Libertarians: Good or evil?

What do you guys think about Libertarians in the U.S. (you European probably have them as well).

For those of you not familiar with Libertarians, (I am a bit biased against them) they basically politicize the philosophy of self-interest over what is best for the group, and registered Libertarians have the highest average wealth of any political party in the U.S. They want government to stay far away so that they can do their 'own thing' and generally agree with Democrats on most social issues (except for gun control and welfare) and Republicans on economics (they believe that corporations should be able to do whatever they wish). What are your thoughts?

Obviously there are good and bad libertarians.

I think what you mean is, do you agree with them or not.

I agree with many things and disagree with many things. I believe some regulation is needed in business, as shown by our current economic crisis. I believe we need more control on guns. I believe most social programs are total crap and we need a small government. I'm against abortion and iffy on legalizing drugs.

Unfortunately, it seems like the libertarians who get the most press are the bat**** insane ones.

I think guns should be restricted.Theokhoth

They're idealists.Mr_sprinkles

"Idealism increases with one's distance from the problem."

-- wise words from an anonymous philosopher back during the Rennaissance.

I'm a Centrist. Too far in any direction is political "evil" as far as I'm concerned. I don't agree that people should be left to do "their own thing" in every aspect of life; one example is drug use. I think guns should be restricted, abortion should be banned, and other non-Libertarian policies. One policy I agree with, however, is Capitalism, as socialism is little more than government mandated (and operated) theft.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think guns should be restricted.Vandalvideo

Do not care.:P

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]I'm a Centrist. Too far in any direction is political "evil" as far as I'm concerned. I don't agree that people should be left to do "their own thing" in every aspect of life; one example is drug use. I think guns should be restricted, abortion should be banned, and other non-Libertarian policies. One policy I agree with, however, is Capitalism, as socialism is little more than government mandated (and operated) theft.Godly_Cure

I don't think that's what I said. . .

What do you guys think about Libertarians in the U.S. (you European probably have them as well).

For those of you not familiar with Libertarians, (I am a bit biased against them) they basically politicize the philosophy of self-interest over what is best for the group, and registered Libertarians have the highest average wealth of any political party in the U.S. They want government to stay far away so that they can do their 'own thing' and generally agree with Democrats on most social issues (except for gun control and welfare) and Republicans on economics (they believe that corporations should be able to do whatever they wish). What are your thoughts?

Lord__Darkstorn

libertarians arent anywhere close to being the richest.

they believe in voluntary actions with no force upon individuals. thats pretty much it in a nutshell. groups are irrelevant.

[QUOTE="Godly_Cure"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]I'm a Centrist. Too far in any direction is political "evil" as far as I'm concerned. I don't agree that people should be left to do "their own thing" in every aspect of life; one example is drug use. I think guns should be restricted, abortion should be banned, and other non-Libertarian policies. One policy I agree with, however, is Capitalism, as socialism is little more than government mandated (and operated) theft.Theokhoth

I don't think that's what I said. . .

I always assumed that libertarians were closer to republicans considering that libertarian values consist of low taxes and small government which are also known as your traditional conservative values.LikeHaterade

That's what I thought as well.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think guns should be restricted.Vandalvideo

I concur.

Also, I consider myself more of a libertarian, but I also understand that there has to be a bit of moderation towards political beliefs. It's easy to look at the Libertarian party as little more than an Anarchist group but in reality they just want the government to be largely limited which is exactly what the Framers wanted.

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

What do you guys think about Libertarians in the U.S. (you European probably have them as well).

For those of you not familiar with Libertarians, (I am a bit biased against them) they basically politicize the philosophy of self-interest over what is best for the group, and registered Libertarians have the highest average wealth of any political party in the U.S. They want government to stay far away so that they can do their 'own thing' and generally agree with Democrats on most social issues (except for gun control and welfare) and Republicans on economics (they believe that corporations should be able to do whatever they wish). What are your thoughts?

Super_Socialist

libertarians arent anywhere close to being the richest.

they believe in voluntary actions with no force upon individuals. thats pretty much it in a nutshell. groups are irrelevant.

The average Libertarian is wealthier than the average Republican, Democrat, Independent, Constitution party member, or Green.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/325832/libertarian_snobs_a_bluecollar_libertarian.html

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think guns should be restricted.Theokhoth

Do not care.:P

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Godly_Cure"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]I'm a Centrist. Too far in any direction is political "evil" as far as I'm concerned. I don't agree that people should be left to do "their own thing" in every aspect of life; one example is drug use. I think guns should be restricted, abortion should be banned, and other non-Libertarian policies. One policy I agree with, however, is Capitalism, as socialism is little more than government mandated (and operated) theft.Godly_Cure

I don't think that's what I said. . .

Exactly. . . not "anything I disagree with is evil."

Don't take me out of context.

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

What do you guys think about Libertarians in the U.S. (you European probably have them as well).

For those of you not familiar with Libertarians, (I am a bit biased against them) they basically politicize the philosophy of self-interest over what is best for the group, and registered Libertarians have the highest average wealth of any political party in the U.S. They want government to stay far away so that they can do their 'own thing' and generally agree with Democrats on most social issues (except for gun control and welfare) and Republicans on economics (they believe that corporations should be able to do whatever they wish). What are your thoughts?

Lord__Darkstorn

libertarians arent anywhere close to being the richest.

they believe in voluntary actions with no force upon individuals. thats pretty much it in a nutshell. groups are irrelevant.

The average Libertarian is wealthier than the average Republican, Democrat, Independent, Constitution party member, or Green.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/325832/libertarian_snobs_a_bluecollar_libertarian.html

average as in everyday peopleor the politicans?

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

What do you guys think about Libertarians in the U.S. (you European probably have them as well).

For those of you not familiar with Libertarians, (I am a bit biased against them) they basically politicize the philosophy of self-interest over what is best for the group, and registered Libertarians have the highest average wealth of any political party in the U.S. They want government to stay far away so that they can do their 'own thing' and generally agree with Democrats on most social issues (except for gun control and welfare) and Republicans on economics (they believe that corporations should be able to do whatever they wish). What are your thoughts?

Super_Socialist

libertarians arent anywhere close to being the richest.

they believe in voluntary actions with no force upon individuals. thats pretty much it in a nutshell. groups are irrelevant.

The average Libertarian is wealthier than the average Republican, Democrat, Independent, Constitution party member, or Green.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/325832/libertarian_snobs_a_bluecollar_libertarian.html

average as in everyday peopleor the politicans?

registered Libertarians, not the policymakers.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think guns should be restricted.Vandalvideo

Do not care.:P

The Constitution is edited all the time. . . .and defend against a tyrannical executive? Let's assume something like that would happen. Do you honestly think a gun would help when a team of martial law officers show up at your house and tell you not to move? You'd just get yourself and probably others killed.

It's time we moved on from something as silly, dangerous, useless and primitive as guns.

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

What do you guys think about Libertarians in the U.S. (you European probably have them as well).

For those of you not familiar with Libertarians, (I am a bit biased against them) they basically politicize the philosophy of self-interest over what is best for the group, and registered Libertarians have the highest average wealth of any political party in the U.S. They want government to stay far away so that they can do their 'own thing' and generally agree with Democrats on most social issues (except for gun control and welfare) and Republicans on economics (they believe that corporations should be able to do whatever they wish). What are your thoughts?

Lord__Darkstorn

libertarians arent anywhere close to being the richest.

they believe in voluntary actions with no force upon individuals. thats pretty much it in a nutshell. groups are irrelevant.

The average Libertarian is wealthier than the average Republican, Democrat, Independent, Constitution party member, or Green.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/325832/libertarian_snobs_a_bluecollar_libertarian.html

average as in everyday peopleor the politicans?

registered Libertarians, not the policymakers.

and why would that be a problem? being rich is definitely a good thing

Constitution is edited all the time. . . .and defend against a tyrannical executive? Let's assume something like that would happen. Do you honestly think a gun would help when a team of martial law officers show up at your house and tell you not to move? You'd just get yourself and probably others killed.Theokhoth

Exactly. . . not "anything I disagree with is evil."

Don't take me out of context.

Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I think guns should be restricted.Theokhoth

Do not care.:P

The Constitution is edited all the time. . . .and defend against a tyrannical executive? Let's assume something like that would happen. Do you honestly think a gun would help when a team of martial law officers show up at your house and tell you not to move? You'd just get yourself and probably others killed.

It's time we moved on from something as silly, dangerous, useless and primitive as guns.

Give me liberty or give me death.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Constitution is edited all the time. . . .and defend against a tyrannical executive? Let's assume something like that would happen. Do you honestly think a gun would help when a team of martial law officers show up at your house and tell you not to move? You'd just get yourself and probably others killed.Vandalvideo

We don't need guns to defend ourselves. Tell me, how many times do you turn on the news and read "THIS JUST IN: MAN SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDS HIS HOME AND FAMILY FROM INVADING FBI"?

Guns cause far more harm than any good they could every hope to cause. We don't live in colonial times anymore.

So demanding personal responsibility for people can even BE considered evil?

What kind of dream world do such people live in?

Do you honestly think a gun would help when a team of martial law officers show up at your house and tell you not to move?

Theokhoth

Of coarse a gun would help.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Exactly. . . not "anything I disagree with is evil."

Don't take me out of context.

Godly_Cure

You said that I said that I think anything that disagrees with me is evil. That is not what I said. You're taking me out of context, and that greatly pisses me off.

[QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

What do you guys think about Libertarians in the U.S. (you European probably have them as well).

For those of you not familiar with Libertarians, (I am a bit biased against them) they basically politicize the philosophy of self-interest over what is best for the group, and registered Libertarians have the highest average wealth of any political party in the U.S. They want government to stay far away so that they can do their 'own thing' and generally agree with Democrats on most social issues (except for gun control and welfare) and Republicans on economics (they believe that corporations should be able to do whatever they wish). What are your thoughts?

Super_Socialist

libertarians arent anywhere close to being the richest.

they believe in voluntary actions with no force upon individuals. thats pretty much it in a nutshell. groups are irrelevant.

The average Libertarian is wealthier than the average Republican, Democrat, Independent, Constitution party member, or Green.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/325832/libertarian_snobs_a_bluecollar_libertarian.html

average as in everyday peopleor the politicans?

registered Libertarians, not the policymakers.

and why would that be a problem? being rich is definitely a good thing

Libertarian philosophy is that of individualism (wikipedia it) and when Libertarians are wealthy people, and believe that self-interest is the driving forse in life, don't you think that they are likely to make decisions that favor them when they obviously don't need it? It's how it works. That's why we need welfare.

Libertarianism is a very broad concept that encompasses many different specific ideas. I am a very radical libertarian, but I disagree with many equally radical libertarians who believe in objective morality, utilitarianism and strong propertarianism. My main libertarian idea is voluntarism, and idea that's far more widely believed by anarchists than libertarians (though I am an anarchist also).

Me and my family (who are not libertarians) have been working class our entire lives, if that matters.

The Constitution is edited all the timeTheokhoth

Not formally, unless I'm mistaken.

. . . .and defend against a tyrannical executive? Let's assume something like that would happen. Do you honestly think a gun would help when a team of martial law officers show up at your house and tell you not to move? You'd just get yourself and probably others killed.Theo

Well, it's pretty unlikely that you would be the only person with a gun. Now, if we limit the amount of guns, then your scenario sounds likely. With guns, like Vandal said, we can police our government and give them second thoughts about trying to weasle themselves in a dictorial position of power.

It's time we moved on from something as silly, dangerous, useless and primitive as guns.

Theo

That's kind of what I said about eating meat.

We don't need guns to defend ourselves. Tell me, how many times do you turn on the news and read "THIS JUST IN: MAN SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDS HIS HOME AND FAMILY FROM INVADING FBI"?Guns cause far more harm than any good they could every hope to cause. We don't live in colonial times anymore. Theokhoth

Give me liberty or give me death.

Zentrenius

Keep the guns and you'll most likely get the latter.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Constitution is edited all the time. . . .and defend against a tyrannical executive? Let's assume something like that would happen. Do you honestly think a gun would help when a team of martial law officers show up at your house and tell you not to move? You'd just get yourself and probably others killed.Vandalvideo

You seem not to have faith in the Founding Fathers' philosophy. The Framers of the Constitution built this country around a system of POLITICAL checks and balances so that a dictator CANNOT come to power. And if one does, they can be impeached. If Congress becomes a fascist 'council,' then they can be thrown out of office by voters. Guns don't have anything to do with our system of checks and balances.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Constitution is edited all the time. . . .and defend against a tyrannical executive? Let's assume something like that would happen. Do you honestly think a gun would help when a team of martial law officers show up at your house and tell you not to move? You'd just get yourself and probably others killed.Theokhoth

We don't need guns to defend ourselves. Tell me, how many times do you turn on the news and read "THIS JUST IN: MAN SUCCESSFULLY DEFENDS HIS HOME AND FAMILY FROM INVADING FBI"?

Guns cause far more harm than any good they could every hope to cause. We don't live in colonial times anymore.

It isn't that the government is coercing or raiding civilians homes now, but to be equiped incase the government would ever do so. Guns also provide civilians protection against criminals/vigilantes on their own private property.

[QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"][QUOTE="Super_Socialist"][QUOTE="Lord__Darkstorn"]

What do you guys think about Libertarians in the U.S. (you European probably have them as well).

For those of you not familiar with Libertarians, (I am a bit biased against them) they basically politicize the philosophy of self-interest over what is best for the group, and registered Libertarians have the highest average wealth of any political party in the U.S. They want government to stay far away so that they can do their 'own thing' and generally agree with Democrats on most social issues (except for gun control and welfare) and Republicans on economics (they believe that corporations should be able to do whatever they wish). What are your thoughts?

Lord__Darkstorn

libertarians arent anywhere close to being the richest.

they believe in voluntary actions with no force upon individuals. thats pretty much it in a nutshell. groups are irrelevant.

The average Libertarian is wealthier than the average Republican, Democrat, Independent, Constitution party member, or Green.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/325832/libertarian_snobs_a_bluecollar_libertarian.html

average as in everyday peopleor the politicans?

registered Libertarians, not the policymakers.

and why would that be a problem? being rich is definitely a good thing

Libertarian philosophy is that of individualism (wikipedia it) and when Libertarians are wealthy people, and believe that self-interest is the driving forse in life, don't you think that they are likely to make decisions that favor them when they obviously don't need it? It's how it works. That's why we need welfare.

Registered libertarians average wealth=/=the average wealth of libertarians. Many libertarians refuse to register under the party.

You said that I said that I think anything that disagrees with me is evil. That is not what I said. You're taking me out of context, and that greatly pisses me off.

Theokhoth

We do need guns to defend ourselves. Vandalvideo

From the government? Like I said, even if they were to go nuts, charging in with guns blazing wouldn't help anybody; in fact, it could only make things worse for the loved ones.

The founding fathers had a lot of policies that are outdated: guns are among them.

[QUOTE="Zentrenius"]

Give me liberty or give me death.

Theokhoth

Keep the guns and you'll most likely get the latter.

Take away guns and what will change? Columbine didn't happen because those kids had an easy access to guns you know.