue here seems to be the role that brain damage has on our mind- a point which suggests that, at the very least, the mind cannot function without the brain. The mind however, if it is a non-physical entity could simply be interacting with the brain, taking messages and interpreting external stimulus to arrive at intelligent thought. The main problem with this though is that when the brain is destroyed at death the mind would not continue to exist in any meaningful way. We can see that with a damaged brain intelligence and consciousness cease to exist. A dead brain therefore would entail a mind completely devoid of any mental capacity- what good is it for something like that to survive death? It would not be "you" at all.

domatron23

And just like a program is separated from a computer a mind should be considered separate from a brain. Even though there's no obvious way at the moment to actually separate the mind from the body.

Oh I agree that it's no proof for a physical mind. All I was doing there was throwing a spanner into the notion that the mind could function seperately from the brain if it is a non-physical thing.

As for the twins when a brain experiences something a physical network of neurons is set up in the brain to contain that information. So two people with different personalities actually boils down to a tangible difference in brain orginization.

Furthermore I'm not quite saying that the mind is identical to the brain, I'm just exploring the claim that it is physical in nature and contained within the brain's function. The idea of our mind is abstract and non-physical but the mind itself I think can be reduced to the workings of the brain. Cartesian dualists my think differently and that's why I'm inviting supernatural accounts for the mind.

Your argument about brain damage suggests that the mind is as fleeting as flesh. That's not to say that I subscribe to the Christian idea of the afterlife, however, I do not believe that physical decay (which is inevitable) means a decay of the spirit. There is something infinite just about the way we feel, and I have no reason to believe that a soul is extinguished when the body perishs, because it feels that the mind is not as subject to the physical world as one might at first think.
quiglythegreat

The meaning of what we think and feel may be immortal but I don't feel that the mind itself is. The brain damage argument just supports the idea that the mind is either a direct product of the brain or reliant on the brain to function- either one of which means that the mind can't exist without the brain unless a God intervenes. If the soul (being the agent responsible for intelligent thought and consciousness) transcends the physical then why do some people who suffer head trauma have compromised mental capacities.Is the soul being damaged?

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] Your argument about brain damage suggests that the mind is as fleeting as flesh. That's not to say that I subscribe to the Christian idea of the afterlife, however, I do not believe that physical decay (which is inevitable) means a decay of the spirit. There is something infinite just about the way we feel, and I have no reason to believe that a soul is extinguished when the body perishs, because it feels that the mind is not as subject to the physical world as one might at first think.
domatron23

The meaning of what we think and feel may be immortal but I don't feel that the mind itself is. The brain damage argument just supports the idea that the mind is either a direct product of the brain or reliant on the brain to function- either one of which means that the mind can't exist without the brain unless a God intervenes. If the soul (being the agent responsible for intelligent thought and consciousness) transcends the physical then why do some people who suffer head trauma have compromised mental capacities.Is the soul being damaged?

Not necessarily. Maybe the soul is forced to adjust itself to the limitations of this universe, the brain could be part of what forces the soul to adjust. Just like when you are playing a video game, you are forced by all kinds of limitations but those limitations have no direct effect on your mind, you are simply playing by the rules.

But just as usual. You can't prove or disprove anything, so believe whatever you want, as long as you don't hurt anyone.

Interesting poll results. It seems most people think the mind is non-physical, but in threads polling religious views, Atheism usually gets the most votes.UssjTrunks

Yeah I'm confused about that as well. I made a poll about naturalism vs supernaturalism once and the results were quite reversed- it's pretty much the same deal here but with an opposite outcome.

Quick question for everyone. Is a non-physical mind necessarily granted by God or does it arise some other way?

How i think of it is the brain is just like an organic computer, and the mind is the datas. And just like datas on a computer, it is physical even tho you can't see nor feel it.

Most people vote not physical because when they think physical they think of something they can see and feel

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] Your argument about brain damage suggests that the mind is as fleeting as flesh. That's not to say that I subscribe to the Christian idea of the afterlife, however, I do not believe that physical decay (which is inevitable) means a decay of the spirit. There is something infinite just about the way we feel, and I have no reason to believe that a soul is extinguished when the body perishs, because it feels that the mind is not as subject to the physical world as one might at first think.
domatron23

The meaning of what we think and feel may be immortal but I don't feel that the mind itself is. The brain damage argument just supports the idea that the mind is either a direct product of the brain or reliant on the brain to function- either one of which means that the mind can't exist without the brain unless a God intervenes. If the soul (being the agent responsible for intelligent thought and consciousness) transcends the physical then why do some people who suffer head trauma have compromised mental capacities.Is the soul being damaged?

[QUOTE="UssjTrunks"]Interesting poll results. It seems most people think the mind is non-physical, but in threads polling religious views, Atheism usually gets the most votes.domatron23

Yeah I'm confused about that as well. I made a poll about naturalism vs supernaturalism once and the results were quite reversed- it's pretty much the same deal here but with an opposite outcome.

Quick question for everyone. Is a non-physical mind necessarily granted by God or does it arise some other way?

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] Your argument about brain damage suggests that the mind is as fleeting as flesh. That's not to say that I subscribe to the Christian idea of the afterlife, however, I do not believe that physical decay (which is inevitable) means a decay of the spirit. There is something infinite just about the way we feel, and I have no reason to believe that a soul is extinguished when the body perishs, because it feels that the mind is not as subject to the physical world as one might at first think.
quiglythegreat

The meaning of what we think and feel may be immortal but I don't feel that the mind itself is. The brain damage argument just supports the idea that the mind is either a direct product of the brain or reliant on the brain to function- either one of which means that the mind can't exist without the brain unless a God intervenes. If the soul (being the agent responsible for intelligent thought and consciousness) transcends the physical then why do some people who suffer head trauma have compromised mental capacities.Is the soul being damaged?

??? I don't know how you concluded that from my post but okay. Are you trying to say that the soul is not responsible for intelligence and consciousness or just that it is uniform in every person. If it's the latter then I disagree, some people are markedly more intelligent than others.

Does your concept of an immortal soul have any reference outside of semantic content? ie does the soul actually persist in existence after death or is it just the meaning of your life and thoughts that remain.