Not allowing elderly women to work at Hooters is job discrimination?

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surrealnumber5

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#51 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]

It is discriminatory but legally so. You are allowed to not hire someone because of their age if the job requires a certain age range. Are there many grannies that want to sport the red hotpants? :lol:

Pirate700

Does waitressing require the employee to be young? Or does a Hooters girl's "job" consist of more than just being a waitress?

The hooters job require you to be more than a waitress. You have to be flirtatious and somewhat attractive to the general customer.

having "fluffer" on your resume always helps when the check comes around

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Palantas

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#52 Palantas
Member since 2002 • 15329 Posts

I think there's a big difference between airplane attendants and hooters. Hooters is for looking at girls in booty shorts who are probably single moms and need to make a buck but haven't been degraded so far as to stripping yet. You go there expecting T&A. You go on a plane expecting to be taken from point A to point B.XilePrincess

You clearly have different expectations in your flight experience than I do.

The hooters job require you to be more than a waitress. You have to be flirtatious and somewhat attractive to the general customer.

Pirate700

You have to be somewhat hot to justify anyone going to Hooters and paying for their s***ty food.

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Pirate700

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#53 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

The hooters job require you to be more than a waitress. You have to be flirtatious and somewhat attractive to the general customer.

Palantas

You have to be somewhat hot to justify anyone going to Hooters and paying for their s***ty food.

Their OVERPRICED crap food. The whole deal with Hooters is stupid. The only people that eat there are the demographic of guys that are too scared to go to a strip club.

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MrGeezer

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#54 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
Then they'd be turned down because they can't do the job, not because they're old.thegerg
Exactly. If part of the job is being an attractive young woman, then an old lady can't do that job.

I notice that you still haven't answered whether or not it's illegal for a restaurant to turn down an applicant because they're old.
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MrGeezer

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#55 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]Then they'd be turned down because they can't do the job, not because they're old.MrGeezer
Exactly. If part of the job is being an attractive young woman, then an old lady can't do that job.

I notice that you still haven't answered whether or not it's illegal for a restaurant to turn down an applicant because they're old.

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Pirate700

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#56 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

I notice that you still haven't answered whether or not it's illegal for a restaurant to turn down an applicant because they're old.MrGeezer
It's not illegal for the reasons mentioned.

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Tykain

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#57 Tykain
Member since 2008 • 3887 Posts
The application for Hooters is actually fairly simple, they hand you a bra & say 'here, fill this out'
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MrGeezer

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#58 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"] I notice that you still haven't answered whether or not it's illegal for a restaurant to turn down an applicant because they're old.Pirate700

It's not illegal for the reasons mentioned.

Can you cite a source?
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Pirate700

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#59 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"] I notice that you still haven't answered whether or not it's illegal for a restaurant to turn down an applicant because they're old.MrGeezer

It's not illegal for the reasons mentioned.

Can you cite a source?

You need a source for it being legal to not hire someone due to age if they can't do the job because of it? That's basic business 101.

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MrGeezer

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#60 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="Pirate700"]It's not illegal for the reasons mentioned.

Pirate700

Can you cite a source?

You need a source for it being legal to not hire someone due to age if they can't do the job because of it? That's basic business 101.

I do know that a restaurant can't say "your job requires you to not be black", and then refuse to hire all black applicants on the basis that "they can't do the job". Now I'd like to see a source showing that restaurants ARE allowed to say "your job is to not be old", and then to refuse hiring all old people on the basis that "they can't do the job".
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Pirate700

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#61 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"] Can you cite a source?MrGeezer

You need a source for it being legal to not hire someone due to age if they can't do the job because of it? That's basic business 101.

I do know that a restaurant can't say "your job requires you to not be black", and then refuse to hire all black applicants on the basis that "they can't do the job". Now I'd like to see a source showing that restaurants ARE allowed to say "your job is to not be old", and then to refuse hiring all old people on the basis that "they can't do the job".

Because being black doesn't inhibit one's ability to do a job. Being an old granny does stop you from being a young, attractive (usually), firm breasted girl that people want to see in orange hotpants while eating.

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MrGeezer

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#62 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
Because being black doesn't inhibit one's ability to do a job. Pirate700
Sure would if your business model revolves around catering to those who don't want to be around black people. Furthermore, if you're projecting an image of "authentic Mexican" or "authentic Japanese", it may actually make sense to only hire Mexicans and Japanese people, and to immediately reject all black applicants. Yet, last I heard, discrimination based on race was illegal for the restaurant industry. Are exceptions given for "theme" restaurants? If a restaurant's theme is old time English, then is THAT restaurant excluded from anti-discrimination laws and allowed to turn down all black applicants? Can ALL restaurants refuse to hire old people, or only waitresses like Hooters that try to have the "theme" of sexy (well, maybe "sexy" is the wrong word) staff? I've gotta leave for a while. Hopefully when I get back, someone will have actually posted a source who it's legal to discriminate against, and when.
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Pirate700

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#63 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]Because being black doesn't inhibit one's ability to do a job. MrGeezer
Sure would if your business model revolves around catering to those who don't want to be around black people. Furthermore, if you're projecting an image of "authentic Mexican" or "authentic Japanese", it may actually make sense to only hire Mexicans and Japanese people, and to immediately reject all black applicants. Yet, last I heard, discrimination based on race was illegal for the restaurant industry. Are exceptions given for "theme" restaurants? If a restaurant's theme is old time English, then is THAT restaurant excluded from anti-discrimination laws and allowed to turn down all black applicants? Can ALL restaurants refuse to hire old people, or only waitresses like Hooters that try to have the "theme" of sexy (well, maybe "sexy" is the wrong word) staff? I've gotta leave for a while. Hopefully when I get back, someone will have actually posted a source who it's legal to discriminate against, and when.

I get what you're saying but it's not legal when it comes to race. It is when it comes to age as they're physically unable to be what they're looking for. I guess age is seen as less of a discrimination issue since everyone ages. The bottom line is, places are going to hire who/what they want, legal or otherwise, as it's impossible to prove why someone was or wasn't hired.

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T_REX305

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#64 T_REX305
Member since 2010 • 11304 Posts

Who knows Someone might have a thing for elderly women...

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jimmyjammer69

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#65 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts

But I don't want to see pendulous, wrinkly **** while I'm trying to eat.

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Pirate700

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#66 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

Who knows Someone might have a thing for elderly women...

T_REX305

A lot of people do actually. It's not a high enough percentage of people that want to see it though. Most would lose their lunch if they saw little Granny Goodkins with her ass sagging out of booty shorts. :lol:

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LegitGamer3212

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#67 LegitGamer3212
Member since 2008 • 1619 Posts

[QUOTE="T_REX305"]

Who knows Someone might have a thing for elderly women...

Pirate700

A lot of people do actually. It's not a high enough percentage of people that want to see it though. Most would lose their lunch if they saw little Granny Goodkins with her ass sagging out of booty shorts. :lol:

I'd puke. I guess we can conclude that jobs always discriminate and it's impossible to prove why he or she wasn't hired. I doubt a moving company would hire a 120 pound 5 feet guy, they'll rather hire a tall muscular guy.

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Sunfyre7896

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#68 Sunfyre7896
Member since 2011 • 1644 Posts

So is not hiring men. Saw it on an episode of King of the Hill. . . We should try and then sue. LOL

Would you really want to see some woman in her 60's with saggy t**s? Not I said the fly.

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Setsa

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#69 Setsa
Member since 2005 • 8431 Posts
[QUOTE="XilePrincess"]I think there's a big difference between airplane attendants and hooters. Hooters is for looking at girls in booty shorts who are probably single moms and need to make a buck but haven't been degraded so far as to stripping yet. You go there expecting T&A. You go on a plane expecting to be taken from point A to point B. What Hooters sells is attractive women, so therefore it is not discriminatory to look for somebody to fit their business model. It's not discriminating to not hire people at hooters because they're old. Part of the job requirements are to be hot, that's part of their business model so it's really no different than a doctor being required to have a medical license. It is discrimination not to hire old people on planes because there is nowhere on any major airline where the objective or gimmick of the airline is T&A and hotties. It's paying 600 bucks for a point A to point B trip and a baby sized bag of crap pretzels. You don't need to be hot to do that, being hot is not part of the job. Does that make sense, or am I confusing?

/thread at the second post. If every job discriminated based upon physical aesthetics as much as the OP desires, then anyone who isn't an epitome of the ideals backed by the general media would be out of a job :lol:
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SquirrelTamer

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#70 SquirrelTamer
Member since 2011 • 1185 Posts

I think hooters would lose alot of customers so it's not an issue of discrimination really.

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MrGeezer

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#72 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
I get what you're saying but it's not legal when it comes to race. It is when it comes to age as they're physically unable to be what they're looking for. I guess age is seen as less of a discrimination issue since everyone ages. The bottom line is, places are going to hire who/what they want, legal or otherwise, as it's impossible to prove why someone was or wasn't hired.Pirate700
Yeah...I'm pretty sure it's not legal when it comes to race. I was just asking for actual proof if it is or isn't legal when it comes to age as well. And I'm not saying that you're wrong, but surely you understand why I'm not going to just take anybody's word on it. But that's the last I'm gonna talk about that. If I care enough (and I don't), I'll apparently just have to find a reliable source for myself instead of getting you guys to do the work for me. But you are right about one thing. In practical terms, it probably doesn't even matter if it's legal or not to refuse hiring a waitress because she's old. Even if it is illegal, then a place like Hooters shouldn't have any problem only hiring young people anyway. It's easy enough to come up with a legal reason for not hiring someone in order to mask an illegal reason. A waitress might have illegally been turned down because of her age, but no one's going to SAY that's why she was rejected. Likewise if you don't want to hire any black waiters. You could probably avoid hiring any black waiters without actually coming out and saying "we refuse to hire black people."
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TheHighWind

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#73 TheHighWind
Member since 2003 • 5724 Posts

My dad is old and he can't get a job to save his life. Why won't they hire him? Too old. Well, it seems like people will descriminate anyways. He was a brick layer and they wouldn't hire him because he is a high risk for a heart attack. He tried all these other different jobs but they still wont hire him.

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MrGeezer

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#74 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
[QUOTE="thegerg"] Can you cite a source that says it's not illegal to wear a red shirt on Tuesday?

Sure, if I wanted to. I'd simply look up laws pertaining to how one can or can't dress, and then see if wearing a red dress on Tuesday violates any of those laws. I'm not going to though, because I'm lazy. And also because I'm not making any claims as to the legality of wearing red shirts on Tuesday.
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Setsa

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#76 Setsa
Member since 2005 • 8431 Posts

My dad is old and he can't get a job to save his life. Why won't they hire him? Too old. Well, it seems like people will descriminate anyways. He was a brick layer and they wouldn't hire him because he is a high risk for a heart attack. He tried all these other different jobs but they still wont hire him.

TheHighWind
Ageism :/ My dad isn't even old, yet he always has stories about how people his age are getting phased out because corporations want people that are up to date and on the edge of technology and the latest methods of providing such a service.
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The_Gaming_Baby

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#77 The_Gaming_Baby
Member since 2010 • 6425 Posts

Not allowing a guy to work in a store that measures breasts is sexist?

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MrGeezer

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#78 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="thegerg"] Can you cite a source that says it's not illegal to wear a red shirt on Tuesday?

Sure, if I wanted to. I'd simply look up laws pertaining to how one can or can't dress, and then see if wearing a red dress on Tuesday violates any of those laws. I'm not going to though, because I'm lazy. And also because I'm not making any claims as to the legality of wearing red shirts on Tuesday.

There is a difference between citing a source that doesn't outlaw X and a source that states that X is not illegal, whether X is wearing a red shirt or not hiring old folks because their age hinders their job performance.

Alright then, let me change the question. Can you show that it is legal to refuse to hire a waitress because she's old?
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SquirrelTamer

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#80 SquirrelTamer
Member since 2011 • 1185 Posts

Is it discrimination to not let an old woman become a porn star?

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Setsa

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#82 Setsa
Member since 2005 • 8431 Posts
[QUOTE="Setsa"][QUOTE="TheHighWind"]

My dad is old and he can't get a job to save his life. Why won't they hire him? Too old. Well, it seems like people will descriminate anyways. He was a brick layer and they wouldn't hire him because he is a high risk for a heart attack. He tried all these other different jobs but they still wont hire him.

thegerg
Ageism :/ My dad isn't even old, yet he always has stories about how people his age are getting phased out because corporations want people that are up to date and on the edge of technology and the latest methods of providing such a service.

Good stuff. I want the people with whom I do business to be up-to-date on the latest technologies and methods.

It's feasible and wise for the corporation, yes, but if it's every companies idea to can people before they hit retirement, then there's a problem in the system where people are being exploited based upon attributes that don't necessarily dictate productivity nor wisdom.
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#84 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

That's not job discrimination, that's mercy on the rest of us.

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Setsa

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#85 Setsa
Member since 2005 • 8431 Posts
[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="Setsa"][QUOTE="thegerg"] Good stuff. I want the people with whom I do business to be up-to-date on the latest technologies and methods.

It's feasible and wise for the corporation, yes, but if it's every companies idea to can people before they hit retirement, then there's a problem in the system where people are being exploited based upon attributes that don't necessarily dictate productivity nor wisdom.

Simply because people are being fired before retirement doesn't mean that they are being exploited. It means that their labor is not as valuable and/or affordable as that of others. I would also argue that replacing employees that aren't up to date and familiar with the latest methods with those that are up to date and familiar with the latest methods actually increases productivity.

But then you're sundering the fact that your employees are... you know, human. It's generally socially frowned upon to blatantly screw over each subsequent generation of employees in order to turn a slightly higher yield in profits, though I suppose the ethical justification of such decisions lie wholly in the hands and hearts of the reigning individuals, not people on forums :P
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surrealnumber5

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#87 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

I think hooters would lose alot of customers so it's not an issue of discrimination really.

SquirrelTamer
i thought businesses losing business was the whole purpose of protectionist laws.
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surrealnumber5

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#88 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

That's not job discrimination, that's mercy on the rest of us.

sonicare
sounds like a crazed gunman, what are you talking about here sonicare?
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poptart

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#89 poptart
Member since 2003 • 7298 Posts

No, I doubt very much in the case of employment law as unless they were some extremely hot GILF then they'd be unlikely to be able to fulfill the expectations as set by Hooters. It's a role where the principal requirement is a particular asthetic, and any such front-end position which is in essence the face of the company would be hard to argue discrimination. Companies need to uphold their brand, and forcing the hand of a firm to employ someone unsuitable would only serve to weaken their brand and thus be detrimental to the business as a whole. Common sense I'm sure would prevail.

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surrealnumber5

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#90 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

No, I doubt very much in the case of employment law as unless they were some extremely hot GILF then they'd be unlikely to be able to fulfill the expectations as set by Hooters. It's a role where the principal requirement is a particulkar asthetic, and any such front-end position which is in essence the face of the company would be hard to argue discrimination. Companies need to uphold there brand, and forcing the hand of a firm to employ someone unsuitable would only serve to weaken their brand and this be detrimental to the business as a whole. Common sense I'm sure would prevail.

poptart
i never got to read that reply you made to me in that topic i meant to reply to... i could search my history but i would rather just be lazy and say sorry.
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drufeous

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#91 drufeous
Member since 2004 • 2535 Posts

Has an old woman ever applied to Hooters? What about fat chicks? Don't see many of those working there. (thank god):twisted:

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poptart

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#92 poptart
Member since 2003 • 7298 Posts

[QUOTE="poptart"]

No, I doubt very much in the case of employment law as unless they were some extremely hot GILF then they'd be unlikely to be able to fulfill the expectations as set by Hooters. It's a role where the principal requirement is a particulkar asthetic, and any such front-end position which is in essence the face of the company would be hard to argue discrimination. Companies need to uphold there brand, and forcing the hand of a firm to employ someone unsuitable would only serve to weaken their brand and this be detrimental to the business as a whole. Common sense I'm sure would prevail.

surrealnumber5

i never got to read that reply you made to me in that topic i meant to reply to... i could search my history but i would rather just be lazy and say sorry.

Ah no worries at all fella - Being in different time zones conversations can become rather protracted anyway!

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Phaze-Two

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#93 Phaze-Two
Member since 2009 • 3444 Posts

if eledrly women were allowed to work at hooters id totally go just for the lulz

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MistressMinako

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#94 MistressMinako
Member since 2008 • 45964 Posts

I would say why not hire them.. there is mature videos out there so I am sure somebody likes that kind of stuff but.... yeah even if she did get hired, she better not complain when drunk jerks make jokes in front of her.

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SquirrelTamer

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#95 SquirrelTamer
Member since 2011 • 1185 Posts
[QUOTE="sonicare"]

That's not job discrimination, that's mercy on the rest of us.

surrealnumber5
sounds like a crazed gunman, what are you talking about here sonicare?

nah he's right for sure
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MrGeezer

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#96 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

No, I doubt very much in the case of employment law as unless they were some extremely hot GILF then they'd be unlikely to be able to fulfill the expectations as set by Hooters. It's a role where the principal requirement is a particular asthetic, and any such front-end position which is in essence the face of the company would be hard to argue discrimination. Companies need to uphold their brand, and forcing the hand of a firm to employ someone unsuitable would only serve to weaken their brand and thus be detrimental to the business as a whole. Common sense I'm sure would prevail.

poptart
Hooters is a restaurant. The employees are servers, not models. Over-40 servers (who are protected by the ADEA) manage to do quite a good job of performing the services required of servers at restaurants. So We'd have to establish that being young is indeed a bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ). So. IS age a bona fide occupational qualification in the case of Hooters? I don't know. Do BFOQ claims usually hold up in the case of discrimination based on sex appeal?
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poptart

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#97 poptart
Member since 2003 • 7298 Posts

[QUOTE="poptart"]

No, I doubt very much in the case of employment law as unless they were some extremely hot GILF then they'd be unlikely to be able to fulfill the expectations as set by Hooters. It's a role where the principal requirement is a particular asthetic, and any such front-end position which is in essence the face of the company would be hard to argue discrimination. Companies need to uphold their brand, and forcing the hand of a firm to employ someone unsuitable would only serve to weaken their brand and thus be detrimental to the business as a whole. Common sense I'm sure would prevail.

MrGeezer

Hooters is a restaurant. The employees are servers, not models. Over-40 servers (who are protected by the ADEA) manage to do quite a good job of performing the services required of servers at restaurants. So We'd have to establish that being young is indeed a bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ). So. IS age a bona fide occupational qualification in the case of Hooters? I don't know. Do BFOQ claims usually hold up in the case of discrimination based on sex appeal?

Being from not round your parts I confess I don't know much about Hooters, although I understand/assume Hooters chicks are one of the main draws. In that regard you could say it's a themed restaurant, and those who unable to comply with said theme irrespective of how efficient they may be at waitering unfortunately wouldn't be eligible for the position. Age yes probably is a factor, although that's probably packaged as asthetics as the 2 are of course linked. The key thing here is protecting a culture both internally and the ethos which the brand projects to the public. In that regard it's unlikely a 60 year would fit the bill at all. A judge with a little common sense would chuck it out before it got anywhere near court.

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GD-1369211121

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#98 GD-1369211121
Member since 2006 • 4087 Posts
[QUOTE="XilePrincess"]I think there's a big difference between airplane attendants and hooters. Hooters is for looking at girls in booty shorts who are probably single moms and need to make a buck but haven't been degraded so far as to stripping yet. You go there expecting T&A. You go on a plane expecting to be taken from point A to point B. What Hooters sells is attractive women, so therefore it is not discriminatory to look for somebody to fit their business model. It's not discriminating to not hire people at hooters because they're old. Part of the job requirements are to be hot, that's part of their business model so it's really no different than a doctor being required to have a medical license. It is discrimination not to hire old people on planes because there is nowhere on any major airline where the objective or gimmick of the airline is T&A and hotties. It's paying 600 bucks for a point A to point B trip and a baby sized bag of crap pretzels. You don't need to be hot to do that, being hot is not part of the job. Does that make sense, or am I confusing?

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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sonofsmeagle

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#99 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts

Not allowing elderly women to work at hooters is a service to humanity

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taterfrickintot

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#100 taterfrickintot
Member since 2008 • 2851 Posts

no.