Obama on Syria: 'I have not made a decision'

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xmanfan91

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#1 xmanfan91
Member since 2012 • 481 Posts

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/28/20227083-obama-on-syria-i-have-not-made-a-decision?lite

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57600534/obama-i-have-not-made-a-decision-on-syria-military-strike/

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Cyberdot

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#2 Cyberdot
Member since 2013 • 3928 Posts

We all should just leave them alone. Why use our hard-earned resources to deal with another country? We are not the world's policeman. We have problems of our own.

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hartsickdiscipl

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#3 hartsickdiscipl
Member since 2003 • 14787 Posts

We all should just leave them alone. Why use our hard-earned resources to deal with another country? We are not the world's policeman. We have problems of our own.

Cyberdot

 

Precisely.  I don't remember the part of the Constitution that says "try to make all other countries behave just like our own."  

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Jimn_tonic

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#4 Jimn_tonic
Member since 2013 • 913 Posts

 'I have not made a decision'

should've been his campaign slogan.

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JML897

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#5 JML897
Member since 2004 • 33134 Posts
Aaaahhh shit I agree with hartsick on something political Gonna have to re-evaluate my position now
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deeliman

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#6 deeliman
Member since 2013 • 4027 Posts

I hope they stay out of it, before it gets turned into a proxy war.

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xmanfan91

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#7 xmanfan91
Member since 2012 • 481 Posts

I hope they stay out of it, before it gets turned into a proxy war.

deeliman

 

Isn't this already a proxy war?

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BossPerson

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#8 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

I hope they stay out of it, before it gets turned into a proxy war.

deeliman
too late
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#9 BossPerson
Member since 2011 • 9177 Posts

I hope they stay out of it, before it gets turned into a proxy war.

deeliman
btw, holy fvck, amazing pc
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Saturos3091

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#10 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

welfare and warfare 4eva

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deeliman

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#11 deeliman
Member since 2013 • 4027 Posts
[QUOTE="deeliman"]

I hope they stay out of it, before it gets turned into a proxy war.

BossPerson
btw, holy fvck, amazing pc

Thanks, it cost me quite a bit of dough though :P
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deeliman

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#12 deeliman
Member since 2013 • 4027 Posts

[QUOTE="deeliman"]

I hope they stay out of it, before it gets turned into a proxy war.

EYE-OF-HORUS999

 

Isn't this already a proxy war?

Is it already confirmed that NATO is supplying the rebels? If not, then it's not really a proxy war yet.
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deactivated-59f03d6ce656b

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#13 deactivated-59f03d6ce656b
Member since 2009 • 2944 Posts
[QUOTE="EYE-OF-HORUS999"]

[QUOTE="deeliman"]

I hope they stay out of it, before it gets turned into a proxy war.

deeliman

 

Isn't this already a proxy war?

Is it already confirmed that NATO is supplying the rebels? If not, then it's not really a proxy war yet.

Several U.S allies are supplying the rebels. NATO -FSA Qatar/ Saudi Arabia - more extremist rebels vs Russia - Syrian govt Iran- Syrian govt, Hezbollah
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Saturos3091

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#14 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

Is it already confirmed that NATO is supplying the rebels? If not, then it's not really a proxy war yet.deeliman
It's pretty much confirmed.

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deeliman

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#15 deeliman
Member since 2013 • 4027 Posts

[QUOTE="deeliman"]Is it already confirmed that NATO is supplying the rebels? If not, then it's not really a proxy war yet.Saturos3091

It's pretty much confirmed.

Ok, then is has already turned into a full on proxy war. So, will this be the beginning of the second Cold War?
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KungfuKitten

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#16 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts
[QUOTE="Saturos3091"]

[QUOTE="deeliman"]Is it already confirmed that NATO is supplying the rebels? If not, then it's not really a proxy war yet.deeliman

It's pretty much confirmed.

Ok, then is has already turned into a full on proxy war. So, will this be the beginning of the second Cold War?

I don't think that enough people want there to be a second Cold War for there to be one.
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Saturos3091

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#17 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

If we can have the cool parts of the Cold War (lite pun intended) then I'm all for it. 

-Technological advances
-Space Exploration
-Society feeling passively unified against a common "enemy" yet not going to war over it.
-Economic dick-wagging (but this time without exploding the national debt)

All the other stuff I think I could live without.

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deeliman

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#18 deeliman
Member since 2013 • 4027 Posts

If we can have the cool parts of the Cold War (lite pun intended) then I'm all for it. 

-Technological advances
-Space Exploration
-Society feeling passively unified against a common "enemy" yet not going to war over it.
-Economic dick-wagging (but this time without exploding the national debt)

All the other stuff I think I could live without.

Saturos3091
Unfortunately we can't cherry pick the aspects of war.
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KungfuKitten

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#19 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

If we can have the cool parts of the Cold War (lite pun intended) then I'm all for it. 

-Technological advances
-Space Exploration
-Society feeling passively unified against a common "enemy" yet not going to war over it.
-Economic dick-wagging (but this time without exploding the national debt)

All the other stuff I think I could live without.

Saturos3091

We could pick something like disease as a common enemy. Or maybe aging.

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Saturos3091

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#20 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

We could pick something like disease as a common enemy. Or maybe aging.

KungfuKitten
Yeah that'd be preferable but you know big pharma will just make medication to cure the symptoms but not the cause. Still beats actually starting a military conflict over it. [QUOTE="deeliman"] Unfortunately we can't cherry pick the aspects of war.

Unfortunate indeed.
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deactivated-5b78379493e12

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#21 deactivated-5b78379493e12
Member since 2005 • 15625 Posts

Does he ever decide on anything?

I think Congress should make the ultimate decision on whether or not we do anything in Syria. That way the blame can be placed on the House and Senate leadership, and we can get them the hell out of their offices.

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Master_Live

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#22 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts

Obama might be stuck in a bind. If he attack without Congress authorization it will be out in the open how big of a hypocrite he is. If he doesn't attack then the world will know his word means nothing. And right now I think the Obama Administration is worried of a rejection of authorization by Congress just like Cameron suffered today and be politically cripple for the rest of his 2nd term.

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deactivated-5fc147aeeb0aa

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#23 deactivated-5fc147aeeb0aa
Member since 2009 • 8315 Posts

Obama loses either way. If he doesn't intervene now he will lose the respect of the international community and Assad knows he can get away with anything he wants. If he does strike Syria he loses support in his own country.

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Mickeyminime

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#24 Mickeyminime
Member since 2008 • 1595 Posts
I hear the UK might not be helping out at all now, which for me, is a good thing. After all, it's not our duty. The middle east is pure death, nothing we do will improve it, we didn't really improve Iraq, we certainly wont improve Afghanistan and Pakistan once we all leave (assuming the UK will leave since i've heard we will be there long after the US are out thanks to Cameron). The Middle East is not our duty at all. it's a waste of money and a waste of time. Nothing we do will improve those countries, nothing at all. When you kill this guy, another guy will take over and even if no one else takes over, you will still get people killing one another. Look at Egypt, Mohammed got kicked out, yet there is still death going on over there, same with Iraq and Libya. It's the British people, the American people and the people from other countries who have the right to say if we should help, not the government, it's our money, it's our relatives that will be sent over there, not the government. The US is struggling as it is with huge debt, Obama is cutting back on the military just like Cameron is doing in the UK. We cut back to repay our debts but make debts bigger by sending more money abroad and spending more money attacking or invading other countries.
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#25 AllanLane
Member since 2013 • 26 Posts

Look at Egypt, Mohammed got kicked out, yet there is still death going on over there, same with Iraq and Libya. Mickeyminime

Yeah if a full invasion of Iraq and billions spent on nation building can't produce good results after all these years I doubt firing some cruise missiles into Syria can do much. It might even prompt Assad to use more chemical weapons out of desperation (if he did indeed use them) and if that happened what then? Put boots on the ground? The public wouldn't go for that and I don't think any western nation is in the position to afford it. The Iraq war destroyed the will to engage in intervention and nation building and after the 2008 economic crisis there is less money available for such endeavours. Just today in Iraq 23 died in attacks and 56 yesterday, this is after a decade in that nation trying to stabilise the situation.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/29/world/meast/iraq-violence/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

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#26 The_Power_of_X
Member since 2013 • 563 Posts

[QUOTE="Cyberdot"]

We all should just leave them alone. Why use our hard-earned resources to deal with another country? We are not the world's policeman. We have problems of our own.

hartsickdiscipl

 

Precisely.  I don't remember the part of the Constitution that says "try to make all other countries behave just like our own."  

I feel with all the help and aid we give to a lot of countries then we might as well own the actual territory we fight for.

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ferrari2001

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#27 ferrari2001
Member since 2008 • 17772 Posts

 'I have not made a decision'

should've been his campaign slogan.

Jimn_tonic
HAHA! Gotta admit I laughed at that. Nice one.
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Master_Live

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#28 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Cyberdot"]

We all should just leave them alone. Why use our hard-earned resources to deal with another country? We are not the world's policeman. We have problems of our own.

The_Power_of_X

 

Precisely.  I don't remember the part of the Constitution that says "try to make all other countries behave just like our own."  

I feel with all the help and aid we give to a lot of countries then we might as well own the actual territory we fight for.

 

Nothing is for free, when providing that help and aid it is being done in the best interest of the US.

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#29 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
I don't really think we should. With the Middle East it is pretty much usually the case that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, and this is no exception. While what Assad is doing is atrocious, I don't think the opposition are very favorable either and I don't see why we should intervene, especially without a coalition with European countries.
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Makhaidos

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#30 Makhaidos
Member since 2013 • 2162 Posts
Clearly Syria has WMDs. We should invade.
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Ugalde-

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#31 Ugalde-
Member since 2009 • 3732 Posts
Could the US really get nuked or do we have ways of preventing that?
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#32 Big_Pecks
Member since 2010 • 5973 Posts

There's going to be another war.

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#33 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
Could the US really get nuked or do we have ways of preventing that?Ugalde-
By who?
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Ugalde-

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#34 Ugalde-
Member since 2009 • 3732 Posts
[QUOTE="Ugalde-"]Could the US really get nuked or do we have ways of preventing that?Commander-Gree
By who?

Russia, Korea, China, etc. Basically anyone who would be in this war.
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#35 Makhaidos
Member since 2013 • 2162 Posts
Could the US really get nuked or do we have ways of preventing that?Ugalde-
Yeah. Our way of preventing it is our own nukes. If a country nukes us, we'll nuke them back--and vice versa. America alone has enough nuclear warheads to literally destroy the world several times over. This very thing was what made the Cold War so freaking tense--everyone was terrified that either Russia or the U.S. would drop the nuke first.
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Ugalde-

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#36 Ugalde-
Member since 2009 • 3732 Posts
[QUOTE="Ugalde-"]Could the US really get nuked or do we have ways of preventing that?Makhaidos
Yeah. Our way of preventing it is our own nukes. If a country nukes us, we'll nuke them back--and vice versa. America alone has enough nuclear warheads to literally destroy the world several times over. This very thing was what made the Cold War so freaking tense--everyone was terrified that either Russia or the U.S. would drop the nuke first.

So technically if Russia decides to nuke us, we have to get hit pretty hard before we do anything back?
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Makhaidos

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#37 Makhaidos
Member since 2013 • 2162 Posts

[QUOTE="Makhaidos"][QUOTE="Ugalde-"]Could the US really get nuked or do we have ways of preventing that?Ugalde-
Yeah. Our way of preventing it is our own nukes. If a country nukes us, we'll nuke them back--and vice versa. America alone has enough nuclear warheads to literally destroy the world several times over. This very thing was what made the Cold War so freaking tense--everyone was terrified that either Russia or the U.S. would drop the nuke first.

So technically if Russia decides to nuke us, we have to get hit pretty hard before we do anything back?

No; if Russia drops a single nuke on us, we respond with everything we've got. And again, vice-versa; if Russia sees any of our nukes in the sky aiming toward them, they will wipe us off the planet as a last FU. Not to mention the resulting world war between our allies. The concept is called mutally assured destruction.

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Commander-Gree

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#38 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
[QUOTE="Makhaidos"][QUOTE="Ugalde-"]Could the US really get nuked or do we have ways of preventing that?Ugalde-
Yeah. Our way of preventing it is our own nukes. If a country nukes us, we'll nuke them back--and vice versa. America alone has enough nuclear warheads to literally destroy the world several times over. This very thing was what made the Cold War so freaking tense--everyone was terrified that either Russia or the U.S. would drop the nuke first.

So technically if Russia decides to nuke us, we have to get hit pretty hard before we do anything back?

No, I think if Russia, or any country for that matter, were to nuke us, we'd light them up like a Christmas tree within hours. It's that threat of mutually assured destruction that keeps most sane countries in check. It's countries like North Korea and Iran that you have to worry about. And I highly, highly doubt that the conflict in Syria, even if it is used as a proxy war, would lead to nukes being used. And even if they were, I'd like to think that our missile defense systems are pretty good.
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Master_Live

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#39 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts

[QUOTE="Makhaidos"][QUOTE="Ugalde-"]Could the US really get nuked or do we have ways of preventing that?Ugalde-
Yeah. Our way of preventing it is our own nukes. If a country nukes us, we'll nuke them back--and vice versa. America alone has enough nuclear warheads to literally destroy the world several times over. This very thing was what made the Cold War so freaking tense--everyone was terrified that either Russia or the U.S. would drop the nuke first.

So technically if Russia decides to nuke us, we have to get hit pretty hard before we do anything back?

 

No, the point is that nuclear war is so catastrophic that no rational country would risk one. This is what the whole Cold War was about. Russia and China are rational players.

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THE_DRUGGIE

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#40 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

...I think it's safe to say that the Middle East is just going to be an eternal warzone.

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JangoWuzHere

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#41 JangoWuzHere
Member since 2007 • 19032 Posts

Attacking Syria will only lead to bad relations with Russia and possibly China. 

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curono

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#42 curono
Member since 2005 • 7722 Posts
The answer is simple. Do NOT intervene.I can't think of any AMERICAN military intervention from the last 30 years that went right or started from the correct intel. Really. Just no.
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Master_Live

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#43 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts

I can't think of any AMERICAN military intervention from the last 30 years that went right or started from the correct intel. curono

 

The 1st Gulf War, the Libya Intervention.

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THE_DRUGGIE

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#44 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

[QUOTE="curono"]I can't think of any AMERICAN military intervention from the last 30 years that went right or started from the correct intel. Master_Live

 

The 1st Gulf War, the Libya Intervention.

Totally worth all the nerve gas inhalation.

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#45 curono
Member since 2005 • 7722 Posts
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/08/23/our-disturbing-relationship-with-gaddafi/ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/gaddafi-britain-and-us-a-secret-special-and-very-cosy-relationship-2349039.html http://links.org.au/node/2179 Considering that Libya was supported by the very same guys that bombed... well. I hardly call that started or went right. This is a matter of opinion. You help a dictator get hold of his power THEN you bomb him when he crosses your ideals. That is questionable http://www.globalpolicy.org/iraq-conflict-the-historical-background-/us-and-british-support-for-huss-regime.html http://usiraq.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000887 Again. I wouldn't consider the gulf war a success, since it is pretty much admitted that US "helped/made possible" Saddam becoming the tyrannical leader. Again... do not intervene.
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JDWolfie

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#46 JDWolfie
Member since 2007 • 1952 Posts

No. If we declare war on Syria, essentially we will be declaring war on Iran. They aren't a direct threat to the United States and the rebels themselves are terrorists. We having nothing to gain from this.