Is the USA a lost cause?

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Thing is, even with those policies considered to be determined by the election, the job market won't magically return to normal Q2 2011. Furthermore, the bill may very well pass in a Republican congress with modifications, (as they want to be "the party that got America out of the recession) or get filibustered in a Democratic congress because "the Democrats are trying to destroy America with debt." Neither potential outcomes of the election provide significant answers to levels of uncertainty already associated with governmental behavior.

Ultimas_Blade

:) As I said, I'm not talking astronomical, just better than what we're going through now. Those outcomes are what I will expect to happen as well. And although I understand the use, I believe 'uncertainty' is loosing it's meaning as it's being thrown around left and right, even though many corps are doing well and just not hiring or giving loans.

Full recovery by Q2 would be nothing less than astronomical. To some degree, I suppose that the elections play some level of further uncertainty being cast on the market concerning what Washington will be doing in the future, causing hesitation to act by businesses and such. I do think that uncertainty plays a huge, huge role in economic recovery, and I think that it shouldn't be ignored. Businesses may be holding their own in the market, but they're not expanding yet, since that would be a gamble.

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Thing is, even with those policies considered to be determined by the election, the job market won't magically return to normal Q2 2011. Furthermore, the bill may very well pass in a Republican congress with modifications, (as they want to be "the party that got America out of the recession) or get filibustered in a Democratic congress because "the Democrats are trying to destroy America with debt." Neither potential outcomes of the election provide significant answers to levels of uncertainty already associated with governmental behavior.

coolbeans90

:) As I said, I'm not talking astronomical, just better than what we're going through now. Those outcomes are what I will expect to happen as well. And although I understand the use, I believe 'uncertainty' is loosing it's meaning as it's being thrown around left and right, even though many corps are doing well and just not hiring or giving loans.

Full recovery by Q2 would be nothing less than astronomical. To some degree, I suppose that the elections play some level of further uncertainty being cast on the market concerning what Washington will be doing in the future. And I do think that uncertainty plays a huge, huge role in economic recovery. Businesses may be holding their own in the market, but they're not expanding yet, since that would be a gamble.

Did I ever say full recovery? I never said or meant that in my previous posts.

The money is so concentrated near the top of the spectrum Big Businesses are scared to spend/loan it. Real small businesses can't getloans from banks that are doing awfully well, and when there is talk of raising taxes (in order topay fortax cuts for actual small businesses)on those upper levels of earners they balk. It's entirely self defeating for the economy for an extremely small amount of people to hoard an extremely large portion of the wealth.

Honestly it seems that all they want to do is play on the Wall Street :(.

[QUOTE="Metal_Mario99"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]Haha. Republicans. Holding back jobs to make Obama look bad. lolUltimas_Blade

Republicans don't need to do anything to make Obama look bad. Obama does that all by himself.

Working to correct the problem vs. sitting on your hands...I'd say it's the Republicans with egg on their face. Read the sig if you don't get my intended message.

Obama is working to correct problems? It looks to me like he's just making a damn mess of everything he touches.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Ultimas_Blade"]

:) As I said, I'm not talking astronomical, just better than what we're going through now. Those outcomes are what I will expect to happen as well. And although I understand the use, I believe 'uncertainty' is loosing it's meaning as it's being thrown around left and right, even though many corps are doing well and just not hiring or giving loans.

Ultimas_Blade

Full recovery by Q2 would be nothing less than astronomical. To some degree, I suppose that the elections play some level of further uncertainty being cast on the market concerning what Washington will be doing in the future. And I do think that uncertainty plays a huge, huge role in economic recovery. Businesses may be holding their own in the market, but they're not expanding yet, since that would be a gamble.

Did I ever say full recovery? I never said or meant that in my previous posts.

The money is so concentrated near the top of the spectrum Big Businesses are scared to spend/loan it. Real small businesses can't getloans from banks that are doing awfully well, and when there is talk of raising taxes (in order topay fortax cuts for actual small businesses)on those upper levels of earners they balk. It's entirely self defeating for the economy for an extremely small amount of people to hoard an extremely large portion of the wealth.

Honestly it seems that all they want to do is play on the Wall Street :(.

Actually small businesses aren't doing that badly. However there for a while has been a fear of a double dip recession, as well as the fear that it is too soon to expand as the market (consumers) aren't ready yet. Of course there are some businesses that would like loans, but I'd certainly say that the larger problems are consumer confidence.(and the perception of a lack of consumer confidence brings us back to where businesses don't want to expand, and not expanding = not hiring new people etc...)

Obama is working to correct problems? It looks to me like he's just making a damn mess of everything he touches.

Metal_Mario99

Explain this: Private Sector Jobs Loss/Growth (Red is under Bush, Blue is under Obama)

I definitely think the US is headed in the wrong direction, but we'll bounce back. We've done it before in even worse times than these. And to be honest, I kinda get tired of hearing statements that this country is finished when we battle with such difficult decisions as "do I want Digital Cable Premium, or should I just go with Direct Tv?"

I think we will bounce back, though it will probably be awhile before that happens.

I hear the world wont be a pretty place for awhile if the US goes down.Fuhgeddabouditt

Also, why give up on this contry?

Lets not lose hope, one of these days someone will come by with a great idea that will fix America's financial problems and maybe even our other problems that are possibly fixable.

What bothers me is how people lose hope so easily. If you dont like what is going on in the country that you are living in, such as America, do something to fix that problem(s). Be that guy/ girl that I was talking about in my above statement. Be the one who comes up with the big fix(es) for America. Saying the USA is a lost cause, actually saying that any contry is a lost cause is horrible. That is just like trying to help someone in need, and then when something goes wrong, like the person loses their job and its been months, maybe even a year or so and are still unemployed, and you say "Im sorry, but you are a lost cause, it is obvious that things are not going to get better for you, and I cant help you anymore (or at all)." Sorry if what I said above makes no sense, but what Im saying is that, instead ofbelieving that America is a lost cause, why not propose some new ideas (especially if you live here and have some idea of how things work around here) and concepts that could possible make all of our problems a thing of the past.

I myself andIm sure even some of you guyshave some ideas that could possibly one day, fix our problems, maybe even the world's problems. But we will see about that in due time.

Lets not lose hope. We might be down, but we are far from being out or in this casea lost cause.

usa as a whole should learn that usa is not the best, and its only alive now because of china.

Why do you think we are investing so much money into things like green technology, healthcare, education, and roads? We won't be the richest country, but we an set ourselves up for the future for the best standard of living, thus giving people reason to come here and we will once again be on top. It will just take a while.

Make no mistake there is no magical button we can press to get us back on top. It will take many years (of hardwork) of investing in the right things and bidding our time. Only then will we be able to be back on top. Perhaps 20 years in the future when I'm in my forties the US will be back because good investments will have been made.

Why do you think we are investing so much money into things like green technology, healthcare, education, and roads? We won't be the richest country, but we an set ourselves up for the future for the best standard of living, thus giving people reason to come here and we will once again be on top. It will just take a while.

Serraph105

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

Why do you think we are investing so much money into things like green technology, healthcare, education, and roads? We won't be the richest country, but we an set ourselves up for the future for the best standard of living, thus giving people reason to come here and we will once again be on top. It will just take a while.

MoonMarvel

It's not a lost cause quite yet... hopefully it becomes more stable.

Why do you think we are investing so much money into things like green technology, healthcare, education, and roads? We won't be the richest country, but we an set ourselves up for the future for the best standard of living, thus giving people reason to come here and we will once again be on top. It will just take a while.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]EU has a good standard of living, they could get that anywhere. There are too many stupid people here preventing us from competing in the world. We can't even get stem cell research done right. I had a feeling this country was a lost cause and not worth fighting for or defending, the past 24 hours just confirmed it. You need a reason to be proud of your nation, blind patriotism is nationalism. MoonMarvel

yeah I actually feel that way a lot. I think a lot of it stems from most of the world running in a very high speed. We have service garrunteed to be accomplished by a certain time almost everywhere nowadays. We have the internet going at incredible speed to the point where people sigh if it takes twenty seconds for a website to load.

Because of this it's in no way surprising to me that people want the country and economy to bounce back far quicker than it possibly can.

The USA is far from a lost cause. We're not even doing that poorly when looking at the global economy. Yes, we've seen better days, but to say we're a "lost cause" is simply laughable. What exact problem has you so concerned with the state of our country OP? Please. Tell me.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

Why do you think we are investing so much money into things like green technology, healthcare, education, and roads? We won't be the richest country, but we an set ourselves up for the future for the best standard of living, thus giving people reason to come here and we will once again be on top. It will just take a while.

Metal_Mario99

If you can't dig deep and come up with one single reason to be proud of America, then you deserve to be stuck in the level of pessimism and hopelessness you're obviously experiencing. Just quit stomping your foot and crying because you're failing to push it onto the rest of us.

That's a very ignorant view. Ignorant of the inequality that is pervasive in our country. I'm not proud of America. Happy to be here, yes, but how am I suppose to be so proud when we don't have a healthcare system that focuses on healing rather than profits? When so many are unemployed and there are those who are literally making $900,000 an HOUR that balk at the idea of paying higher taxes? Does that not make you pause think?

Everyone's entitled to their own critique of our country, but to romanticize it as this unerring bastion of all that is good and plenty is a deluded dream.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

Why do you think we are investing so much money into things like green technology, healthcare, education, and roads? We won't be the richest country, but we an set ourselves up for the future for the best standard of living, thus giving people reason to come here and we will once again be on top. It will just take a while.

Metal_Mario99

If you can't dig deep and come up with one single reason to be proud of America, then you deserve to be stuck in the level of pessimism and hopelessness you're obviously experiencing. Just quit stomping your foot and crying because you're failing to push it onto the rest of us.

That is not patriotism that is nationalism. And it is dangerous.

I don't think people realize how ridiculously significant the U.S. is in terms of worldwide trade/output/research/etc. Even with the economic situation we are in if we were to fall, or even slip into full economic collapse, damn near every country that trades with us in any manner would **** their pants and pour aid, non-refundable, into our country.

I would bet good money that if the U.S. petitioned for it, on an economic basis, that several other countries would forgive a good portion of our debt, without restriction, so that our country would bounce back. People claim China is such a booming economy, but no one really explains why...because of western nations foreign investment into the country.

The U.S. makes up a very large portion of that. If we fall under, so does China. Hell, some people are saying that China will not remain the economic powerhouse it is said to be. Why? Because there are people who are petitioning to create better working/wage conditions in China; i.e. more wages, less hours, increased costs of goods. I have read a few articles that suggest that if these people get there way, and they may not, that many places will simply move to India.

All in all, in the short run we will need to make plenty of economic sacrifices and increase efficiencies. In the long run, we will be fine.

And correct me if I am wrong, but didn't we come out of the recession in late 2009?

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]

Seems that way to me, no real hope in sight. I have almost given up on this country and see it as a waste right now. Normally I believe that the USA could rebound from anything, now it seems like we won't rebound and are falling down and won't bounce back. Those days seem to be over, may just get while the gettins good. Is the USA a lost cause, or can it come back.

Chickity_China

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

Why do you think we are investing so much money into things like green technology, healthcare, education, and roads? We won't be the richest country, but we an set ourselves up for the future for the best standard of living, thus giving people reason to come here and we will once again be on top. It will just take a while.

Metal_Mario99

If you can't dig deep and come up with one single reason to be proud of America, then you deserve to be stuck in the level of pessimism and hopelessness you're obviously experiencing. Just quit stomping your foot and crying because you're failing to push it onto the rest of us.

There is absolutely no reason to feel "proud" in something you had nothing to do with.. Feel lucky that you were born here, and stick to your ideals.. If the country goes down that path, be thankful. If it doesn't, be critical.. Patriotism and nationalism are not positive parts, they in fact frame the darkest parts of our history as a race..

The wealth that the U.S. had several years ago was inflated and artificial.

Revaluation of several markets were years in the making.

The corrections that happened didn't need to be as sharp as they were, (I'm look at you, Greenspan and Bernanke) but they needed to come sooner or later.

As far as 'lost cause' , well, that gave me a good chuckle.

[QUOTE="Metal_Mario99"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]EU has a good standard of living, they could get that anywhere. There are too many stupid people here preventing us from competing in the world. We can't even get stem cell research done right. You need a reason to be proud of your nation, blind patriotism is nationalism.

Former_Slacker

If you can't dig deep and come up with one single reason to be proud of America, then you deserve to be stuck in the level of pessimism and hopelessness you're obviously experiencing. Just quit stomping your foot and crying because you're failing to push it onto the rest of us.

That is not patriotism that is nationalism. And it is dangerous.

Patriotism and nationalism are interchangeable often times.. The point being they should not be a trait sought after in the 21st century of secular thought.. You should support your nation if its upholding the ideals and philosophy you agree with.. And be critical when its not.. All too often do I see the overly "patriotic" turn a blind eye or even accept things that really go against what the country stands for but still they think its acceptable.. The torturing of people, and the detainment with out due process of some Americans are good evidence of this.

The wealth that the U.S. had several years ago was inflated and artificial.

Revaluation of several markets were years in the making.

The corrections that happened didn't need to be as sharp as they were, (I'm look at you, Greenspan and Bernanke) but they needed to come sooner or later.

As far as 'lost cause' , well, that gave me a good chuckle.

cybrcatter

[QUOTE="cybrcatter"]

The wealth that the U.S. had several years ago was inflated and artificial.

Revaluation of several markets were years in the making.

The corrections that happened didn't need to be as sharp as they were, (I'm look at you, Greenspan and Bernanke) but they needed to come sooner or later.

As far as 'lost cause' , well, that gave me a good chuckle.

clayron

[QUOTE="clayron"]

[QUOTE="cybrcatter"]

The wealth that the U.S. had several years ago was inflated and artificial.

Revaluation of several markets were years in the making.

The corrections that happened didn't need to be as sharp as they were, (I'm look at you, Greenspan and Bernanke) but they needed to come sooner or later.

As far as 'lost cause' , well, that gave me a good chuckle.

cybrcatter

How old are you OP? The USA always bounces back, just give it time. That is why I ask how old are you since you seem not to expierence some of the previous hard times. The USA will recover from the recession (if that is what you are reffering to since it is economical terms). Afterall, it took 25 years to recover from the Great Depression. In fact, this is not even like the GD, since unemployment is not near 25% nationwide (no matter how many times the ignorant ***** Obama wants us to believe)Hemmaroids

[QUOTE="cybrcatter"]

[QUOTE="clayron"] Are you speaking about the Financial Reform that took place?

clayron

I love it. Just as our economy has peaks and troughs, so to do many opinions seems to reflect this.

90's tech bubble: We can sustain high growth indefinitely!

Following trough: We are doomed!

Rinse and repeat.

Short sightedness for teh lulz!