Jackson VS. Presely VS. Beatles VS. Sinatra..

[QUOTE="drufeous"]

And different fashions are usually first shown and made popular by pop stars. Anyone who says Sinatra wasn't an influence in music is a fool.

LJS9502_basic

Did I bring up fashion. No. I just commented on what you said in response to another poster. ;) Here is just a taste out of New York times on Sinatra's influence on music. Enjoy. http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2008-05-11-frank-sinatra_N.htm;) If you need more, I can find it for you.;)

Correction, it's from USA Today not New York Times.

No influence on the music industry? Sinatra practically wrote the book on pop music! He was the first teen idol, and was the blue print that the Beatles & Elvis followed to get teenage girls screaming. Why do you think rappers like P Diddy & Jay-Z want to wear nice suits and pretend they are gangsters? Even popstars today still follow the Sinatra blueprint in their fashion & attitude. Why did Michael Jackson wear a Fedora and ? Frank Sinatra did it first , and did it best. The Songs Sinatra sang are the greatest songs in the history of American Music written by the greatest songwriters in American History like Cole Porter & Irving Berlin. They all tell stories and are lyrically full of depth. 90% of Beatles songs are about drug use and cheesy teenage love songs. Have you ever read the lyrics of a typical beatles song? But the beatles were high on drugs most of the time when they were writing songs, so what do you expect? Ive read more well written nursery rhymes. I like the Beatles, but comparing their music to Sinatra is like comparing Dr. Seuss to Doestoevsky. The Beatles are kids music, Sinatra is for grownups. jess3a3

Err, where did I say that? I said:

Sinatra really had little impact on the music industry when compared to artists such as the BeatlesForever_Changes

stop putting words in my mouth.

First of all The Beatles actually wrote their own goddamned music. Sinatra was a performer, not to say I'm not a fan of him. As far as "pop music" goes, The Beatles wrote some of the most challenging and technically great pop music there has ever been. Too bad you can't hear or appreciate that. You can find plenty of meaningful and lyrically deep songs in the latter part of The Beatles' carreer - A Day in the Life, Eleanor Rigby, Blackbird and Strawberry Fields to name but a few. As for stating that comparing The Beatles to Sinatra is like comparing Dr Seuss to Dostoyevsky... well that's pretty much the dumbest thing I've heard.

And, as LJS9502_basic hinted at, those things you mentioned that Sinatra supposedly influenced are totally superfical things. Who the hell cares what an artist wears or how many women he's ****ed? You simply can't compare Sinatra to the true innovators of pop music (The Beatles, Les Paul, Brian Wilson to name a few).

The Beatles FTW.

Did I bring up fashion. No. I just commented on what you said in response to another poster. ;) Here is just a taste out of New York times on Sinatra's influence on music. Enjoy. http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2008-05-11-frank-sinatra_N.htm;) If you need more, I can find it for you.;)

Correction, it's from USA Today not New York Times.

drufeous

Okay.....you posted an article with comments from some fans. Every artist has fans so that makes him about equal to every band. I'm more interested in some innovation in music that he started. Not fashion trends. He was a mainstream artist back in his day. Okay. That still doesn't define innovation in music. His music did not divurge greatly from what other artists were performing. So I'm waiting for that response. Not fashion....and not fans singing praise. I'd wonder about the fans if they didn't.

In a straight fight I think Sinatra would shoot them all with tommy guns :P

[QUOTE="drufeous"]

Did I bring up fashion. No. I just commented on what you said in response to another poster. ;) Here is just a taste out of New York times on Sinatra's influence on music. Enjoy. http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2008-05-11-frank-sinatra_N.htm;) If you need more, I can find it for you.;)

Correction, it's from USA Today not New York Times.

LJS9502_basic

Okay.....you posted an article with comments from some fans. Every artist has fans so that makes him about equal to every band. I'm more interested in some innovation in music that he started. Not fashion trends. He was a mainstream artist back in his day. Okay. That still doesn't define innovation in music. His music did not divurge greatly from what other artists were performing. So I'm waiting for that response. Not fashion....and not fans singing praise. I'd wonder about the fans if they didn't.

No, jesse3a3 brought up fashion or fedoras. Think you may need to learn how to read a post. Sinatrahad the ability to produce long, flowing musical lines unbroken by pauses for breathing, his subtle use of the vocal techniques more commonly found in the opera and classical idioms. (Things not seen or heard in music at this time)His manipulation of phrasing set him far above the average pop singer. Sinatra developed a unique white-blues style, supple enough to express the wide range of his own turbulent emotions. He transformed the songs of the great writers into something personal by the sincerity of his performance; Sinatra actually seemed to believe the words he was singing. Lets not forget his amazing stage presence, and his career in films and television. I don't know of any resent pop starwho doesn't know the importance of stage presence or further their career in film or television.:roll: He set the standard for this and the Beatles took over and made it a whole new wonderful thing. I give the Beatles all the praise in the world. I just give credit to the legend that is Frank Sinatra.

No, jesse3a3 brought up fashion or fedoras. Think you may need to learn how to read a post. Sinatrahad the ability to produce long, flowing musical lines unbroken by pauses for breathing, his subtle use of the vocal techniques more commonly found in the opera and classical idioms. (Things not seen or heard in music at this time)His manipulation of phrasing set him far above the average pop singer. Sinatra developed a unique white-blues style, supple enough to express the wide range of his own turbulent emotions. He transformed the songs of the great writers into something personal by the sincerity of his performance; Sinatra actually seemed to believe the words he was singing. Lets not forget his amazing stage presence, and his career in films and television. I don't know of any resent pop starwho doesn't know the importance of stage presence or further their career in film or television.:roll: He set the standard for this and the Beatles took over and made it a whole new wonderful thing. I give the Beatles all the praise in the world. I just give credit to the legend that is Frank Sinatra.

drufeous

So Sinatra copied opera and you are giving him credit. That is not innovation. Making a song personal is done by many many artists. He gets no credit for doing that. Stage presence is usually something that fans react to actually....a non fan generally walks away and doesn't have that impression. So again you are merely giving examples of fan reaction. If you've ever watched other performances from his time frame....you'd see that he wasn't THAT different. He was mainstream is all.;)

Off to work now....but you still haven't given me anything unique about Sinatra.

[QUOTE="drufeous"]

No, jesse3a3 brought up fashion or fedoras. Think you may need to learn how to read a post. Sinatrahad the ability to produce long, flowing musical lines unbroken by pauses for breathing, his subtle use of the vocal techniques more commonly found in the opera and classical idioms. (Things not seen or heard in music at this time)His manipulation of phrasing set him far above the average pop singer. Sinatra developed a unique white-blues style, supple enough to express the wide range of his own turbulent emotions. He transformed the songs of the great writers into something personal by the sincerity of his performance; Sinatra actually seemed to believe the words he was singing. Lets not forget his amazing stage presence, and his career in films and television. I don't know of any resent pop starwho doesn't know the importance of stage presence or further their career in film or television.:roll: He set the standard for this and the Beatles took over and made it a whole new wonderful thing. I give the Beatles all the praise in the world. I just give credit to the legend that is Frank Sinatra.

LJS9502_basic

So Sinatra copied opera and you are giving him credit. That is not innovation. Making a song personal is done by many many artists. He gets no credit for doing that. Stage presence is usually something that fans react to actually....a non fan generally walks away and doesn't have that impression. So again you are merely giving examples of fan reaction. If you've ever watched other performances from his time frame....you'd see that he wasn't THAT different. He was mainstream is all.;)

Off to work now....but you still haven't given me anything unique about Sinatra.

Says the hypocrit who responded to a post that had nothing to do with him. And you ignore the fact that his style and voice were unique at the time and never heard before. And he was significantly different than the rest of the Rat Pack. He stole the stage. No one out there was like him. You also ignore the fact that his career in televisionand moviesstarted the evolution of music video. You bring up no points as to how he didn't influence music and are blinded by your own opinion which shouldn't be a surprise since that is how you are in every post on this forum. Did he have as big of an impact as the Beatles? No. But did he impact the music industry? Absolutely and if you don't see it then I can't say what you are because I'd get modded. So I'll stick with blind. Oh, I almost forgot ;)

No, jesse3a3 brought up fashion or fedoras. Think you may need to learn how to read a post. Sinatrahad the ability to produce long, flowing musical lines unbroken by pauses for breathing, his subtle use of the vocal techniques more commonly found in the opera and classical idioms. (Things not seen or heard in music at this time)His manipulation of phrasing set him far above the average pop singer. Sinatra developed a unique white-blues style, supple enough to express the wide range of his own turbulent emotions. He transformed the songs of the great writers into something personal by the sincerity of his performance; Sinatra actually seemed to believe the words he was singing. Lets not forget his amazing stage presence, and his career in films and television. I don't know of any resent pop starwho doesn't know the importance of stage presence or further their career in film or television.:roll: He set the standard for this and the Beatles took over and made it a whole new wonderful thing. I give the Beatles all the praise in the world. I just give credit to the legend that is Frank Sinatra.

drufeous

all of those things you credited as having been invented/impacted by Sinatra (i.e. roles in film and televison, those vocal techniques etc.) were also being done at the same time (and arguably before) by Bing Crosby.

The Beatles.

The Beatles by far.

The Beatles for sure! They're my favorite band and I don't really care for any of the other listed artists, though Sinatra's talented.t3hrubikscube

I concur.

I really don't care for Elvis or Michael Jackson.

Beatles, and I am not even that big of a fan.

Beatles because Lennon was revolution.

Definatly The Beatles

Says the hypocrit who responded to a post that had nothing to do with him. And you ignore the fact that his style and voice were unique at the time and never heard before. And he was significantly different than the rest of the Rat Pack. He stole the stage. No one out there was like him. You also ignore the fact that his career in televisionand moviesstarted the evolution of music video. You bring up no points as to how he didn't influence music and are blinded by your own opinion which shouldn't be a surprise since that is how you are in every post on this forum. Did he have as big of an impact as the Beatles? No. But did he impact the music industry? Absolutely and if you don't see it then I can't say what you are because I'd get modded. So I'll stick with blind. Oh, I almost forgot ;)

drufeous

Anyway, he wasn't different at the time. I'm guessing you aren't familiar with his contemporaries. Music videos? There were performance videos before he created them. Are you rewriting history? Sinatra did not create music videos. I have no opinion on Sinatra at all but it's up to the one claiming the influence to prove it. Not the opposite.

I'm still waiting for you to respond as to how he impacted music. Thus far, you've agreed with fashion, and said he copied opera. Now it's music videos. Where is your proof? Ad hominem attacks ALWAYS prove a case.:roll:

Jackson>>>>Sinatra>Beatles>Elvis