Please Vote For REAL CHANGE on Nov. 4th Vote Obama-Biden

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#201 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Both candidates aren't good. But McCain is not AS bad. So, if I could, I would vote for McCain. If only we had more politicians like Reagan... *sigh*battlefront23

Thankfully we don't....

Huh?

Huh nothing. The deficit was high.....he put the screws to the working cIass....his trickle down economics didn't trickle down....Irangate.....etc.
Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#202 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Both candidates aren't good. But McCain is not AS bad. So, if I could, I would vote for McCain. If only we had more politicians like Reagan... *sigh*LJS9502_basic

Thankfully we don't....

Huh?

Huh nothing. The deficit was high.....he put the screws to the working cIass....his trickle down economics didn't trickle down....Irangate.....etc.

Considering what was put in his hands after Carter screwed everything up, he did a good job, regardless of any mistakes he may have made. We avoided a war with Russia, first off. He did spend too much, but his philosophy is much better than Obama or McCain.

Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
deactivated-59d151f079814

47239

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#203 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Both candidates aren't good. But McCain is not AS bad. So, if I could, I would vote for McCain. If only we had more politicians like Reagan... *sigh*LJS9502_basic

Thankfully we don't....

Huh?

Huh nothing. The deficit was high.....he put the screws to the working cIass....his trickle down economics didn't trickle down....Irangate.....etc.

Don't forget he armed both Iran and Iraq with weapons to kill one another.. Real humanitarian there.

Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
deactivated-59d151f079814

47239

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#204 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Both candidates aren't good. But McCain is not AS bad. So, if I could, I would vote for McCain. If only we had more politicians like Reagan... *sigh*battlefront23

Thankfully we don't....

Huh?

Huh nothing. The deficit was high.....he put the screws to the working cIass....his trickle down economics didn't trickle down....Irangate.....etc.

Considering what was put in his hands after Carter screwed everything up, he did a good job, regardless of any mistakes he may have made. We avoided a war with Russia, first off. He did spend too much, but his philosophy is much better than Obama or McCain.

The same can be said every every president through out the entire Cold War.. Reagan did nothing special over the other presidents that were in office during the Cold War to bring it to a end.

Avatar image for superheromonkey
superheromonkey

1568

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#205 superheromonkey
Member since 2005 • 1568 Posts
sorry, I like the idea of a republic too much to vote for him.
Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#206 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Both candidates aren't good. But McCain is not AS bad. So, if I could, I would vote for McCain. If only we had more politicians like Reagan... *sigh*sSubZerOo

Thankfully we don't....

Huh?

Huh nothing. The deficit was high.....he put the screws to the working cIass....his trickle down economics didn't trickle down....Irangate.....etc.

Considering what was put in his hands after Carter screwed everything up, he did a good job, regardless of any mistakes he may have made. We avoided a war with Russia, first off. He did spend too much, but his philosophy is much better than Obama or McCain.

The same can be said every every president through out the entire Cold War.. Reagan did nothing special over the other presidents that were in office during the Cold War to bring it to a end.

That can be argued actually. This is one of the problems with history; it is often subjective opinion rather than objective facts. All I know is the Cold War ended during his terms and we soared in national debt, although we weren't taxed. But that doesn't mean high taxation solves everything. It never has and I don't think it ever will.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#207 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts

That can be argued actually. This is one of the problems with history; it is often subjective opinion rather than objective facts. All I know is the Cold War ended during his terms and we soared in national debt, although we weren't taxed. But that doesn't mean high taxation solves everything. It never has and I don't think it ever will.

battlefront23
You're kidding right? The Cold War ended because the Soviet Union fell from within. Reagan had nothing to do with that.:|
Avatar image for superheromonkey
superheromonkey

1568

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#208 superheromonkey
Member since 2005 • 1568 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Both candidates aren't good. But McCain is not AS bad. So, if I could, I would vote for McCain. If only we had more politicians like Reagan... *sigh*sSubZerOo

Thankfully we don't....

Huh?

Huh nothing. The deficit was high.....he put the screws to the working cIass....his trickle down economics didn't trickle down....Irangate.....etc.

Considering what was put in his hands after Carter screwed everything up, he did a good job, regardless of any mistakes he may have made. We avoided a war with Russia, first off. He did spend too much, but his philosophy is much better than Obama or McCain.

The same can be said every every president through out the entire Cold War.. Reagan did nothing special over the other presidents that were in office during the Cold War to bring it to a end.

Abraham Lincoln had nothing to do with the Civil war being ended, and FDR had nothing to do with the great depression and WW 2 coming to an end (see i can do it too)

Avatar image for GamerForca
GamerForca

7203

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 78

User Lists: 0

#209 GamerForca
Member since 2005 • 7203 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Both candidates aren't good. But McCain is not AS bad. So, if I could, I would vote for McCain. If only we had more politicians like Reagan... *sigh*battlefront23

Thankfully we don't....

Huh?

Reagan did a good job with the economy, but it was his deregulations (Reagonomics) that started many of the problems our economy now faces. Great for his time.. would be horrid now..

Avatar image for superheromonkey
superheromonkey

1568

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#210 superheromonkey
Member since 2005 • 1568 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

That can be argued actually. This is one of the problems with history; it is often subjective opinion rather than objective facts. All I know is the Cold War ended during his terms and we soared in national debt, although we weren't taxed. But that doesn't mean high taxation solves everything. It never has and I don't think it ever will.

LJS9502_basic

You're kidding right? The Cold War ended because the Soviet Union fell from within. Reagan had nothing to do with that.:|

It is true ignorance to say that Reagan had nothing to do with the cold war ending.

Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#211 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

That can be argued actually. This is one of the problems with history; it is often subjective opinion rather than objective facts. All I know is the Cold War ended during his terms and we soared in national debt, although we weren't taxed. But that doesn't mean high taxation solves everything. It never has and I don't think it ever will.

LJS9502_basic
You're kidding right? The Cold War ended because the Soviet Union fell from within. Reagan had nothing to do with that.:|

So my history books lie to me then? :| I recall it being a mix of both, actually.
Avatar image for Snooky_McGoo
Snooky_McGoo

343

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#212 Snooky_McGoo
Member since 2008 • 343 Posts
Allot of the changes president's make don't have any effect until after they're gone, most of the time the credit goes to the wrong person.
Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#213 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts
So my history books lie to me then? :| I recall it being a mix of both, actually.
battlefront23
Really? And what exactly did Reagan do to collapse the Soviet Union? Sadly he is given way too much credit in this country.
Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#214 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts

Allot of the changes president's make don't have any effect until after they're gone, most of the time the credit goes to the wrong person.Snooky_McGoo

A perfect example is Slick Willy.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#215 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts
Allot of the changes president's make don't have any effect until after they're gone, most of the time the credit goes to the wrong person.Snooky_McGoo
That's a fallacy....
Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#216 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts

[QUOTE="battlefront23"] So my history books lie to me then? :| I recall it being a mix of both, actually.
LJS9502_basic
Really? And what exactly did Reagan do to collapse the Soviet Union? Sadly he is given way too much credit in this country.

"Mr. Gorbachev (sp?), tear down your wall." Ronald Reagan.

Avatar image for -TheSecondSign-
-TheSecondSign-

9303

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#217 -TheSecondSign-
Member since 2007 • 9303 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]Both candidates aren't good. But McCain is not AS bad. So, if I could, I would vote for McCain. If only we had more politicians like Reagan... *sigh*kingyotoX

Thankfully we don't....

Huh?

Pay no mind to him, he's crazy.

You have no idea who you're calling crazy, do you?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#218 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"] So my history books lie to me then? :| I recall it being a mix of both, actually.
battlefront23

Really? And what exactly did Reagan do to collapse the Soviet Union? Sadly he is given way too much credit in this country.

"Mr. Gorbachev (sp?), tear down your wall." Ronald Reagan.

You have got to be kidding me.:|
Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#219 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"] So my history books lie to me then? :| I recall it being a mix of both, actually.
LJS9502_basic

Really? And what exactly did Reagan do to collapse the Soviet Union? Sadly he is given way too much credit in this country.

"Mr. Gorbachev (sp?), tear down your wall." Ronald Reagan.

You have got to be kidding me.:|

No I'm not. To have a confident, well spoken individual speak those exact words did a lot the Russian resolve. Reagan would not back down.

Avatar image for btaylor2404
btaylor2404

11353

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 35

User Lists: 0

#220 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
I am, and have been volunteering part time at his HQ here in Little Rock, it's only a block from my job. This is the first time (33 years old) I've felt truly inspired by a Presidential candidate. Now he may not deliver on a single thing, but I do have hope.
Avatar image for superheromonkey
superheromonkey

1568

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#221 superheromonkey
Member since 2005 • 1568 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"] So my history books lie to me then? :| I recall it being a mix of both, actually.
LJS9502_basic

Really? And what exactly did Reagan do to collapse the Soviet Union? Sadly he is given way too much credit in this country.

"Mr. Gorbachev (sp?), tear down your wall." Ronald Reagan.

You have got to be kidding me.:|

That Reagan had some role in contributing to the downfall of the Soviet Union is collectively agreed, but the extent of this role is continuously debated,[229] with many believing that Reagan's defense policies, hard line rhetoric against the Soviet Union and Communism, as well as summits with General Secretary Gorbachev played a significant part in ending the War.[229][98]

Here...

Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
deactivated-59d151f079814

47239

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#222 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

Abraham Lincoln had nothing to do with the Civil war being ended, and FDR had nothing to do with the great depression and WW 2 coming to an end (see i can do it too)

superheromonkey

Yeah you can do that and make your self look completely uneducated..

Lincoln played a direct role in the civil war, he chose Grant, which was used to commit total war.. Lincoln based his stratgy on a war of attrition..

FDR really didn't do anything for the Great Depression but make it alittle more comfy for the people.. The war is what brought us from the stoopor.. And the second party FDR just showed great leadership, he was a interesting figure but alot what he did could have been put in the hands of some one else that was capable..

Reagan did NOTHING.. THE SOVIET UNION collapsed on its self.. There was no real war, there was no real battle.. Soviet Union was suppose to be a self sufficient economy, a economy that collapsed in on it self with out intervention..

Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
deactivated-59d151f079814

47239

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#223 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"] So my history books lie to me then? :| I recall it being a mix of both, actually.
superheromonkey

Really? And what exactly did Reagan do to collapse the Soviet Union? Sadly he is given way too much credit in this country.

"Mr. Gorbachev (sp?), tear down your wall." Ronald Reagan.

You have got to be kidding me.:|

Here...

... Wait so how did this lead to the downfall of their economy?

Avatar image for kingyotoX
kingyotoX

2689

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#224 kingyotoX
Member since 2007 • 2689 Posts
I would like to add that reagan increased defense spending which the soviets couldn't meet and ended up collapsing there economy.
Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
deactivated-59d151f079814

47239

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#225 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

I would like to add that reagan increased defense spending which the soviets couldn't meet and ended up collapsing there economy. kingyotoX

Every president through out the time did that, it was a balance of power arms race :?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#226 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts

No I'm not. To have a confident, well spoken individual speak those exact words did a lot the Russian resolve. Reagan would not back down.

battlefront23
:lol: Sorry dude but it was more the state of the Soviet Union at the time than some weak rhetoric from a US president.
Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#227 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

No I'm not. To have a confident, well spoken individual speak those exact words did a lot the Russian resolve. Reagan would not back down.

LJS9502_basic

:lol: Sorry dude but it was more the state of the Soviet Union at the time than some weak rhetoric from a US president.

But before you stated that Reagan did nothing. That's not true at all, and even if it was, how could it be proven?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#228 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts

But before you stated that Reagan did nothing. That's not true at all, and even if it was, how could it be proven?

battlefront23
Reagan DIDN'T end the Soviet Union. Their economy collapsed. I've said that several times. Statements like this are why other countries get annoyed with the US. Reagan just happened to be president went they fell. Could have been anyone elected at that time. All you gave me for evidence that he ended the cold war was a weak statement he said when he was already advised the Soviet Union was dying.
Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#229 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

But before you stated that Reagan did nothing. That's not true at all, and even if it was, how could it be proven?

LJS9502_basic

Reagan DIDN'T end the Soviet Union. Their economy collapsed. I've said that several times. Statements like this are why other countries get annoyed with the US. Reagan just happened to be president went they fell. Could have been anyone elected at that time. All you gave me for evidence that he ended the cold war was a weak statement he said when he was already advised the Soviet Union was dying.

Obviously he didn't end it by himself by I think and have been told by my teacher, (about as knowledgeable as you can get about history) my history book, and my father that he was a instrument in their fall.

Avatar image for lilburtonboy748
lilburtonboy748

2536

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#230 lilburtonboy748
Member since 2007 • 2536 Posts
[QUOTE="superheromonkey"]

Abraham Lincoln had nothing to do with the Civil war being ended, and FDR had nothing to do with the great depression and WW 2 coming to an end (see i can do it too)

sSubZerOo

Yeah you can do that and make your self look completely uneducated..

Lincoln played a direct role in the civil war, he chose Grant, which was used to commit total war.. Lincoln based his stratgy on a war of attrition..

FDR really didn't do anything for the Great Depression but make it alittle more comfy for the people.. The war is what brought us from the stoopor.. And the second party FDR just showed great leadership, he was a interesting figure but alot what he did could have been put in the hands of some one else that was capable..

Reagan did NOTHING.. THE SOVIET UNION collapsed on its self.. There was no real war, there was no real battle.. Soviet Union was suppose to be a self sufficient economy, a economy that collapsed in on it self with out intervention..

Holy Crap! I agree with you!!

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#231 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts

Obviously he didn't end it by himself by I think and have been told by my teacher, (about as knowledgeable as you can get about history) my history book, and my father that he was a instrument in their fall.

battlefront23
All three of which are biased. I'd bet if you read a Russian history book...or European history book you'd get a completely different story. Think about it...
Avatar image for deactivated-59d151f079814
deactivated-59d151f079814

47239

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#232 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

But before you stated that Reagan did nothing. That's not true at all, and even if it was, how could it be proven?

battlefront23

Reagan DIDN'T end the Soviet Union. Their economy collapsed. I've said that several times. Statements like this are why other countries get annoyed with the US. Reagan just happened to be president went they fell. Could have been anyone elected at that time. All you gave me for evidence that he ended the cold war was a weak statement he said when he was already advised the Soviet Union was dying.

Obviously he didn't end it by himself by I think and have been told by my teacher, (about as knowledgeable as you can get about history) my history book, and my father that he was a instrument in their fall.

The only thing he has done is to not allow for a nuclear holacaust to happen, which is exactly what every other president did during the cold war.. This isn't to say he didn't do anything, but to some how put him on the pedastal over the other presidents all because he was fortunate to have Russia collapse during his adminstration doing nothing really new over the past presidents, is insulting.

Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#233 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Obviously he didn't end it by himself by I think and have been told by my teacher, (about as knowledgeable as you can get about history) my history book, and my father that he was a instrument in their fall.

LJS9502_basic

All three of which are biased. I'd bet if you read a Russian history book...or European history book you'd get a ompletely different story. Think about it...

And you know that how? Exactly why history isn't objective; or else it would simply be stats. Me saying Hitler was evil would be merely be subjective, right?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#234 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts

And you know that how? Exactly why history isn't objective; or else it would simply be stats. Me saying Hitler was evil would be merely be subjective, right?

battlefront23
Everything has bias dude. Including history books. You should do a side by side comparison of the same events through different eyes. A US history book will exaggerate US involvement.
Avatar image for thelastguy
thelastguy

12030

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#235 thelastguy
Member since 2007 • 12030 Posts
I would vote Obama if I was a US citizen.
Avatar image for despa1r_fact0r
despa1r_fact0r

24611

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 17

User Lists: 0

#236 despa1r_fact0r
Member since 2008 • 24611 Posts

I want change and Obama has my vote.

Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#237 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

And you know that how? Exactly why history isn't objective; or else it would simply be stats. Me saying Hitler was evil would be merely be subjective, right?

LJS9502_basic

Everything has bias dude. Including history books. You should do a side by side comparison of the same events through different eyes. A US history book will exaggerate US involvement.

Exactly. But to say Reagan had NOTHING to do with it seems far too bold. At least in my opinion. In a sense the only history that can be trusted is stats; even then they may be tampered with.

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#238 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

And you know that how? Exactly why history isn't objective; or else it would simply be stats. Me saying Hitler was evil would be merely be subjective, right?

battlefront23

Everything has bias dude. Including history books. You should do a side by side comparison of the same events through different eyes. A US history book will exaggerate US involvement.

Exactly. But to say Reagan had NOTHING to do with it seems far too bold. At least in my opinion. In a sense the only history that can be trusted is stats; even then they may be tampered with.

It was the collapse of the Soviet Union. Not Reagan. We'll have to agree to disagree here. Perhaps someday you will see it differently.
Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#239 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

And you know that how? Exactly why history isn't objective; or else it would simply be stats. Me saying Hitler was evil would be merely be subjective, right?

LJS9502_basic

Everything has bias dude. Including history books. You should do a side by side comparison of the same events through different eyes. A US history book will exaggerate US involvement.

Exactly. But to say Reagan had NOTHING to do with it seems far too bold. At least in my opinion. In a sense the only history that can be trusted is stats; even then they may be tampered with.

It was the collapse of the Soviet Union. Not Reagan. We'll have to agree to disagree here. Perhaps someday you will see it differently.

Well what do you mean by collapse? Economcially?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#240 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts

Well what do you mean by collapse? Economcially?

battlefront23
Yes. They were struggling long before Reagan told them to tear down the wall. They couldn't sustain it. As stated...Reagan just happened to be in the right place at the right time.
Avatar image for bungie93
bungie93

2445

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#241 bungie93
Member since 2008 • 2445 Posts

[QUOTE="bungie93"]You sound like an Obama surrogate. Do you realize that Obama's "changes" include increased taxes, increased spending, socialized government, and more government control in every facet of life.anasbouzid

if you lost a pint for every outright lie in you post you would be dead right now. Your lucky God punishes liers after death...you still got time to amend you sins

If your responses made an ounce of sense, people might actually listen to you. Typical Obama supporter. You can't even write coherently and yet you think you know what's best for the country.

Avatar image for warbmxjohn
warbmxjohn

6014

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#242 warbmxjohn
Member since 2007 • 6014 Posts

Let me answer this first, you said "Creating jobs is giving back in a sense but it still works in your favor as it potentially increases your revenue." sure it works in my favor, but do not mistake increasd revenue with increased profits.

Yeah, so first off, this is the second and third time you have put labels on me by calling me "ignorant" and "greedy" and all within just a few short post, I am proud of you.

Now, if you are ready to listen, and not sit on your high horse and say that "all Americans should give back because they were given a chance" than maybe you will learn something.

You are right and wrong about me on a few things.

1) You are correct in saying that I really do not know a whole lot about the Detroit metro area, I have never lived there. However, I have worked there on and off, and have had a few friends that have had to move from there. I also know that while Detroit has been effected over the years by the troubles of the auto industry, I also know that Detroit is really not that much different than all other major metropolitan areas in the country where one industry or another used dominate the landscape. I understand that people in the long run have gotten hurt, or seemed to be dealt a bad hand, and I also know that yes, it would be EXPECTED of me to "change my life style" if I were in the same situation. Did someone force huge home loans on them? Or force them to use so much credit? I don't think so.

2) You are right again, I have never "starved", but I do remember being 5, 8 or 11 years old and having both of my parents work two jobs each just so we could eat. And guess what, that gave them VERY little time at how to spend with their kids on such important things as homework.

3) You are wrong in stating that I have probably never struggled. The fact is, that I have struggle more in my adult life than I ever remember my family doing when I was young. And yes, I mean struggle to the point where I did not know where, or when my next meal was coming, or if I would be able to figure out how to get to work. I even went on unemployment once..... and you may find this hard, or even impossible to believe, but I paid EVERY penny of that unemployment back to the state, and it was in the thousands of dollars. Never had my way paid through school, never even went to school outside of high school.

4) I would never say I have a "fantasy" of rags to riches, but what I would say is that I NEVER would expect that others would carry my burden, give me a free meal, or give me what they have earned through their own hard work.

I work for a small, family owned private company (you may have even figured that out) and guess what... we go through ups and downs that are not easy, it's not always rainbows and truffles. We employee, on average, 20 people and you know what we do when things get tough and we maybe don't have enough work for everybody? We tough it out and figure out ways to make it through, we don't lay off. We also have a very generous profit sharing program that each employee is FORCED to join..... if we turn a profit at the end of the year, we give them money whether or not they want it! WOW, that sounds like greed to me.

You asked "who else could feasibly help the nation, besides the rich?" How about.... Everybody just doing their part? How about a flat tax? One where EVERYBODY, no matter how much they make gets taxed the same percentage? Oh.. maybe in your eyes that still won't work because the person making 20k a year is still going to feel the effects more than somebody making 250k a year? When the results are really what you are looking for, the "rich" person in your eyes would still be paying A LOT more than the "poor"

Tell, me this. I am going to assume that you have some disposable income of some sort, mainly because you are on the internet and probably paying for a connection. You also (again I assume) have a gaming hobby where you spend money on systems and games. We all know that we do not "need" the interne, or games and systems to survive, so why don't you take what ever it is you spend on your ISP and games every year and hand it to your neighbor that could use the money for healthcare?

Gen_Warbuff

Yeah you're right, what was I thinking compassion is for the weak. No one ever needs a helping hand. Every one should take care of themselves and completely disregard the option of helping others in need. Cause no one has ever had an unfortunate circumstance come their way. No failure loser of a person deserves to receive help. The multiple homeless shelters my mother and I lived in when I was a child cause My single mother just could not afford to adequately provide care for me were just enabling her to be lazy. You know because my biological father ended up being a total piece of crap and knocked most of my mothers teeth out when I was still an infant and was then denied parental rights, so no child support for us by court order. So just surviving was an exceptional feat and an incredible burden for her to carry. If there were not kind compassionate people there to help out we both would more than likely be dead. But that was all her fault and if she just worked a lil harder she could have fixed it all. And I promise you every word of that is truth. But no one deserves help period. Its all so obvious now.

Enjoy your happy life and your money, Im sorry if anything I said offended you. I am done with this argument as Im just too simple minded of a pathetic loser to handle debating with someone with such unbridled perfection. I will never again dare suggesting than any able person help another in need. Thats just fool talk, I see it all so clearly now. The rich should be left to get richer and the middle class and lower class citizens better make it work or be doomed to suffer for their failure to adequately fix their own lives.

And yes I have so much disposable income to spare cause I have some hobbies I pursue I should abandon the tiny amount of joy I have in my very meager life and I should help. I have finally have a few nice things after having a pretty dang bad life that I have bought for myself through hard work. And I mean very few, far less than 10,000 in total value of every possesion I have to my name. How couldn't I see that sooner. Thanks for enlightening me. I am sorry for prancing around on my high horse cause I totally have the right to with all my leisures I have been granted. I am sorry. You are 100% correct in every way, please forgive me for being so stupid and getting offended by your words to the point I said such derogatory things about you. Have a nice life I repeat cause Im tired of defending my incredibly invalid viewpoint, to you. Its obvious how wrong I am in every way. No help for the weak. I get your point.

And to make myself clear I do not expect anything from anyone anymore I've accepted my place in society. I appreciate all the generous help I have received, and I do what I can to help others whenever I can even with my very limited capabilities. One of my friends is broke and is hungry I will pay for them to eat. Im not trying to brag cause I understand how measly my efforts are to help. I wish I could be in more of a position to help others, but Im one of those saps stuck working just to make it. I don't want any handouts or expect them anymore but I applaud those who were selfless enough help provide my Mom with means of survival and giving our lives value and hope when we had none. And now hopefully you can see why I got so worked up towards you. And why I will NEVER agree with you on this subject.

Avatar image for battlefront23
battlefront23

12625

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#243 battlefront23
Member since 2006 • 12625 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Well what do you mean by collapse? Economcially?

LJS9502_basic

Yes. They were struggling long before Reagan told them to tear down the wall. They couldn't sustain it. As stated...Reagan just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Where did you get this info though? And what could they not sustain? All the land they swallowed?

Avatar image for LJS9502_basic
LJS9502_basic

180088

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#244 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180088 Posts

Where did you get this info though? And what could they not sustain? All the land they swallowed?

battlefront23
I read history....and from several sources. When an economy collapses.....changes have to be made. The Soviet Union was economically challenged....and politically from within. They had to adapt and they did. Russia is just now starting to get back on it's feet.
Avatar image for btaylor2404
btaylor2404

11353

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 35

User Lists: 0

#245 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Where did you get this info though? And what could they not sustain? All the land they swallowed?

LJS9502_basic

I read history....and from several sources. When an economy collapses.....changes have to be made. The Soviet Union was economically challenged....and politically from within. They had to adapt and they did. Russia is just now starting to get back on it's feet.

For god's sake people LJS is right, if Mondale would have won in 84 Russia still would have collapsed. Communism was imploding as it always does, only China is able to make it work using a hybrid of Communism.

Avatar image for Acemaster27
Acemaster27

4482

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#246 Acemaster27
Member since 2004 • 4482 Posts
[QUOTE="anasbouzid"]

[QUOTE="bungie93"]You sound like an Obama surrogate. Do you realize that Obama's "changes" include increased taxes, increased spending, socialized government, and more government control in every facet of life.bungie93

if you lost a pint for every outright lie in you post you would be dead right now. Your lucky God punishes liers after death...you still got time to amend you sins

If your responses made an ounce of sense, people might actually listen to you. Typical Obama supporter. You can't even write coherently and yet you think you know what's best for the country.

Actually Obama will lower taxes, but increase them on the top 5% pf the population. He will then give that money to the poor iand those in need. Yes, spending will got up a little, but it would under McCain too because of inflation. Obama will not have the government take more control of all aspects of your life, only the ones in which big corporations are screwing over the middle class. As for socialized government, yes, obama is going to rebuild some of our country from the bottom up. Call it socialism if you like, helping the poor. I'll still call it helping the poor. And healing the sick (through his national health care).

Obama is change from the failed bush policies. Obama is hope for a nation that finds itself at a crossroads in time. America can either continue to crumble until it finally falls, or it can get on the path to regain its greatness. Obama can guide us on the latter course.

Avatar image for bsman00
bsman00

6038

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#247 bsman00
Member since 2008 • 6038 Posts
if you want real change we would vote for Ron Paul or Nader... who both are running for president... now that would be some real change....
Avatar image for Gen_Warbuff
Gen_Warbuff

8976

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 26

User Lists: 0

#248 Gen_Warbuff
Member since 2005 • 8976 Posts
[QUOTE="Gen_Warbuff"]

Let me answer this first, you said "Creating jobs is giving back in a sense but it still works in your favor as it potentially increases your revenue." sure it works in my favor, but do not mistake increasd revenue with increased profits.

Yeah, so first off, this is the second and third time you have put labels on me by calling me "ignorant" and "greedy" and all within just a few short post, I am proud of you.

Now, if you are ready to listen, and not sit on your high horse and say that "all Americans should give back because they were given a chance" than maybe you will learn something.

You are right and wrong about me on a few things.

1) You are correct in saying that I really do not know a whole lot about the Detroit metro area, I have never lived there. However, I have worked there on and off, and have had a few friends that have had to move from there. I also know that while Detroit has been effected over the years by the troubles of the auto industry, I also know that Detroit is really not that much different than all other major metropolitan areas in the country where one industry or another used dominate the landscape. I understand that people in the long run have gotten hurt, or seemed to be dealt a bad hand, and I also know that yes, it would be EXPECTED of me to "change my life style" if I were in the same situation. Did someone force huge home loans on them? Or force them to use so much credit? I don't think so.

2) You are right again, I have never "starved", but I do remember being 5, 8 or 11 years old and having both of my parents work two jobs each just so we could eat. And guess what, that gave them VERY little time at how to spend with their kids on such important things as homework.

3) You are wrong in stating that I have probably never struggled. The fact is, that I have struggle more in my adult life than I ever remember my family doing when I was young. And yes, I mean struggle to the point where I did not know where, or when my next meal was coming, or if I would be able to figure out how to get to work. I even went on unemployment once..... and you may find this hard, or even impossible to believe, but I paid EVERY penny of that unemployment back to the state, and it was in the thousands of dollars. Never had my way paid through school, never even went to school outside of high school.

4) I would never say I have a "fantasy" of rags to riches, but what I would say is that I NEVER would expect that others would carry my burden, give me a free meal, or give me what they have earned through their own hard work.

I work for a small, family owned private company (you may have even figured that out) and guess what... we go through ups and downs that are not easy, it's not always rainbows and truffles. We employee, on average, 20 people and you know what we do when things get tough and we maybe don't have enough work for everybody? We tough it out and figure out ways to make it through, we don't lay off. We also have a very generous profit sharing program that each employee is FORCED to join..... if we turn a profit at the end of the year, we give them money whether or not they want it! WOW, that sounds like greed to me.

You asked "who else could feasibly help the nation, besides the rich?" How about.... Everybody just doing their part? How about a flat tax? One where EVERYBODY, no matter how much they make gets taxed the same percentage? Oh.. maybe in your eyes that still won't work because the person making 20k a year is still going to feel the effects more than somebody making 250k a year? When the results are really what you are looking for, the "rich" person in your eyes would still be paying A LOT more than the "poor"

Tell, me this. I am going to assume that you have some disposable income of some sort, mainly because you are on the internet and probably paying for a connection. You also (again I assume) have a gaming hobby where you spend money on systems and games. We all know that we do not "need" the interne, or games and systems to survive, so why don't you take what ever it is you spend on your ISP and games every year and hand it to your neighbor that could use the money for healthcare?

warbmxjohn

Yeah you're right, what was I thinking compassion is for the weak. No one ever needs a helping hand. Every one should take care of themselves and completely disregard the option of helping others in need. Cause no one has ever had an unfortunate circumstance come their way. No failure loser of a person deserves to receive help. The multiple homeless shelters my mother and I lived in when I was a child cause My single mother just could not afford to adequately provide care for me were just enabling her to be lazy. You know because my biological father ended up being a total piece of crap and knocked most of my mothers teeth out when I was still an infant and was then denied parental rights, so no child support for us by court order. So just surviving was an exceptional feat and an incredible burden for her to carry. If there were not kind compassionate people there to help out we both would more than likely be dead. But that was all her fault and if she just worked a lil harder she could have fixed it all. And I promise you every word of that is truth. But no one deserves help period. Its all so obvious now.

Enjoy your happy life and your money, Im sorry if anything I said offended you. I am done with this argument as Im just too simple minded of a pathetic loser to handle debating with someone with such unbridled perfection. I will never again dare suggesting than any able person help another in need. Thats just fool talk, I see it all so clearly now. The rich should be left to get richer and the middle class and lower class citizens better make it work or be doomed to suffer for their failure to adequately fix their own lives.

And yes I have so much disposable income to spare cause I have some hobbies I pursue I should abandon the tiny amount of joy I have in my very meager life and I should help. I have finally have a few nice things after having a pretty dang bad life that I have bought for myself through hard work. And I mean very few, far less than 10,000 in total value of every possesion I have to my name. How couldn't I see that sooner. Thanks for enlightening me. I am sorry for prancing around on my high horse cause I totally have the right to with all my leisures I have been granted. I am sorry. You are 100% correct in every way, please forgive me for being so stupid and getting offended by your words to the point I said such derogatory things about you. Have a nice life I repeat cause Im tired of defending my incredibly invalid viewpoint, to you. Its obvious how wrong I am in every way. No help for the weak. I get your point.

And to make myself clear I do not expect anything from anyone anymore I've accepted my place in society. I appreciate all the generous help I have received, and I do what I can to help others whenever I can even with my very limited capabilities. One of my friends is broke and is hungry I will pay for them to eat. Im not trying to brag cause I understand how measly my efforts are to help. I wish I could be in more of a position to help others, but Im one of those saps stuck working just to make it. I don't want any handouts or expect them anymore but I applaud those who were selfless enough help provide my Mom with means of survival and giving our lives value and hope when we had none. And now hopefully you can see why I got so worked up towards you. And why I will NEVER agree with you on this subject.

WOW... nothing better than sounding like a hypocrite...... You started this whole thing off by saying that I sould just give up what is mine for the better of the country, mine being the "excessive money that I make" but as soon as somebody suggest that you give up the "comforts of life" for the betterment of your neighbors, those comforts being your internet & games, you say NO WAY....... LMAO... thanks for proving my point for me.

If you noticed I never said I would not help, and like you, I DO help when I can, where I can. What I did say is that I am NOT for free handouts or just blindly giving away what I worked hard for, and from the sounds of it, either are you.... put rules in place that will force people to get on their feet, to at least TRY and pay things back.

Thanks for the discussion, it was fun!