Is the west fascist?

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deactivated-5901ac91d8e33

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#1 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts

Hello

This subject caught my attention yesterday when I wrote an essay about the diffrences about nazism and fascism. i had to look up what the two ideologies's belifes were and I compared them to eachother (looks like nazism is fascism with race politics)....I noticed that our (the west) governments are not far from what fascism really is....

the nations who begin to show the extreme signs are the USA and France.

Here are the 14 points of fascism...look at it and decide for yourself

1.)  Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays

2.)  Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3.)  Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc

4.)  Supremacy of the Military 

Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5.)  Rampant Sexism

The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6.)  Controlled Mass Media

Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7.)  Obsession with National Security

Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses

8.)  Religion and Government are Intertwined

Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9.)  Corporate Power is Protected:

The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10.)  Labor Power is Suppressed

Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed

11.)  Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12.)  Obsession with Crime and Punishment

Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations

13.)  Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. 

14.  Fraudulent Elections

Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

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Nisstyre_56

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#3 Nisstyre_56
Member since 2006 • 2849 Posts
I Agree
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Nisstyre_56

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#4 Nisstyre_56
Member since 2006 • 2849 Posts
I'm a fascist.Marx_Brother
I thought you were a Socialist
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deactivated-5901ac91d8e33

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#5 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts

I'm a fascist.Marx_Brother

hmm ok, can you explain why?

..............So we can start a debate

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NightStalkerBX

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#8 NightStalkerBX
Member since 2006 • 2032 Posts
Where are the last two points?
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deactivated-5901ac91d8e33

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#9 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts

Where are the last two points?NightStalkerBX

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

14. Fraudulent elections

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steppinrazor88

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#10 steppinrazor88
Member since 2006 • 14441 Posts
...i guess...????
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sentencedogu

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#11 sentencedogu
Member since 2006 • 3823 Posts
Well from my point of view a lot of them fits the USA
Whole world knows USA is a right wing country but if we look at fascism as a normal ideology.Yes USA seems fascist,a low level fascist

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branketra

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#12 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts
In a word....owned.
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Mr_Manikin52

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#13 Mr_Manikin52
Member since 2004 • 12300 Posts
Iran fits the bill.
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Brainkiller05

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#14 Brainkiller05
Member since 2005 • 28954 Posts
Plagerise much?

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

I think this may be a misunderstanding :P seeing as you didn't say that that was your essay...but if you are saying that all that is your essay then yea ^ but if you just said this is the information I looked up while writing your essay then I apologise... you didn't clearly state if that actually was the essay you wrote :lol:
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Raeget

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#15 Raeget
Member since 2006 • 1924 Posts
I do have to admit, America is a mildly fascist country. I'm so disappointed how my own country that was supposed to be founded on liberty and equality is in this current mess with the Bush administration That's why I plan on moving to Europe as soon as I graduate.


I should raster this poster and put it up at my school. ^^^
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Private_Vegas

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#16 Private_Vegas
Member since 2007 • 2783 Posts
When you look at those points and then at the US, they do look pretty fascist, but then.... I'm bias as hell when it comes to the States.
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Marx_Brother

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#17 Marx_Brother
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

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steppinrazor88

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#18 steppinrazor88
Member since 2006 • 14441 Posts
i feel a storm brewing....
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Raeget

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#19 Raeget
Member since 2006 • 1924 Posts
Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

 Marx_Brother


Oh man, I have a German friend who would love to have a good, long talk with you.

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Private_Vegas

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#20 Private_Vegas
Member since 2007 • 2783 Posts

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Marx_Brother

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

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Marx_Brother

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#21 Marx_Brother
Member since 2007 • 726 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Private_Vegas

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.

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deactivated-5901ac91d8e33

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#22 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts

Well from my point of view a lot of them fits the USA
Whole world knows USA is a right wing country but if we look at fascism as a normal ideology.Yes USA seems fascist,a low level fascist

sentencedogu

France is almost as bad as the USA , to be fair

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Private_Vegas

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#23 Private_Vegas
Member since 2007 • 2783 Posts
[QUOTE="Private_Vegas"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Marx_Brother

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.

Never heard of them. I though you're name was a play off of Karl Marx. I retract my assumption that you would be a Marxist, and substitute it with my assumption that you are: either supporting Fascism as a joke, or you are an asshat 

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doubutsuteki

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#24 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Private_Vegas

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.



Great for the germans? I don't think so! Communists, socialists, trade unionists, crippled people, sick people and immigrants - not to mention german citizens who had lived in Germany for generations (but happened to have an ancient ancestor of another heritage) - were put to death. And people's wages were cut down by half. No-one in his or her right mind would support something like that.
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doubutsuteki

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#25 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts
[QUOTE="Private_Vegas"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Marx_Brother

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.



You are a comedian too - a sorry ass excuse for an intellectual, posing with an avatar of Friedrich Nietzsche.
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Doomlike_Mitc

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#26 Doomlike_Mitc
Member since 2006 • 4912 Posts

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Marx_Brother


Yhea, I still think germany was a greath country in the time, well... except from the extermination of certain people, and other bad stuff, they single handedly (almost) took on half the world, and before it fell it still made many tremble, I think Hitlers empire was a good one, well organised, he helped alot of germans also, to bad he had to use it for bad purposes. :(
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#27 Doomlike_Mitc
Member since 2006 • 4912 Posts
Well we are a litle fascisme, a litle... 
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doubutsuteki

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#28 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Doomlike_Mitc


Yhea, I still think germany was a greath country in the time, well... except from the extermination of certain people, and other bad stuff, they single handedly (almost) took on half the world, and before it fell it still made many tremble, I think Hitlers empire was a good one, well organised, he helped alot of germans also, to bad he had to use it for bad purposes. :(



You are retarded.
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jakecufc8888

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#29 jakecufc8888
Member since 2006 • 2381 Posts
The US is extremely close to fascism. The sad thing is that most people don't even know what fascism is.
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justiceboy13

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#30 justiceboy13
Member since 2004 • 11295 Posts
wow, we do have quite a few of those in the US don't we. :?
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MattUD1

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#31 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="Private_Vegas"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

doubutsuteki

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.



You are a comedian too - a sorry ass excuse for an intellectual, posing with an avatar of Friedrich Nietzsche.

That's Stalin...
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bastards12345

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#32 bastards12345
Member since 2005 • 7194 Posts
The U.S. may show some cult of personality and fascist similarities, but it is certainly not a fascism yet.
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bastards12345

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#33 bastards12345
Member since 2005 • 7194 Posts
[QUOTE="doubutsuteki"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="Private_Vegas"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

MattUD1

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.



You are a comedian too - a sorry ass excuse for an intellectual, posing with an avatar of Friedrich Nietzsche.

That's Stalin...

His cache might not be refreshed; Marx's avatar was Nietzsche yesterday.
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MattUD1

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#34 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
[QUOTE="MattUD1"][QUOTE="doubutsuteki"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="Private_Vegas"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

bastards12345

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.



You are a comedian too - a sorry ass excuse for an intellectual, posing with an avatar of Friedrich Nietzsche.

That's Stalin...

His cash might not be refreshed; Marx's avatar was Nietzsche yesterday.

Ah. Thank you.
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Squidward117

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#35 Squidward117
Member since 2005 • 4374 Posts
The United States is not fascist. End comment.
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#36 fluffers623
Member since 2007 • 1769 Posts
hm....usa does fit some of the points. i wonder what the founding fathers would have to say. they created this country so everyone inside would have equal oppurtunities and rights. Now look at what's happening. Bush is rallying soldiers to kill muslims. US flags are almost everywhere I go, the military is super powerful and are bossing around other countries.
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Buff-McBlumpkin

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#37 Buff-McBlumpkin
Member since 2007 • 566 Posts

Hello

Here are the 14 points of fascism...look at it and decide for yourself

1.)  Powerful and Continuing Nationalism

2.)  Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights

3.)  Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

4.)  Supremacy of the Military 

5.)  Rampant Sexism

6.)  Controlled Mass Media

7.)  Obsession with National Security

8.)  Religion and Government are Intertwined

9.)  Corporate Power is Protected:

10.)  Labor Power is Suppressed

11.)  Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts

12.)  Obsession with Crime and Punishment

14.  Fraudulent Elections

jointed

Your "14 points of fascism" were created by a man (Larry Britt) who many have tried to pass off as a "Dr. and Political Scientist" (neither of which he has the credentials for.) He is simply a man who posted specific anti Bush Administration bullet point list for an online liberal publication and tried to pass it off as the "defining points of fascism," of which they aren't.

It is a fancy critique of the Bush administration, not a defining list explaining the internal workings of the fascist ideology. He's simply a critic of the Bush administration and not an expert on fascist history, nor should his list be treated as the "defining points of fascism."

This has nothing to do with how I feel about the Bush administration, or fascism. Anyone who knows anything about fascist history knows not only is that list laughably incomplete and, at times, inacurate it's no more than a poorly-disguised dig at the Bush administration.  Sorry to burst your bubble.

http://www.genesoc.com/blog1/?page_id=926

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bastards12345

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#38 bastards12345
Member since 2005 • 7194 Posts
The US is more of a theocracy than a fascism.
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203762174820177760555343052357

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#39 203762174820177760555343052357
Member since 2005 • 7599 Posts
Based on the definition above, except for #6, I guess the answer is yes.
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#40 Jigsaw_McGraw
Member since 2006 • 1231 Posts
[QUOTE="Private_Vegas"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Marx_Brother

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.

You contradict yourself...You say fascism owns but your avatar is Joseph Stalin...Its either Communism or Fascism, Left or Right Wing...
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sidler88

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#41 sidler88
Member since 2006 • 724 Posts

I do have to admit, America is a mildly fascist country. I'm so disappointed how my own country that was supposed to be founded on liberty and equality is in this current mess with the Bush administration That's why I plan on moving to Europe as soon as I graduate.


I should raster this poster and put it up at my school. ^^^Raeget

i think you are getting your political parties mixed up,, Fascism is on the Far left, near socialism, Marxizm, and Communism.. the farthest Right you can go is Libertarianism, which is about as opposite as you can get from Fascism

i dont hold it against you,, i just assume you are an ignorant Bush-hater who doesnt know what they stand for... 

oh.. and socialism has NEVER worked,, and NEVER will,, take that Hillary 

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sidler88

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#42 sidler88
Member since 2006 • 724 Posts
i guess the lack of response means utter ownage
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bastards12345

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#43 bastards12345
Member since 2005 • 7194 Posts
i guess the lack of response means utter ownagesidler88
Self-ownage, it would seem.
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LJS9502_basic

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#44 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180202 Posts
In a word....no.
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EboyLOL

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#45 EboyLOL
Member since 2006 • 5358 Posts
No the west isn't fascist. End of topic.
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acegunslinger

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#46 acegunslinger
Member since 2004 • 1223 Posts
No, and why do you say the west? The east is even more so.
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doubutsuteki

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#47 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts
[QUOTE="doubutsuteki"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="Private_Vegas"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

MattUD1

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.



You are a comedian too - a sorry ass excuse for an intellectual, posing with an avatar of Friedrich Nietzsche.

That's Stalin...



He changed it to Stalin just recently, after my post.
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doubutsuteki

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#48 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts

[QUOTE="Raeget"]I do have to admit, America is a mildly fascist country. I'm so disappointed how my own country that was supposed to be founded on liberty and equality is in this current mess with the Bush administration That's why I plan on moving to Europe as soon as I graduate.


I should raster this poster and put it up at my school. ^^^sidler88

i think you are getting your political parties mixed up,, Fascism is on the Far left, near socialism, Marxizm, and Communism.. the farthest Right you can go is Libertarianism, which is about as opposite as you can get from Fascism

i dont hold it against you,, i just assume you are an ignorant Bush-hater who doesnt know what they stand for...

oh.. and socialism has NEVER worked,, and NEVER will,, take that Hillary



Yes, in the minds of extremely marginalised libertarian sects fascism is left-wing. But it is in fact not. Fascism and nazism are right-wing ideologies which libertarians, liberals and conservatives have supported throughout history. They are all based on the economic system of capitalism. Marxism and communism are not political parties. Marxism is the social, historical and economical theory of communism, which is a political movement, and form of society.

Hilary Clinton is not socialist by any standards - she is liberal. You fail totally to make a point. Socialism was betrayed in the 20s and since then it hasn't exactly gotten many chances to work. Just because the the Soviet Union's formal name was The United Soviet Socialist Republics doesn't mean that they were socialist or that the soviets were in power - quite the contrary. But you are too deluded to see this, obviously. Your mind has been poisoned by libertarians.

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doubutsuteki

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#49 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts
The U.S. may show some cult of personality and fascist similarities, but it is certainly not a fascism yet.bastards12345


True. It is not fascist. But like many people have pointed out already, many elements of a fascist society exist within our societies - be it in the U.S.A., Europe, Asia or elsewhere.
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doubutsuteki

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#50 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts
[QUOTE="Marx_Brother"][QUOTE="Private_Vegas"][QUOTE="Marx_Brother"]

Fascism owns, I mean look at this... Hitler brought order and people knew their place within Germany a once fragmented country with soaring inflation...

Jigsaw_McGraw

Great for the Germans, not so great for everyone else.

also, why would someone who named their profile Marx_Brother support fascism? I figured you'd be more.... Marxist.

The Marx Brothers were comedians.

You contradict yourself...You say fascism owns but your avatar is Joseph Stalin...Its either Communism or Fascism, Left or Right Wing...



Joseph Stalin was definately not a communist. More than anything, he symbolizes the break with and betrayal of marxism, leninism and communism. His politics were hardly communist, but his economic reforms could be considered left-wing - still pretty uninteresting to me as a communist, as communism and socialism is based on the principle of working c.lass rule. The U.S.S.R. under Stalin was in fact the rule of a bureaucracy.