Minimalism--Do you like it?

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Ring_of_fire

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#1 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts

For my first posted topic in OT in such a long time, I was just wondering what everyone thought about minimalism.  Do you enjoy the mid-late 20th century art/music movement?  (For the purpose of this post, I am not separating minimalism and post-minimalism).

Examples of Minimalism (for music, at least)

La Monte Young Composition 1960 No. 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHCaBcYabZs

Steve Reich Piano Phase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnC5DhNqZ6w

Philip Glass Einstein on the Beach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uej4dspL04

(sorry for no art examples.  Not that well versed in that field, but Frank Stella is an important figure there)

Anyways, I prefer minimalism over the previous Avant-Garde movement in music (which was Total/integral serialism.)  It is especially interesting, as the Reich and the Glass are far different in aesthetic quality to the La Monte Young piece.  As for the composers, Steve Reich and John Adams are my preffered composers when it comes to minimalism.  

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Laihendi

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#2 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

It is just a mindless reactionary movement against the absurd and arbitrary theories promoted by Webern, Boulez, etc. The serialists created a system of composition that was (is) incompatible with the human brain. They created music where there was a lot to think about, but nothing that a listener could actually perceive aurally. The minimalists responded by creating music where there was simply nothing to think about, making the issue of aural perception irrelevant.

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Ring_of_fire

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#3 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts

It is just a mindless reactionary movement against the absurd and arbitrary theories promoted by Webern, Boulez, etc. The serialists created a system of composition that was (is) incompatible with the human brain. They created music where there was a lot to think about, but nothing that a listener could actually perceive aurally. The minimalists responded by creating music where there was simply nothing to think about, making the issue of aural perception irrelevant.

Laihendi

Serialist theories were not "absurd" nor were they arbitrary. While at the beginning of serialism (that of the 12 tone system of composition, not total) Schoenberg went through great care in attempting to make it understandable by using the 12 tone system in older forms. The first 12 tone piece was in the style of a suite, a la the baroque era.  Atonality began because tonality in late Romantic music became so stretched that pieces modulated into keys that were distantly related, if at all.  The weight of the tonic lessened as a result.  12 tone serialism came about because Schoenberg wanted to create a system that incorporated the ideals of Atonality with the "logic" of tonal plans.  

Besides, not all music could or should be understood fully in one or two listens.

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dramaybaz

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#5 dramaybaz
Member since 2005 • 6020 Posts
Lil Wayne the Best, money, GOAT, SHEEP..
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The-Apostle

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#6 The-Apostle
Member since 2004 • 12197 Posts
Never heard of minimalism. >_>
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Ring_of_fire

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#7 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts
Never heard of minimalism. >_>The-Apostle
The movement in art/music started by stripping everything into the bare bones. An example of this in art, is the "white painting", which is just a canvas painted white. Can't be more bare than that (besides having a blank canvas, of course). In music, the La Monte Young piece that was posted was stripped down to the bare minimum of only two notes, B and F# (perfect 5th) with the only instruction to "be held for a long time". The movement has changed since that piece.
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#8 Oleg_Huzwog
Member since 2007 • 21885 Posts

I like minimalist architecture, but that's about it.  For music and visual arts, minimalism is too bland for me to enjoy.  I prefer a degree of depth and complexity.

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Ring_of_fire

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#9 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts

I like minimalist architecture, but that's about it.  For music and visual arts, minimalism is too bland for me to enjoy.  I prefer a degree of depth and complexity.

Oleg_Huzwog
Valid point, and I can see where you are coming from. What I find special about minimalism are the patterns and then the audible transformation of the musical material that you cannot find in total serialist music.
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Laihendi

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#10 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

It is just a mindless reactionary movement against the absurd and arbitrary theories promoted by Webern, Boulez, etc. The serialists created a system of composition that was (is) incompatible with the human brain. They created music where there was a lot to think about, but nothing that a listener could actually perceive aurally. The minimalists responded by creating music where there was simply nothing to think about, making the issue of aural perception irrelevant.

Ring_of_fire
Serialist theories were not "absurd" nor were they arbitrary. While at the beginning of serialism (that of the 12 tone system of composition, not total) Schoenberg went through great care in attempting to make it understandable by using the 12 tone system in older forms. The first 12 tone piece was in the style of a suite, a la the baroque era. Besides, not all music could or should be understood fully in one or two listens.

I never claimed that music should be fully understood in one or two listens, however no matter how many times you listen to a complex serial composition, you will never be capable of hearing when one tone row ends and another begins, or which transposition, inversion, retrograde, or retrograde-inversion of which tone row you are listening to. The very concept of serialism is arbitrary because the process treats the question of what sounds are produced as irrelevant. It is creating numerical patterns for the sake of numerical patterns.
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Toph_Girl250

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#11 Toph_Girl250
Member since 2008 • 48978 Posts
Never heard of minimalism. >_>The-Apostle
Same here.
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Ring_of_fire

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#13 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts
[QUOTE="Ring_of_fire"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]

It is just a mindless reactionary movement against the absurd and arbitrary theories promoted by Webern, Boulez, etc. The serialists created a system of composition that was (is) incompatible with the human brain. They created music where there was a lot to think about, but nothing that a listener could actually perceive aurally. The minimalists responded by creating music where there was simply nothing to think about, making the issue of aural perception irrelevant.

Laihendi
Serialist theories were not "absurd" nor were they arbitrary. While at the beginning of serialism (that of the 12 tone system of composition, not total) Schoenberg went through great care in attempting to make it understandable by using the 12 tone system in older forms. The first 12 tone piece was in the style of a suite, a la the baroque era. Besides, not all music could or should be understood fully in one or two listens.

I never claimed that music should be fully understood in one or two listens, however no matter how many times you listen to a complex serial composition, you will never be capable of hearing when one tone row ends and another begins, or which transposition, inversion, retrograde, or retrograde-inversion of which tone row you are listening to. The very concept of serialism is arbitrary because the process treats the question of what sounds are produced as irrelevant. It is creating numerical patterns for the sake of numerical patterns.

Again, it is not arbitrary. Is it over-rationalized music? One could argue so (Theodor Adorno would argue that), but it is not arbitrary.
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Laihendi

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#14 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
[QUOTE="Ring_of_fire"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Ring_of_fire"] Serialist theories were not "absurd" nor were they arbitrary. While at the beginning of serialism (that of the 12 tone system of composition, not total) Schoenberg went through great care in attempting to make it understandable by using the 12 tone system in older forms. The first 12 tone piece was in the style of a suite, a la the baroque era. Besides, not all music could or should be understood fully in one or two listens.

I never claimed that music should be fully understood in one or two listens, however no matter how many times you listen to a complex serial composition, you will never be capable of hearing when one tone row ends and another begins, or which transposition, inversion, retrograde, or retrograde-inversion of which tone row you are listening to. The very concept of serialism is arbitrary because the process treats the question of what sounds are produced as irrelevant. It is creating numerical patterns for the sake of numerical patterns.

Again, it is not arbitrary. Is it over-rationalized music? One could argue so (Theodor Adorno would argue that), but it is not arbitrary.

Serialism has nothing to do with rationale. There is no rational reason to build elaborate aural constructions of tone rows and their transformations when any listener is physically incapable of aurally perceiving the organizing principles used.
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applesxc47

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#15 applesxc47
Member since 2008 • 10761 Posts

I love it. I like a minimalist style in writing as well.

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worlock77

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#16 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

I dig minimalism in music. In visual arts not so much usually.

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buccomatic

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#17 buccomatic
Member since 2005 • 1941 Posts

i like minimalism, maximumism, kinda in betweenism and sometimes a good cathoilic or jewish schism

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Lord_Daemon

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#18 Lord_Daemon
Member since 2005 • 24535 Posts

In general, yes I do. 

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JonnyEagle

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#19 JonnyEagle
Member since 2009 • 1196 Posts
I like some of it.
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krazykillaz

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#20 krazykillaz
Member since 2002 • 21141 Posts
I like it in design and architecture. I'm not too into minimalist music, but there's some that I like. As for the visual arts, I don't really understand them in general let alone minimalism.
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#21 Brutal_Elitegs
Member since 2004 • 16426 Posts

That Piano Phase piece was certainly interesting. Don't know how people manage to play it solo without suffering a brain hemorrhage.

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kingkong0124

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#22 kingkong0124
Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts

Only in architecture.

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gamerguru100

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#23 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts
Never heard of minimalism. >_>The-Apostle
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#24 23crossdressers
Member since 2012 • 36 Posts

For my first posted topic in OT in such a long time, I was just wondering what everyone thought about minimalism.  Do you enjoy the mid-late 20th century art/music movement?  (For the purpose of this post, I am not separating minimalism and post-minimalism).

Examples of Minimalism (for music, at least)

La Monte Young Composition 1960 No. 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHCaBcYabZs

Steve Reich Piano Phase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnC5DhNqZ6w

Philip Glass Einstein on the Beach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnC5DhNqZ6w

(sorry for no art examples.  Not that well versed in that field, but Frank Stella is an important figure there)

Anyways, I prefer minimalism over the previous Avant-Garde movement in music (which was Total/integral serialism.)  It is especially interesting, as the Reich and the Glass are far different in aesthetic quality to the La Monte Young piece.  As for the composers, Steve Reich and John Adams are my preffered composers when it comes to minimalism.  

Ring_of_fire
yes
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Shottayouth13-

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#25 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts
Only in design.
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#26 poptart
Member since 2003 • 7298 Posts

No

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#27 Zeviander
Member since 2011 • 9503 Posts
I'm a metalhead... so, no. Definitely no.
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#28 metroidfood
Member since 2007 • 11175 Posts

I like minimalist architecture, but that's about it.  For music and visual arts, minimalism is too bland for me to enjoy.  I prefer a degree of depth and complexity.

Oleg_Huzwog

Yeah, there's something to be said for keeping design simple, but this just goes way beyond to the point where they're doing nothing.

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Minishdriveby

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#29 Minishdriveby
Member since 2006 • 10519 Posts
La Monte Young Composition 1960 No.7 is really cool, especially when you play the out other version and get the phase cancellation.
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#30 TheFlush
Member since 2002 • 5965 Posts

I like minimalism in interior design. Less is more, simplicity, clean lines, surfaces, no frills.
Unlike the usual ugly flobby american furniture...bweegh. :P 

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#31 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 45423 Posts
I like some of its influences in architecture. But that old minimalist futurism architecture from many decades past hasn't aged well, modern minimalist stuff isn't so bad though. You can tell the latest Tom Cruise movie "Oblivion" is very minimalist heavy in design. A movie like "GATTACA" is also another good example of the style used aesthetically in film.
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#32 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 60695 Posts

taste: yes (great cooks need only a handful of things to make great food)

smell: yes (fermented foods) and no 

hear: no (not a fan of the music)

see: yes (architecture) and no (art)

feel: umm not sure it qualifies here :P

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#33 themajormayor
Member since 2011 • 25729 Posts

It's really really horrible

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NiKva

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#34 NiKva
Member since 2010 • 8181 Posts
I can get behind it. I especially like minimalism in designing technology.
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#35 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
I like a lot of minimalist film. Jim Jarmusch is one of my favorite directors.
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#36 pianist
Member since 2003 • 18900 Posts

I don't enjoy much of it, but there are examples of extremely beautiful music composed in this vein.  Part's Spiegel Im Spiegel comes to mind.

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#37 sukraj
Member since 2008 • 27859 Posts

what is minialism

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General_X

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#38 General_X
Member since 2003 • 9137 Posts
I think extreme minimalism in art (aka: suprematist art) is kind of a crock and while I understand there's sometimes complex ideals behind it, it just never translates or communcates well the way they portray it. I feel the same way about abstract expressionism.
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#39 NiKva
Member since 2010 • 8181 Posts

what is minialism

sukraj
Probably not the same as minimalism.
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Ring_of_fire

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#40 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts

I don't enjoy much of it, but there are examples of extremely beautiful music composed in this vein.  Part's Spiegel Im Spiegel comes to mind.

pianist
Spiegel Im Spiegel is one of my favorite pieces by Part, along with Cantus in Memoriam of Benjamin Britten. Very "simple" music, but extremely beautiful and powerful. Random thought: It is very interesting how fast the trend in music changed from La Monte Young's Composition 1960 No. 7. While I find the concept in the piece intreresting, I am much more interested in the later composers (such as Reich, Adams, Glass).
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deactivated-5e9044657a310

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#41 deactivated-5e9044657a310
Member since 2005 • 8136 Posts
Probably my Favorite Minimalist Composition Phrygian Gates This Ranks up there too The Canyon
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#42 deactivated-5e9044657a310
Member since 2005 • 8136 Posts

For my first posted topic in OT in such a long time, I was just wondering what everyone thought about minimalism.  Do you enjoy the mid-late 20th century art/music movement?  (For the purpose of this post, I am not separating minimalism and post-minimalism).

Examples of Minimalism (for music, at least)

La Monte Young Composition 1960 No. 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHCaBcYabZs

Steve Reich Piano Phase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnC5DhNqZ6w

Philip Glass Einstein on the Beach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnC5DhNqZ6w

(sorry for no art examples.  Not that well versed in that field, but Frank Stella is an important figure there)

Anyways, I prefer minimalism over the previous Avant-Garde movement in music (which was Total/integral serialism.)  It is especially interesting, as the Reich and the Glass are far different in aesthetic quality to the La Monte Young piece.  As for the composers, Steve Reich and John Adams are my preffered composers when it comes to minimalism.  

Ring_of_fire
Those are pretty horrible, and the Phillip Glass is the wrong link
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Ring_of_fire

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#43 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts
[QUOTE="Ring_of_fire"]

For my first posted topic in OT in such a long time, I was just wondering what everyone thought about minimalism.  Do you enjoy the mid-late 20th century art/music movement?  (For the purpose of this post, I am not separating minimalism and post-minimalism).

Examples of Minimalism (for music, at least)

La Monte Young Composition 1960 No. 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHCaBcYabZs

Steve Reich Piano Phase: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnC5DhNqZ6w

Philip Glass Einstein on the Beach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnC5DhNqZ6w

(sorry for no art examples.  Not that well versed in that field, but Frank Stella is an important figure there)

Anyways, I prefer minimalism over the previous Avant-Garde movement in music (which was Total/integral serialism.)  It is especially interesting, as the Reich and the Glass are far different in aesthetic quality to the La Monte Young piece.  As for the composers, Steve Reich and John Adams are my preffered composers when it comes to minimalism.  

Nuck81
Those are pretty horrible, and the Phillip Glass is the wrong link

Fixed the Glass link.
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#44 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
I dig it. I'm also a fan of the avant-garde though.
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Ring_of_fire

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#45 Ring_of_fire
Member since 2003 • 15880 Posts
I dig it. I'm also a fan of the avant-garde though. -Sun_Tzu-
Early minimalism was avant-garde :P
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#46 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I dig it. I'm also a fan of the avant-garde though. Ring_of_fire
Early minimalism was avant-garde :P

Yeah that's true.
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#47 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Somewhat. It really depends on how it's used since I'm a firm believer of there not being any inherently bad techniques, only bad applications. I've got a big soft spot for minimalism when it's used for web design though.

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#48 NaveedLife
Member since 2010 • 17179 Posts

minimalism is boring and lazy in music and art.

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deactivated-5e9044657a310

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#49 deactivated-5e9044657a310
Member since 2005 • 8136 Posts

minimalism is boring and lazy in music and art.

NaveedLife
LOL
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#50 NaveedLife
Member since 2010 • 17179 Posts

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

minimalism is boring and lazy in music and art.

Nuck81

LOL

laughing at me or with me?  I am going by what he posted.  maybe I am misunderstanding and need better examples.