Islamization of Europe? Is all this immigration of muslims a good thing? [VIDEO]

So, to begin with i just want to say that im not a racist at all and i oppose racism very strongly.. i come from norway and none of my 5 best friends are norwegian. in fact, two of them are muslims. the school i go to has 6 classes consisting purely of foreigners, and the other classes have a lot of them as well. i am always around foreigners, but despite of this, i have not yet quite managed to make up my mind regarding my countrys immigration and integration policies.

generally, i am conceived as quite left-winged and i know some of my political views would make many of the americans on this board cringe. today, however, the subject i want to discuss is immigration. more specifically, muslim immigration.

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norway has very liberal immigration politics, and oslo, the capital of norway, has an immigrant share of 27%. its the fastest growing capital in scandinavia, and one of the fastest growing cities in all of europe, solely due to immigration, mostly from the third world. from 1970 to 2007, the ethnic Norwegian population in oslo decreased by 10.1% while the immigrant population increased by 823.6%. by year 2025, the immigrant share of oslo is estimated to be 40%.

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in fact, today, 40% of people below 18 in oslo have an immigrant background. this number was 31% 9 years ago, which means an increase of 1% each year. 56 schools have over 50% immigrants and there are already 9 schools in the capital that have more than 90% foreigners. by year 2021, norwegian students will be no longer be a majority in the schools of oslo.

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here is a link to a news article regarding the matter http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/elevavisen/artikkel.php?artid=591839 its in norwegian, but it includes a map over all schools in oslo and their immigrant share. it should also be said that oslo has a very high crime rate. in fact, it has 4 times as many reported crimes as new york per capita and its also been labeled as the "overdose capital of europe". now, one might ask oneself if the big proportion of immigrants is the reason for this, or if its the fact that 11% of the cities inhabbitants have an islamic background. it all depends on which conception you have of non-western immigrants influence on western societies. im not going to terrorize you with my personal opinions yet, as i simply havent completely made one up quite yet. i may also add that Rotterdam, the second biggest city of Holland, has an immigrant share of 50%, and statistics show that 55% of all moroccan boys over the age of 18 in the city have been in contact with the police.

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now, watching the situation in my neighbouring country of sweden is admitedly making me quite worried. stockholm, the capital of sweden, already has an immigrant share of 38% and malmö, the third biggest city, is 40% immigrants. 25% of malmös population are muslims. Rosenborg, a borough within the city of malmö, has an immigrant share of 93%. so, before we start discussing this subject id like to provide some videos for you to watch.. only to get a sense of which kind of issues we are facing here.

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the following two videos show the situation in rosengråd, malmö.

video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnP-XzB_U0

video 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBpVAj4ILM

this third video shows some muslims intents for the future of the UK.

video 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F49kogA9Jb4

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so, whats you guys take on all this? should we keep taking in these people? is it really the right thing to do? is it our fault that these problems are occuring, maybe because we dont do a good enough job at implementing our new countrymen? do you believe that the fact that someone is of an islamic background make them more likely to commit a crime?

really, what are we supposed to do? i hope we can get a good dicussion going now, people :) just remember to keep it clean, no racism or any foul language! and thanks for taking your time, if you read everything i wrote and watched the videos! i really appreciate your attention.

i hope not,i used to be muslim

I think they need to go back where they came from!!!!!

Immortalica

Slightly to the East?

From some one who is a agnostic atheist I couldn't care less.. The problem to me is not that they are Muslim, but whether they are extremely socially conservative and against any form of secular government.. That is the problem if there is one.. Governments should come down on these people (regardless of their religion or race) if they break policy or laws.

Hard call. I've nothing against legal immigration, but I'd hate to see countries lose their cultural identity. Sounds like that is what's going to happen, though. Can't blame immigration for all of it, though. Many european countries have negative birth rates.

I think I can summarize the OP in two words - "stranger danger!" am I right?

I think it's BS and it pisses me off. That's all I'm gonna say.

EDIT: BTW OP, I'm American if you're wondering.

Hard call. I've nothing against legal immigration, but I'd hate to see countries lose their cultural identity. Sounds like that is what's going to happen, though. Can't blame immigration for all of it, though. Many european countries have negative birth rates.

sonicare

.. You don't lose your cultural identity, it changes as time goes on..

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Hard call. I've nothing against legal immigration, but I'd hate to see countries lose their cultural identity. Sounds like that is what's going to happen, though. Can't blame immigration for all of it, though. Many european countries have negative birth rates.

.. You don't lose your cultural identity, it changes as time goes on..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Hard call. I've nothing against legal immigration, but I'd hate to see countries lose their cultural identity. Sounds like that is what's going to happen, though. Can't blame immigration for all of it, though. Many european countries have negative birth rates.

sonicare

.. You don't lose your cultural identity, it changes as time goes on..

Cultural identy is never static. Never has been, never will be.

I think I can summarize the OP in two words - "stranger danger!" am I right?

entropyecho

did you watch the videos i posted? i think the danger that concerns me the most is the 1/3 of families in malmö that are victims of immigrant fueled crime every year.. like i said, i have many friends who are both 1. and 2. generation immigrants. to answer your question, no, youre not right. you are in fact very far from it.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

Hard call. I've nothing against legal immigration, but I'd hate to see countries lose their cultural identity. Sounds like that is what's going to happen, though. Can't blame immigration for all of it, though. Many european countries have negative birth rates.

sonicare

.. You don't lose your cultural identity, it changes as time goes on..

No you don't its a natural thing that occurs in every thing.. It changes as time goes on.. No matter how you spin it its going to change.. Cultures do not stay static for hundreds of years on end.. To me the whole claim of "losing culture" is utterly ridiculous.. IRELAND is a POSTER child in that cultures do not die.. You would think that Native American culture is dead.. When it in fact isn't.. And they have faced far more problems then a population legally and peacefully immigrating to a country.

[QUOTE="Immortalica"]I think they need to go back where they came from. It's sad when Norwegians are the minority in Norway. Edit for the exclamation points.gamerguru100

Why does it matter? People have to live with that things change, and always will change.. And that feeling that they are "losing everything" is completely unfounded the majority of times with these sorts of things..

firstly, what dose their faith have to do with anything?

secondly, Norway itself has 4 milion people living in the country, its a huge country, yet Berlin itself has around 3.5 million people in it.

thirdly, as i heard on the news. There might be coming more immigrants to europe, but norway is getting less then the past years. Which is the reason people in the immigrant department are losing jobbs.

I wouldn't say that those with a islamic background is more prone to crime because of that as there are several immigrants here who work and are law abiding citizens, Personally I think it's more due to a culture clash and a slight fear that we have to put our foot down so to speak. For instance the hijab debate regarding police women with muslim faith. A police uniform is standard for all, afterall it is a uniform but that debate caused such heated debate when we said no and eventually when we got the intolerant of their culture and faith stamp then we backed off and seemed to basically say " fine". Additionally we've also gotten to the point where girls with norwegian parents, get bullied in school because they don't wear hijab. This really is uncalled for and frankly in my opinion sort of hypocritical when it comes to the respect another's culture. I'm the furthest from a racist you can find, I work closely with people from all over the world on a daily basis. As far as What I think, We live in Norway, a independent nation with it's own set of laws and culture. Immigrant are free to move here and bring their culture and religious faith with them but It does not change that Norway is Norway and despite culture and faith, there are things that just cannot be done because it might be against the law, it's against a set standard or it is against the culture of the nation itself. If you move to another nation then you must abide by it's laws and you must accept that it's culture may be completely different then yours. That's just the way it is.Treflis

Agreed.. That kind of hypocrisy pisses me off to no end..

It's certainly an interesting topic. The Chancellor of Germany recently said something about how a multicultural country doesn't work, and that immigrants in Germany should speak the language and be German-like.

That might be a little extreme to me, for I think multiculturalism is a good thing. However, it is true that a multicultural country can be hard to govern. I wonder sometimes if the US can actually be multicultural with all of the hate and ignorance that goes on. Here's a link if anybody wants to look at it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures

It's certainly an interesting topic. The Chancellor of Germany recently said something about how a multicultural country doesn't work, and that immigrants in Germany should speak the language and be German-like.

That might be a little extreme to me, for I think multiculturalism is a good thing. However, it is true that a multicultural country can be hard to govern. I wonder sometimes if the US can actually be multicultural with all of the hate and ignorance that goes on. Here's a link if anybody wants to look at it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures

0Tyler0

It's certainly an interesting topic. The Chancellor of Germany recently said something about how a multicultural country doesn't work, and that immigrants in Germany should speak the language and be German-like.

That might be a little extreme to me, for I think multiculturalism is a good thing. However, it is true that a multicultural country can be hard to govern. I wonder sometimes if the US can actually be multicultural with all of the hate and ignorance that goes on. Here's a link if anybody wants to look at it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures

0Tyler0

The US is and always has been multicultural, no matter what certain segments of our society may want to think.

[QUOTE="0Tyler0"]

It's certainly an interesting topic. The Chancellor of Germany recently said something about how a multicultural country doesn't work, and that immigrants in Germany should speak the language and be German-like.

That might be a little extreme to me, for I think multiculturalism is a good thing. However, it is true that a multicultural country can be hard to govern. I wonder sometimes if the US can actually be multicultural with all of the hate and ignorance that goes on. Here's a link if anybody wants to look at it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures

gamerguru100

There is a difference.. Between speaking language and forcing their beliefs and values on others.. Furthermore the United States is a multicultural country.. Far more in fact then Germany.

[QUOTE="gamerguru100"][QUOTE="0Tyler0"]

It's certainly an interesting topic. The Chancellor of Germany recently said something about how a multicultural country doesn't work, and that immigrants in Germany should speak the language and be German-like.

That might be a little extreme to me, for I think multiculturalism is a good thing. However, it is true that a multicultural country can be hard to govern. I wonder sometimes if the US can actually be multicultural with all of the hate and ignorance that goes on. Here's a link if anybody wants to look at it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures

There is a difference.. Between speaking language and forcing their beliefs and values on others.. Furthermore the United States is a multicultural country.. Far more in fact then Germany.

I wouldn't say that those with a islamic background is more prone to crimeTreflis

statistics will actually prove you differently. people from islamic countries such as somalia, pakistan, iraq and gambia tend to be much more involved in crime than people from other countries in the third world, like vietnam and sri lanka. the only thing that seperates these two groups of people is their religion. coincidence? well, thats up to you to decide.. but to me, it does indeed seem very suspicious.

firstly, what dose their faith have to do with anything?

secondly, Norway itself has 4 milion people living in the country, its a huge country, yet Berlin itself has around 3.5 million people in it.

thirdly, as i heard on the news. There might be coming more immigrants to europe, but norway is getting less then the past years. Which is the reason people in the immigrant department are losing jobbs.

Half-Way

Actually, Norway recently passed the 4,9 million mark and due to the big immigration we will pass 5 million already in year 2012. most of the population is situated in the souther part of the country, and its much denser than one may think. if you remove unlivable area (like all our mountains), norway is actually just as densely populated as the european average.. i do however not see what this has to do with the subject.

There is a difference.. Between speaking language and forcing their beliefs and values on others.. Furthermore the United States is a multicultural country.. Far more in fact then Germany.

sSubZerOo

the US is a multicultura nation indeed.. i do however like to think of it more as "multi-ethnic".. in the US many people tend to be americans no matter what their ethnic background may me. youd be surprised if you went to europe, where every indian-looking person will actually be influenced by indian culture. few american cities can really compare with cities like london, paris and amsterdam when it comes to multiculturalness.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="gamerguru100"]How is learning a new language and assimilating to a culture extreme? For example, in the United States, it will be difficult for you to survive if you do not know English. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. :Pgrape_of_wrath

There is a difference.. Between speaking language and forcing their beliefs and values on others.. Furthermore the United States is a multicultural country.. Far more in fact then Germany.

And I can't help but see this is kind of hypocritical.. The German community is increasingly sensitive on the history of the Nazi regime.. Yet they want to actively enforce cultural purity.. This sounds vaguely familiar..

[QUOTE="Treflis"]

statistics will actually prove you differently. people from islamic countries such as somalia, pakistan, iraq and gambia tend to be much more involved in crime than people from other countries in the third world, like vietnam and sri lanka. the only thing that seperates these two groups of people is their religion. coincidence? well, thats up to you to decide.. but to me, it does indeed seem very suspicious.

[QUOTE="Half-Way"]

firstly, what dose their faith have to do with anything?

secondly, Norway itself has 4 milion people living in the country, its a huge country, yet Berlin itself has around 3.5 million people in it.

thirdly, as i heard on the news. There might be coming more immigrants to europe, but norway is getting less then the past years. Which is the reason people in the immigrant department are losing jobbs.

escapeoftheape

Actually, Norway recently passed the 4,9 million mark and due to the big immigration we will pass 5 million already in year 2012. most of the population is situated in the souther part of the country, and its much denser than one may think. if you remove unlivable area (like all our mountains), norway is actually just as densely populated as the european average.. i do however not see what this has to do with the subject.

There is a difference.. Between speaking language and forcing their beliefs and values on others.. Furthermore the United States is a multicultural country.. Far more in fact then Germany.

sSubZerOo

the US is a multicultura nation indeed.. i do however like to think of it more as "multi-ethnic".. in the US many people tend to be americans no matter what their ethnic background may me. youd be surprised if you went to europe, where every indian-looking person will actually be influenced by indian culture. few american cities can really compare with cities like london, paris and amsterdam when it comes to multiculturalness.

Uh huh.... This is ignoring the huge Amish, Jewish, Native American, Mormon, etc etc cultures communities acros the nation.. The United States is multi-cultural.. Even our mainstream culture is borrowed from numerous cultures in multiple areas..

Wouldn't oppose setting a fixed amount of immigrants that are allowed to settle within the EU per year. Of course, there can never be a limit on the amount of immigrants from within the EU itself, but I think it's best if we took it slow with the africans and arabs and asians and et cetera.

Wouldn't oppose setting a fixed amount of immigrants that are allowed to settle within the EU per year. Of course, there can never be a limit on the amount of immigrants from within the EU itself, but I think it's best if we took it slow with the africans and arabs and asians and et cetera.

fooZar777

Just about every nation out there that is a first world country has a limit in place already..

the US is a multicultura nation indeed.. i do however like to think of it more as "multi-ethnic".. in the US many people tend to be americans no matter what their ethnic background may me. youd be surprised if you went to europe, where every indian-looking person will actually be influenced by indian culture. few american cities can really compare with cities like london, paris and amsterdam when it comes to multiculturalness.

escapeoftheape

No, multicultural. While indeed there is an overarching American culture, however you can still find quite a bit of difference in culture from region to region within the United States.

Uh huh.... This is ignoring the huge Amish, Jewish, Native American, Mormon, etc etc cultures communities acros the nation.. The United States is multi-cultural.. Even our mainstream culture is borrowed from numerous cultures in multiple areas..

sSubZerOo

like i said, the US is a multicultural country. what im saying is that its not necessarily that much more multicultural than europe, though more multi-ethnical.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Uh huh.... This is ignoring the huge Amish, Jewish, Native American, Mormon, etc etc cultures communities acros the nation.. The United States is multi-cultural.. Even our mainstream culture is borrowed from numerous cultures in multiple areas..

escapeoftheape

no, its not. like i said, the US is a multicultural country. what im saying is that its not necessarily that much more multicultural than europe, though more multi-ethnical.

No one said it was more multicultural than Europe, just that it is multicultural period.

No one said it was more multicultural than Europe, just that it is multicultural period.

worlock77

Furthermore the United States is a multicultural country.. Far more in fact then Germany.

sSubZerOo

;)

[QUOTE="fooZar777"]

Wouldn't oppose setting a fixed amount of immigrants that are allowed to settle within the EU per year. Of course, there can never be a limit on the amount of immigrants from within the EU itself, but I think it's best if we took it slow with the africans and arabs and asians and et cetera.

sSubZerOo

Just about every nation out there that is a first world country has a limit in place already..

That is simply not true

[QUOTE="0Tyler0"]

It's certainly an interesting topic. The Chancellor of Germany recently said something about how a multicultural country doesn't work, and that immigrants in Germany should speak the language and be German-like.

That might be a little extreme to me, for I think multiculturalism is a good thing. However, it is true that a multicultural country can be hard to govern. I wonder sometimes if the US can actually be multicultural with all of the hate and ignorance that goes on. Here's a link if anybody wants to look at it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures

gamerguru100

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Uh huh.... This is ignoring the huge Amish, Jewish, Native American, Mormon, etc etc cultures communities acros the nation.. The United States is multi-cultural.. Even our mainstream culture is borrowed from numerous cultures in multiple areas..

escapeoftheape

like i said, the US is a multicultural country. what im saying is that its not necessarily that much more multicultural than europe, though more multi-ethnical.

I never said that.. I said the United States is far more multi cultural then Germany.. Not all of Europe.

i hope not,i used to be muslim

Vader993

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

No one said it was more multicultural than Europe, just that it is multicultural period.

escapeoftheape

Furthermore the United States is a multicultural country.. Far more in fact then Germany.

sSubZerOo

;)

Germany =/= Europe.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="fooZar777"]

Wouldn't oppose setting a fixed amount of immigrants that are allowed to settle within the EU per year. Of course, there can never be a limit on the amount of immigrants from within the EU itself, but I think it's best if we took it slow with the africans and arabs and asians and et cetera.

fooZar777

Just about every nation out there that is a first world country has a limit in place already..

That is simply not true

So your trying to tell me if 5 million could just up and immigrate one year into the country? No.. Most of these countries full well have a limit for obvious reasons including economics, food supplies, flat out logistics, and many other things.

[QUOTE="fooZar777"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Just about every nation out there that is a first world country has a limit in place already..

sSubZerOo

That is simply not true

So your trying to tell me if 5 million could just up and immigrate one year into the country? No.. Most of these countries full well have a limit for obvious reasons including economics, food supplies, flat out logistics, and many other things.

So in your opinion this is similar to a person eating donuts and his "limit" being how many donuts he can eat before he gets sick and throws up. That is not an actual limit.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="fooZar777"]

That is simply not true

fooZar777

So your trying to tell me if 5 million could just up and immigrate one year into the country? No.. Most of these countries full well have a limit for obvious reasons including economics, food supplies, flat out logistics, and many other things.

So in your opinion this is similar to a person eating donuts and his "limit" being how many donuts he can eat before he gets sick and throws up. That is not an actual limit.

:| No its the fact of housing and other such things.. If you have a overflow of people coming in that far exceeds the jobs and housing its not a good idea to let them all in.. Because it will lead to numerous problems with poverty and homelessness..

I never said that.. I said the United States is far more multi cultural then Germany.. Not all of Europe.

sSubZerOo

well, germany is quite close to the western european average when it comes to multiculturalness.. thats why i thought you might as well have been referring to all of europe.

i wouldnt mind about any legal immigration if the government wasnt so wristed about the whole thing.