Michelle Bachmann under fire for controversial reparative theraphy

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"] But if they come from conservative backgrounds, arent they being taught by their friends and family that gay is bad? Aren't they already getting that message? I'm not condoning these clinics, but I dont think they are doing anything illegal.sonicare

He diin't say they are doing anything illegal.

Even if they are all ready getting that message, to hear it from people who claim to be proffesionals is quite a bit different.

IDK about that.

If someone grows up an environment where people think being gay is a choice, they might be suckered into thinking that Bachmann's clinic can turn people straight.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]Are gay people forced to attend these clinics?sonicare

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Ravirr"]

But if they willing go whats wrong with that? Its like trans gender. Its not a matter of right or wrong, its a matter how they feel. Trans genders don't feel right in their body. And I'm sure transgender surgery was just as contraversial but now its accepted. Could this possible be the same? It may be once we find for lack of a better word what makes peoples attracted to the same gender. IF they don't feel right with it, why can't they seek help to change?

Ravirr

Never said the treatment were effective now. Majora's wraith is 100% right in what he posted. Its pretty terrible. But perhaps later on it could be on option. My posts were just mainly food for thought.

Homosexual activity is both degrading and dangerous. It is estimated that 20% of all gay men are HIV positive. There is nothing wrong with helping people supress their same sex attraction.

http://healthland.time.com/2010/09/26/study-20-of-homosexual-men-are-hiv-positive-but-only-half-know-it/

@Grey It isn't like there has been definitive proof of the cause of homosexuality. Given the lack of evidence, who cares what message we send? These are consenting adults who wish to change their lifestyles. Far be it for any of us to push a life style on them they don't want.Vandalvideo

Nobody here is pushing anything on anybody. We're just attacking the idea of ths "therapy".

Also, to say it doesn't matter what message we send since there's no definitive proof is absolute nonsense. We do know that some people are gay and messages still have powerful effects on people even if there is no definitive proof of the cause.

The issue of "cause" is a red herring.

Homosexual activity is both degrading and dangerous. It is estimated that 20% of all gay men are HIV positive. There is nothing wrong with helping people supress their same sex attraction.

tonyjay87

And what is your basis for this statement?

Also, considering that suppressing homosexuals can lead to psychological issues, I'd say there is something wrong with going that route.

If gay people want to go to these clinics, then I really don't see the problem here. It's not like they're kidnapping gay people and sending them to work camps to "cure" them or something.Mario2007

Nobody here is pushing anything on anybody. We're just questioning this "therapy". Also, to say it doesn't matter what message we send since there's no definitive proof is absolute nonsense. We do know that some people are gay and messages still have powerful effects on people even if there is no definitive proof of the cause. The issue of "cause" is a red herring.GreySeal9

Homosexual activity is both degrading and dangerous. It is estimated that 20% of all gay men are HIV positive. There is nothing wrong with helping people supress their same sex attraction.

http://healthland.time.com/2010/09/26/study-20-of-homosexual-men-are-hiv-positive-but-only-half-know-it/

tonyjay87

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]Nobody here is pushing anything on anybody. We're just questioning this "therapy". Also, to say it doesn't matter what message we send since there's no definitive proof is absolute nonsense. We do know that some people are gay and messages still have powerful effects on people even if there is no definitive proof of the cause. The issue of "cause" is a red herring.Vandalvideo

So what? I do believe that ths therapy is nonsense, sends bad messages, and is not a good option. That doesn't mean I'd stop anybody from taking that option. They can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Oh no, now she won't get all those gay votes.....

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="tonyjay87"]

Homosexual activity is both degrading and dangerous. It is estimated that 20% of all gay men are HIV positive. There is nothing wrong with helping people supress their same sex attraction.

tonyjay87

And what is your basis for this statement?

Also, considering that suppressing homosexuals can lead to psychological issues, I'd say there is something wrong with going that route.

Having a certain region of ones body violated by another man would be considered degrading by most people.

Violated? How is there violation if it's consentual?

Also, saying most people think something (which you would have to back up) is not a basis for anything.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="tonyjay87"]

Homosexual activity is both degrading and dangerous. It is estimated that 20% of all gay men are HIV positive. There is nothing wrong with helping people supress their same sex attraction.

tonyjay87

And what is your basis for this statement?

Also, considering that suppressing homosexuals can lead to psychological issues, I'd say there is something wrong with going that route.

Having a certain region of ones body violated by another man would be considered degrading by most people.

Oh no, now she won't get all those gay votes.....

Chutebox

It's not an issue of getting gay votes. It is an issue of ethics and values.

So what? I do believe that ths therapy is nonsense, sends bad messages, and is not a good option. That doesn't mean I'd stop anybody from taking that option. They can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.GreySeal9

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]So what? I do believe that ths therapy is nonsense, sends bad messages, and is not a good option. That doesn't mean I'd stop anybody from taking that option. They can do whatever they want. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.Vandalvideo

It is not a viable cure (most psychologists agree that it is nonsense) and I find it to be on shaky groud in a moral sense, so I don't care if my message discourages anyone from these kind of "treatmeents." Actually, I hope it does and I don't care if you think that is rude.

It is not a viable cure (most psychologists agree that it is nonsense) and I find it to be on shaky groud in a moral sense, so I don't care if my message discourages anyone from these kind of "treatmeents." Actually, I hope it does and I don't care if you think that is rude.GreySeal9

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Oh no, now she won't get all those gay votes.....

GreySeal9

It's not an issue of getting gay votes. It is an issue of ethics and values.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]It is not a viable cure (most psychologists agree that it is nonsense) and I find it to be on shaky groud in a moral sense, so I don't care if my message discourages anyone from these kind of "treatmeents." Actually, I hope it does and I don't care if you think that is rude.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]It is not a viable cure (most psychologists agree that it is nonsense) and I find it to be on shaky groud in a moral sense, so I don't care if my message discourages anyone from these kind of "treatmeents." Actually, I hope it does and I don't care if you think that is rude.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]It is not a viable cure (most psychologists agree that it is nonsense) and I find it to be on shaky groud in a moral sense, so I don't care if my message discourages anyone from these kind of "treatmeents." Actually, I hope it does and I don't care if you think that is rude.Vandalvideo

In the absence of an example of someone being "cured" and the abundance of psychological experts saying that it is nonsense, I see no reason to believe it is a viable cure.

Also, I don't think homosexuality is something that needs to be cured. I think society's attitudes need to be cured.

[QUOTE="tonyjay87"]

Homosexual activity is both degrading and dangerous. It is estimated that 20% of all gay men are HIV positive. There is nothing wrong with helping people supress their same sex attraction.

http://healthland.time.com/2010/09/26/study-20-of-homosexual-men-are-hiv-positive-but-only-half-know-it/

Orayus

Being gay goes against nature, its unatural, if its not a choice then they were born with an illness like autism or down syndrome.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

Oh no, now she won't get all those gay votes.....

Chutebox

It's not an issue of getting gay votes. It is an issue of ethics and values.

No, it offends me that certain people are trying to make being homosexuality a bad thing an propose a potentially pychologically harmful solution

I think to tell people that you can "not be gay is downright dishonest and does not help them..

But if you think being gay is something bad, I wouldn't expecct you to understand.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Alright then, if you are so adamant that it is not a viable cure, lets see the proof. Orayus

In the absence of an example of someone being "cured" and the abundance of psychological experts saying that it is nonsense, I see no reason to believe it is a viable cure.

Also, I don't think homosexuality is something that needs to be cured. I think society's attitudes need to be cured.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Alright then, if you are so adamant that it is not a viable cure, lets see the proof. Orayus

In the absence of an example of someone being "cured" and the abundance of psychological experts saying that it is nonsense, I see no reason to believe it is a viable cure.

Also, I don't think homosexuality is something that needs to be cured. I think society's attitudes need to be cured.

Why? And how do you "cure" it?

In the absence of an example of someone being "cured" and the abundance of psychological experts saying that it is nonsense, I see no reason to believe it is a viable cure. Also, I don't think homosexuality is something that needs to be cured. I think society's attitudes need to be cured.GreySeal9

We should use science to cure diseases like cancer and homosexuality Orayus

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Alright then, if you are so adamant that it is not a viable cure, lets see the proof. Orayus

In the absence of an example of someone being "cured" and the abundance of psychological experts saying that it is nonsense, I see no reason to believe it is a viable cure.

Also, I don't think homosexuality is something that needs to be cured. I think society's attitudes need to be cured.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="tonyjay87"]

Having a certain region of ones body violated by another man would be considered degrading by most people.

tonyjay87

Violated? How is there violation if it's consentual?

Also, saying most people think something (which you would have to back up) is not a basis for anything.

It's a violation because it was not designed to go in there. Having foriegn objects shoved up that perticular orifice can cause serious damage to the body.

The fact that homosexuality is condemned in the vast majority of cultures is what backs it up. It's one of the few things they nearly all agree on.

That is not the definition of violation.

Also, you don't evn know that it is was designed at all, so you really can't make any credible argument about design.

Thirdly, saying that it is widely condemned is not a valid argument. It is an appeal to popularity fallacy.

We should use science to cure diseases like cancer and homosexuality Orayus

:lol: This has to be a joke.

Do you think cancer or homosexuality should be cured first?

this proves just how out of touch conservatives are in their thinking, both socially, economically, and politically. Not republicans, mind you...conservatives

Running clinics like this implies homosexuality is a choice, and last time I checked no one chose to be gay.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

It's not an issue of getting gay votes. It is an issue of ethics and values.

GreySeal9

No, it offends me that certain people are trying to make being homosexuality a bad thing an propose a potentially pychologically harmful solution

I think to tell people that you can "not be gay is downright dishonest and does not help them..

But if you think being gay is something bad, I wouldn't expecct you to understand.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]In the absence of an example of someone being "cured" and the abundance of psychological experts saying that it is nonsense, I see no reason to believe it is a viable cure. Also, I don't think homosexuality is something that needs to be cured. I think society's attitudes need to be cured.Vandalvideo

That's your opinion.

If some proposes a cure, then I expect to see some evidence backing it up before I consider it viable.

[QUOTE="Orayus"]We should use science to cure diseases like cancer and homosexuality DroidPhysX

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Chutebox"] It offends you people that others would rather not be gay and would like to do something about it? Pretty sure this company doesn't force you into this program, no?

Chutebox

No, it offends me that certain people are trying to make being homosexuality a bad thing an propose a potentially pychologically harmful solution

I think to tell people that you can "not be gay is downright dishonest and does not help them..

But if you think being gay is something bad, I wouldn't expecct you to understand.

This is irrelevant and pretty much displays the awful victim complex in the conservative movement these days.

Nobody is saying that it's not their free choice, but that does not mean we can't critisize programs that we find morally questionable.

If one thinks that these programs do damage to gay people, then yes, it is a big deal.

Wait, is this the same women who's terrified of lesbians because one tried to talk to her in a bathroom once?

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="Orayus"]We should use science to cure diseases like cancer and homosexuality Chutebox

That depends entirely on your definition of normal.

And even if it is abnormal, so what?

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

No, it offends me that certain people are trying to make being homosexuality a bad thing an propose a potentially pychologically harmful solution

I think to tell people that you can "not be gay is downright dishonest and does not help them..

But if you think being gay is something bad, I wouldn't expecct you to understand.

GreySeal9

This is irrelevant and pretty much displays the awful victim complex in the conservative movement these days.

Nobody is saying that it's not their free choice, but that does not mean we can't critisize programs that we find morally questionable.

If one thinks that these programs do damage to gay people, then yes, it is a big deal.

That's your opinion If some proposes a cure, then I expect to see some evidence backing it up before I consider it viable.GreySeal9

Then they were born with a virusOrayus

And what is your evidence that homosexuality meets the conditions of a virus?

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] Please provide proof that homosexuality is a disease.GreySeal9

That depends entirely on your definition of normal.

And even if it is abnormal, so what?

Nothing. Whether it's normal or not it's still here in our world. It's not like I hate homosexuals, I just don't agree with the life they pursue. But that's their choice, much like these people choose to enter this program.