New Jersey to Pull Out of Cap & Trade (Cap & Tax)

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]I think that part of the problem is, whenever this topic comes up, people seem to completely disregard all of the credible scientists and scientific organizations that do NOT concur with the statement that climate change is primarily man made. It's easy to say there is a "concensus" when virtually all opposing voices in the scientific community are ignored.

YellowOneKinobi

I looked at your list. I'm sorry, I thought it was a joke, seeing as many of them are funded by fuel-related big business.

A) Provide a broader list

B) Go through the other list provided and pick it apart one by one (and not make a general, unsubstantiated statement like "many of them are in the pocket of liberal think tanks")

FYI, your link was from a website that supports the consensus on anthropogenic global warming, and posted those organizations in an effort to show why they should not be listened to. :P

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]I think that part of the problem is, whenever this topic comes up, people seem to completely disregard all of the credible scientists and scientific organizations that do NOT concur with the statement that climate change is primarily man made. It's easy to say there is a "concensus" when virtually all opposing voices in the scientific community are ignored.

YellowOneKinobi

I looked at your list. I'm sorry, I thought it was a joke, seeing as many of them are funded by fuel-related big business.

A) Provide a broader list

B) Go through the other list provided and pick it apart one by one (and not make a general, unsubstantiated statement like "many of them are in the pocket of liberal think tanks")

Please do. If you want to bring this down to the low level of partisan politics go ahead. But companies that have a stake in the fossil fuel sector obviously have a conflict of interest, don't you agree?

As for your previous 'evidence', solar irradiance hasn't increased since 1978.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

...because it's not in everyone's interest to implement policies that deal with it?

What I find hilarious is that you basically took peer-reviewed studies, backed up by a multitude of scientific bodies, and insinuated that it 'doesn't pass the scientifi method'. and then you put words in people's mouth.

Firebird-5

I looked at your list. I'm sorry, I thought it was a joke, seeing as many of them are funded by fuel-related big business.

Government research never has an agenda.

If you want to bring this down to the low level of partisan politics go ahead.

Firebird-5

You already did that well before he did.

So the law Republicans support was in the exact same scope as the one opposed by the democrats? I listened to a LOT of news and I haven't heard anything along the lines this thread is stating.

fillini

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

I've always found this amusing. Wasn't it as recent as 2006 when Republicans were pushing cap and trade and Democrats were pushing something more aggressive. Then as soon as Democrats start supporting cap and trade, Republicans start opposing it.

fillini

Yup. This seems to be a pretty consistent trend, where Republicans push for an idea as a sensible, market-based solution, and then when Democrats say "OK, we'll go with that", they're all "LOL WE WERE JUST KIDDING THAT'S A TERRIBLE SOCIALIST IDEA".

I can't recall offhand the exact specifics regarding what the Republicans were pushing for, but I do know it definitely was a form of cap and trade and that it's only now that they regard cap & trade as a whole as a bad idea, and I can also say that the "socialist" health care reform law that was passed last year definitely was almost exactly what the Republicans were pushing for back in 1993.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

If you want to bring this down to the low level of partisan politics go ahead.

QuistisTrepe_

You already did that well before he did.

I merely posted a list of scientific authorities that are in consensus over climate change (of which you then said their reports aren't up to the standard of the scientific method). Go through all of them, I invite you, I'd like to see this GUBMINT CONSPIRACY. Even the NGOs are involved I guess.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

Why is Mars experiencing global warming similar to the Earth?

YellowOneKinobi

Here you go:

"The empirical evidence isn't conclusive on whether global warming is happening on Mars. However, to answer the question on whether the sun is causing Earth's global warming, there is plentiful data on solar activity and Earth's climate. Many papers have examined this data, concludingthe correlation between sun and climate ended in the 70's when the modern global warming trend began.

So the argument that Martian warming disproves anthropogenic global warming fails on two points - there is little empirical evidence that Mars is warming and Mars' climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo, not solar variations."

Moreover, his views contradict much of the peer reviewed research that I provided in my link, which shows that Mars' climate is driven primarely by dust and albedo, not solar variations. There's really little reason to believe what Mr. Abdussamatov is saying.

HERE you go.YellowOneKinobi

You do realize page two of that article is a laundry list of reasons why Abdussamatov's theory is all-but-certainly wrong?

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/index.htm

Academia Brasiliera de Ciências (Bazil)
Royal Society of Canada
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Academié des Sciences (France)
Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
Indian National Science Academy
Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
Science Council of Japan
Russian Academy of Sciences
Royal Society (United Kingdom)
National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)
Australian Academy of Sciences
Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
Caribbean Academy of Sciences
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Royal Irish Academy
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
Royal Society of the United Kingdom (RS)
American Geophysical Union (AGU)
American Institute of Physics (AIP)
National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)
American Meteorological Society (AMS)
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)

QuistisTrepe_

Science is now determined by consensus. The things I learn at Gamespot.

I can't wait until im old enough to move out of new jersey.