Payout to families of IRA and loyalist terrorists.

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] Northern Ireland is a country though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_ireland#cite_note-1MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] Political change was needed, as you pointed out the majority of the North was protestant and unionist. but this led to alot of problems and hardship for Nationalists and catholics, politics were failing as i said and force is sometimes necessary... PIRA held there morals throughout the conflict and tried to avoid civillian death, they never intentionally aimed to kill civillian targets.RiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] It depends how you look at it, yes it is widely accepted as a country but It was set as a temporary state. And it at anytime can be revoked into the Republic through a majority vote under the Good Friday Agreement. hence why it doesnt yet hold it's own national identity. RiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] Apparent hardship of the nationalists is no justification of terrorism. Also, I'm afraid the IRA obviously didn't try hard enough to avoid civillian death.MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] So, in a few years Scotland could depart away from the UK, that doesn't mean it isn't a nation now. Similarly, in a few years, there could be a majority vote to integrate NI into Ireland as a whole. That doesn't mean NI isn't a country now.MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] Yes it is. there is alot to what cause the trouble starting and i mean alot. they Catholic community took it for long enough. And again you Brand IRA as a whole which IRA are you refering to? because the Provisional IRA always give advanced warnings of there bomb attacks to evacuate civilians from the area. RiseAgainst12

It is still highly irresponsible of the PIRA.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] Scotland was established on different grounds. and if a majority vote passes an all Ireland then it will be and all ireland.RiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Six#Birmingham_pub_bombings I'm talking about the PIRA specifically. This isn't exaclty a case of prior warning.MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] yes that was a tragic lose of live and cannot be justified but read into it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_pub_bombings You will see that warnings were attempted but it was the failure of a few members not the PIRA as an organisation.RiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] When have i shown Bias? This topic singles out the Nationalist paramillitaries. i am simply sticking to the topic. and IRA as a whole directs so many organisations and views and it is wrong to clump them together.RiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] This topic is not bias at all. Not at all is there a hint of bias in the OP.MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] That article says that they only gave them 6 minutes to evacuate a crowded oub. Now that's not much time, considering the PIRA didn't contact the pub directly.MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] Yes it is as it only points the blame at Nationalist paramilitaries while ignoring Loyalist Paramilitaries and British Agents.RiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] "that the phone boxes that were supposed to have been used by IRA volunteers to phone in a warning about the bombs were vandalised so they had to find another one some distance away." as i said it was the failure of a few members not the organisation the warning should have been much longer but they didnt plan out a back-upRiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] The OP doesn't blame anyone, it just asks whether it is right to give the same amount of money to the family of dead PIRA fighters as the family members of their victims.MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] "Payout to families of IRA terrorists." why single out IRA 'Terrorists'. should have been directed at the fact even paramilitaries will be conpensated on both sides. RiseAgainst12

IRA covers so many splinter organisations spread over many periods of the past 100 years. and i assure you the main body of that the Provisional IRA are not a Terrorist organisation. What makes me sick is the fact the British government can try and brush the disgusting things they allowed to happen here with such a patheticc amount of money. dont get me started on this but i find your ignorance towards the conflict offensive.RiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="mattykovax"]We were not occupying al-Qa'ida's land. ireland has been occupied for so long people seem to think its right,and it is not.RiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] so the British never invaded hundreds of years ago? They didn't prosecute the native Irish? drive them off there land and keep them from it? denie them the right to rule themselves? you clearly have little knowledge on this.mattykovax

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] True. But the majority of civilian deaths were commited by the IRA and not the loyalist paramilitaries.MetalGear_Ninty

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] It's not an occupation if Northern Ireland is considered to be part of one nation/kingdom as a whole i.e. the United Kingdom markop2003

[QUOTE="mattykovax"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] So are you trying say that Northern Ireland isn't a part of the UK? Is that what you are trying to say? Because unless you can, you have no grounds to say that I have little knowledge of this subject.markop2003

lol it's rather funny seeing people trying to justify them, but they are, were and always will be a terrorist organisation. This is an organisation that resorts to murder, extortion, hostage taking etc. All you need to do is to read a few books to know these people were the scum of the earth, just like any other terrorist threat today, and their families don't deserve a cent.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] I think you will find that statement to be false: 873 civilians were killed by loyalists, 738 by republicans.RiseAgainst12

It makes me very angry when many American's try to justify the IRA and even angrier the fact that the American public was the biggest funder of the terrorist organisation of the IRA. Yet it's fine when America invade countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and proclaim Al Queda terroristsspark5050

[QUOTE="spark5050"]It makes me very angry when many American's try to justify the IRA and even angrier the fact that the American public was the biggest funder of the terrorist organisation of the IRA. Yet it's fine when America invade countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and proclaim Al Queda terroristsRiseAgainst12

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="spark5050"]It makes me very angry when many American's try to justify the IRA and even angrier the fact that the American public was the biggest funder of the terrorist organisation of the IRA. Yet it's fine when America invade countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and proclaim Al Queda terroristsspark5050

lol it's rather funny seeing people trying to justify them, but they are, were and always will be a terrorist organisation. This is an organisation that resorts to murder, extortion, hostage taking etc. All you need to do is to read a few books to know these people were the scum of the earth, just like any other terrorist threat today, and their families don't deserve a cent.

Leejjohno

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

lol it's rather funny seeing people trying to justify them, but they are, were and always will be a terrorist organisation. This is an organisation that resorts to murder, extortion, hostage taking etc. All you need to do is to read a few books to know these people were the scum of the earth, just like any other terrorist threat today, and their families don't deserve a cent.

RiseAgainst12

So what? Some bunch of morons in the British army start killing people. If anything it is an indication that sitting in the boot of a car and firing a barratt at soldiers isn't going to get rid of the problem, nor is blowing up hotels, prior warning or not.

Diplomatic solutions work far better, it's just a shame that the IRA didn't resort to this in the begining, rather than stealing cars, kidnapping the owner as insurance and then doing a driveby on a high profile target. I guess that was the only honourable thing to do.

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="spark5050"] Sorry, but your wrong http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1563119.stmspark5050

you're talking about something different....you are talking about when the leader of the IRA was michael collins,it's a different IRA we're talking about

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

lol it's rather funny seeing people trying to justify them, but they are, were and always will be a terrorist organisation. This is an organisation that resorts to murder, extortion, hostage taking etc. All you need to do is to read a few books to know these people were the scum of the earth, just like any other terrorist threat today, and their families don't deserve a cent.

Leejjohno

So what? Some bunch of morons in the British army start killing people. If anything it is an indication that sitting in the boot of a car and firing a barratt at soldiers isn't going to get rid of the problem, nor is blowing up hotels, prior warning or not.

Diplomatic solutions work far better, it's just a shame that the IRA didn't resort to this in the begining, rather than stealing cars, kidnapping the owner as insurance and then doing a driveby on a high profile target. I guess that was the only honourable thing to do.

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"][QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falls_Curfew there is your 'terrorists'RiseAgainst12

So what? Some bunch of morons in the British army start killing people. If anything it is an indication that sitting in the boot of a car and firing a barratt at soldiers isn't going to get rid of the problem, nor is blowing up hotels, prior warning or not.

Diplomatic solutions work far better, it's just a shame that the IRA didn't resort to this in the begining, rather than stealing cars, kidnapping the owner as insurance and then doing a driveby on a high profile target. I guess that was the only honourable thing to do.

I am not belittling their deaths, but does blowing up a hotel make it right just because it's in England? I think not. You would have to be out of your ****ing mind to take on the British army, so peace should have been the only way forward (unless you think that to progress you would have to kill civillians in England). The second a soldier is killed, do you think that his friends may be more careful in future, or maybe.... do you think they will become bitter and violent towards civilians that celebrate when soldiers are killed, I know I would. I would be more determined to kill and maybe my personal bias would start to show.

From this position I see an Army that was only disiplined for combat being used as a peacekeeping force, that was a mistake yes, but terrorism is exactly what the IRA resorted to. So lets not bring up incidents and just look at the facts.

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

So what? Some bunch of morons in the British army start killing people. If anything it is an indication that sitting in the boot of a car and firing a barratt at soldiers isn't going to get rid of the problem, nor is blowing up hotels, prior warning or not.

Diplomatic solutions work far better, it's just a shame that the IRA didn't resort to this in the begining, rather than stealing cars, kidnapping the owner as insurance and then doing a driveby on a high profile target. I guess that was the only honourable thing to do.

Leejjohno

I am not belittling their deaths, but does blowing up a hotel make it right just because it's in England? I think not. You would have to be out of your ****ing mind to take on the British army, so peace should have been the only way forward (unless you think that to progress you would have to kill civillians in England). The second a soldier is killed, do you think that his friends may be more careful in future, or maybe.... do you think they will become bitter and violent towards civilians that celebrate when soldiers are killed, I know I would. I would be more determined to kill and maybe my personal bias would start to show.

From this position I see an Army that was only disiplined for combat being used as a peacekeeping force, that was a mistake yes, but terrorism is exactly what the IRA resorted to. So lets not bring up incidents and just look at the facts.