Obama lowered the Deficit by $361 Billion.

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Abbeten

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#51 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]

Interest rates on government debt continue on in the negatives.Nibroc420

Uhh what?

"Borrow money, dont pay interest, get paid interest!"

What sort of BS troll logic are you going on about?
Negative interest on debt?

Uhhhh real interest rates can be (and in this case are) negative.
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Nibroc420

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#52 Nibroc420
Member since 2007 • 13571 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Which says something about the state of the global economy and how safe it is to invest money in US treasury bonds.

Safe to invest in a country that's in debt, going further into debt, and has had it's credit rating dropping substantially for the past few years?

It's safe to lend to a country that is the sole creator of the currency that is being lent.

Yet the USA's credit is practically free-falling, and debt is skyrocketing. Reminds me of those people who dont live within their means, doesn't work so well, and i dont think I'd lend those people money.
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Abbeten

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#53 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Safe to invest in a country that's in debt, going further into debt, and has had it's credit rating dropping substantially for the past few years?

It's safe to lend to a country that is the sole creator of the currency that is being lent.

Yet the USA's credit is practically free-falling, and debt is skyrocketing. Reminds me of those people who dont live within their means, doesn't work so well, and i dont think I'd lend those people money.

Couple things here. 1) The US's credit rating was originally downgraded because of congressional unwillingness to raise the debt ceiling. This was clearly stated in Moody's accompanying memo. 2) Credit ratings don't actually mean anything in and of themselves. They're meant to be guidelines for investors, and if investors decisively disagree with the credit rating downgrade, then nothing substantial changes.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#54 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Nibroc420"] Safe to invest in a country that's in debt, going further into debt, and has had it's credit rating dropping substantially for the past few years?

It's safe to lend to a country that is the sole creator of the currency that is being lent.

Yet the USA's credit is practically free-falling, and debt is skyrocketing. Reminds me of those people who dont live within their means, doesn't work so well, and i dont think I'd lend those people money.

What credit rating agencies say about the federal debt is not very authoritative - the financial situation of the US is well known by everyone - and quite honestly I couldn't care less about what CRA's have to say about the credit worthiness of anything after the role they played in the recent financial crisis. The next day the market opened after the S&P downgrade, investors rushed to put more money in the very same securities that were just downgraded. That tells you what the market thought about the downgrade.
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Jebus213

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#55 Jebus213
Member since 2010 • 10056 Posts
 .mingmao3046
Looking at how Bush handled the war it looks like he dragged it on for too long. What we had 20,000 troops in Afghanistan in 2005 or 6?
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scoots9

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#56 scoots9
Member since 2006 • 3505 Posts

Yeah nobody claimed Bush was better. This is still unacceptable.DaBrainz

This.

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ristactionjakso

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#57 ristactionjakso
Member since 2011 • 6118 Posts

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

Hmmm, but how has he handled the overall debt? He added to that by a considerable amount.

Blue-Sky

If there's a deficit, of course the debt will increase.

Regardless of who is in the white house, the debt would have increased by 1 trillion every year.

The national debt will increase by another 3 trillion by 2016 whether Romney or Obama is in the white house. There is nothing anyone can do about the national debt right now other than try to balance the annual budget.

Uhhh, what about his very expensive stimulus and Obamacare bills? Added a lot to that debt, plus he is wanting another stimulus? Absurd.

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coolbeans90

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#58 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

Good.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#59 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

Hmmm, but how has he handled the overall debt? He added to that by a considerable amount.

ristactionjakso

If there's a deficit, of course the debt will increase.

Regardless of who is in the white house, the debt would have increased by 1 trillion every year.

The national debt will increase by another 3 trillion by 2016 whether Romney or Obama is in the white house. There is nothing anyone can do about the national debt right now other than try to balance the annual budget.

Uhhh, what about his very expensive stimulus and Obamacare bills? Added a lot to that debt, plus he is wanting another stimulus? Absurd.

Obamacare reduces the deficit, because of the radical idea of offsetting new spending with new revenue.
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Blue-Sky

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#60 Blue-Sky
Member since 2005 • 10381 Posts

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

Hmmm, but how has he handled the overall debt? He added to that by a considerable amount.

ristactionjakso

If there's a deficit, of course the debt will increase.

Regardless of who is in the white house, the debt would have increased by 1 trillion every year.

The national debt will increase by another 3 trillion by 2016 whether Romney or Obama is in the white house. There is nothing anyone can do about the national debt right now other than try to balance the annual budget.

Uhhh, what about his very expensive stimulus and Obamacare bills? Added a lot to that debt, plus he is wanting another stimulus? Absurd.

Wow you really are out of touch.

Both TARP and ACA contributed to the reduction in spending. That's why repealing Obamacare "adds" to the debt.

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lloveLamp

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#61 lloveLamp
Member since 2009 • 2891 Posts
just because obama has been a terrible president doesn't mean I think Mitt Romnitron would be any better
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Barbariser

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#62 Barbariser
Member since 2009 • 6785 Posts

This is a very interesting report considering I was just reading thiswhich says the deficit has increased by 5.5 trillion since 2009. Wasdie

Debt, not deficit. Debt always increases as long as a deficit exists, and counting from the start of 2009, there have been effectively four years of deficits leading to an average deficit of 1.375 trillion USD, which is consistent with the information in the OP.

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champion837

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#63 champion837
Member since 2012 • 1423 Posts

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

This is a very interesting report considering I was just reading thiswhich says the deficit has increased by 5.5 trillion since 2009. Barbariser

Debt, not deficit. Debt always increases as long as a deficit exists, and counting from the start of 2009, there have been effectively four years of deficits leading to an average deficit of 1.375 trillion USD, which is consistent with the information in the OP.

Stop that, only Mitt Romney talking points matter:P

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JoGoSo

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#64 JoGoSo
Member since 2012 • 441 Posts

-Obama has lowered the deficit to $1.1 Trillion

-he did a pretty damn good job handling the deficit

:lol:

Yes, thank you Obama for only running a $1.1 trillion deficit. Lets reelect you.

limpbizkit818
I would think the point is whether it's wiser to elect people who say their concerned about the deficit but fail to balance it based on their ideas instead of people who don't focus on it but it magically goes down anyway based on those policies.
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whipassmt

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#65 whipassmt
Member since 2007 • 15375 Posts

[QUOTE="ristactionjakso"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]

If there's a deficit, of course the debt will increase.

Regardless of who is in the white house, the debt would have increased by 1 trillion every year.

The national debt will increase by another 3 trillion by 2016 whether Romney or Obama is in the white house. There is nothing anyone can do about the national debt right now other than try to balance the annual budget.

-Sun_Tzu-

Uhhh, what about his very expensive stimulus and Obamacare bills? Added a lot to that debt, plus he is wanting another stimulus? Absurd.

Obamacare reduces the deficit, because of the radical idea of offsetting new spending with new revenue.

well actually we don't know if Obamcare reduces the deficit for sure, that's just an estimation. It's possible that many of the revenue sources/taxes in Obamacare may not generate as much revenue as predicted (for instance I heard the tanning bed tax didn't bring in as much money as it was estimated to).

Also it's possible that some of the taxes in Obamacare may be repealed (for instance, Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren wants to repeal a tax on medical devices), which would lower Obamacare's revenues.

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whipassmt

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#66 whipassmt
Member since 2007 • 15375 Posts

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"] .Jebus213
Looking at how Bush handled the war it looks like he dragged it on for too long. What we had 20,000 troops in Afghanistan in 2005 or 6?

There were about 23,000 troops in Afghanistan in April 2005 and 26,000 in May 2006.


image5855123.gif

Part of the reason for the the low levels was that the U.S. strategy relied on using Afghan allies (first the Northern Alliance, and then the Afghan army) to do much of the ground fighting (with U.S. special forces and air support to back them up) in order to keep U.S. casualties low. Also I think violence/fighting in Afghanistan after the initial invasion was pretty low and didn't start to pick up until about 2007 or 2008 (I think at this time the Taliban was hunkering down in Pakistan and regrouping, and then around 2007 or so they began to try to make a come-back).

Part of the reason for the increase in casualties (and probably most of the reason for the increase in cost) under Obama is that Obama sent more troops to Afghanistan, though some of the casualties may be due to a change in the Rules of Engagement designed to reduce civilian casualties that make it harder for troops to get artillery and air support. Also in the last few years there has been a big increase in incidents where Afghan troops and police (the guys the U.S. is training to be our allies) fire on U.S. and NATO troops (this is thought to be due to an increase in members of the Taliban, particularly the Haqqani network, infiltrating the Afghan police and military).

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SpartanMSU

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#67 SpartanMSU
Member since 2009 • 3440 Posts

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"] Exactly, which is why focusing on jobs just makes more sense. But for some reason, people think that we'll turn into Greece if we don't immediately implement drastic austerity measures.Abbeten

I think we can focus on jobs and deficit reduction at the same time. It's possible that a high national debt may be bad for employment, though i'm not sure the details of how that argument works.

That argument basically says that businesses will abstain from investing if they feel the government's finances are unsustainable and will inevitably result in a financial collapse. It doesn't really hold because businesses cite lack of demand for their products or services as the main reason for pulling back on investment, and interest rates on government debt are negative, which show supreme investor confidence in the government's stability. I agree we need to focus on deficit reduction, I just think that trying for that while simultaneously boosting job growth is going to result in a mediocre showing for both efforts.

You're kidding me right? People turning to bonds means they're much more risk averse.