Obama and Gun Rights

Its called incrementalism... If the government came out and said "okay citizens..we are going to tax 20-30% of the money that you make and call it an income tax" there would be a revolt..it started at 1% because people would not be as opposed to it. The same idea goes for guns..they aren't going to come out and ban guns instantly, they are going to slowly take away peoples rights until they can't have guns anymore.

Gun violence has alot to do with the culture of people living in poorer places like Detroit and Flint, Michigan. They would be voilent whether they had guns or not.

hoola

So instead of getting shot people will be brutally beaten or stabbed.

[QUOTE="mastershake575"]I really don't like obama's views on guns. He's voted for 11 anti-gun laws in his sort term in office, is endorsed by some of the biggest anti-gun/anti-hunting and if he can't ban guns he'll ban the next best thing.......... ammo that can go through a police vest. Sounds familiar doesn't it ? Mr_sprinkles

You don't realise that almost all centerfire rifle rounds, many shotgun rounds and even many pistol rounds will penetrate the soft body armour that police wear. What they wear is designed to stop knives and small caliber pistol rounds, such as the .380, .25acp, 9mm, .22lr etc, which are the ones that officers most commonly encounter.

[QUOTE="hoola"]

Its called incrementalism... If the government came out and said "okay citizens..we are going to tax 20-30% of the money that you make and call it an income tax" there would be a revolt..it started at 1% because people would not be as opposed to it. The same idea goes for guns..they aren't going to come out and ban guns instantly, they are going to slowly take away peoples rights until they can't have guns anymore.

Gun violence has alot to do with the culture of people living in poorer places like Detroit and Flint, Michigan. They would be voilent whether they had guns or not.

-Austin-

So instead of getting shot people will be brutally beaten or stabbed.

Maybe. But common sense tells me less. Tools that make things easy also can make things common. Would people still go to Australia for a vacation if planes weren't invented? I mean they could still go by boat, right? Yeah they would... but a lot less would bother.

Never mind that the guns aren't the only problem. Maybe instead of saying "they'd just be killed another way", maybe you should ask why there's so much damn violence in America.

Gun violence has alot to do with the culture of people living in poorer places like Detroit and Flint, Michigan. They would be voilent whether they had guns or not.

hoola

That is totally wrong, you should watch "bowling for columbine"

Never mind that the guns aren't the only problem. Maybe instead of saying "they'd just be killed another way", maybe you should ask why there's so much damn violence in America.dsmccracken

The main reason there is so much violence in America is the extremely high poverty rate and the Government assistance programs that allow it to perpetuate. Oh yeah, and the drugs.

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]Never mind that the guns aren't the only problem. Maybe instead of saying "they'd just be killed another way", maybe you should ask why there's so much damn violence in America.luamhtrad

The main reason there is so much violence in America is the extremely high poverty rate and the Government assistance programs that allow it to perpetuate. Oh yeah, and the drugs.

And there you have it. Guns aren't the problem, but they exacerbate a situation that is already rife with problems.

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="mastershake575"]I really don't like obama's views on guns. He's voted for 11 anti-gun laws in his sort term in office, is endorsed by some of the biggest anti-gun/anti-hunting and if he can't ban guns he'll ban the next best thing.......... ammo that can go through a police vest. Sounds familiar doesn't it ? Loporadaso

You don't realise that almost all centerfire rifle rounds, many shotgun rounds and even many pistol rounds will penetrate the soft body armour that police wear. What they wear is designed to stop knives and small caliber pistol rounds, such as the .380, .25acp, 9mm, .22lr etc, which are the ones that officers most commonly encounter.

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]Never mind that the guns aren't the only problem. Maybe instead of saying "they'd just be killed another way", maybe you should ask why there's so much damn violence in America.luamhtrad

The main reason there is so much violence in America is the extremely high poverty rate and the Government assistance programs that allow it to perpetuate. Oh yeah, and the drugs.

No, you're over simplifying it. There are many other countries with much higher poverty rates that don't have as much violence. (even considering the number of people they have) They are also places with just as many drugs that don't have as much gun voilence.

[QUOTE="CleanPlayer"]I hate guns, nothing good comes out of it. -Austin-

And I don't have the right to protect my home and family?

In poland there is no problem to "protect" ur home (we have doors) and family... we are strong xD and have fists xD
Do it like a man! not like a Wheeenaaaa..... FIGHT dont shot..... if u need to ofcourse.

BTW. Guns!? what are u nuts ?;/

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]Never mind that the guns aren't the only problem. Maybe instead of saying "they'd just be killed another way", maybe you should ask why there's so much damn violence in America.munu9

The main reason there is so much violence in America is the extremely high poverty rate and the Government assistance programs that allow it to perpetuate. Oh yeah, and the drugs.

No, you're over simplifying it. There are many other countries with much higher poverty rates that don't have as much violence. (even considering the number of people they have) They are also places with just as many drugs that don't have as much gun voilence.

Care to back that claim up with some verifiable statistics?

[QUOTE="hoola"]

Gun violence has alot to do with the culture of people living in poorer places like Detroit and Flint, Michigan. They would be voilent whether they had guns or not.

munu9

That is totally wrong, you should watch "bowling for columbine"

I live in a middle class, mostly white, city. No more than 30 miles away is a place with a bunch of poor people and it is basically a ghetto, with couches on the front porch, people walking down the streets with pants falling off and cars driving by with bass that hurts your ears 30 feet away.

There has not been a single murder by gun in my city since i was born Yet gun victims in the other city are a common occurance. It has alot to do with culture and nobody should denie the truth.

[QUOTE="munu9"][QUOTE="hoola"]

Gun violence has alot to do with the culture of people living in poorer places like Detroit and Flint, Michigan. They would be voilent whether they had guns or not.

hoola

That is totally wrong, you should watch "bowling for columbine"

I live in a middle class, mostly white, city. No more than 30 miles away is a place with a bunch of poor people and it is basically a ghetto, with couches on the front porch, people walking down the streets with pants falling off and cars driving by with bass that hurts your ears 30 feet away.

There has not been a single murder by gun in my city since i was born Yet gun victims in the other city are a common occurance. It has alot to do with culture and nobody should denie the truth.

You could look at it like "why should I give up my guns just because they have a problem?" But you could also look at it like "why should I not want better things for my fellow human beings only 30 miles away, just because it doesn't affect me directly?"

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]Never mind that the guns aren't the only problem. Maybe instead of saying "they'd just be killed another way", maybe you should ask why there's so much damn violence in America.munu9

The main reason there is so much violence in America is the extremely high poverty rate and the Government assistance programs that allow it to perpetuate. Oh yeah, and the drugs.

No, you're over simplifying it. There are many other countries with much higher poverty rates that don't have as much violence. (even considering the number of people they have) They are also places with just as many drugs that don't have as much gun voilence.

But would they if they had the access to guns that the US has? And if so, are the guns the problem, or the poverty?

[QUOTE="johnnyv2003"][QUOTE="Rikusaki"]

I believe weapons should not exist at all. We should send out people to take and destroy all weapons in sight.

We should ban guns for all.

RadBooley

yes, and we can ban meat because it can cause high cholesterol. Then we can get rid of cigarettes because people aren't powerful enough to give them up on their own. Then I guess the next step is to outlaw cars because they cause death. Then after that we can get rid of alcohol because it makes people stupid, and stupid decisions follow. And then we should just ban going outside since the sun can cause skin cancer.

For all of those examples, sans alcohol and cars, the only person who is effected is the user. You can't really injure someone with meat. With a gun however... well...

Alcohol, I'd have to agree with.

Cars are vital to living in today's society. Guns are not.

I dont believe you understand his point,

CONTROL YOURSELF. COMMON SENSE.

Because the bad guys will always have guns, no matter what laws...

[QUOTE="hoola"][QUOTE="munu9"][QUOTE="hoola"]

Gun violence has alot to do with the culture of people living in poorer places like Detroit and Flint, Michigan. They would be voilent whether they had guns or not.

dsmccracken

That is totally wrong, you should watch "bowling for columbine"

I live in a middle class, mostly white, city. No more than 30 miles away is a place with a bunch of poor people and it is basically a ghetto, with couches on the front porch, people walking down the streets with pants falling off and cars driving by with bass that hurts your ears 30 feet away.

There has not been a single murder by gun in my city since i was born Yet gun victims in the other city are a common occurance. It has alot to do with culture and nobody should denie the truth.

You could look at it like "why should I give up my guns just because they have a problem?" But you could also look at it like "why should I not want better things for my fellow human beings only 30 miles away, just because it doesn't affect me directly?"

I do want better things for them..i want them to be able to make choices for themselves. You can't give them any more help than allowing them to decide for themselves.

[QUOTE="munu9"][QUOTE="luamhtrad"]The main reason there is so much violence in America is the extremely high poverty rate and the Government assistance programs that allow it to perpetuate. Oh yeah, and the drugs.dsmccracken

No, you're over simplifying it. There are many other countries with much higher poverty rates that don't have as much violence. (even considering the number of people they have) They are also places with just as many drugs that don't have as much gun voilence.

But would they if they had the access to guns that the US has? And if so, are the guns the problem, or the poverty?

Most gun crimes are committed with handguns. In the US, if you do not have the proper certifcation, you have to wait 3 days after purchasing a handgun (assuming your background check cleared) before you can take possession of said handgun. I don't really consider that to be easy "access". On another note, I have lived in several places around the US. While in college, I lived in an apartment complex that was Section 8 subsidized. This meant that there were income restrictions on receiving approval to rent there because the Government was paying a portion of that rent for you. This was good for me as a college student surviving on little money, but bad because of the environment that this poverty magnet created. The complex was nestled among high-end middleclass neighborhoods and nice restaurants because before the tax dollar sellout, it used to be a decently expensive all-college oriented setup. However, after Section 8 took over this single apartment complex accounted for over 75% of the entire law enforcement responses for the NW quadrant of a town of some 350,000 people. You're right it was only the guns. :roll:

[QUOTE="Loporadaso"]

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="mastershake575"]I really don't like obama's views on guns. He's voted for 11 anti-gun laws in his sort term in office, is endorsed by some of the biggest anti-gun/anti-hunting and if he can't ban guns he'll ban the next best thing.......... ammo that can go through a police vest. Sounds familiar doesn't it ? Mr_sprinkles

You don't realise that almost all centerfire rifle rounds, many shotgun rounds and even many pistol rounds will penetrate the soft body armour that police wear. What they wear is designed to stop knives and small caliber pistol rounds, such as the .380, .25acp, 9mm, .22lr etc, which are the ones that officers most commonly encounter.

First off, any gun that would be considered adequate for self defense is most likely capable of penetrating body armour. Even service caliber pistols, which are not designed to penetrate body armour can be made to do so if you reload your own ammunition and use hot enough loadings. Secondly, you may not realize it but its really not that difficult to build your own firearms, I have done it myself several times(legally of course). Also, not only police wear body armour, it can be owned by civilians too. In fact there have been many cases recently of home invaders wearing body armour when they break into peoples homes.

Your idea that some guns are too powerful to own is flawed. A criminal with any gun, even if its just a little .22 pistol, is a million times more dangerous than someone such as myself who just likes to collect a large number of guns but would never use any of them to commit a crime. It is far more effective to regulate what people can have guns rather than what guns people can have.

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="munu9"][QUOTE="luamhtrad"]The main reason there is so much violence in America is the extremely high poverty rate and the Government assistance programs that allow it to perpetuate. Oh yeah, and the drugs.luamhtrad

No, you're over simplifying it. There are many other countries with much higher poverty rates that don't have as much violence. (even considering the number of people they have) They are also places with just as many drugs that don't have as much gun voilence.

But would they if they had the access to guns that the US has? And if so, are the guns the problem, or the poverty?

You're right it was only the guns. :roll:

Isn't that the OPPOSITE of what I've been saying? :roll:

Multiple Gun owner here - Proudly voted for Obama :)LosDaddie

Let me know how it feels after your gun freedoms are reduced. It WILL happen under Obama.

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]Multiple Gun owner here - Proudly voted for Obama :)luamhtrad

Let me know how it feels after your gun freedoms are reduced. It WILL happen under Obama.

Should the Obama National Civilian Force come for my guns they're welcome to them, but I'll be giving them the bullets first :twisted:

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]Multiple Gun owner here - Proudly voted for Obama :)luamhtrad

Let me know how it feels after your gun freedoms are reduced. It WILL happen under Obama.

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]Multiple Gun owner here - Proudly voted for Obama :)chester706

Let me know how it feels after your gun freedoms are reduced. It WILL happen under Obama.

The government already restrains usage. How is more impact to freedom something that makes sense?

Guns should be banned.Toro_Nev

[QUOTE="munu9"][QUOTE="hoola"]

Gun violence has alot to do with the culture of people living in poorer places like Detroit and Flint, Michigan. They would be voilent whether they had guns or not.

jmsbond35

That is totally wrong, you should watch "bowling for columbine"

Bowling For Columbine?!?! That POS From that fat@ss Michael Moore??? yea right, liberal pussssy.

It is a bad movie....

Why should gun haters get to choose whats right for us. Same with Prop 8. Why should some people not be able to get married? Gun control in California is archaic.stupiddk

[QUOTE="chester706"][QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]Multiple Gun owner here - Proudly voted for Obama :)luamhtrad

Let me know how it feels after your gun freedoms are reduced. It WILL happen under Obama.

The government already restrains usage. How is more impact to freedom something that makes sense?

[QUOTE="luamhtrad"][QUOTE="chester706"][QUOTE="luamhtrad"]

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]Multiple Gun owner here - Proudly voted for Obama :)chester706

Let me know how it feels after your gun freedoms are reduced. It WILL happen under Obama.

The government already restrains usage. How is more impact to freedom something that makes sense?

Because I shouldn't be punished for someone else's mistakes. Same goes for welfare.