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some, yes, some of these ideas were. but those classes, truthfully, were so tremendously BAD that i thought of these ideas on my own. the best way to learn something is through experience, so i am just as qualified, just as much as you to talk on the subject.irelevent
Those ideas based off of experience? So you expect to create something that will better the world based off of your experience and nothing else? I wish you luck with that. But education + experience trumps that.
Depends on your professor. He may help you, or he may just shrug his shoulders and tell you to go read the textbook.
Anyway, Pianist made me think of a good point...he's a pianist. For artistic professions, formal education is probably a LOT more crucial since you're not dealing with an exact science. Chemistry, physics, and advanced mathematics would probably more lend themselves to self-study, since they are exact sciences. You're either wrong, or you're right. Meanwhile, for artistic professions, you can get a lot out of self-study, but I can imagine that self-study would be a hindrance.
MrGeezer
That IS a good point. For a commited individual, self-study CAN be a perfectly valid way to learn about subjects which are knowledge based. But material which has a practical aspect DEMANDS instruction. For instance, you can read about anatomy, but that won't make you a qualified surgeon... nor should you be practicing surgery on people with no training! You can read about what's involved in flying a jumbo jet, but you sure as heck wouldn't want to jump in the cockpit without a teacher the first time, no matter how well you've memorized what all the switches. And you can read a book on developing better piano technique, but unless you have someone there to watch you and help you develop through practice, the words will teach you little about developing a better piano technique.
[QUOTE="Jon_To_The_C"]"Why is a banana yellow?" is an exagerrated example. And four paragraphs? That's about one page. If I needed to, I could fill a page with theories of why a banana evolved from a cell to being a yellow fruit.
And these essays are generally used to test your writing quality and insight, not knowledge.
irelevent
You would get a D for going off topic.
No he wouldn't. If he discusses the evolution of the banana to a yellow fruit, he's discussing why a banana is yellow. This is the second time in this thread that you've missed an obvious point that wasn't right on the surface, and really, I seriously doubt that your peers who write 10 pages of 'crap' are actually being rewarded simply because they wrote more. I think they're being rewarded because they wrote something which IS relevant, and even if it's not the finest and most correct writing, it does manage to address the topic. Having never encountered a teacher who would give students an A just because they wrote a lot of irrelevant crap, I am extremely skeptical of your claim. And to be blunt, if you're getting bad marks on these assignments, I don't think that the fact you're writing paragraphs instead of essays is the only reason.
The good news for you is that you're young, and there's no reason you can't improve both your writing and your analytical skills. But you're going to have to work for that. It won't happen by 'magic,' nor by watching the history channel. The next time you're asked to write one of these 'stupid' assignments, take it seriously, write your four paragraphs instead of one, and use the creative thinking you employ in coming up with your invention ideas to approach the essay topic from a creative angle. Do that, and in all likelihood you'll do much better on the assignment than you have in the past.
Like I said before, if you think that education is just about passing tests and the facts you memorize, you're missing the whole point of education. And that'll be your loss in the end.
Pianist, I love youUseless knowledge is far less valuable to you than practical life skills like good writing, time management, work ethic, and logical reasoning. Yes, you can learn facts from the history channel. But it won't teach you to write. It won't teach you analyze (because it spoon feeds you the answers). It won't teach you to budget time. It won't teach you how to interact with people. And it most certainly won't teach you that sometimes you have to work even when you don't feel like it. Those are all things that school can and does develop. Like it or not, you have to WORK to develop skill. You can't learn to become a good writer by watching a TV program any more than you can become a good pianist by reading a book about it. Those things just HELP you with your practice.
Your education isn't just about filling your head with knowledge - it's about developing wisdom and an ability to be successful in modern society. That entails so much more than what facts you know, unless you plan to become a career Jeopardy player or something.
And you think 4 paragraphs is a lot? :lol: Hope you're not planning to go to univesity. The lengthiest paper I had to write ended up being more than 40 pages long.
pianist
I've cleaned up this quote mess. It's not at all clear who you're trying to address, since you copied and pasted the same text twice but wrote different responses to it. It seemed at first that it was all intended for Jon, especially since you refer to me in the third person in both blocks, but you later say this isn't the case. So I'll just chalk this up to a lack of command of the language and respond to all of it, whether or not it was intended for me.
Does this make you happy? no, then you are a slave who worked their entire life to acheive something that you yourself would admit is not worthwhile. I would rather be a Bill Gates (Note, i still care about Education, but i care more about putting knowledge into Practical Use, instead of smearing it into peoples faces, like Pianist does.
As I noted in a previous reply, it DOES make me happy to be a musician and a teacher. There's nothing I'd rather do, and so I certainly don't 'admit it is not worthwhile.' As for putting education into practical use, what do you think a degree is for? Whether you're a teacher, a lawyer, an engineer, a doctor, a musician, or any other trained professional, you are putting your education into practical use, which serves society and you at the same time. If a person does NOT put his or her knowledge into practical use, no one will pay for it, and it will thus be useless to the person.
That's debatable. you work your entire life, for something you yourself would call not worth it. If you want to be a leach, begging at peoples feet in order to become on top, go ahead. just remember that you begged like a dog once. and you still are one. Call me crazy, but i like to put education and Knowledge into real practical use, instead of trying to Smear my Masters degree, which means nothing more than "Leacher".
Again, I would call it 'worth it.' And I'm also not trying to 'get to the top;' I'm simply striving to be the best musician and teacher I can be. I do not compete with my co-workers, nor do I covet anyone's management position. Frankly, I prefer teaching to management anyway. You're making a lot of assumptions, and not surprisingly, most of them aren't hitting the mark.
You aren't crazy to have a desire to put your knowledge to practical use. You're just crazy to assume that you CAN put knowledge to practical use without education on the matter. Sorry, but nothing you've written here suggests that you're an Albert Einstein or Bill Gates. The VAST majority of people who find systemized education useless and drop out are actually just lazy kids who don't like the idea of work. And they tend to accomplish very little with their lives, nor are they especially happy in the end. As a musician and teacher, I bring people enjoyment in the form of music. I've written more than 1000 pages of music and have had many of these works performed. I've performed in public countless times. And I've helped a lot of people learn to enjoy music themselves through my teaching, along with helping my fellow teachers become better teachers through workshops I've conducted. So tell me again... how is this not putting knowledge into practical use?
And finally, your resentment of higher education is totally misguided. Simply put, most of the progress and accomplishments of our society are the result of the work of people with higher education. There are the occasional geniuses who do not have need of public education, but they are a VERY small minority. Arguing that a Master's degree automatically makes you a 'leech' is a position you are arguing from ignorance, since clearly you have no concept whatsoever of what is done by people with Master's degrees, and how important their work is to human progress.
I would create something with my Knowledge. somewhere along the lines of Society, we lost our way, and became an elitest organization of complete idiots like pianist. With no real Accomplishments. you are no better than a monkey. While you write papers, which have, and will be written in the past and present, better or worse.
Not if you don't learn how. Brahms once wrote of composition "without craftmanship, inspiration is a mere reed shaken in the wind." And he's right. You can have all the wonderful ideas you like, but if you don't know what to do to bring them to fruition, they are nothing. Given what I've read from you here, I have no reason to believe you're going to create anything, because although you may generate ideas, you lack the discipline to acquire the education you'll need to put them into practice. But again, it's not too late for you to realize that your education is in YOUR best interests. As for accomplishments... that's been addressed. I affect peoples' lives in a positive way with my education, and others who have post-secondary education affect peoples' lives in a positive way and contribute to human progress. That's accomplishment. Day-dreaming and watching TV isn't an accomplishment.
If you can find a monkey who can teach piano or play the Strauss Burleske, by all means post a Youtube link (there WOULD be one for something so extraordinary). If not... then I think your monkey remark may be on shaky ground. :lol:I have no idea what you're trying to say with your last sentence. It's a sentence fragment that seems to connect somehow to the start of your next paragraph. That's not good writing, dude.
I will create something that actually helps people. You think you have knowledge? no you have a piece of paper with some words on it. It's you who needs to grow out of your shell, and realise you can do something, no matter what people say. You have ruined your life this far. I hope you change your views of the world to realise it's much more fluid than you think it is. and that things run deeper than what people think of you.
The piece of paper with words on it is a symbol of many years of education. So yes, I think I have knowledge, because if I didn't have knowledge, I would not be able to play piano better than you, write music better than you, or teach better than you. In short, there would be nothing at all separating us, and that is clearly not the case. It's nice that you want to help people - but I'm already helping people, you're not. And if you continue to pass off education as unnecessary, in all likelihood you're never going to help anyone in a significant way, because you won't have the necessary skills or knowledge to do that.
I haven't ruined my life thus far. Many people would envy the situation I'm in - doing something I love for a living and doing it well. You're at risk of ruining your life. But like I said, it's certainly not too late for you to re-evaluate this anti-education attitude. Do that, and maybe you will accomplish something wonderful with your life. And I'd be rooting for you.
irelevent
Completely Agree TC ... You are taught what to think & not how to think ..
"Don't let school ruin your education"
"It's a miracle curiosity survives formal education." - Albert Einstein
soren008
Little hint to those who like to quote one of the most famous examples of a person who had no need of public education - most people aren't Einstein. When he writes "Don't let school ruin your education," he does NOT mean that you don't need an education. And when he writes "It's a miracle curiosity survives formal education," he does NOT mean that sitting on your butt watching TV is going to make you a scholar. People LOVE the idea of not having to go to school, and they use Einstein's words as the battle cry for the uselessness of education. But they fail to realize that they are accomplishing nothing simply by dismissing eduation when they do absolutely nothing to develop their intellect on their own.
If you love self-study and have a strong work ethic, you may, like Einstein, have no need of formal education. But most people who profess a hatred of school aren't like that. They're just lazy, and when they drop out, they actually accomplish nothing at all. They don't receive ANY education, personal or otherwise, and they don't develop a greater curiosity as a result. They work in retail and spend their evenings watching TV, complaining about how much they don't like working in retail.
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