Is the US a third world country?

Whatever. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to leave this craphole and move to Britain or Canada.

bigfootstew

Whatever. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to leave this craphole and move to Britain or Canada.

bigfootstew

Enjoy this "craphole". Because everyone I know that said they wanted to move to another country never actually did it.:P

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

I think in most ways that matter, it is:

-no universal health care

-deteriorating middle class

-huge disparity between the wealthy and poor

-pay to play politics, with politicians being shills for huge corporations

-crappy education system

-brutal, authoritarian police force

-massive, unnecessary military spending like we're going to fight WW2 all over again or something

Chrypt22

Most of the poor did it to themselves,most have a choice to better themselves through education and dont or didnt. So it is not my responsibility to give up my income that I worked hard for so they can live the same way. And no I am not rich, my wife and I fit in the middle class.

The middle class has only deteriotrated because the manufacturing industry has been sucked out of the country. It will take time for people to move towards something else, like IT for instance. And actually with the dollar as crappy as it is some of the manufacturing jobs are coming back.

Youre right our education system needs work, but it is getting better.

Authritarian police force?? People that riot need to have the s*** kicked out of them. Your insinuation behind that comment is ignorant.

healthcare needs reformed, though a universal healthcare system in this country would put hundreds of thousands of people out of jobs. There are other ways to do it... I have no problem paying for my healthcare, however, the system itself is flawed but why people think a government takeover would make it more efficient is beyond my comprehension.

We do spend a lot on military, with the weakening dollar it seems that we are spending more than we should, but if you take the massive inflation that the democrats, mainly Obama, and partly Bush's fault too, have created we have to spend more money causeits not worth as much. Also, you are forgetting that the military provides a lot to our economy..

Socialistic ideologies that promote spreading wealth is counter productive and reduces people's incentive to become educated and successful. Take France for example.... that place is a complete mess. Its a perfect example how a socialistic society does not work.

Unless you consider having the best healthcare system in the world and a much higher standard of living "a mess" I really have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to France.

Whatever. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to leave this craphole and move to Britain or Canada.

bigfootstew

Just a honest question... how old are you? Seriously... because you come off to be an angry teenager that has no idea what he/she is talking about. If you think its a craphole then leave. Ive been to Canada several times... its not a bad country but dont think for one second they dont have their problems too. Sure they dont have income tax... but umm, the sales tax is huge if not epic. Why do you think a lot of them come to the US to buy their cars.

Britain.. not a bad coun try either, you wont have many rights but its not a bad country. From the sound of it, you would be more suited for North Korea, Iran, Syriaor better yet just killing yourself entirely.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Whatever. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to leave this craphole and move to Britain or Canada.

Chrypt22

Just a honest question... how old are you? Seriously... because you come off to be an angry teenager that has no idea what he/she is talking about. If you think its a craphole then leave. Ive been to Canada several times... its not a bad country but dont think for one second they dont have their problems too. Sure they dont have income tax... but umm, the sales tax is huge if not epic. Why do you think a lot of them come to the US to buy their cars.

Britain.. not a bad coun try either, you wont have many rights but its not a bad country. From the sound of it, you would be more suited for North Korea, Iran, Syriaor better yet just killing yourself entirely.

Somebody loves their America!!!!!!!

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

I think in most ways that matter, it is:

-no universal health care

-deteriorating middle class

-huge disparity between the wealthy and poor

-pay to play politics, with politicians being shills for huge corporations

-crappy education system

-brutal, authoritarian police force

-massive, unnecessary military spending like we're going to fight WW2 all over again or something

bigfootstew

Most of the poor did it to themselves,most have a choice to better themselves through education and dont or didnt. So it is not my responsibility to give up my income that I worked hard for so they can live the same way. And no I am not rich, my wife and I fit in the middle class.

The middle class has only deteriotrated because the manufacturing industry has been sucked out of the country. It will take time for people to move towards something else, like IT for instance. And actually with the dollar as crappy as it is some of the manufacturing jobs are coming back.

Youre right our education system needs work, but it is getting better.

Authritarian police force?? People that riot need to have the s*** kicked out of them. Your insinuation behind that comment is ignorant.

healthcare needs reformed, though a universal healthcare system in this country would put hundreds of thousands of people out of jobs. There are other ways to do it... I have no problem paying for my healthcare, however, the system itself is flawed but why people think a government takeover would make it more efficient is beyond my comprehension.

We do spend a lot on military, with the weakening dollar it seems that we are spending more than we should, but if you take the massive inflation that the democrats, mainly Obama, and partly Bush's fault too, have created we have to spend more money causeits not worth as much. Also, you are forgetting that the military provides a lot to our economy..

Socialistic ideologies that promote spreading wealth is counter productive and reduces people's incentive to become educated and successful. Take France for example.... that place is a complete mess. Its a perfect example how a socialistic society does not work.

Unless you consider having the best healthcare system in the world and a much higher standard of living "a mess" I really have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to France.

You really are ignorant. France's economic system is about to colapse becausewhat the socialistic agenda imposes on companies. In additon to the economic problems the massive social problems. Here read this, and this is only part of the problem:http://www.economicshelp.org/2007/03/economic-problems-of-european-union.html

Our healthcare system is far from perfect but its far from a complete mess. People under 25 can still get free healthcare and there are other options. Healthcare isnt as unafordable as the media makes it out to be. This sense of entitlement people have theses days is sickening, no one is entitled to crap. With that said, yeah, things need to change and it can happen but this magical government take over that people are pushing for is not the answer.

No its just a bad country

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Whatever. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to leave this craphole and move to Britain or Canada.

peaceoutmedusa

Just a honest question... how old are you? Seriously... because you come off to be an angry teenager that has no idea what he/she is talking about. If you think its a craphole then leave. Ive been to Canada several times... its not a bad country but dont think for one second they dont have their problems too. Sure they dont have income tax... but umm, the sales tax is huge if not epic. Why do you think a lot of them come to the US to buy their cars.

Britain.. not a bad coun try either, you wont have many rights but its not a bad country. From the sound of it, you would be more suited for North Korea, Iran, Syriaor better yet just killing yourself entirely.

Somebody loves their America!!!!!!!

Since when did having pride for your country become a bad thing? I was not stating we are better than everyone else, more to point out that others have their problems too just as we do. The grass isnt always greener on the other side.

Is this a joke?

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Whatever. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to leave this craphole and move to Britain or Canada.

Chrypt22

Just a honest question... how old are you? Seriously... because you come off to be an angry teenager that has no idea what he/she is talking about. If you think its a craphole then leave. Ive been to Canada several times... its not a bad country but dont think for one second they dont have their problems too. Sure they dont have income tax... but umm, the sales tax is huge if not epic. Why do you think a lot of them come to the US to buy their cars.

Britain.. not a bad coun try either, you wont have many rights but its not a bad country. From the sound of it, you would be more suited for North Korea, Iran, Syriaor better yet just killing yourself entirely.

I'm not an angsty teenager. I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for me.

In fact, with how shamefully we've behaved post 9/11 I kind of want to take a dump on an american flag.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

Most of the poor did it to themselves,most have a choice to better themselves through education and dont or didnt. So it is not my responsibility to give up my income that I worked hard for so they can live the same way. And no I am not rich, my wife and I fit in the middle class.

The middle class has only deteriotrated because the manufacturing industry has been sucked out of the country. It will take time for people to move towards something else, like IT for instance. And actually with the dollar as crappy as it is some of the manufacturing jobs are coming back.

Youre right our education system needs work, but it is getting better.

Authritarian police force?? People that riot need to have the s*** kicked out of them. Your insinuation behind that comment is ignorant.

healthcare needs reformed, though a universal healthcare system in this country would put hundreds of thousands of people out of jobs. There are other ways to do it... I have no problem paying for my healthcare, however, the system itself is flawed but why people think a government takeover would make it more efficient is beyond my comprehension.

We do spend a lot on military, with the weakening dollar it seems that we are spending more than we should, but if you take the massive inflation that the democrats, mainly Obama, and partly Bush's fault too, have created we have to spend more money causeits not worth as much. Also, you are forgetting that the military provides a lot to our economy..

Socialistic ideologies that promote spreading wealth is counter productive and reduces people's incentive to become educated and successful. Take France for example.... that place is a complete mess. Its a perfect example how a socialistic society does not work.

Chrypt22

Unless you consider having the best healthcare system in the world and a much higher standard of living "a mess" I really have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to France.

You really are ignorant. France's economic system is about to colapse becausewhat the socialistic agenda imposes on companies. In additon to the economic problems the massive social problems. Here read this, and this is only part of the problem:http://www.economicshelp.org/2007/03/economic-problems-of-european-union.html

Our healthcare system is far from perfect but its far from a complete mess. People under 25 can still get free healthcare and there are other options. Healthcare isnt as unafordable as the media makes it out to be. This sense of entitlement people have theses days is sickening, no one is entitled to crap. With that said, yeah, things need to change and it can happen but this magical government take over that people are pushing for is not the answer.

Healthcare is a basic human right. It has nothing to do with entitlement. It's a human rights issue.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"]

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

Just a honest question... how old are you? Seriously... because you come off to be an angry teenager that has no idea what he/she is talking about. If you think its a craphole then leave. Ive been to Canada several times... its not a bad country but dont think for one second they dont have their problems too. Sure they dont have income tax... but umm, the sales tax is huge if not epic. Why do you think a lot of them come to the US to buy their cars.

Britain.. not a bad coun try either, you wont have many rights but its not a bad country. From the sound of it, you would be more suited for North Korea, Iran, Syriaor better yet just killing yourself entirely.

Chrypt22

Somebody loves their America!!!!!!!

Since when did having pride for your country become a bad thing? I was not stating we are better than everyone else, more to point out that others have their problems too just as we do. The grass isnt always greener on the other side.

It was just a joke. Calm down.

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Unless you consider having the best healthcare system in the world and a much higher standard of living "a mess" I really have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to France.

You really are ignorant. France's economic system is about to colapse becausewhat the socialistic agenda imposes on companies. In additon to the economic problems the massive social problems. Here read this, and this is only part of the problem:http://www.economicshelp.org/2007/03/economic-problems-of-european-union.html

Our healthcare system is far from perfect but its far from a complete mess. People under 25 can still get free healthcare and there are other options. Healthcare isnt as unafordable as the media makes it out to be. This sense of entitlement people have theses days is sickening, no one is entitled to crap. With that said, yeah, things need to change and it can happen but this magical government take over that people are pushing for is not the answer.

Healthcare is a basic human right. It has nothing to do with entitlement. It's a human rights issue.

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Whatever. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to leave this craphole and move to Britain or Canada.

bigfootstew

Just a honest question... how old are you? Seriously... because you come off to be an angry teenager that has no idea what he/she is talking about. If you think its a craphole then leave. Ive been to Canada several times... its not a bad country but dont think for one second they dont have their problems too. Sure they dont have income tax... but umm, the sales tax is huge if not epic. Why do you think a lot of them come to the US to buy their cars.

Britain.. not a bad coun try either, you wont have many rights but its not a bad country. From the sound of it, you would be more suited for North Korea, Iran, Syriaor better yet just killing yourself entirely.

I'm not an angsty teenager. I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for me.

In fact, with how shamefully we've behaved post 9/11 I kind of want to take a dump on an american flag.

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Unless you consider having the best healthcare system in the world and a much higher standard of living "a mess" I really have no idea what you're talking about when you refer to France.

bigfootstew

You really are ignorant. France's economic system is about to colapse becausewhat the socialistic agenda imposes on companies. In additon to the economic problems the massive social problems. Here read this, and this is only part of the problem:http://www.economicshelp.org/2007/03/economic-problems-of-european-union.html

Our healthcare system is far from perfect but its far from a complete mess. People under 25 can still get free healthcare and there are other options. Healthcare isnt as unafordable as the media makes it out to be. This sense of entitlement people have theses days is sickening, no one is entitled to crap. With that said, yeah, things need to change and it can happen but this magical government take over that people are pushing for is not the answer.

Healthcare is a basic human right. It has nothing to do with entitlement. It's a human rights issue.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Healthcare is a basic human right. It has nothing to do with entitlement. It's a human rights issue.

peaceoutmedusa

I hope you realize that almost anyone who wants healthcare has healthcare, and there is medicaid. The availability is not the problem, it's the cost. I also honestly don't understand why people want the guys who run the post office/DMV/S.S./Medicare to start running the healthcare system.

Uh, considering that, technically, the definition of the term "first world" is "the United States and its allies", it is quite literally impossible for the United States to be anything other than first world. :P

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

Just a honest question... how old are you? Seriously... because you come off to be an angry teenager that has no idea what he/she is talking about. If you think its a craphole then leave. Ive been to Canada several times... its not a bad country but dont think for one second they dont have their problems too. Sure they dont have income tax... but umm, the sales tax is huge if not epic. Why do you think a lot of them come to the US to buy their cars.

Britain.. not a bad coun try either, you wont have many rights but its not a bad country. From the sound of it, you would be more suited for North Korea, Iran, Syriaor better yet just killing yourself entirely.

xaos

I'm not an angsty teenager. I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for me.

In fact, with how shamefully we've behaved post 9/11 I kind of want to take a dump on an american flag.

Why because I'm not patriotic? Because I hate this country and think it basically sucks? What exactly do I have to be patriotic about?

Last time I checked no on can be denied healthcare, and its easy as hell to get on medicare. I fail to see the masses dying because they cant get healthcare. A lot of homeless have medicare... If kids do not have healthcare its the parent fault for not providing it since it is FREE.

Dont feed me the lies you guys have bought into...

Why because I'm not patriotic? Because I hate this country and think it basically sucks? What exactly do I have to be patriotic about?

bigfootstew

No offense, but I have a feeling that if you actually spent an extended period of time in an actual developing country, you would quickly come to recognize just how good life is in the United States.

I find it awfully funny I got moderated on SW for generalizing new yorkers yet people are generalizing african countries but nothing, oh well.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"]

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Healthcare is a basic human right. It has nothing to do with entitlement. It's a human rights issue.

I hope you realize that almost anyone who wants healthcare has healthcare, and there is medicaid. The availability is not the problem, it's the cost. I also honestly don't understand why people want the guys who run the post office/DMV/S.S./Medicare to start running the healthcare system.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

I'm not an angsty teenager. I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for me.

In fact, with how shamefully we've behaved post 9/11 I kind of want to take a dump on an american flag.

Why because I'm not patriotic? Because I hate this country and think it basically sucks? What exactly do I have to be patriotic about?

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

I'm not an angsty teenager. I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for me.

In fact, with how shamefully we've behaved post 9/11 I kind of want to take a dump on an american flag.

bigfootstew

Why because I'm not patriotic? Because I hate this country and think it basically sucks? What exactly do I have to be patriotic about?

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Why because I'm not patriotic? Because I hate this country and think it basically sucks? What exactly do I have to be patriotic about?

GabuEx

No offense, but I have a feeling that if you actually spent an extended period of time in an actual developing country, you would quickly come to recognize just how good life is in the United States.

I spent a month in South America. Still not impressed with the US.

The greed and corruption in this country sickens me to my very core.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

You really are ignorant. France's economic system is about to colapse becausewhat the socialistic agenda imposes on companies. In additon to the economic problems the massive social problems. Here read this, and this is only part of the problem:http://www.economicshelp.org/2007/03/economic-problems-of-european-union.html

Our healthcare system is far from perfect but its far from a complete mess. People under 25 can still get free healthcare and there are other options. Healthcare isnt as unafordable as the media makes it out to be. This sense of entitlement people have theses days is sickening, no one is entitled to crap. With that said, yeah, things need to change and it can happen but this magical government take over that people are pushing for is not the answer.

DEVILinIRON

Healthcare is a basic human right. It has nothing to do with entitlement. It's a human rights issue.

yep, funny thing is, this vid that I saw 5 minutes ago is exactly what you were talking about. wow.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWOoa76ELe8

I spent a month in South America. Still not impressed with the US.

bigfootstew

Where in South America, specifically? By which I mean city and country.

The greed and corruption in this country sickens me to my very core.

bigfootstew

The greed and corruption in America is, frankly, nothing compared to most real developing countries.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

I spent a month in South America. Still not impressed with the US.

GabuEx

Where in South America, specifically? By which I mean city and country.

The greed and corruption in this country sickens me to my very core.

bigfootstew

The greed and corruption in America is, frankly, nothing compared to most real developing countries.

Chile and Argentina. Mostly Santiago.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

Why because I'm not patriotic? Because I hate this country and think it basically sucks? What exactly do I have to be patriotic about?

GabuEx

No offense, but I have a feeling that if you actually spent an extended period of time in an actual developing country, you would quickly come to recognize just how good life is in the United States.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

I'm not an angsty teenager. I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for me.

In fact, with how shamefully we've behaved post 9/11 I kind of want to take a dump on an american flag.

bigfootstew

Why because I'm not patriotic? Because I hate this country and think it basically sucks? What exactly do I have to be patriotic about?

wow... the things people take foregranted. The thing is I really feel sorry for people like you... you cant come up with one intelligent thought. The whole comment of crapping on the American flag...

What has the US done to make your life so bad? It seems to me you are either here trolling trying to piss people off or you are a deeply disturbed human being that needs help. You dont have to like this country, feel patriotic for it, or anything.. because its a free country. But you cant even come up with one reason why you hate this country, and everything you have said is ignorant at best.

I wonder what would happen if you were in China and you said you wanted to poop on their flag...

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] If you are not a teenager, I may cryChrypt22

Why because I'm not patriotic? Because I hate this country and think it basically sucks? What exactly do I have to be patriotic about?

wow... the things people take foregranted. The thing is I really feel sorry for people like you... you cant come up with one intelligent thought. The whole comment of crapping on the American flag...

What has the US done to make your life so bad? It seems to me you are either here trolling trying to piss people off or you are a deeply disturbed human being that needs help. You dont have to like this country, feel patriotic for it, or anything.. because its a free country. But you cant even come up with one reason why you hate this country, and everything you have said is ignorant at best.

I wonder what would happen if you were in China and you said you wanted to poop on their flag...

I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for mebigfootstew

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

I spent a month in South America. Still not impressed with the US.

GabuEx

Where in South America, specifically? By which I mean city and country.

The greed and corruption in this country sickens me to my very core.

bigfootstew

The greed and corruption in America is, frankly, nothing compared to most real developing countries.

This I can agree with, our minister of finance was literally guilty for insider trading and she still has her position and money...infact all of our politicians are down right crooks with squeezing the country out of it's wealth using construction projects.

Chile and Argentina.

bigfootstew

Which are ranked at 0.878 and 0.866, respectively, on the Human Development Index, which solidly place them near the top of the list of countries with high human development.

I'm talking about Rwanda, Ethiopia, Niger, the Congo: places where humans regularly starving to death and ridiculous tinpot dictators are just a fact of life. You want to talk "third world country", you're talking about that. The US is not perfect, but come on, get a little perspective.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for meandyboiii

That's a very stupid statement, you should be asking both questions imo. You can't be giving to the state and the state turning around and stomping on you.

3rd world country is a misused term that actually relates to a countries lack of alignment between communism or capitalism.
A better term is developing country, though this is still a very loosely defined term.

The U.S. is ranked # 6 in the world by GDP at PPP per capita, which means the amount of goods and services that the average household can purchase when factoring the effect of the dollar versus a basket of world currencies.
Is this the median value? No. But It's a pretty decent statistical indicator.
Is there a lack of social safety nets in the U.S. versus other post industrial countries? Yes, but we are leaps and bounds away from the destitution that exists in impoverished countries.

Really??? over 40 million people dont have healthcare.peaceoutmedusa

Sounds terrible but that is about 14% of our population. Some of those people choose not to have health insurance. The big reason why 40 million people don't have health insurance is because of the cost of premiums.

The cost is so high because no one cares about the cost of a doctor's visit or a checkup. If the patient doesn't care and the doctor doesn't care about the price of a procedure, then why can't a $20 visit become a $100 visit? Heck, throw in some extra unnecessary tests and procedures. Why not? No one cares how much it costs. Ever notice how a doctor's visit can be 30-40% cheaper if you pay yourself? The price inflation of all these procedures have a negative impact on people's premiums.

Obviously the system is very bad, but the solution isn't to have government-mandated health insurance for all.

[QUOTE="andyboiii"][QUOTE="bigfootstew"]I just don't see what's so great about this country or what it's ever really done for meEspada12

That's a very stupid statement, you should be asking both questions imo. You can't be giving to the state and the state turning around and stomping on you.

Give me an example of where the state has "stomped" on you.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"]Really??? over 40 million people dont have healthcare.MagicMan4597

Sounds terrible but that is about 14% of our population. Some of those people choose not to have health insurance. The big reason why 40 million people don't have health insurance is because of the cost of premiums.

The cost is so high because no one cares about the cost of a doctor's visit or a checkup. If the patient doesn't care and the doctor doesn't care about the price of a procedure, then why can't a $20 visit become a $100 visit? Heck, throw in some extra unnecessary tests and procedures. Why not? No one cares how much it costs. Ever notice how a doctor's visit can be 30-40% cheaper if you pay yourself? The price inflation of all these procedures have a negative impact on people's premiums.

Obviously the system is very bad, but the solution isn't to have government-mandated health insurance for all.

This. Also, some of those people self insure, or just havent put in the work to get free healthcare. Not my problem nor yours.

And no one can be denied healthcare...

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="andyboiii"] "ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"Chrypt22

That's a very stupid statement, you should be asking both questions imo. You can't be giving to the state and the state turning around and stomping on you.

Give me an example of where the state has "stomped" on you.

Drafting? Tax increases? Repossessing land if you are in the path of a planned highway? I'm not referring to myself obviously except for the tax part.

What a ridiculously asinine argument.

I live in a poor country (though I'm American). I have friends whose families live on about a dollar or two a day. You want to see all those problems in action? Come here- I'll be happy to show you. Oh, and hilariously enough, it's one of the countries in green on your little map...so by your standard, they're better than us. It's clear to me that you've never actually traveled to other places (and no, visitng the capital city of any country doesn't count as those are always the most developed of the whole country if it's a poor country).

I remember my first time coming here was when I was a student in 2005. One of the other girls hated George W Bush, who had just been reelected. After being here for several weeks and seeing the things we did, she concluded that the US isn't that bad at all, even under a president which she hated.

[QUOTE="MagicMan4597"]

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"]Really??? over 40 million people dont have healthcare.Chrypt22

Sounds terrible but that is about 14% of our population. Some of those people choose not to have health insurance. The big reason why 40 million people don't have health insurance is because of the cost of premiums.

The cost is so high because no one cares about the cost of a doctor's visit or a checkup. If the patient doesn't care and the doctor doesn't care about the price of a procedure, then why can't a $20 visit become a $100 visit? Heck, throw in some extra unnecessary tests and procedures. Why not? No one cares how much it costs. Ever notice how a doctor's visit can be 30-40% cheaper if you pay yourself? The price inflation of all these procedures have a negative impact on people's premiums.

Obviously the system is very bad, but the solution isn't to have government-mandated health insurance for all.

This. Also, some of those people self insure, or just havent put in the work to get free healthcare. Not my problem nor yours.

And no one can be denied healthcare...

No they're just handed a bill that will financially ruin them for life.

Which is why tens of thousands each year wait to seek treatment until it's too late.

[QUOTE="peaceoutmedusa"]Really??? over 40 million people dont have healthcare.MagicMan4597

Sounds terrible but that is about 14% of our population. Some of those people choose not to have health insurance. The big reason why 40 million people don't have health insurance is because of the cost of premiums.

The cost is so high because no one cares about the cost of a doctor's visit or a checkup. If the patient doesn't care and the doctor doesn't care about the price of a procedure, then why can't a $20 visit become a $100 visit? Heck, throw in some extra unnecessary tests and procedures. Why not? No one cares how much it costs. Ever notice how a doctor's visit can be 30-40% cheaper if you pay yourself? The price inflation of all these procedures have a negative impact on people's premiums.

Obviously the system is very bad, but the solution isn't to have government-mandated health insurance for all.

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

That's a very stupid statement, you should be asking both questions imo. You can't be giving to the state and the state turning around and stomping on you.

Espada12

Give me an example of where the state has "stomped" on you.

Drafting? Tax increases? Repossessing land if you are in the path of a planned highway? I'm not referring to myself obviously except for the tax part.

I hate paying taxes... and yeah tax increases suck. I will say if Cap and Trade gets passed then yes... that will be stomping on people.However, the taxes in this counrty are fairly avg or less then what other people of diffrerent nations pay. Vietnam was the last draft and just about every country has a draft and some even require you to be a part of the military for a set number of years. Reposessing land for highways... yea, I guess i can give you that one but I've known a person that it happened to. They were compensated very well though so I dont feel that bad. Everything you wrote happens in just about every other country... so I fail to see why the US is worse than everyone else.

Im gonna go out on a limb and say you are very conservative, or Libertarian... just curious. I myself am veryfiscally conservative and socially moderate..

What a ridiculously asinine argument.

I live in a poor country (though I'm American). I have friends whose families live on about a dollar or two a day. You want to see all those problems in action? Come here- I'll be happy to show you. Oh, and hilariously enough, it's one of the countries in green on your little map...so by your standard, they're better than us. It's clear to me that you've never actually traveled to other places (and no, visitng the capital city of any country doesn't count as those are always the most developed of the whole country if it's a poor country).

I remember my first time coming here was when I was a student in 2005. One of the other girls hated George W Bush, who had just been reelected. After being here for several weeks and seeing the things we did, she concluded that the US isn't that bad at all, even under a president which she hated.

LongZhiZi

Great. The US is slightly better than living in a third world hellhole. But compared to Western Europe and Canada, it is a third world hellhole.

I guess we should just settle with being way behind the rest of the developed world.

And meritocracy is awesome. Screw those poor people. It's their fault for being so poor and not having health insurance.

From what you see on the TV show "Cops", you'd definatley think so.

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

[QUOTE="MagicMan4597"]

Sounds terrible but that is about 14% of our population. Some of those people choose not to have health insurance. The big reason why 40 million people don't have health insurance is because of the cost of premiums.

The cost is so high because no one cares about the cost of a doctor's visit or a checkup. If the patient doesn't care and the doctor doesn't care about the price of a procedure, then why can't a $20 visit become a $100 visit? Heck, throw in some extra unnecessary tests and procedures. Why not? No one cares how much it costs. Ever notice how a doctor's visit can be 30-40% cheaper if you pay yourself? The price inflation of all these procedures have a negative impact on people's premiums.

Obviously the system is very bad, but the solution isn't to have government-mandated health insurance for all.

bigfootstew

This. Also, some of those people self insure, or just havent put in the work to get free healthcare. Not my problem nor yours.

And no one can be denied healthcare...

No they're just handed a bill that will financially ruin them for life.

Which is why tens of thousands each year wait to seek treatment until it's too late.

Umm no. Dont try and BS me, I worked as a paramedic for some time, I know the flaws and how it works. People that are extremely poor and cant afford it are not handed a bill for thousands of dollars. People that cant afford healthcare can get healthcare... for FREE. And to be honest its so easy to get it, that I even saw people that drove expensive cars and lived very well have medicare/ medicaid.

No they're just handed a bill that will financially ruin them for life.

bigfootstew

Funny, I don't remember insurance companies forcing people to buy their insurance. Again, I have already stated the cost of premiums is inflated. Not entirely the fault of insurance companies. At the end of the day, they have to make a profit. If they're getting billed for excess medical procedures, guess what they're gonna do? Raise premiums.

As for this new bill they're trying to pass, it won't alleviate anything. In fact, it will make consumers even more blind to the healthcare market since it will require that unnecessary procedures be covered. Also gets rid of health savings accounts which were the only real hope for a fix to this mess.

[QUOTE="bigfootstew"]

[QUOTE="Chrypt22"]

This. Also, some of those people self insure, or just havent put in the work to get free healthcare. Not my problem nor yours.

And no one can be denied healthcare...

Chrypt22

No they're just handed a bill that will financially ruin them for life.

Which is why tens of thousands each year wait to seek treatment until it's too late.

Umm no. Dont try and BS me, I worked as a paramedic for some time, I know the flaws and how it works. People that are extremely poor and cant afford it are not handed a bill for thousands of dollars. People that cant afford healthcare can get healthcare... for FREE. And to be honest its so easy to get it, that I even saw people that drove expensive cars and lived very well have medicare/ medicaid.

Medicare/medicaid patients get treated like crap in a hospital setting. They're relegated to the back of the line.

Also yes, if you get seriously ill with no health insurance, they will treat you, but you'll be handed a bill for thousands of dollars and hounded by bill collectors if you don't pay. Hospitals don't just give you a break.

A ride in the ambulance is about $5000, and a trip on the trauma hawk is upwards of $15000. No way you can afford that without insurance.