[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]That is absolutely no different than saying "it's MAGIC! Oooooh!"
1) Is it even POSSIBLE for something to exist "outside of nature"? Nobody even knows if this is POSSIBLE, so we can't exactly appeal to the supernatural as an explanation for natural phenomena.
2) Even if the supernatural is real, nobody knows if it can have any EFFECT on the natural. If nature can be influenced by the supernatural, doesn't that simply imply that the supernatural is an EXTENSION of nature? In which case we ought to be able to find a naturalistic explanation for supernatural phenomena.
3) Even if supernatural things ARE real, and even if they CAN affect nature, HOW does this happen? Science is CONSTANTLY searching for HOW things happen. So don't just say "god can do anything because he exists outside of nature". That's a load of crap. First show me that god EXISTS. Then show me that he CAN do x. Then attempt to explain to me HOW god does x.
That's how it works. You can BELIEVE whatever you want to believe. But don't expect people to buy the whole "god is magical and he can do anything" explanation. That's just a copout that serves to avoid having to ACTUALLY explain ANYTHING.
battlefront23
The concept of God involves Him doing some things that seem illogical to our minds. Even to me at times. This is merely how I see it. I just don't think the universe has always existed, and so God seems more logical to me. Simply put, God's "supernaturalness" (:P) is not something to be completely understood, even by the brightest of Christian minds.And people used to think that lightning came from the gods as well. And for the EXACT same reason.
Again, you can BELIEVE whatever you want. And there are things that will almost certainly NEVER be understood. That does not mean god did it. God MIGHT have done it, and maybe he DIDN'T. FEELINGS and WHAT SEEMS LOGICAL TO ME simply are not in any way, shape or form sufficient to explain anything. You can either back up your claims with evidence, or you can't. That's it. And there is NO evidence that ANY kind of god had ANY part in the creation of ANYTHING.
Again, if you want to personally believe this, then no problem. But once you start....trying to sway people away from real science in order to get them to believe in your non-scientific personal beliefs, that's where things sort of start getting evil.
Modern science has largely been built up from the work done by RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. People who believed in a god, but didn't let that stop them from being SCIENTISTS.
Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort are the lowest of the low. They are people who want to STOP scientific progress because they find it offensive to their beliefs. And they want to accomplish this by poisoning the minds of anyone they can influence.
Look dude, if you believe that god had to be involved in the universe either at a specific point or CONTINUOUSLY, then fine. But you CAN'T use that belief to IGNORE science. You CAN'T try to keep scientific progress at a standstill simply because you're offended at the implications of what you've seen. Religious beliefs are NOT a substitute for pure science, because religious beliefs DO NOT EXPLAIN ANYTHING. They can strengthen your morals and help make you a better person, but they are NOT an explanation for "what happenened" and "how something happened.". That's what SCIENCE is for. If you want to propose the supernatural or gods as EXPLANATIONS for something, then you have to stand up to the same level of scrutiny as SCIENCE.
I don't see what is so hard to understand about this. I'm not a religion-basher by any means, but I soert of get pissed off when I see people trying to promote religion as a substitute for scientific knowledge. As someone else mentioned, Einstein shook the scientific community to its core. But his work was accepted because IT WAS ACTUALLY SCIENCE. A god-centric view of our universe would be just as earth-shattering, but it ain't happening because the people who propose this idea are NOT practicing science. If there was actually a SCIENTIFIC theory that mandated the presence of a god, then the scientific community would be all over that. Just in the same way that relativity and quantum mechanics drastically changed the way we see the world. Those revolutions happened because they were real science. Creation science fails because it ISN'T science. And that's all there is to it.
Faith can be good. Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort have faith. Which is not inherently a bad thing. But they choose to use their faith to attempt to bring SCIENCE back into the dark ages. And THAT is the point at which they have truly become monsters.
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