Obama says school year should be longer - States disagree

He doesn't really explain why he thinks it should be longer...

I don't think it will help...also, whoever said it was "almost a month"..way to exaggerate...i don't know any months that are ALMOST 17 days long...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

The system needs a major overhaul. This has to be the third time I am clarifying this in this thread. Increasing the duration of school after that overhaul will only serve to benefit students.

Dark_Knight6

And? You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again, ignoring fundamental parts of my point.

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

I recall a lot of time being wasted while sitting in class in High School. I don't really think making school years longer would do anything.

LJS9502_basic

Well, positivie, at least.

Yeah...but I still don't see the need for more days. The system would be better spent with tax deductions for private education. When you have government involved...it's always substandard.LJS9502_basic

Yeah, suppose that's why the military, police, highway system, etc are all substandard. By that way of thinking ANY incorporated entity is substandard. Assumptions FTL. Tax deductions for private education just makes it CHEAPER for those who can ALREADY afford to send their kids to any school they want is just as dumb an idea as tax cuts geared toward the rich to create jobs, you'll end up with a defunded public system and an overly funded private system with additional bonanza of taxpayer money.

If you already have the money there is no reason that you need help accomplishing things like paying tuition or opening an ACTUAL small business. Tax cuts are suppose to help those who are ambitious but could use the extra funds to help their business. If you are already rich there is no purpose in helping you.

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And? I'm clarifying that I don't agree with your opinion to cut defense....which was the point of your last post was it not?LJS9502_basic

And? You keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again, ignoring fundamental parts of my point.

While you continually repost your "QUALITY>QUANTITY" rhetoric, which was already dealt with.

A longer school year is definitely not something that should be focused on. Whether or not it should be done, I have nothing to say. The whole system needs help first. Adding a longer school year now, I feel might increase the dropout rate.

No, we don't need more edumacation.

No, we don't need more edumacation.

racer8dan

I think presidents should get less vacation days....

only if that extra time is spent on things like math and science. Wasted way too much time on worthless BS back in highschool.

I used to be really into computer programming and 3d modeling back then... but had little spare time due to all the worthless busy work they gave me. I cant help but feel if i had less school work i probably would have been much more successful in life.

I don't think that the problem is how many school days we have. We could have school 365 days a year for 10 hours a day and everything would be the same. We need better teachers and overall better schooling with a set requirement for passing and teachers should be held accountable for their students. If a teacher is a good teacher from my experience most people do very well in their class including the class clown. He may get in trouble more than the rest, but in some classes that I've had in HS even the class idiot engaged in intelligent discussions because of the amazing teacher. This problem also exist in college, but to a much elsser degree.

He doesn't really explain why he thinks it should be longer...

I don't think it will help...also, whoever said it was "almost a month"..way to exaggerate...i don't know any months that are ALMOST 17 days long...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

You know part of me says yes. It would help to have a few more days so that students have a bit more time to understand what they are learning. The other part of me says we should stop and think of the children. Whats worse is that this would also add additional time to the parents who need to help their kids with homework.

You know part of me says yes. It would help to have a few more days so that students have a bit more time to understand what they are learning. The other part of me says we should stop and think of the children. Whats worse is that this would also add additional time to the parents who need to help their kids with homework.

Serraph105

It's not the amount of schooling that needs to be changed. It's that the time already spent could be used for much better purposes. Teachers spend time getting their students prepared for moronic standardized testing (PSSA, "No Child Left Behind" due to the rewards it gives the school if the students do well) rather than teaching the material that'll actually be useful for higher education.

my 3 kids spend less time in school than public school kids and their education is much better.

i would say the main problem isn't the length of the school year,or money or teachers.the problem is the students and parents.i will lose pretty much everything i own before sending my kids to public school.

You know part of me says yes. It would help to have a few more days so that students have a bit more time to understand what they are learning. The other part of me says we should stop and think of the children. Whats worse is that this would also add additional time to the parents who need to help their kids with homework.

Serraph105

Honestly if a kid doesn't want to learn then they are not going to learn extra day or not. We need better teachers that can engage with these students. From personal experience i know that it CAN be done with the right teachers. I also know that some teachers are terrible and hateful people and shouldn't be teachers because they get off on failing kids or pushing them in a negative way. Better teachers is the answer. Not more school days.

my 3 kids spend less time in school than public school kids and their education is much better.

i would say the main problem isn't the length of the school year,or money or teachers.the problem is the students and parents.i will lose pretty much everything i own before sending my kids to public school.

xromad01

Agree with the first part, but is it really the public schools fault or is it the teachers fault? For example my cousin went to public school in the "hood" and although he's a bit ghetto he's one of the smartest people that I know. He's a friggen human calculator. With the right teachers only good can happen.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

You know part of me says yes. It would help to have a few more days so that students have a bit more time to understand what they are learning. The other part of me says we should stop and think of the children. Whats worse is that this would also add additional time to the parents who need to help their kids with homework.

bigblunt537

Honestly if a kid doesn't want to learn then they are not going to learn extra day or not. We need better teachers that can engage with these students. From personal experience i know that it CAN be done with the right teachers. I also know that some teachers are terrible and hateful people and shouldn't be teachers because they get off on failing kids or pushing them in a negative way. Better teachers is the answer. Not more school days.

Not a bad idea,but I question the overall effect it will have. When I was in Highschool we spent most of the last month preparing for our finals. An extra 17 days wouldn't exactly fix every school that is falling behind the rest of the country.

No, we don't need more edumacation.

racer8dan

We don't need no thought control...Pink Floyd.:P

[QUOTE="bigblunt537"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

You know part of me says yes. It would help to have a few more days so that students have a bit more time to understand what they are learning. The other part of me says we should stop and think of the children. Whats worse is that this would also add additional time to the parents who need to help their kids with homework.

Serraph105

Honestly if a kid doesn't want to learn then they are not going to learn extra day or not. We need better teachers that can engage with these students. From personal experience i know that it CAN be done with the right teachers. I also know that some teachers are terrible and hateful people and shouldn't be teachers because they get off on failing kids or pushing them in a negative way. Better teachers is the answer. Not more school days.

You are correct about that, but do you think this will magically help anyone whose having education difficulties? Kids that want to learn and enjoy learning or are pressed to do well in school because of their parents will do well and pick up whatever they're learning regardless of how long the school year is. Yes, coming back after the summer can be intimidating as many of the things you've learned may be forgotten, but you will eventually catch up since you actually did learn these things in the first place. Kids that have trouble with schooling whether it's their own fault or the teachers fault aren't going to do better because of a longer school year. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="bigblunt537"]

Honestly if a kid doesn't want to learn then they are not going to learn extra day or not. We need better teachers that can engage with these students. From personal experience i know that it CAN be done with the right teachers. I also know that some teachers are terrible and hateful people and shouldn't be teachers because they get off on failing kids or pushing them in a negative way. Better teachers is the answer. Not more school days.

bigblunt537

You are correct about that, but do you think this will magically help anyone whose having education difficulties? Kids that want to learn and enjoy learning or are pressed to do well in school because of their parents will do well and pick up whatever they're learning regardless of how long the school year is. Yes, coming back after the summer can be intimidating as many of the things you've learned may be forgotten, but you will eventually catch up since you actually did learn these things in the first place. Kids that have trouble with schooling whether it's their own fault or the teachers fault aren't going to do better because of a longer school year. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

No, we don't need more edumacation.

topsemag55

We don't need no thought control...Pink Floyd.:P

It does need to be longer. Students, especially in the inner-cities, regress a horrible amount over the summer. Our long summer vacation is a relic of our once mostly agrarian society, but we aren't living in that society anymore. The majority of people in the U.S. now live in an urban environment. There is no justification whatsoever for keeping the U.S. school year as short as it currently is.-Sun_Tzu-

You make a good point; however, states are strapped for the cash to pay for fuel for school buses, teachers' salaries, etc. for even a week's extension of schooling.

Plus property taxes are already at prohibitive levels in a lot of states.

this is incredibly rediculous, this belief that quantity=quality.

We do not need longer school years; what we need are tougher standards for teachers; better incentives for teachers to not only do their jobs properly, but go beyond the call of the bare minimum on occassion.

We also need incentives for students; in the real world, you get paid for your work, and I see no reason why the government can't do the same (if you get an A, the government puts x amount of money into a scholorship fund for you for example).

We also need better funding, and in many cases, better methods of funding (the parcel tax method in California is simply rediculous).

I am sick and tired of the government getting too involved; if you think a child believing France is a continent could be remedied by keeping him in school a few extra weeks, youre a complete fool.

Screw that noise: it is time for the 4 10-hour day work week, the 4 9-hour school week (with a fifth day of special activities for gifted students, sports, etc).

I disagree with the idea, the problem is emphasis on standardized testing and teaching based on the tests. My country has a shorter school year than most yet when we go abroad to study in the US most say it's pretty much a cake walk. Quality over quantity Obama, more school would just make children hate it more.

what are the hours per day in the states? in ireland its 9am-5pm mon-thur and 9-4 on friday as i remember it (secondary school) and then theres homework after that (some teachers wouldnt give homework on friday but most would).osan0

it depends.

in my high school, its generally 8am to 3pm. However, you could opt for A-period PE or band, so it could be 7AM to 2PM. As a senior (fourth year) in high school, you only need to take like 5 classes, so coupled with my A-period class I was in school from 7am-1pm. Sports practice was generally another 2-4 hours on top of that each day except days of games (Friday)

In elementary and middle school it was 8am to 3pm

My state can't afford the schools at it is, there is no way they could afford more. And I seriously doubt it is going to help kids learn more.

While I do agree that school years should be longer, many states, like California are in debt (like a lot of it) and can't afford to extend the school years... and with school districts like LAUSD (which is a complete joke btw) can't even pay teachers on time, or at all for months.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]It does need to be longer. Students, especially in the inner-cities, regress a horrible amount over the summer. Our long summer vacation is a relic of our once mostly agrarian society, but we aren't living in that society anymore. The majority of people in the U.S. now live in an urban environment. There is no justification whatsoever for keeping the U.S. school year as short as it currently is.topsemag55

You make a good point; however, states are strapped for the cash to pay for fuel for school buses, teachers' salaries, etc. for even a week's extension of schooling.

Plus property taxes are already at prohibitive levels in a lot of states.

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]It does need to be longer. Students, especially in the inner-cities, regress a horrible amount over the summer. Our long summer vacation is a relic of our once mostly agrarian society, but we aren't living in that society anymore. The majority of people in the U.S. now live in an urban environment. There is no justification whatsoever for keeping the U.S. school year as short as it currently is.-Sun_Tzu-

You make a good point; however, states are strapped for the cash to pay for fuel for school buses, teachers' salaries, etc. for even a week's extension of schooling.

Plus property taxes are already at prohibitive levels in a lot of states.

Thus my contention that the U.S. should reduce foreign aid somewhat, and funnel the savings into education.

Defense spending is only 6% of GDP, whereas total gov't spending is at 45% of GDP...I believe we can reallocate some of that 39%.:P

i think the length of the year is fine, making it a little longer couldn't hurt though. but i also think school should be more hardcore; make it harder, and harsher punishments for not completing work, skipping class, etc.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="topsemag55"]

You make a good point; however, states are strapped for the cash to pay for fuel for school buses, teachers' salaries, etc. for even a week's extension of schooling.

Plus property taxes are already at prohibitive levels in a lot of states.

topsemag55

Thus my contention that the U.S. should reduce foreign aid somewhat, and funnel the savings into education.

Defense spending is only 6% of GDP, whereas total gov't spending is at 45% of GDP...I believe we can reallocate some of that 39%.:P

I'm not a U.S Citizien but the U.S school year is shorter then the Canadian one by about 10-15 days and has a higher percentage of graduates per capita by about 10-15% Increasing the school year isn't going to make the students any smarter. Infact there was a study showing that the average U.S IQ trumps the Canadian one by 1 point and we go to school longer (190 day school year compared to the 175-180 day U.S school year). Kind of hard to believe seeing as how some Americans can't even point there own country on a map.

I speak against the education system in general by saying class times are to long and weekends are to short. Spending 7-8 hours a day (+ a hour or two of homework) at school for 5/7 days of the week is simply to long. What they need to do is make classes shorter and give a extra day to the weekend. I think you would find smarter students if the education systems stopped putting so much pressure and work on the students and started school at 12pm and went to around 5pm (with a 1 hour break around 3pm) instead of so early in the morning. There are many studies that indicate a vast majority of teenagers go to school sleep deprived and it effects there learning capacity quite a bit. There is other studies indicating high amounts of stress and anxiety on high school students to.

I'm not saying to make the work any easier but to make the day a hour shorter and to start the day a bit later. This would lower the money the government needs to spend on education and up the learning capacity of teens who go to school by quite a bit.

My opinion anyways feel free to go all "IN MY DAY WHEN I WAS A YOUNG KID WE HAD TO____________" World is a lot harder now then it was back thirty years ago....hell you need post secondary education now unless you want to live with your parents for the rest of your life or in a crappy runned down apartment.

XileLord

Also it is hard to beat a education system with a no-fail policy (for graduation stats).

I really don't like the sound of myself being patriotic but I am about Canada's education system as it is pretty top tier. I don't understand your statistics because last time I checked Canada was in the top 3 in the world for pre-secondary schooling.

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] You are right that a lot of states and towns are strapped for cash and that local and state taxes are often too high as a result, but there's a very simple solution to that - increase federal funding. We can't reform the education system in the U.S. without doing that. -Sun_Tzu-

Thus my contention that the U.S. should reduce foreign aid somewhat, and funnel the savings into education.

Defense spending is only 6% of GDP, whereas total gov't spending is at 45% of GDP...I believe we can reallocate some of that 39%.:P

Again a good point, but Obama's income cutoff places a lot of small business owners into a Catch-22...they do the most hiring, but won't do any with higher taxation.

My thought would be Obama should raise the cutoff to $1 million.

If Teachers would do their job as a teacher effectively and students actually be willing to learn, then longer school years should not be necessary.

quality of teaching > quantity of teaching.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="topsemag55"]

Thus my contention that the U.S. should reduce foreign aid somewhat, and funnel the savings into education.

Defense spending is only 6% of GDP, whereas total gov't spending is at 45% of GDP...I believe we can reallocate some of that 39%.:P

topsemag55

Again a good point, but Obama's income cutoff places a lot of small business owners into a Catch-22...they do the most hiring, but won't do any with higher taxation.

My thought would be Obama should raise the cutoff to $1 million.

Making the school year longer won't change anything if they don't fix the problems with the current system first.

Besides, I remember having entire weeks in some classes in high school, where we would just watch a different movie every class period. Something tells me that if the school year were longer, there would just be more days wasted like this.