Israeli court sentences dog to death by stoning, children to deliver punishment

I'm hoping one day the middle east will become a glass crater one day and the whole continent of africa will sink to the bottom of the ocean. If i had that wish Id do it without hesistation

KingOfAsia

So you would love to commit mass genocide killing mainly innocent people caught between extremist groups? The Middle East is a poster child of imperialism for the past century regardless of what country you look at.. Iran isa guiding example of this.. Your draconian tactics would be condemning people on all sides that really had no choice in the matter to death because of causing inconvience.

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]

Haha, this place is funny. I see people in this thread trying to act "genuinely concerned" for the dog but are silent about human deaths to suit their agenda. Basically it is a few who don't condemn (although they don't justify either to be fair) but are now concerned and rush to either generally post or criticize Israel when an event happened that the government or 99.9% of Israeli's had no part of. What is the difference between this stupidity and stupidity from Israel's neighbours? The courts neither sanctioned or justisfied this barbaric act nor sanctions or justifies the needless deaths of ANY of her people. Go on, name me a country in the the Middle East that is half as tolerant as Israel. Name one other country in the Middle East that hasn't executed a person in their history (apart from Eichmann, although he isn't a "person" to be fair)? I bet you can't. The same people who try to justify their continue to be obsessed about events in Israel such as this are the same people who ignore the 1,000s of deaths in Syria. If you guys are so compassionate about animals why have I not seen topics in regards to the dozens of HUMAN deaths in Syria in every day? It's pure hypocrisy.

Furthermore, NO ONE (outside of a minority of the ultra-orthodox) justifies the stoning of even a dog. The vast majority of the people of Israel are, unlike the rest of the Middle East, in the 21st century. Hell, the ultra-orthodox are backwards people who are mostly hated in Israel. They are lousy, de-generate wastes of space who haven't worked a day of their life and instead devote their entire life to reading a book. They are also exempt from compulsory military service and have a unique advantage in comparsion with other Israeli's. Sadly they are growing at a massive rate and it doesn't look as if they are going to change their ways.

Tell me OT, was you're reaction the same to Egypt when an Egyptian threw a dog off a roof?

sSubZerOo

That depends, was this some random guy which your making it sound like.. And not a judicial court case whcih led to this ridiculous sentence?? And where are people comparing Israel to other countries in this thread? The general consensus is "thats ridiculous".. To me your response is a pretty typical knee jerk reaction..

Of course I agree with the "that's ridiculous" sentiment, but if you look at the manner of posts of some users from this thread and other threads (aka the threads I make) you would realise where I'm coming from. For many it's just another reason to get on Israel's back (the floatilla's coming soon so that won't be too long).

[QUOTE="the_ChEeSe_mAn2"][QUOTE="KingOfAsia"]

I'm hoping one day the middle east will become a glass crater one day and the whole continent of africa will sink to the bottom of the ocean. If i had that wish Id do it without hesistation

KingOfAsia

those people dont give a crap about anything, honestly it would be a sad waste to send a nuke over their since it costs more than them

Perhapes you should actually crack open a book on the matter.. Instead of spouting off such ignorant drivel.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]

Haha, this place is funny. I see people in this thread trying to act "genuinely concerned" for the dog but are silent about human deaths to suit their agenda. Basically it is a few who don't condemn (although they don't justify either to be fair) but are now concerned and rush to either generally post or criticize Israel when an event happened that the government or 99.9% of Israeli's had no part of. What is the difference between this stupidity and stupidity from Israel's neighbours? The courts neither sanctioned or justisfied this barbaric act nor sanctions or justifies the needless deaths of ANY of her people. Go on, name me a country in the the Middle East that is half as tolerant as Israel. Name one other country in the Middle East that hasn't executed a person in their history (apart from Eichmann, although he isn't a "person" to be fair)? I bet you can't. The same people who try to justify their continue to be obsessed about events in Israel such as this are the same people who ignore the 1,000s of deaths in Syria. If you guys are so compassionate about animals why have I not seen topics in regards to the dozens of HUMAN deaths in Syria in every day? It's pure hypocrisy.

Furthermore, NO ONE (outside of a minority of the ultra-orthodox) justifies the stoning of even a dog. The vast majority of the people of Israel are, unlike the rest of the Middle East, in the 21st century. Hell, the ultra-orthodox are backwards people who are mostly hated in Israel. They are lousy, de-generate wastes of space who haven't worked a day of their life and instead devote their entire life to reading a book. They are also exempt from compulsory military service and have a unique advantage in comparsion with other Israeli's. Sadly they are growing at a massive rate and it doesn't look as if they are going to change their ways.

Tell me OT, was you're reaction the same to Egypt when an Egyptian threw a dog off a roof?

CannedWorms

That depends, was this some random guy which your making it sound like.. And not a judicial court case whcih led to this ridiculous sentence?? And where are people comparing Israel to other countries in this thread? The general consensus is "thats ridiculous".. To me your response is a pretty typical knee jerk reaction..

Of course I agree with the "that's ridiculous" sentiment, but if you look at the manner of posts of some users from this thread and other threads (aka the threads I make) you would realise where I'm coming from. For many it's just another reason to get on Israel's back (the floatilla's coming soon so that won't be too long).

To be honest there is plenty of reason to be critical towards Israel in its policies of the last century, as much as their neighbors in fact.. This being one of them though? Not really..

[QUOTE="KingOfAsia"]

I'm hoping one day the middle east will become a glass crater one day and the whole continent of africa will sink to the bottom of the ocean. If i had that wish Id do it without hesistation

sSubZerOo

So you would love to commit mass genocide killing mainly innocent people caught between extremist groups? The Middle East is a poster child of imperialism for the past century regardless of what country you look at.. Iran isa guiding example of this.. Your draconian tactics would be condemning people on all sides that really had no choice in the matter to death because of causing inconvience.

yes, we have to start cleaning up somewhere...

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="KingOfAsia"]

I'm hoping one day the middle east will become a glass crater one day and the whole continent of africa will sink to the bottom of the ocean. If i had that wish Id do it without hesistation

KingOfAsia

So you would love to commit mass genocide killing mainly innocent people caught between extremist groups? The Middle East is a poster child of imperialism for the past century regardless of what country you look at.. Iran isa guiding example of this.. Your draconian tactics would be condemning people on all sides that really had no choice in the matter to death because of causing inconvience.

yes, we have to start cleaning up somewhere...

You do understand that much of the current environment has been the cause of Western interference right?

It wasn't a court case, and even if it was- the Law grants Sharia, cannon and Halakaic courts with very specific authorities. If this happened- it's not only a breach of administartive authority, it's a criminal offense.

The problem is- it's not sure what happened. the Rabbi himself denied the accusations and threatened to file defamation suits against Nrg.co.il and Ynet.co.il- which led to the removal of the online stories.

This is all very strange and Yahoo would do well to stop copy pasting from Ynet, and if not- at least it would do well to take the story down in accordance with Ynet.

grape_of_wrath

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]

Haha, this place is funny. I see people in this thread trying to act "genuinely concerned" for the dog but are silent about human deaths to suit their agenda. Basically it is a few who don't condemn (although they don't justify either to be fair) but are now concerned and rush to either generally post or criticize Israel when an event happened that the government or 99.9% of Israeli's had no part of. What is the difference between this stupidity and stupidity from Israel's neighbours? The courts neither sanctioned or justisfied this barbaric act nor sanctions or justifies the needless deaths of ANY of her people. Go on, name me a country in the the Middle East that is half as tolerant as Israel. Name one other country in the Middle East that hasn't executed a person in their history (apart from Eichmann, although he isn't a "person" to be fair)? I bet you can't. The same people who try to justify their continue to be obsessed about events in Israel such as this are the same people who ignore the 1,000s of deaths in Syria. If you guys are so compassionate about animals why have I not seen topics in regards to the dozens of HUMAN deaths in Syria in every day? It's pure hypocrisy.

Furthermore, NO ONE (outside of a minority of the ultra-orthodox) justifies the stoning of even a dog. The vast majority of the people of Israel are, unlike the rest of the Middle East, in the 21st century. Hell, the ultra-orthodox are backwards people who are mostly hated in Israel. They are lousy, de-generate wastes of space who haven't worked a day of their life and instead devote their entire life to reading a book. They are also exempt from compulsory military service and have a unique advantage in comparsion with other Israeli's. Sadly they are growing at a massive rate and it doesn't look as if they are going to change their ways.

Tell me OT, was you're reaction the same to Egypt when an Egyptian threw a dog off a roof?

CannedWorms

That depends, was this some random guy which your making it sound like.. And not a judicial court case whcih led to this ridiculous sentence?? And where are people comparing Israel to other countries in this thread? The general consensus is "thats ridiculous".. To me your response is a pretty typical knee jerk reaction..

Of course I agree with the "that's ridiculous" sentiment, but if you look at the manner of posts of some users from this thread and other threads (aka the threads I make) you would realise where I'm coming from. For many it's just another reason to get on Israel's back (the floatilla's coming soon so that won't be too long).

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

That depends, was this some random guy which your making it sound like.. And not a judicial court case whcih led to this ridiculous sentence?? And where are people comparing Israel to other countries in this thread? The general consensus is "thats ridiculous".. To me your response is a pretty typical knee jerk reaction..

FouGoose

Of course I agree with the "that's ridiculous" sentiment, but if you look at the manner of posts of some users from this thread and other threads (aka the threads I make) you would realise where I'm coming from. For many it's just another reason to get on Israel's back (the floatilla's coming soon so that won't be too long).

I hope they can feel my facepalm, because I'm doing it as hard as I can.

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"]

It wasn't a court case, and even if it was- the Law grants Sharia, cannon and Halakaic courts with very specific authorities. If this happened- it's not only a breach of administartive authority, it's a criminal offense.

The problem is- it's not sure what happened. the Rabbi himself denied the accusations and threatened to file defamation suits against Nrg.co.il and Ynet.co.il- which led to the removal of the online stories.

This is all very strange and Yahoo would do well to stop copy pasting from Ynet, and if not- at least it would do well to take the story down in accordance with Ynet.

I'm hoping one day the middle east will become a glass crater one day and the whole continent of africa will sink to the bottom of the ocean. If i had that wish Id do it without hesistation

KingOfAsia

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"]

It wasn't a court case, and even if it was- the Law grants Sharia, cannon and Halakaic courts with very specific authorities. If this happened- it's not only a breach of administartive authority, it's a criminal offense.

The problem is- it's not sure what happened. the Rabbi himself denied the accusations and threatened to file defamation suits against Nrg.co.il and Ynet.co.il- which led to the removal of the online stories.

This is all very strange and Yahoo would do well to stop copy pasting from Ynet, and if not- at least it would do well to take the story down in accordance with Ynet.

So what you're saying is Israel needs balance? If so I agree, the extremes from both sides is getting out of hand. I'm a rightist but the government needs to be more balanced or a few individuals will do something very, very stupid (refer to Netanyahu's ultimatum of joining Olmert's government). Btw this is a bit off-topic, but can you clarify to me if the Haridim are anti-Zionist? From what I gather they are, but most of the settlers seem to be Haridem. It seems a bit of a strange situation.CannedWorms

I'm saying that even if it caused damage- it's, usually, worth it.

Addendum- to your question, Settlers are not Haredim (i've never heard of one)- they're "National-religious" or "kipot-srugot", which are zionists and productive, but, atleast in principle, just as religious (also- they serve in the best units in the IDF). Their attitude is more "secular" and pragmatic and they don't wear blackcustoms. some of them see Israel as the jewish people expediting the coming of the messiah. the Haredic mindset is that of a reaction to the secular and zionist movements in the 19th and 18th century- sects of them are practically amish. haredim are, usually, anti-zionist because according to the jewish religion- there can't be a jewish state until the coming of the messiah and/or they view the dominant secular society as corrupt.

Now for reservations: Some haredic jews are zionist or, atleast, not anti-zionists. On the other hand some of the extreme kipot-srugot are almost fascist in ideology to the point of being anti-zionist (in the democratic sense), themselves.

• Furthermore, NO ONE (outside of a minority of the ultra-orthodox) justifies the stoning of even a dog. The vast majority of the people of Israel are, unlike the rest of the Middle East, in the 21st century.
• Hell, the ultra-orthodox are backwards people who are mostly hated in Israel. They are lousy, de-generate wastes of space who haven't worked a day of their life and instead devote their entire life to reading a book.
• They are also exempt from compulsory military service and have a unique advantage in comparsion with other Israeli's. Sadly they are growing at a massive rate and it doesn't look as if they are going to change their ways.

CannedWorms

That is completely biased and in no way based upon facts in that subject of matter ; that is completely based upon individual views and cannot be taken into account in discussion.

As well, I am assured by an Israeli that the lowest ranking people in Israel are either Palestinian Arabs or Orthodox Jews which are only in that situation due to the society within Israel degrading views upon them. Therefore, if any "Backwardness" of certain people should be accused, people should look into their ranks within the society and where the society have put them in a degrading situation.

...and Israel is a nuclear state.MushroomWig

And this is why I believe that Israel should be disarmed of its nukes.

Keep the Middle East Nuclear weapons free.

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"] This court has no authority to put animals to death to begin with. After a bit of looking into it, an animal rights organization filed a complaint with the police for animal abuse against the rabbi/judge. The rabbi himself, it seems, denies the entire thing.grape_of_wrath

The clerk of the court has the records though, and the records say the rabbi is not telling the truth.

Why would the children be trying to stone a dog if they weren't told to? Why didn't the rabbi stop them if he knew it was going on?

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]

• Furthermore, NO ONE (outside of a minority of the ultra-orthodox) justifies the stoning of even a dog. The vast majority of the people of Israel are, unlike the rest of the Middle East, in the 21st century.
• Hell, the ultra-orthodox are backwards people who are mostly hated in Israel. They are lousy, de-generate wastes of space who haven't worked a day of their life and instead devote their entire life to reading a book.
• They are also exempt from compulsory military service and have a unique advantage in comparsion with other Israeli's. Sadly they are growing at a massive rate and it doesn't look as if they are going to change their ways.

TehFuneral

That is completely biased and in no way based upon facts in that subject of matter ; that is completely based upon individual views and cannot be taken into account in discussion.

The 1st and 3rd points are factual to a point. That the ultra-orthodox are hated in the secular public is also a factual observation. That a large percentage of them do not work, because they believe that occupying themselves with Halakaic texts is deserving of their full time, and feed on social security paid for by the secular society, instead(which, to it's existence they object), is also a fact.

As well, I am assured by an Israeli that the lowest ranking people in Israel are either Palestinian Arabs or Orthodox Jews which are only in that situation due to the society within Israel degrading views upon them. Therefore, if any "Backwardness" of certain people should be accused, people should look into their ranks within the society and where the society have put them in a degrading situation.

Both groups are "low" because both groups have a long running feud with the secular majority. Both groups, traditionally, object to the existence of Israel and both groups are exempt from military service as a matter of compromise. Both groups are much poorer and are reliant on social services and some sort of affirmative action.

Personally, I would like tosay that arabs have a much better chance of integration because they are, mostly, not fanatics. Also, they are much more participant in higher education (roughly half of my law class are arabs, for example). on the other hand they have forms of racism working against them.

Why would the children be trying to stone a dog if they weren't told to? Why didn't the rabbi stop them if he knew it was going on?

psychobrew

According to a local ultra-orthodox online magazine (take at face value), they "have never seen a pregnant dog before".

That's all the information that's available to me. I don't know. Usually, I would gleefully jump on the opportunity to criticise these people- but, factually, the story is no longer up as a result of a defamation suit threat.

Ynet is an online extension of the largest daily news letter in Israel, which has exposed, for example, criminal accusations involving Ehud Olmert. it would be weird if it withdrew a story because of this kind of minor threat when you bear in mind the pressure that was placed on them before.

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]

• Furthermore, NO ONE (outside of a minority of the ultra-orthodox) justifies the stoning of even a dog. The vast majority of the people of Israel are, unlike the rest of the Middle East, in the 21st century.
• Hell, the ultra-orthodox are backwards people who are mostly hated in Israel. They are lousy, de-generate wastes of space who haven't worked a day of their life and instead devote their entire life to reading a book.
• They are also exempt from compulsory military service and have a unique advantage in comparsion with other Israeli's. Sadly they are growing at a massive rate and it doesn't look as if they are going to change their ways.

TehFuneral

That is completely biased and in no way based upon facts in that subject of matter ; that is completely based upon individual views and cannot be taken into account in discussion.

As well, I am assured by an Israeli that the lowest ranking people in Israel are either Palestinian Arabs or Orthodox Jews which are only in that situation due to the society within Israel degrading views upon them. Therefore, if any "Backwardness" of certain people should be accused, people should look into their ranks within the society and where the society have put them in a degrading situation.

Care to expand on your initial point? Are you saying Israeli's don't condemn stoning of any kind? Are you saying Israeli's aren't more tolerant than other Arab countries when it comes to issues such as stoning, dress code, the rights of woman and the right to freedom of free speech etc? Are you saying the ultra orthodox aren't resented among the tax-paying citizens of Israel. Are you saying they don't read they don't get unique benefits? You need to clarify.

I am an outside observer. Are you saying Arab don't enjoy the same benefits as other citizens? Are you saying Arabs don't get the same education, job opportunities and right to family live as other Israeli's? Are you saying that Israeli Arabs would rather live in another Middle Eastern country than Israel? Degraded in what way? Um, sorry dude but you really don't know what you are talking about. The ultra-Orthodox REFUSE to be educated and assimilate themselves into society. They have the same choices, the same opportunities are everyone else. So do Arabs. There is no "degrading", contrary to what you may think

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

That is completely biased and in no way based upon facts in that subject of matter ; that is completely based upon individual views and cannot be taken into account in discussion.

The 1st and 3rd points are factual to a point. That the ultra-orthodox are hated in the secular public is also a factual observation. That a large percentage of them do not work, because they believe that occupying themselves with Halakaic texts is deserving of their full time, and feed on social security paid for by the secular society, instead(which, to it's existence they object), is also a fact.

As well, I am assured by an Israeli that the lowest ranking people in Israel are either Palestinian Arabs or Orthodox Jews which are only in that situation due to the society within Israel degrading views upon them. Therefore, if any "Backwardness" of certain people should be accused, people should look into their ranks within the society and where the society have put them in a degrading situation.

Both groups are "low" because both groups have a long running feud with the secular majority.

Isn't this a form of human rights violation in the form of discrimination? If job discrimination is openly practiced and no law exist to prevent that then that is in the grand light of humanity - is an abhorrent situation.

Both groups, traditionally, object to the existence of Israel and both groups are exempt from military service as a matter of compromise. Both groups are much poorer and are reliant on social services and some sort of affirmative action.

Personally, I would like tosay that arabs have a much better chance of integration because they are, mostly, not fanatics. Also, they are much more participant in higher education (roughly half of my law ****are arabs, for example). on the other hand they have forms of racism working against them.

grape_of_wrath

I'm saying that even if it caused damage- it's, usually, worth it.

Addendum- to your question, Settlers are not Haredim (i've never heard of one)- they're "National-religious" or "kipot-srugot", which are zionists and productive, but, atleast in principle, just as religious (also- they serve in the best units in the IDF). Their attitude is more "secular" and pragmatic and they don't wear blackcustoms. some of them see Israel as the jewish people expediting the coming of the messiah. the Haredic mindset is that of a reaction to the secular and zionist movements in the 19th and 18th century- sects of them are practically amish. haredim are, usually, anti-zionist because according to the jewish religion- there can't be a jewish state until the coming of the messiah and/or they view the dominant secular society as corrupt.

Now for reservations: Some haredic jews are zionist or, atleast, not anti-zionists. On the other hand some of the extreme kipot-srugot are almost fascist in ideology to the point of being anti-zionist (in the democratic sense), themselves.

grape_of_wrath

[QUOTE="MushroomWig"]...and Israel is a nuclear state.TehFuneral

And this is why I believe that Israel should be disarmed of its nukes.

Keep the Middle East Nuclear weapons free.

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"]

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

That is completely biased and in no way based upon facts in that subject of matter ; that is completely based upon individual views and cannot be taken into account in discussion.

The 1st and 3rd points are factual to a point. That the ultra-orthodox are hated in the secular public is also a factual observation. That a large percentage of them do not work, because they believe that occupying themselves with Halakaic texts is deserving of their full time, and feed on social security paid for by the secular society, instead(which, to it's existence they object), is also a fact.

As well, I am assured by an Israeli that the lowest ranking people in Israel are either Palestinian Arabs or Orthodox Jews which are only in that situation due to the society within Israel degrading views upon them. Therefore, if any "Backwardness" of certain people should be accused, people should look into their ranks within the society and where the society have put them in a degrading situation.

Both groups are "low" because both groups have a long running feud with the secular majority.

Isn't this a form of human rights violation in the form of discrimination? If job discrimination is openly practiced and no law exist to prevent that then that is in the grand light of humanity - is an abhorrent situation.

Both groups, traditionally, object to the existence of Israel and both groups are exempt from military service as a matter of compromise. Both groups are much poorer and are reliant on social services and some sort of affirmative action.

Personally, I would like tosay that arabs have a much better chance of integration because they are, mostly, not fanatics. Also, they are much more participant in higher education (roughly half of my law ****are arabs, for example). on the other hand they have forms of racism working against them.

TehFuneral

[QUOTE="MushroomWig"]...and Israel is a nuclear state.TehFuneral

And this is why I believe that Israel should be disarmed of its nukes.

Keep the Middle East Nuclear weapons free.

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]

• Furthermore, NO ONE (outside of a minority of the ultra-orthodox) justifies the stoning of even a dog. The vast majority of the people of Israel are, unlike the rest of the Middle East, in the 21st century.
• Hell, the ultra-orthodox are backwards people who are mostly hated in Israel. They are lousy, de-generate wastes of space who haven't worked a day of their life and instead devote their entire life to reading a book.
• They are also exempt from compulsory military service and have a unique advantage in comparsion with other Israeli's. Sadly they are growing at a massive rate and it doesn't look as if they are going to change their ways.

CannedWorms

That is completely biased and in no way based upon facts in that subject of matter ; that is completely based upon individual views and cannot be taken into account in discussion.

As well, I am assured by an Israeli that the lowest ranking people in Israel are either Palestinian Arabs or Orthodox Jews which are only in that situation due to the society within Israel degrading views upon them. Therefore, if any "Backwardness" of certain people should be accused, people should look into their ranks within the society and where the society have put them in a degrading situation.

As a profess of sincerity, I don't liek to seterotype people, but sometimes I cant stop myself. We both may had our fair trade of bias, but that does not mean I have tried to steer the error from myself into someone else. Yes, at least I didn't call a certain group of human beings "wase of space.. backward"

Sue me.

First of all you refused to read the article at hand, instead opting to read the TCs BIASED title and call the decision of a religious an "ISRAELI" one. Secondly, Israel deals with Arabs in the same way as all other religions (with some rare exceptions of course). Unlike Arab countries, religion is kept out of courts. Israel is a secular country. I have no doubt in my mind that you're someone who doesn't acknowledge their opinion on the Middle East except when it comes to Israel. You'll refute that but even so. You can excuse my opinion as bias all you want, but what I said is the general consensus other than what you and you're excusations may think.

Care to expand on your initial point? Are you saying Israeli's don't condemn stoning of any kind? Are you saying Israeli's aren't more tolerant than other Arab countries when it comes to issues such as stoning, dress code, the rights of woman and the right to freedom of free speech etc? Are you saying the ultra orthodox aren't resented among the tax-paying citizens of Israel. Are you saying they don't read they don't get unique benefits? You need to clarify.I am an outside observer. Are you saying Arab don't enjoy the same benefits as other citizens? Are you saying Arabs don't get the same education, job opportunities and right to family live as other Israeli's? Are you saying that Israeli Arabs would rather live in another Middle Eastern country than Israel? Degraded in what way? Um, sorry dude but you really don't know what you are talking about. The ultra-Orthodox REFUSE to be educated and assimilate themselves into society. They have the same choices, the same opportunities are everyone else. So do Arabs. There is no "degrading", contrary to what you may think

I cannot - and therefore, may admit, do not have the required information as I do not live in Israel nor I am in any way affilated with it, therefore I cannot provide you with any other information except the one I observe. I have simply stated my own opinion in the fact that Israel treatment of these minorites is the reason why they are clarified as "backwards". There is no difference in groups of people ... I do not believe that an Arab is superior to a Jew or a Jew is superior to an Arab. I haev simply stated my own honest opinion to the fact that Israel is not giving these people the same living standars as normal Israelites -- or unless, they wouldn't be living in such agony.

The situation of the Palestinians and their living standrads is always attributed to Israels doings, an no one can argue about that. Of course, I have no idea of the current - real -situation, as I do not live there.

Isn't this a form of human rights violation in the form of discrimination? If job discrimination is openly practiced and no law exist to prevent that then that is in the grand light of humanity - is an abhorrent situation.

TehFuneral

I'll make myself clear, legally-formally, there isn't any form of discrimination and, via case law precedents, the supreme court has stated that the authority must act in a manner favouring arabs (and women, for another example)over jews as a means of affirmative action (if the police, for example,is hiring and is confronted by two equally qualified candidates- a jew and an arab- they must choose the arab).

In practicality- that doesn't completely happen. There are obvious difficulties in criticising the authority's mindset during and executive decision, and even though the Israeli supreme court is very aggressive- it decided, so far, to avoid this public "hot potato". On a much more important front- it is obvious that the Knesset, via it's jewish majority, is giving higher budgets to jewish cities and towns over arab ones and in a manner that obscures judicial scrutiny a lot of the times (for example- benefits to army veterans...but wait!- arabs don't serve and they won't volunteer because of the palestinian conflict!- oh well...).

Private enterprisers have also learned, despite anti-discrimination legislation, that it's very easy to display discrimination or jewish favouritism in a completely proper light. Etc. Etc.

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

[QUOTE="MushroomWig"]...and Israel is a nuclear state.CannedWorms

And this is why I believe that Israel should be disarmed of its nukes.

Keep the Middle East Nuclear weapons free.

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

[QUOTE="MushroomWig"]...and Israel is a nuclear state.CannedWorms

And this is why I believe that Israel should be disarmed of its nukes.

Keep the Middle East Nuclear weapons free.

I have stated before, Israel is surrounded by many Arab countries. This makes it practicly "un-nukable" by its Arabs counterparts. On the other hand, The Arab world is wide and open, no harm could be done to an Israelite in such places.

Therefore, technicaly, Nukes in the hand of an Arab state -to whom a country can be classifed as developed- is way more safer than in the hand of Israel. At least geographically.

Peace cannot and WILL NOT be based when one side is dominant and stronger than the other, IF Israel goal's is achieving peace then a more favorable expediant is the disarmament of Israel's nukes.

and NO, Israel CANNOT, and - I hope not! -be classifed as a "stable" country in such struggle.

You want to hold nukes and no one else should, this is NOT considered coutresy in the Middle East.

[QUOTE="MushroomWig"]...and Israel is a nuclear state.TehFuneral

And this is why I believe that Israel should be disarmed of its nukes.

Keep the Middle East Nuclear weapons free.

there is only one nation who was dumb enough to use them, i say disarm them first, but then people would come with some kind of excuse.

Wow, just damn, Death By stoning....a Dog??:|

Dude,

Killing a person is okay but killing a dog? that **** wrong.

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

That is completely biased and in no way based upon facts in that subject of matter ; that is completely based upon individual views and cannot be taken into account in discussion.

As well, I am assured by an Israeli that the lowest ranking people in Israel are either Palestinian Arabs or Orthodox Jews which are only in that situation due to the society within Israel degrading views upon them. Therefore, if any "Backwardness" of certain people should be accused, people should look into their ranks within the society and where the society have put them in a degrading situation.

TehFuneral

We both may had out fair trade of bias, but that does not mean I have tried to steer the error from myself into someone else. Yes, at least I didn't calla certain group of human beings"disgusting .. backward"

Sue me.

First of all you refused to read the article at hand, instead opting to read the TCs BIASED title and call the decision of a religious an "ISRAELI" one. Secondly, Israel deals with Arabs in the same way as all other religions (with some rare exceptions of course). Unlike Arab countries, religion is kept out of courts. Israel is a secular country. I have no doubt in my mind that you're someone who doesn't acknowledge their opinion on the Middle East except when it comes to Israel. You'll refute that but even so. You can excuse my opinion as bias all you want, but what I said is the general consensus other than what you and you're excusations may think.

Care to expand on your initial point? Are you saying Israeli's don't condemn stoning of any kind? Are you saying Israeli's aren't more tolerant than other Arab countries when it comes to issues such as stoning, dress code, the rights of woman and the right to freedom of free speech etc? Are you saying the ultra orthodox aren't resented among the tax-paying citizens of Israel. Are you saying they don't read they don't get unique benefits? You need to clarify.I am an outside observer. Are you saying Arab don't enjoy the same benefits as other citizens? Are you saying Arabs don't get the same education, job opportunities and right to family live as other Israeli's? Are you saying that Israeli Arabs would rather live in another Middle Eastern country than Israel? Degraded in what way? Um, sorry dude but you really don't know what you are talking about. The ultra-Orthodox REFUSE to be educated and assimilate themselves into society. They have the same choices, the same opportunities are everyone else. So do Arabs. There is no "degrading", contrary to what you may think

I cannot - and therefore, may admit, do not have the required information as I do not live in Israel nor I am in any way affilated with it, therefore I cannot provide you with any other information except the one I observe. I have simply stated my own opinion in the fact that Israel treatment of these minorites is the reason why they are clarified as "backwards". There is no difference in groups of people ... I do not believe that an Arab is superior to a Jew or a Jew is superior to an Arab. I haev simply stated my own honest opinion to the fact that Israel is not giving these people the same living standars as normal Israelites -- or unless, they wouldn't be living in such agony.

The situation of the Palestinians and their living standrads is always attributed to Israels doings, an no one can argue about that. Of course, I have no idea of the current - real -situation, as I do not live there.

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"]

CannedWorms

Thats funny, I have no intrest, nor I am violently bend upon that I am a simply another Israel hater, maybe a critic. Sorry, but I do not take particular intrest in such stories nor do I consider Israel the source of all misery.

However, The Gazan massacre of 2008-9 says otherwise (;

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

TehFuneral

Thats funny, I have no intrest, nor I am violently bend upon that I am a simply another Israel hater, maybe a critic. Sorry, but I do not take particular intrest in such stories nor do I consider Israel the source of all misery.

However, The Gazan massacre of 2008-9 says otherwise (;

[QUOTE="_R34LiTY_"]

Oh Israel, you so crazy!!! :P

Stesilaus

Even though I've actually been modded several times for making less-than-diplomatic remarks about Israel's occupation of the West Bank, I actually find myself compelled ***gasp*** to speak up in Israel's defense here!

Regarding this incident as representative of all Israel would be a bit like regarding the Westboro Baptist Church as representative of all America.

Yea I know, I was just trying to make a funny! :P

Actually, I would't compare our bias' when mines is based on facts and/or a consensus whereas yours is either straight up lies or simply posting something which you don't not know enough about to comment on. If you want to take my post out of context then go ahead, but don't try and take the moral highground. If you don't like the idea of people NOT WORKING and living off YOUR money then don't use words such as "at least" or "I didn't". Besides, it's funny how you're siding with a group of individuals that you wouldn't care about had they not been mentioned in the first. You only seem to be interested in defending Jews when it is against Zionism. Am I right, or amirite?

Whoa, whoa, take it easy there fella ..Are you accusing me of Anti-zionism? Sure, maybe. But I DEFINITELY do not hate on a group of people based on their cultural background or their ethnicty. Please don't pull that Anti-semitisim card on me (; . I actually did not know - and yes, I do admit I am not all-wise and all-knowing - that the group of orthodox Jews simply refuse to work. To whose genius would lead them to it - I deny no sort of racial superiority whether be Jews or Arabs. Therefore, I've only demanded justice on the grounds of human rights of work of both cases, Jews they be or Arabs! I believe that, now, you are trying to take the mroal highground. Where exactly did I state my complete hatred and agony against the Jewish people?

And no, your bias is not based upon facts - arguing that a group of people are simply "taking space" and "backwards" are not based upon facts to the matter of subject. They are, in their own way, benefical regardless of what you think of them. You are being subjective.

This isn't an argument of having the "required information to "live in Israel", but at the least I would expect an acceptable and reasonable argument that would at least show you know enough to post about issues such as the social hierarchy and the everyday life of all Israeli's. All I have seen is you attempting to "present" Israeli's as some kind of state that only benefits the upper **** You do know both Arabs and Jews are usually middle **** You do know there is no conspiracy to degrade the life of both Israeli Arabs right? Again, there is no issue with the "treatment of...minorities". You're simply trying to create an issue when there isn't one. You do know there are Arabs in the Knesset right? Hell, they go against the state of Israel all the time. If it was another country they would have been deported quicker than you can click your fingers. You're the first to bring up the subject of "superiority". They're your words not mine. Wow, you're still trying to say Israel is not allowing other groups in Israel to an equal life. Please man you really are grasping for straws here. Go and secretly ask an Israeli Arab whether he would rather live in Israel or another Middle Eastern. You're "honest opinion" is rather skewed and uninformed. "Agony"? They seem fine to me. Tell me, why haven't the Arab Spring fever reached Israel? Why Arab countries and not Israel? Israel's doings? Their situation today is based on an array of factors. You simply can't say it's "Israel's doing". It's also Arabs fault for starting wars which they lost numerous times. It's also Arab countries fault for not granting Palestinians citizenships. Tell me, why are you not criticising Lebanon, Syria etc for refusing to grant Palestinians citizenship as well as restricting their movement and refusing to allow them in certain professions?

Sure, I may not be so violently bent upon my own opnion but it is not entirely Arabs fault for starting wars they lost numerous times, Palestinians do not want other arab countries "citizenship". And Countries such as Egypt under Mubarak are also to blame for the last situation of the Palestinians. As I have said before, I do not consider Israel the only true cause of all the problems.

Israel can do nothing wrong in your eyes can they?

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

And this is why I believe that Israel should be disarmed of its nukes.

Keep the Middle East Nuclear weapons free.

TehFuneral

I have stated before, Israel is surrounded by many Arab countries. This makes it practicly "un-nukable" by its Arabs counterparts. On the other hand, The Arab world is wide and open, no harm could be done to an Israelite in such places.

Therefore, technicaly, Nukes in the hand of an Arab state -to whom a country can be classifed as developed- is way more safer than in the hand of Israel. At least geographically.

Peace cannot and WILL NOT be based when one side is dominant and stronger than the other, IF Israel goal's is achieving peace then a more favorable expediant is the disarmament of Israel's nukes.

and NO, Israel CANNOT, and - I hope not! -be classifed as a "stable" country in such struggle.

You want to hold nukes and no one else should, this is NOT considered coutresy in the Middle East.

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]Where's the sources for the basis of your argument that "job discrimination is openly practised"? Dr Tashbih Sayyed, a Muslim citizen of Israel, said himself, "Arabs are protected by Israel's democratic principles, and afforded all the rights and privileges of Israeli citizenship". Again I don't think you know what you're talking about. An "abhorrent situation"? You're basically just continuing to use hyperbole to support you're argument.CannedWorms

Thats funny, I have no intrest, nor I am violently bend upon that I am a simply another Israel hater, maybe a critic. Sorry, but I do not take particular intrest in such stories nor do I consider Israel the source of all misery.

However, The Gazan massacre of 2008-9 says otherwise (;

After considering the historic page and viewing the living world with anxious solicitude, the most melancholy emotions of sorrowful indignation have depressed my spirits, and i have siged when obliged to confess, that either nature has made a great difference between man and man, or that the civilization which as been so far taken place in the world has been very partial.

A profound conviction that the neglected situation of my fellow creatures is the grand source of the misery I deplore, and yet, you take upon yourself to convict me (through your arguements and how you respond to criticism) of being a hate-mongeron Israel. You have been throwing in your arugements as If i am in concenrend only in proving that Israel is a complete monster, and that I am in fact - pro-everything else and only anti-Israelite. Israel is not the only thing I am concerned about, get it in your head. Israel is not perfect, and will stay that way, criticism of Israel will and will stay intact as long as Israel cease to exist within the current policial system it governs.

That is a little odd. Usually lawyers reincarnate as snakes, rats, or other vermin.

... condemned to death by stoning a dog it suspects is the reincarnation of a secular lawyer who insulted the court's judges 20 years ago.

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]Idealist? Why would Israel disarm of it's nukes when Israel's biggest enemy is months away from getting the bomb? Israel uses these nukes as a deterrent. If the Arab countries or Iran don't get stupid she won't need to use it.CannedWorms

I have stated before, Israel is surrounded by many Arab countries. This makes it practicly "un-nukable" by its Arabs counterparts. On the other hand, The Arab world is wide and open, no harm could be done to an Israelite in such places.

Therefore, technicaly, Nukes in the hand of an Arab state -to whom a country can be classifed as developed- is way more safer than in the hand of Israel. At least geographically.

Peace cannot and WILL NOT be based when one side is dominant and stronger than the other, IF Israel goal's is achieving peace then a more favorable expediant is the disarmament of Israel's nukes.

and NO, Israel CANNOT, and - I hope not! -be classifed as a "stable" country in such struggle.

You want to hold nukes and no one else should, this is NOT considered coutresy in the Middle East.

Saudi Arabia do not have nukes, and Iran is in complete mess trying to get one. Therefore, technically, they both do not own any nukes .. and they simply usingit would ensure the disposal of their current leadership.

They can't even use it because if they did, it would mean an internal conflict on the region of the Arab world. Why would they risk killing their own people alongside Israel? And would those people be fine with getting nuked?

And yes, the Middle East is not only the hope of Arabs and Jews. It is the hope of way many more minorites and certain factions, which have been living peacefully in many political systems regionwide despite the constant conflicts which arises from fanatics. Israel is not the entire Middle East, there is much more to the middle east than Israel.

I also do believe that - with referance to someone - that a group of Israeli nuclear weapons are pointed at certain cities.

Actually, I would't compare our bias' when mines is based on facts and/or a consensus whereas yours is either straight up lies or simply posting something which you don't not know enough about to comment on. If you want to take my post out of context then go ahead, but don't try and take the moral highground. If you don't like the idea of people NOT WORKING and living off YOUR money then don't use words such as "at least" or "I didn't". Besides, it's funny how you're siding with a group of individuals that you wouldn't care about had they not been mentioned in the first. You only seem to be interested in defending Jews when it is against Zionism. Am I right, or amirite?

Whoa, whoa, take it easy there fella ..Are you accusing me of Anti-zionism? Sure, maybe. But I DEFINITELY do not hate on a group of people based on their cultural background or their ethnicty. Please don't pull that Anti-semitisim card on me (; . I actually did not know - and yes, I do admit I am not all-wise and all-knowing - that the group of orthodox Jews simply refuse to work. To whose genius would lead them to it - I deny no sort of racial superiority whether be Jews or Arabs. Therefore, I've only demanded justice on the grounds of human rights of work of both cases, Jews they be or Arabs! I believe that, now, you are trying to take the mroal highground. Where exactly did I state my complete hatred and agony against the Jewish people?

And no, your bias is not based upon facts - arguing that a group of people are simply "taking space" and "backwards" are not based upon facts to the matter of subject. They are, in their own way, benefical regardless of what you think of them. You are being subjective.

This isn't an argument of having the "required information to "live in Israel", but at the least I would expect an acceptable and reasonable argument that would at least show you know enough to post about issues such as the social hierarchy and the everyday life of all Israeli's. All I have seen is you attempting to "present" Israeli's as some kind of state that only benefits the upper **** You do know both Arabs and Jews are usually middle **** You do know there is no conspiracy to degrade the life of both Israeli Arabs right? Again, there is no issue with the "treatment of...minorities". You're simply trying to create an issue when there isn't one. You do know there are Arabs in the Knesset right? Hell, they go against the state of Israel all the time. If it was another country they would have been deported quicker than you can click your fingers. You're the first to bring up the subject of "superiority". They're your words not mine. Wow, you're still trying to say Israel is not allowing other groups in Israel to an equal life. Please man you really are grasping for straws here. Go and secretly ask an Israeli Arab whether he would rather live in Israel or another Middle Eastern. You're "honest opinion" is rather skewed and uninformed. "Agony"? They seem fine to me. Tell me, why haven't the Arab Spring fever reached Israel? Why Arab countries and not Israel? Israel's doings? Their situation today is based on an array of factors. You simply can't say it's "Israel's doing". It's also Arabs fault for starting wars which they lost numerous times. It's also Arab countries fault for not granting Palestinians citizenships. Tell me, why are you not criticising Lebanon, Syria etc for refusing to grant Palestinians citizenship as well as restricting their movement and refusing to allow them in certain professions?

Sure, I may not be so violently bent upon my own opnion but it is not entirely Arabs fault for starting wars they lost numerous times, Palestinians do not want other arab countries "citizenship". And Countries such as Egypt under Mubarak are also to blame for the last situation of the Palestinians. As I have said before, I do not consider Israel the only true cause of all the problems.

Israel can do nothing wrong in your eyes can they?

TehFuneral

WOW, I really can't beleive the extent you would go to exaggerate and downright lie. WHERE did I "ARGUE" that people are "taking space" in Israel. You QUOTED words I didn't use once again. How many times have you done this? The lies you've used to support your argument is ridiculous and downright insulting. Enough is enough. Why do you keep quoting the word "backwards"? Do you not think that people who don't work and are involved in events such as stoning dogs to death and segregating women from society (such as not allowing them on buses or beaches) are not "BACKWARDS". Seriously if you think these guys will advance Israel economically and socially and won't move Israel "BACKWARDS" then you are wrong. Simple. Of course I am being subjective, when I did I claim I wasn't? If I wasn't subjective I wouldn't have anything interesting or noteworthy to say.

I know many Palestinians aren't to blame. But there are reprecussions to going onto the offensive and then losing. Would it have been right for Japan and Germany to dictate the peace settlements even though they lost? No. This is a similar situation. Israel has returned land in exchance for peace. Has returning the Sinai brought peace with Egypt? No. I've NEVER heard anyone say "Israel can do no wrong". Maybe you should look at all the blind hate that occurs against Israel today and perhaps you wouldn't think people hold that opinion.

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

Thats funny, I have no intrest, nor I am violently bend upon that I am a simply another Israel hater, maybe a critic. Sorry, but I do not take particular intrest in such stories nor do I consider Israel the source of all misery.

However, The Gazan massacre of 2008-9 says otherwise (;

TehFuneral

After considering the historic page and viewing the living world with anxious solicitude, the most melancholy emotions of sorrowful indignation have depressed my spirits, and i have siged when obliged to confess, that either nature has made a great difference between man and man, or that the civilization which as been so far taken place in the world has been very partial.

A profound conviction that the neglected situation of my fellow creatures is the grand source of the misery I deplore, and yet, you take upon yourself to convict me (through your arguements and how you respond to criticism) of being a hate-mongeron Israel. You have been throwing in your arugements as If i am in concenrend only in proving that Israel is a complete monster, and that I am in fact - pro-everything else and only anti-Israelite. Israel is not the only thing I am concerned about, get it in your head. Israel is not perfect, and will stay that way, criticism of Israel will and will stay intact as long as Israel cease to exist within the current policial system it governs.

I don't think you a "hate-mongeron" (if there is such a word), I think you don't enough of the subject to form an opinion, as evidenced by your admit and vague replies to my posts, including numerous amounts of errors, accusations, misquotings and lies. I think you've come into this with a biased mindset and haven't done enough to back-up such a mindset. Come on man, I haven't accused you of any of this. But I will now accuse you of one thing; having an obsession with Israel. All I have saw is replies trying to skew the truth in order to present Israel negatively. You can deny all you want but the evidence is there.

If this is true....

I'm sure the dog is preparing suit against them at this very moment. Seriously though, these people need to be nuked back to the stone age where they seem to insist on living anyway. It's the 21st century, not the 12th. Man, it seems the entire Middle East is just stuck way in the past. Get with the times. I just have to say I'm grateful to live in a place where complete morons who are dictated their laws by delusion and irrationality AREN'T in control of the legal system.

[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

I have stated before, Israel is surrounded by many Arab countries. This makes it practicly "un-nukable" by its Arabs counterparts. On the other hand, The Arab world is wide and open, no harm could be done to an Israelite in such places.

Therefore, technicaly, Nukes in the hand of an Arab state -to whom a country can be classifed as developed- is way more safer than in the hand of Israel. At least geographically.

Peace cannot and WILL NOT be based when one side is dominant and stronger than the other, IF Israel goal's is achieving peace then a more favorable expediant is the disarmament of Israel's nukes.

and NO, Israel CANNOT, and - I hope not! -be classifed as a "stable" country in such struggle.

You want to hold nukes and no one else should, this is NOT considered coutresy in the Middle East.

TehFuneral

Saudi Arabia do not have nukes, and Iran is in complete mess trying to get one. Therefore, technically, they both do not own any nukes .. and they simply usingit would ensure the disposal of their current leadership.

They can't even use it because if they did, it would mean an internal conflict on the region of the Arab world. Why would they risk killing their own people alongside Israel? And would those people be fine with getting nuked?

And yes, the Middle East is not only the hope of Arabs and Jews. It is the hope of way many more minorites and certain factions, which have been living peacefully in many political systems regionwide despite the constant conflicts which arises from fanatics. Israel is not the entire Middle East, there is much more to the middle east than Israel.

I also do believe that - with referance to someone - that a group of Israeli nuclear weapons are pointed at certain cities.

Buddy, I'm quite aware that Israel is not the middle east. It's a small, practically invisible on the world map and yet it has been turned into a flourishing country in spite of it's challenges. Yay for progress, right?

And no, (once again) you've got it wrong. You're thinking of Hezbollah, of whom have got thousands of rockets pointed at Israel

That's what you get when you are owned by members of a backwards desert cult.