Privitize Social Security?

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worlock77

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#101 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

All the gold mined in the history of the world would not cover one half of the current U.S. economy.

Laihendi

I guess paper does though?

Evidently so.

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Yusuke420

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#102 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

All the gold mined in the history of the world would not cover one half of the current U.S. economy.

Laihendi

I guess paper does though?

Apparently, since it is what we use. Also the dollar isn't printed on what is commonly known as paper. The formula is actually a denim fiber, mixed with various unknown materials. There was a really interesting PBS documentary on how it's made. 

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kuraimen

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#103 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="worlock77"]

All the gold mined in the history of the world would not cover one half of the current U.S. economy.

Laihendi
I guess paper does though?

Not even that would be my guess. I don't think there's a way to print all that e-money.
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Fightingfan

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#104 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

All the gold mined in the history of the world would not cover one half of the current U.S. economy.

worlock77
depends how we would valued gold. Gold wouldn't be $1600-1700 an ounce like it is now, obviously way higher.
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Yusuke420

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#105 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

All the gold mined in the history of the world would not cover one half of the current U.S. economy.

kuraimen

I guess paper does though?

Not even that would be my guess. I don't think there's a way to print all that e-money.

Sure it can be done. All it would require is a new denomination of cash. They could litterally make serveral trillion dollar bills. 

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lx_theo

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#106 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"][QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"]It can never reach that low because gold isn't easily obtainable. You have to move tons of dirt, pay someone to do back breaking work, and then refine the gold. All that can't be done at .00000001

And? All that means is that when its worth that much, people won't be going out of their way to get more.

It's unavoidable it has industrial uses. If you like tech and require medicine it's unavoidable. silver is antibacterial and the most conductive metal. Can't have a functioning computer with gold -- look at a motherboard, ram stick, and processor.

And? That changes nothing, especially if there's a limited supply. People will find more cost effective and less limited materials to use. Especially if its valuable and limited. Good setup now means nothing for the future or lasting future. Given how the world works, it could end within a few years. Industrial uses are very temporary. And really, your argument implodes in on itself. If anything is destined to be that valuable forever, then it flexibility in value also become very limited by the fact that you claim it will be decided by much, much more than the government. Largely making your argument that it can be changed in value to create flexibility in economic reactions by the government all but gone. So if your wrong, your argument is silly. If you're right, your argument is silly.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#107 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
It would've been a disaster if Bush's partial privatization plan actually passed once the market tanked. Social security wouldn't be secure if it was privatized.
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Laihendi

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#108 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Yusuke420"] It can't, if we're all going to try to live together, we should help each other be the best people possible. If that means I can't buy something, then so be it. Tell me lai do you donate to any charities?

Yusuke420

No, I do not. I am open to helping an individual in need who is important to me, but the individuals who are important to me do not need help. And the people being sacrificed against their will are certainly not being helped. The "best people possible" are not murderers and thieves.

So basically if you don't know them personally, f*ck them? Do you really have to wonder why your worldview will never gain any type of traction?

No, I don't have to wonder. Most people want everything to be given to them. Most people want to live without making the effort to support their own life. Most people want that responsibility to be taken over by someone else, and most people don't care whether that someone else actually consents. It is ironic that the loudest preachers of charity are those with absolutely no consideration for the desires of those they demand charity from. According to them, it's selfish and cruel to want to keep your money, but perfectly fine to demand the money of others.

The "f*ck them" attitude is held by those who demand charity. They have no consideration for anyone but themselves. They don't care if someone doesn't want to give them money. They don't care if others want to use their money to support their own lives and the people/things that they love. The people demanding charity simply want something, and they demand that someone else be forced to satisfy their desires, with or without that person's consent. It is the lowest form of selfishness - not the noble selfishness of a man living for his own sake among equals, but of an arrogant and spoiled child.

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Laihendi

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#109 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

All the gold mined in the history of the world would not cover one half of the current U.S. economy.

worlock77

I guess paper does though?

Evidently so.

Please explain how there is not enough gold to cover the US economy.
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Yusuke420

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#110 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

I disagree with that entirely, children don't WANT to be orphans, people that lose everything because the factory that Dad has worked at for thirty years of his life don't WANT to be on the street and hungary. Life has unforseen circumstances for many people and to ignore that fact in favor of accumlating and sitting on endless wealth is greed at it's finest. People don't want a handout, they want a HANDUP. I have known homeless PHD holders and rich idiots so it's not purely about having a try hard, can do attitude. Sometimes you just need some help and I hope one day your faced with a situation that your money or your influence can't fix and we shall see then if you are willing to do something that to you is an unthinkable sin, ASK FOR HELP!

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worlock77

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#111 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] I guess paper does though?Laihendi

Evidently so.

Please explain how there is not enough gold to cover the US economy.

There's not a lot of gold out there and what is out there is not valuable enough to cover tens of trillions of dollars. It's not a difficult concept.

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Fightingfan

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#112 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"][QUOTE="lx_theo"] And? All that means is that when its worth that much, people won't be going out of their way to get more.lx_theo
It's unavoidable it has industrial uses. If you like tech and require medicine it's unavoidable. silver is antibacterial and the most conductive metal. Can't have a functioning computer with gold -- look at a motherboard, ram stick, and processor.

And? That changes nothing, especially if there's a limited supply. People will find more cost effective and less limited materials to use. Especially if its valuable and limited. Good setup now means nothing for the future or lasting future. Given how the world works, it could end within a few years. Industrial uses are very temporary. And really, your argument implodes in on itself. If anything is destined to be that valuable forever, then it flexibility in value also become very limited by the fact that you claim it will be decided by much, much more than the government. Largely making your argument that it can be changed in value to create flexibility in economic reactions by the government all but gone. So if your wrong, your argument is silly. If you're right, your argument is silly.

The argument for the reason being it's superior to fiat? No it's not. Low rate insurance is always better than no insurance. Fiat doesn't have a chance at surviving 2000+ years, Gold does.

 

as indusrial uses went up as would the price -- to a point the average man could afford one. It's simply supply demand.

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#113 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] No, I do not. I am open to helping an individual in need who is important to me, but the individuals who are important to me do not need help. And the people being sacrificed against their will are certainly not being helped. The "best people possible" are not murderers and thieves.Laihendi

So basically if you don't know them personally, f*ck them? Do you really have to wonder why your worldview will never gain any type of traction?

No, I don't have to wonder. Most people want everything to be given to them. Most people want to live without making the effort to support their own life.

As proven by you being a moocher and living off inheritance

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#114 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
A gold standard would be disastrous. The main feature of the Eurozone is its quasi-gold standard and look how it's working for them.
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worlock77

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#115 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] It's unavoidable it has industrial uses. If you like tech and require medicine it's unavoidable. silver is antibacterial and the most conductive metal. Can't have a functioning computer with gold -- look at a motherboard, ram stick, and processor. Fightingfan

And? That changes nothing, especially if there's a limited supply. People will find more cost effective and less limited materials to use. Especially if its valuable and limited. Good setup now means nothing for the future or lasting future. Given how the world works, it could end within a few years. Industrial uses are very temporary. And really, your argument implodes in on itself. If anything is destined to be that valuable forever, then it flexibility in value also become very limited by the fact that you claim it will be decided by much, much more than the government. Largely making your argument that it can be changed in value to create flexibility in economic reactions by the government all but gone. So if your wrong, your argument is silly. If you're right, your argument is silly.

The argument for the reason being it's superior to fiat? No it's not. Low rate insurance is always better than no insurance. Fiat doesn't have a chance at surviving 2000+ years, Gold does.

So does fossilized sh*t, but we're not basing an economy off that.

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Laihendi

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#116 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

I disagree with that entirely, children don't WANT to be orphans, people that lose everything because the factory that Dad has worked at for thirty years of his life don't WANT to be on the street and hungary. Life has unforseen circumstances for many people and to ignore that fact in favor of accumlating and sitting on endless wealth is greed at it's finest. People don't want a handout, they want a HANDUP. I have known homeless PHD holders and rich idiots so it's not purely about having a try hard, can do attitude. Sometimes you just need some help and I hope one day your faced with a situation that your money or your influence can't fix and we shall see then if you are willing to do something that to you is an unthinkable sin, ASK FOR HELP!

Yusuke420
Demanding is not asking. The government does not ask when it collects taxes to fund welfare programs. The money is taken with the threat of a gun. If you refuse then they arrest you. If you resist arrest then they attack you. If you defend yourself then they shoot you. None of what you said is relevant to my point. If you do not respect a man's right to his money, then you have no consideration for him and you have no right to criticize him for not being concerned with "others" (not the others he is concerned with, but the others you are concerned with).
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Laihendi

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#117 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"] So basically if you don't know them personally, f*ck them? Do you really have to wonder why your worldview will never gain any type of traction?

Aljosa23

No, I don't have to wonder. Most people want everything to be given to them. Most people want to live without making the effort to support their own life.

As proven by you being a moocher and living off inheritance

I am not a moocher. I live by what is mine. I do not need to earn my money because it is already mine.
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Fightingfan

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#118 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Evidently so.

worlock77

Please explain how there is not enough gold to cover the US economy.

There's not a lot of gold out there and what is out there is not valuable enough to cover tens of trillions of dollars. It's not a difficult concept.

You're thinking in the form of a dollar. What's a dollar? The buying power of a dollar now it's the same as it was in the 90s. Sure there's a enough gold if the value of dollar equaled the same as a constitutions dollar -- only worth the paper it was printed on.

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Fightingfan

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#119 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]

[QUOTE="lx_theo"] And? That changes nothing, especially if there's a limited supply. People will find more cost effective and less limited materials to use. Especially if its valuable and limited. Good setup now means nothing for the future or lasting future. Given how the world works, it could end within a few years. Industrial uses are very temporary. And really, your argument implodes in on itself. If anything is destined to be that valuable forever, then it flexibility in value also become very limited by the fact that you claim it will be decided by much, much more than the government. Largely making your argument that it can be changed in value to create flexibility in economic reactions by the government all but gone. So if your wrong, your argument is silly. If you're right, your argument is silly. worlock77

The argument for the reason being it's superior to fiat? No it's not. Low rate insurance is always better than no insurance. Fiat doesn't have a chance at surviving 2000+ years, Gold does.

So does fossilized sh*t, but we're not basing an economy off that.

Intrinsic value doesn't matter. We could value our dollar on rice, if it's rare, and has industrial uses it serves the same purpose. Dinosaur **** if found to have properties that are unique would work :P

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#120 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] No, I don't have to wonder. Most people want everything to be given to them. Most people want to live without making the effort to support their own life. Laihendi

As proven by you being a moocher and living off inheritance

I am not a moocher. I live by what is mine. I do not need to earn my money because it is already mine.

lol

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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#121 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] No, I don't have to wonder. Most people want everything to be given to them. Most people want to live without making the effort to support their own life. Laihendi

As proven by you being a moocher and living off inheritance

I am not a moocher. I live by what is mine. I do not need to earn my money because it is already mine.

You're living off money given to you. You made no effort to support your own life. That sounds pretty clear cut bro, you said it yourself

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Fightingfan

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#122 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

A gold standard would be disastrous. The main feature of the Eurozone is its quasi-gold standard and look how it's working for them. -Sun_Tzu-

Switching to a gold standard would be disastrous, but overall it's superior to fiat. At this point in time or another we'll have to go back,

it's simply no one wants to go back because it'll make everyone pretty much homeless.

Fiat currency is like a parasite, once it's born you have to continue feeding it till it dies and collapses on itself.

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Yusuke420

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#123 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

[QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

I disagree with that entirely, children don't WANT to be orphans, people that lose everything because the factory that Dad has worked at for thirty years of his life don't WANT to be on the street and hungary. Life has unforseen circumstances for many people and to ignore that fact in favor of accumlating and sitting on endless wealth is greed at it's finest. People don't want a handout, they want a HANDUP. I have known homeless PHD holders and rich idiots so it's not purely about having a try hard, can do attitude. Sometimes you just need some help and I hope one day your faced with a situation that your money or your influence can't fix and we shall see then if you are willing to do something that to you is an unthinkable sin, ASK FOR HELP!

Laihendi

Demanding is not asking. The government does not ask when it collects taxes to fund welfare programs. The money is taken with the threat of a gun. If you refuse then they arrest you. If you resist arrest then they attack you. If you defend yourself then they shoot you. None of what you said is relevant to my point. If you do not respect a man's right to his money, then you have no consideration for him and you have no right to criticize him for not being concerned with "others" (not the others he is concerned with, but the others you are concerned with).

Tax aren't just collected to fund welfare programs, it is an aspect of the entire scope of the government, which is how this nation is governed. To say that you don't want to pay taxes is the same as saying you don't want any access to the benefits provided by for those said taxes. Also Lai have you considered that there are tax free organizations that you could back what would protect your precious money from said taxation? If you donated you charity it would also exempt that portion of your income from taxation as well. So there are plenty of avenues to use if you are trying to avoid paying taxes. That being said why is money the only thing that is important to you?

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#124 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
it's simply no one wants to go back because it'll make everyone pretty much homeless. Fightingfan
How then would it be superior to fiat currency?
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worlock77

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#125 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"] The argument for the reason being it's superior to fiat? No it's not. Low rate insurance is always better than no insurance. Fiat doesn't have a chance at surviving 2000+ years, Gold does.

Fightingfan

So does fossilized sh*t, but we're not basing an economy off that.

Intrinsic value doesn't matter. We could value our dollar on rice, if it's rare, and has industrial uses it serves the same purpose. Dinosaur **** if found to have properties that are unique would work :P

Exactly. Hell, I'd argue that coal has more intrinsic value than gold does.

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coolbeans90

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#126 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

lol, fightingfan

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worlock77

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#127 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] No, I don't have to wonder. Most people want everything to be given to them. Most people want to live without making the effort to support their own life. Laihendi

As proven by you being a moocher and living off inheritance

I am not a moocher. I live by what is mine. I do not need to earn my money because it is already mine.

It's not yours, it's your parent's. But meh, your childish idiocy grows tiresome.

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Abbeten

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#128 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts
[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] No, I don't have to wonder. Most people want everything to be given to them. Most people want to live without making the effort to support their own life. Laihendi

As proven by you being a moocher and living off inheritance

I am not a moocher. I live by what is mine. I do not need to earn my money because it is already mine.

making nothing for yourself and being given everything is like the definition of mooching
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Laihendi

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#129 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]As proven by you being a moocher and living off inheritanceAbbeten
I am not a moocher. I live by what is mine. I do not need to earn my money because it is already mine.

making nothing for yourself and being given everything is like the definition of mooching

I have never been nothing. I am a man, and a man's most profoundly moral actions are thinking and productive work. I live by both, and that is why I am writing a book.
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lx_theo

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#130 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts

[QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] It's unavoidable it has industrial uses. If you like tech and require medicine it's unavoidable. silver is antibacterial and the most conductive metal. Can't have a functioning computer with gold -- look at a motherboard, ram stick, and processor. Fightingfan

And? That changes nothing, especially if there's a limited supply. People will find more cost effective and less limited materials to use. Especially if its valuable and limited. Good setup now means nothing for the future or lasting future. Given how the world works, it could end within a few years. Industrial uses are very temporary. And really, your argument implodes in on itself. If anything is destined to be that valuable forever, then it flexibility in value also become very limited by the fact that you claim it will be decided by much, much more than the government. Largely making your argument that it can be changed in value to create flexibility in economic reactions by the government all but gone. So if your wrong, your argument is silly. If you're right, your argument is silly.

The argument for the reason being it's superior to fiat? No it's not. Low rate insurance is always better than no insurance. Fiat doesn't have a chance at surviving 2000+ years, Gold does.

 

as indusrial uses went up as would the price -- to a point the average man could afford one. It's simply supply demand.

Fiat has no chance? I'd say it has about the same chance as gold.
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lx_theo

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#131 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts

[QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] No, I don't have to wonder. Most people want everything to be given to them. Most people want to live without making the effort to support their own life. Fightingfan

As proven by you being a moocher and living off inheritance

I am not a moocher. I live by what is mine. I do not need to earn my money because it is already mine.

You have never once said anything that suggests that that is true.
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mattbbpl

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#132 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23365 Posts
[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] I am not a moocher. I live by what is mine. I do not need to earn my money because it is already mine.

making nothing for yourself and being given everything is like the definition of mooching

I have never been nothing. I am a man, and a man's most profoundly moral actions are thinking and productive work. I live by both, and that is why I am writing a book.

Protip: Not all thoughts are worthwhile, and many a book has been written that's worth less than the paper it's written on.
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Laihendi

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#133 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Yusuke420"]

I disagree with that entirely, children don't WANT to be orphans, people that lose everything because the factory that Dad has worked at for thirty years of his life don't WANT to be on the street and hungary. Life has unforseen circumstances for many people and to ignore that fact in favor of accumlating and sitting on endless wealth is greed at it's finest. People don't want a handout, they want a HANDUP. I have known homeless PHD holders and rich idiots so it's not purely about having a try hard, can do attitude. Sometimes you just need some help and I hope one day your faced with a situation that your money or your influence can't fix and we shall see then if you are willing to do something that to you is an unthinkable sin, ASK FOR HELP!

Yusuke420

Demanding is not asking. The government does not ask when it collects taxes to fund welfare programs. The money is taken with the threat of a gun. If you refuse then they arrest you. If you resist arrest then they attack you. If you defend yourself then they shoot you. None of what you said is relevant to my point. If you do not respect a man's right to his money, then you have no consideration for him and you have no right to criticize him for not being concerned with "others" (not the others he is concerned with, but the others you are concerned with).

Tax aren't just collected to fund welfare programs, it is an aspect of the entire scope of the government, which is how this nation is governed. To say that you don't want to pay taxes is the same as saying you don't want any access to the benefits provided by for those said taxes. Also Lai have you considered that there are tax free organizations that you could back what would protect your precious money from said taxation? If you donated you charity it would also exempt that portion of your income from taxation as well. So there are plenty of avenues to use if you are trying to avoid paying taxes. That being said why is money the only thing that is important to you?

Tax deductions for donations simply disguises the problem. I either give my money to a charity, or the government steals it. Either way I lose.

Why is money important to me? Why is it important to you? You are the one demanding that others give it up to fund your social causes.

So you think that money is the root of all evil? . . . Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which cant exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honoryour claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you consider evil?

Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motionsand youll learn that mans mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.

But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of mans capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is madebefore it can be looted or moochedmade by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he cant consume more than he has produced.

Francisco dAnconia

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worlock77

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#134 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="Abbeten"] making nothing for yourself and being given everything is like the definition of moochingmattbbpl
I have never been nothing. I am a man, and a man's most profoundly moral actions are thinking and productive work. I live by both, and that is why I am writing a book.

Protip: Not all thoughts are worthwhile, and many a book has been written that's worth less than the paper it's written on.

Fortunately his evidently won't be printed on paper.

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coolbeans90

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#135 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

c'mon guise

i'm sure that lai is a productive citizen in his spare time

prob holds down two full-time jobs

pays for all of his own sh!t from money he earned by the sweat of his brow

it wouldn't fit his randian faith otherwise

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lx_theo

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#136 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] I have never been nothing. I am a man, and a man's most profoundly moral actions are thinking and productive work. I live by both, and that is why I am writing a book.worlock77

Protip: Not all thoughts are worthwhile, and many a book has been written that's worth less than the paper it's written on.

Fortunately his evidently won't be printed on paper.

Maybe it'll be printed on his inheritance.
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Fightingfan

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#137 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"] it's simply no one wants to go back because it'll make everyone pretty much homeless. -Sun_Tzu-
How then would it be superior to fiat currency?

Fiat currency is always headed in the same direction -- it'll just be without warning. At least given a switch-back people could prepare.
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lx_theo

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#138 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] it's simply no one wants to go back because it'll make everyone pretty much homeless. Fightingfan
How then would it be superior to fiat currency?

Fiat currency is always headed in the same direction -- it'll just be without warning. At least given a switch-back people could prepare.

So basically you're paranoid and convinced that one method is doomed despite having almost no difference to the other.
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Fightingfan

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#139 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]

[QUOTE="lx_theo"] And? That changes nothing, especially if there's a limited supply. People will find more cost effective and less limited materials to use. Especially if its valuable and limited. Good setup now means nothing for the future or lasting future. Given how the world works, it could end within a few years. Industrial uses are very temporary. And really, your argument implodes in on itself. If anything is destined to be that valuable forever, then it flexibility in value also become very limited by the fact that you claim it will be decided by much, much more than the government. Largely making your argument that it can be changed in value to create flexibility in economic reactions by the government all but gone. So if your wrong, your argument is silly. If you're right, your argument is silly. lx_theo

The argument for the reason being it's superior to fiat? No it's not. Low rate insurance is always better than no insurance. Fiat doesn't have a chance at surviving 2000+ years, Gold does.

 

as indusrial uses went up as would the price -- to a point the average man could afford one. It's simply supply demand.

Fiat has no chance? I'd say it has about the same chance as gold.

Look at history it doesn't. What makes you think America can erase 1500+ years of history? Every fiat since Song dynasty(960-1277 AD)has failed.
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Fightingfan

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#140 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
[QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] How then would it be superior to fiat currency?

Fiat currency is always headed in the same direction -- it'll just be without warning. At least given a switch-back people could prepare.

So basically you're paranoid and convinced that one method is doomed despite having almost no difference to the other.

There's only one difference. Either your money is backed by a commodity or not. Backed currency is always superior -- I was stating "Switching back" would screw everyone, and continuing fiat would screw everyone. Regardless we're headed towards a 6 foot hole, but at least with returning back to a commodity backed currency you can set the date and prepare.
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Fightingfan

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#141 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

So does fossilized sh*t, but we're not basing an economy off that.

worlock77

Intrinsic value doesn't matter. We could value our dollar on rice, if it's rare, and has industrial uses it serves the same purpose. Dinosaur **** if found to have properties that are unique would work :P

Exactly. Hell, I'd argue that coal has more intrinsic value than gold does.

That was missing a few words. I meant to say "It doesn't matter where it comes from".
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lx_theo

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#142 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"][QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"] Fiat currency is always headed in the same direction -- it'll just be without warning. At least given a switch-back people could prepare.

So basically you're paranoid and convinced that one method is doomed despite having almost no difference to the other.

There's only one difference. Either your money is backed by a commodity or not. Backed currency is always superior -- I was stating "Switching back" would screw everyone, and continuing fiat would screw everyone. Regardless we're headed towards a 6 foot hole, but at least with returning back to a commodity backed currency you can set the date and prepare.

*Facepalm* No, its the ways the government treats the money. Not if its backed or not. The only case of being back is useful or not is if the economy gets so bad it falls apart. That with government and all. So basically, it stops countries from being able to get rid of governments that run their economy into the ground as easily. That's what you want?
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coolbeans90

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#143 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

iirc it is difficult to do monetary policy thingys with resource-backed currencies, so, fightingfan, no.

ur drunk

go home

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lx_theo

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#144 lx_theo
Member since 2010 • 6211 Posts

iirc it is difficult to do monetary policy thingys with resource-backed currencies, so, fightingfan, no.

ur drunk

go home

coolbeans90
He insists otherwise. Though he has yet to prove that there is a valuable way to value and devalue materials by the government.
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Abbeten

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#145 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts

iirc it is difficult to do monetary policy thingys with resource-backed currencies, so, fightingfan, no.

ur drunk

go home

coolbeans90
difficult? i think it's more or less impossible
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Yusuke420

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#146 Yusuke420
Member since 2012 • 2770 Posts

So basically having some undeterminable amount of wealth that you could never spend on just yourself and your family no matter how hard you tried is more important to you then feeding orphans and keeping the elderly off the streets? I want to understand you man, but it seems so cold hearted. 

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#147 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
[QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"][QUOTE="lx_theo"] So basically you're paranoid and convinced that one method is doomed despite having almost no difference to the other.

There's only one difference. Either your money is backed by a commodity or not. Backed currency is always superior -- I was stating "Switching back" would screw everyone, and continuing fiat would screw everyone. Regardless we're headed towards a 6 foot hole, but at least with returning back to a commodity backed currency you can set the date and prepare.

*Facepalm* No, its the ways the government treats the money. Not if its backed or not. The only case of being back is useful or not is if the economy gets so bad it falls apart. That with government and all. So basically, it stops countries from being able to get rid of governments that run their economy into the ground as easily. That's what you want?

It's not necessarily how the government treats the money, but how the people of that country treat the money. Canadian money with worth more than American, but try buying something with Canadian dollars. We used gold because it provided scarcity which adds value to our currency. You couldn't print money unless you had the assets to back it up. I would want an asset backed currency -- that way the currency can never be worth less than what it's backed with. Fiat offers no form of backing, or insurance with a central bank.
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#148 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

So basically having some undeterminable amount of wealth that you could never spend on just yourself and your family no matter how hard you tried is more important to you then feeding orphans and keeping the elderly off the streets? I want to understand you man, but it seems so cold hearted. 

Yusuke420
Who are you speaking too.
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#149 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

iirc it is difficult to do monetary policy thingys with resource-backed currencies, so, fightingfan, no.

ur drunk

go home

Abbeten
difficult? i think it's more or less impossible

America did fine prior to the federal reserve act in regards to managing money. At least if you compare today to history.
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#150 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts
[QUOTE="Abbeten"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

iirc it is difficult to do monetary policy thingys with resource-backed currencies, so, fightingfan, no.

ur drunk

go home

Fightingfan
difficult? i think it's more or less impossible

America did fine prior to the federal reserve act in regards to managing money. At least if you compare today to history.

not really, actually