Katanas are overrated.

Katanas are overrated.Film-Guy

NO U!!! :o

Katanas are like superior in every way.....they'll chop up your wasabi chop n suey like there's no tomorrow! HIIIIYA!!!......wait....."Hiya" is what someone does when they do an uber kick....umm....KAMEHAMEHA!!!!!

katanas are not overrated, if you know how it is made and what it is made of. Japanese blacksmiths will work on a single katana for 6 months to 1 year, because they fold the mixture of steel and carbon for atleast ten thousand times making it more compact so it may look thin but its freakin hard.chat2

So katanas are not overrated because they take so long to make? That makes perfect sense....

swords were not folded thousands of times, they were folded dozens of times.

Each time you fold anything in half you double the number of layers. If you fold something 10 times you end up with 2^10 layers, or 1024 layers. If you fold something thousands of times not only would you remove almost any carbon, you would end up with layers that would theoretically be smaller than the atoms in the steel.

Glad my question was dodged like the plague.

Scottish Claymores FTW in my opinion :)

55" of pure wickedness

Katana sounds cool.Funny_Money

But I prefer a good sabre.

[QUOTE="Funny_Money"]Katana sounds cool.Cyrax-Sektor

But I prefer a good sabre.

Or a good Saber......with a cute lil kitty.

[QUOTE="Cyrax-Sektor"]

[QUOTE="Funny_Money"]Katana sounds cool.Celldrax

But I prefer a good sabre.

Or a good Saber......with a cute lil kitty.

So that's how you guys put that dimension and file size down there. Interesting.

[QUOTE="Cyrax-Sektor"]

[QUOTE="Funny_Money"]Katana sounds cool.Celldrax

But I prefer a good sabre.

Or a good Saber......with a cute lil kitty.

:lol: saber owns

[QUOTE="chat2"]katanas are not overrated, if you know how it is made and what it is made of. Japanese blacksmiths will work on a single katana for 6 months to 1 year, because they fold the mixture of steel and carbon for atleast ten thousand times making it more compact so it may look thin but its freakin hard.food4me

So katanas are not overrated because they take so long to make? That makes perfect sense....

yes, you put more attention on one thing the better it gets

light sabers FTWsolidgamer

oh yes light sabers are better

[QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

[QUOTE="zero9167"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]The sword second from the left here looks like it would hurt like a son of a... if you got slashed by itAnubisCraig

well i have actually seen swords that are like that. I know there is a specific name for them. Its like a khopesh or something.

that was modeled off of this:

Aren't they Kukri's?

Either way, I'd prefer double Scimitars.... Drizzt Do'Urden's sword-fighting can be quite good, if you're fast enough.

http://www.himalayan-imports.com/khuk1.html

I personally like the recurved chopping edge of those designs. Though, they're not very well suited for anything but chopping. A lot of the HI stuff is made with blades that have spines more than 1/2" thick.

Glad my question was dodged like the plague.

cameronc08

Perhaps people thought you were merely asking yourself that question. But yes, they are having a real conversation about swords, which I find very informative and interesting.

ultimate display of katana power= kill bill+the last samuraida_monstr

those two movies were awesome

[QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

[QUOTE="zero9167"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]The sword second from the left here looks like it would hurt like a son of a... if you got slashed by itAnubisCraig

well i have actually seen swords that are like that. I know there is a specific name for them. Its like a khopesh or something.

that was modeled off of this:

Aren't they Kukri's?

Either way, I'd prefer double Scimitars.... Drizzt Do'Urden's sword-fighting can be quite good, if you're fast enough.

Khopesh:

kukri:

[QUOTE="Rekunta"]

I take it you're meaning they're overrated in an applicable sense?

The workmanship, skill,and pride that goes into the creation of the Samurai sword I find to be very admirable. They are beautiful creations compared to other swords, IMO, and showed an intense dedication and reverance by those who made them and also by those whom wielded them. I've read that in the old days, the Katana was considered a Samurai's very identity in a sense.

Who knows if they are better or worse in combat than the others? I would prefer the katana due to it's light weight, blade integrity and curvature meant for slashing.

Tom Cruise could teach me. :lol:

CaptHawkeye

The huge hours of worksmanship put into Katanas was not really from the supposed divine essence of the weapon. It was done primarily to see how much metal they could continuously recycle from the sword until it had just enough to maintain its shape when you were holding it.

I'm trying to make it clear here but no one seems to get it. Japan has zero natural resources.

What are you talking about? Japan has zero natural resources?? Of course it did back in the 1400s, and still does today. Japan historically has been a very isolated culture that did not even open it's shores to trade until (relatively in history) a short while ago. There were no ships bringing goods to Japan on a regular basis in the 1400s.

Of course Japan has natural resources. To state otherwise is absurd.

And I love how all of you are comparing the Katana's effectivness against midevil Europe's knights and armor and such. Sure, the Samurai did not bulk up in extremly heavy armor because they valued mobility as well as protection. Not to say they didn't wear armor, not at all, but the characteristics of the Katana's design fit perfectly with the other aspects of what the warrior wore and how he fought. Of course the Katana wouldn't have been effective against a broadsword, it was inherently not designed to be. That doesn't make it worse.

Instead of using brute force wearing a suit of armor and swords that weighed a ton, the Katana was used effectively from a combination of skill, training, and mobility. You take away the armor of both warriors, and I would put my money on the Samurai any day of the week.

Gun > Sword

European swords don't weigh a ton. And, yes, Japan is extremely resource poor, why do you think they sought to expand during the 1920s through 1940s? A big part of it was their limited natural resources.

Just look at modern day, high quality reproductions of European swords. http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/johnsson/sword-museum-brescia.htm

Specifications
Overall length: 46.5" (118 cm)
Blade length: 35.25" (89.5 cm)
Blade width (at base): 2.25" (5.72 cm)
COG: 3.5" from cross (8.9 cm)
COP: 19.75" from cross (50 cm)
Weight: 3 lbs 4 oz (1.47 kilos)

Compare that with a Katana for about the same price

http://hanweishop.com/proddetail.php?prod=SH1204

BLADE LENGTH: 30 ½" HANDLE LENGTH: 13 1/2" OVERALL LENGTH: 44" WEIGHT: 2lb 8oz

every time i mention swords to people, they always say katanas are the best sword ever, they are constantly used in anime and everyone thinks of them as god like weapons. I much prefer scimitars or a gladius instead. Katanas get tiring after a while.Film-Guy

same. katanas aren't meant to be locked in a sword fight.

I'd prefer a regular longsword or a falchion

blooddemon666

Agree.

[QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

same. katanas aren't meant to be locked in a sword fight.

I'd prefer a regular longsword or a falchion

playstation2004

Agree.

No sword has ever been made to go edge on edge with another sword, only movie and stage props. The problem with edge-on-edge blocking is that you are putting the thinnest part of your blade up against the fast moving sharpest part of their blade of approximately the same hardness. One if not both are going to come away with either a chip or a dent.

[QUOTE="playstation2004"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

same. katanas aren't meant to be locked in a sword fight.

I'd prefer a regular longsword or a falchion

bobwill1

Agree.

No sword has ever been made to go edge on edge with another sword, only movie and stage props. The problem with edge-on-edge blocking is that you are putting the thinnest part of your blade up against the fast moving sharpest part of their blade of approximately the same hardness. One if not both are going to come away with either a chip or a dent.

I think the comment was based on the fact that with a katana, you unsheath, use and clean the sword all in one motion. The blade shape is designed to come out of the sheath quickly as far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[QUOTE="bobwill1"][QUOTE="playstation2004"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

same. katanas aren't meant to be locked in a sword fight.

I'd prefer a regular longsword or a falchion

borris_1

Agree.

No sword has ever been made to go edge on edge with another sword, only movie and stage props. The problem with edge-on-edge blocking is that you are putting the thinnest part of your blade up against the fast moving sharpest part of their blade of approximately the same hardness. One if not both are going to come away with either a chip or a dent.

I think the comment was based on the fact that with a katana, you unsheath, use and clean the sword all in one motion. The blade shape is designed to come out of the sheath quickly as far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's an online article talking about a specific example of a Viking era sword.

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_higgins_vik.html

The specifics on it:

Measurements and Specifications:
Weight as preserved: 1 pound, 10 ounces
Overall length: 38 7/8 inches
Blade length: 34 inches
Blade width: 1 15/16 inches, tapering to 3/4 inch
Blade width mid-length: 1 39/64 inches
Fuller length: 28 inches
Fuller width at base: 37/64 inch
Grip length: 3 3/4 inches
Tang width at guard: 1 3/16 inches
Tang width at upper guard: 1/2 inch
Tang thickness at guard: 9/64 inch
Guard width: 6 1/4 inches

The sword is less that 2lbs (less than 1 kilo)

European swords don't weigh a ton. And, yes, Japan is extremely resource poor, why do you think they sought to expand during the 1920s through 1940s? A big part of it was their limited natural resources.

Just look at modern day, high quality reproductions of European swords. http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/johnsson/sword-museum-brescia.htm

Specifications
Overall length: 46.5" (118 cm)
Blade length: 35.25" (89.5 cm)
Blade width (at base): 2.25" (5.72 cm)
COG: 3.5" from cross (8.9 cm)
COP: 19.75" from cross (50 cm)
Weight: 3 lbs 4 oz (1.47 kilos)

Compare that with a Katana for about the same price

http://hanweishop.com/proddetail.php?prod=SH1204

BLADE LENGTH: 30 ½" HANDLE LENGTH: 13 1/2" OVERALL LENGTH: 44" WEIGHT: 2lb 8oz

bobwill1

Sure, Japan has limited resources but that does not at all equal zero. The Japanese live very, very conservatively. Have you ever been to Japan? Everything is smaller, and for good reason.

And what of the comparison? Their differences do not at all make one better than the other, they are simply different.

Someone stated previously (the last guy I responded to) something that I feel the need to respond to as well:

"The huge hours of worksmanship put into Katanas was not really from the supposed divine essence of the weapon. It was done primarily to see how much metal they could continuously recycle from the sword until it had just enough to maintain its shape when you were holding it."

About the divine essence, that is absolutely false. The creation of the Katana was a highly ritulaized event.It was very much a part of every aspect of the process. There were even different people that worked on the individual parts of the sword throughout it's creation: the carving and decoration of the tsuba (hand guard),the togi who polished the blade,and those who worked on the saya (sheath). It was not at all done by one person.

Secondly, your second statement makes it sound like they "recycled" the steel (not recycled, continually folded and pounded util thousands of layers had been made) just so the sword would not bend like rubber. The curve of the Katana does not at all come from the forging process.....it is a straight blade until it is dipped into a pool of cold water after being heated, and the rapid cooling process creates the curve all on it's own. In fact, the temperature of the water was a closely held secret by the forger, as was many parts of it's creation.

Thirdly, the strength and integrity of the Katana comes from the shingane which is the softer core steel inside the blade that allowed it to be able to take enormous impact in combat and still be resilient. The outer layer of steel was sharpened and polished. It was so razor sharp tha the samurai created techniques to block with the back side of the blade as frontal contact brought the possibilty of chipping it. Even then, it could be resharpened.

Sorry I went on a long ramble, but to insinuate that the Katana was a poorly thrown together hastily made sword is so far from the truth it is insulting. The Katana's creation was unparalleled in so many ways.

Viking smiths created laminate construction blades, because they also had very poor access to steel. They also developed the long fullered blades as a way to extend their limited metal resources. I recall reading a few years ago that a well made Anglo-Saxon sword in the 10th-11th century was valued at 120 oxen or 15 slaves.

Many people who have been displaying a dislike of the katana are basically lashing out at all of the BS that has come from the Fantasy, Anime, Manga world in the past 3 decades. Didn't you say that European swords weighed a ton and required simple brute force? What was your source for that information?

The sword is irrelevant, the training in it is. You can be loaded down with all sorts of steel armor and a steel sword, and still be killed by someone with greater training with something like a katana.

I would like to have one, though. Simply as a showpiece. To me, katanas are more elegant than are Old World style swords.

[QUOTE="cameronc08"]

Glad my question was dodged like the plague.

JustPlainLucas

Perhaps people thought you were merely asking yourself that question. But yes, they are having a real conversation about swords, which I find very informative and interesting.

After rereading my question, I did word it in a strange tense, as if I was pondering the question in my mind. I still find it hard to take a thread seriously about swords effectiveness, and the thought and information people are putting into this. But to each his own, not judging, just throwing my two cents out there. And I like the sword the Frog used in Chrono Trigger. The one that was made my the two mutant people. Yea.....

Sure, Japan has limited resources but that does not at all equal zero. The Japanese live very, very conservatively. Have you ever been to Japan? Everything is smaller, and for good reason.Rekunta

Yeah, their's no correlation between Japan's conservative living style and its natural resource quantities. Not to mention its violent military expansion post industrial revolution.

And what of the comparison? Their differences do not at all make one better than the other, they are simply different.

Are you kidding? You're telling me you would rather use a sword which takes needlessly long man hours to produce which is as fragile as glass, instead of a typical European longsword?

Someone stated previously (the last guy I responded to) something that I feel the need to respond to as well:

"The huge hours of worksmanship put into Katanas was not really from the supposed divine essence of the weapon. It was done primarily to see how much metal they could continuously recycle from the sword until it had just enough to maintain its shape when you were holding it."

About the divine essence, that is absolutely false. The creation of the Katana was a highly ritulaized event.

Strawman. I didn't say no ritual took place in the building of the weapon. But the Japanese didn't stand around taking weeks to produce an individual sword for that reason alone.

It was very much a part of every aspect of the process. There were even different people that worked on the individual parts of the sword throughout it's creation: the carving and decoration of the tsuba (hand guard),the togi who polished the blade,and those who worked on the saya (sheath). It was not at all done by one person.

Too bad. All those wasted personel could have been put to much more productive use instead of producing a single wanktastic blade that's pathetically fragile and useless against armored opponents.

Secondly, your second statement makes it sound like they "recycled" the steel (not recycled, continually folded and pounded util thousands of layers had been made) just so the sword would not bend like rubber. The curve of the Katana does not at all come from the forging process.....it is a straight blade until it is dipped into a pool of cold water after being heated, and the rapid cooling process creates the curve all on it's own. In fact, the temperature of the water was a closely held secret by the forger, as was many parts of it's creation.

Didn't you say Japan was a conservative society? Medieval Japan doesn't seem to have been very good at it then.

Thirdly, the strength and integrity of the Katana comes from the shingane which is the softer core steel inside the blade that allowed it to be able to take enormous impact in combat and still be resilient. The outer layer of steel was sharpened and polished. It was so razor sharp tha the samurai created techniques to block with the back side of the blade as frontal contact brought the possibilty of chipping it. Even then, it could be resharpened.

Yes, after another several weeks of reforging and rebuilding.

Sorry I went on a long ramble, but to insinuate that the Katana was a poorly thrown together hastily made sword is so far from the truth it is insulting. The Katana's creation was unparalleled in so many ways.

Unparralleled in that it was needless and wasteful? Especially for a weapon that is totally useless against most fighters of the era? Yeah. I won't deny that a Katana is a good sword against an unarmored opponent, but it's popularity in modern media is absurd. Just flip on any anime or movie these days. How many macho guys with metal slicing katanas can you pick out?

ultimate display of katana power= kill bill+the last samurai da monstr

Maybe, until you realize just how frigging stupid it is that not a single member of the crazy 88 carries a gun on him.

The outer layer of steel was sharpened and polished. It was so razor sharp tha the samurai created techniques to block with the back side of the blade as frontal contact brought the possibilty of chipping it. Even then, it could be resharpened.

Sorry I went on a long ramble, but to insinuate that the Katana was a poorly thrown together hastily made sword is so far from the truth it is insulting. The Katana's creation was unparalleled in so many ways.

Rekunta

Well, the blade could be repaired, as long as the chip did not extend past the Haman.

The sword is irrelevant, the training in it is. You can be loaded down with all sorts of steel armor and a steel sword, and still be killed by someone with greater training with something like a katana.

I would like to have one, though. Simply as a showpiece. To me, katanas are more elegant than are Old World style swords.tycoonmike

I can agree with everything you say. For instance, the Battle of Agincourt perfectly illustrates that the armor and weapons, and numbers can only get you so far without tactics and proper organization. The Katana is a good weapon, and a well made Katana is a true work of art. I just get sick of people saying that it can cut through anything and stuff like that.

Of course, European knights were very highly trained. It was a fact of life in Europe that if you were a noble male that you had 3 possibilities for your life, you would be the one who inherits the manor (if you're the eldest son), or you could either be a knight, or you join the clergy. Since it was obvious right from the time of your birth as to whether you would be a knight, they could begin training you almost around the time you could walk straight. I read somewhere that it was fairly typical that a knight would be put into a practice suit of armor to begin proper physical conditiioning before they were 10 years old.

Hawkeye, I would argue against the fragile as glass, one of the reason that they adopted the convex edge was to give the blade greater strength. Yes, it could be chipped in ways that the blade would be rendered unsafe to use if the chip went past the hamon; but, I would still say that they were fairly durable, and they are a fantastic slicing weapon, few if any European blades could match them in cutting soft targets.bobwill1

It's more a partial exagertation stemming from my annoyance at people who think Katanas can cut through ****ing engine blocks. No it wasn't as fragile as glass, but it's durability was indeed lacking.

The Katana is the best sword-like weapon in Dead Rising Therefor must be the greatest sword on the planet... no no, the best sword in the universe infinity times two plus kajillion 8)Nifty_Shark

Depending on your definition of "sword-like" I would have to disagree and say the mini chainsaws (especially if triple booked) were better. Besides, what about the real beam sword?