This
if they are going to treat them old-fashioned style, maybe the girls should be in the lunch room instead.needled24-7and this
in return the girls better make those boys some damn sammiches:x
Ingenemployee
This topic is locked from further discussion.
WTF happened to equality and girls wanting to be treated as equals? Why not have a school where girls greet me and pull out my chair for me?? This is terrible and teaches inequality. I'm from NY to Brooklyn to be exact and think this is a horrible idea. If anything I'd have all the class mates greet each other respectfully every mourning. That makes more sense then this nonsense.
[QUOTE="moonlightcharm6"]i love this "boys" these days don't know how to give respect.shinian
This is why The Godfather trilogy should be a mandatory lecture in the first grade. Someone has to teach those kids about respect.
Ive never seen this but only heard about it. Are the movies really that good?women are always complaining about women's rights, that they should be treated equal to men
at the same time, when it comes to etiquette, they should be treated specially, respected, chairs pulled out, all that kind of stuff
i think it's just hypocritical that this happens and personally, i'm more for equality.
Read the article, it's not about the general rules, it's about the Latin classes.
If those guys were supposed to do this all the time then it'd be weird, but when it's only during the Latin classes then why not? I think it adds to the lessons.I teach old-fashioned subjects," Ivanyi told AOL News, "so I don't think I'm doing anyone a disservice by promoting old-fashioned traditions."
[QUOTE="LegitGamer3212"]This should be something people do on their own. A school board should have to tell you.http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/arizona-teacher-adds-etiquette-to-lessons/19355240?icid=main|htmlws-main-w|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fnation%2Farticle%2Farizona-teacher-adds-etiquette-to-lessons%2F19355240
The boys at this school must stand when a girl enters the room, pull the chair out for girls when girls sit, treat girls with respect, give a friendly smile to them and treat them like royalty. In my opinion....i think this is a great method this teacher came up with, if i was a teacher i'd do the same if i could. I live in NYC queens and the way boys/men treat girls here are rough and it's a shame. What do you think about the teachers methods and should all public schools go about this?
KittenNipples
I agree with this. Although, I don't think standing when they enter is really that great. They should be respected as should everyone else. In todays day and age due to media etc.. Women just aren't treated or respected properly, they also don't respect themselves. People view them as objects of pleasure and nothing more, Girlfriends now equal trophies, cheating is accepted as normal, I just don't get societies ways of thinking.
[spoiler] This does not apply to everyone obviously, just my opinion on the matter.... [/spoiler]
women are always complaining about women's rights, that they should be treated equal to men
at the same time, when it comes to etiquette, they should be treated specially, respected, chairs pulled out, all that kind of stuff
i think it's just hypocritical that this happens and personally, i'm more for equality.
rakan959
Generalization at its finest:P Not all women are like that.
[QUOTE="rakan959"]
women are always complaining about women's rights, that they should be treated equal to men
at the same time, when it comes to etiquette, they should be treated specially, respected, chairs pulled out, all that kind of stuff
i think it's just hypocritical that this happens and personally, i'm more for equality.
shinian
Generalization at its finest:P Not all women are like that.
not talking about all women, it's just that you see women everywhere (again, not all women) talking about equality, job oppertunities, and things like that, but then you have them also demanding respect
i say if they want to be equal, i'll treat them like another male: leave them alone and let them do everything on their own
if you're equal, you shouldn't need someone to pull out your chair for you, you should be able to do it yourself, after all you're equal aren't you?
it's a best of both worlds thing and i really dislike it
Read the article, it's not about the general rules, it's about the Latin classes.That's a good point. But it seems like instead of learning how to respect people the guys will only end up learning how to follow directions.I teach old-fashioned subjects," Ivanyi told AOL News, "so I don't think I'm doing anyone a disservice by promoting old-fashioned traditions."
If those guys were supposed to do this all the time then it'd be weird, but when it's only during the Latin classes then why not? I think it adds to the lessons.Ptosio
Oh yeah btw in your sig I think it should say "feel" free to correct me, not "fell" free to correct me.
I understand what you're saying. But realize that the ghetto, to use your example, is a small part of society. It might be the norm for people living in one, but the lifestyle of the ghetto often conflicts with the rest of society. The ghetto is not an isolated environment. When people break the law they get arrested (ideally). So while in the microcosm that is the ghetto, illegal activity is not frowned upon, society as a whole has set up boundaries and restrictions on undesirable behavior. In essence, what I am trying to say is that certain behaviors and attitudes are rewarded. The family and society are two of the most powerful forces set in place to determine desirable behavior. There may be times where what you are taught as being proper at home may conflict with what the rest of society deems proper, but in the end you decide what would be more beneficial to you or you conjure up a compromise.
entropyecho
The ghetto is just an example, not saying it is widespread enough to be a problem but the point is if we have enough people subscribe to a certain mentality, what started out as a minority opinion will eventually become majority, thus a new culture is born.
Back to teaching/learning etiquette, the reason I am for it is that it is a lost art. Most parents don't even know what it is themselves, therefore they can't even teach it to the kids. Am not pushing for mandatory education on it, but having it being offer as a elective course could at least help out those who opted to learn about it in a traditional setting, and not having to resort to looking it up in a bookstore or library.
Ideally, classes on different types of etiquette should be offer and not just on how to treat the ladies. I think courtesy should be extend to people of both genders, all nationalities and age group. Ifa manonly treat ladies with proper etiquette butdeal withhis fellow men with disrespect, then this man not only run the risk of being label as a sexist, he is also hypocritical and chauvinistic,and his education on proper etiquette is nothing but an act.
I don't think it should be necessary, it's just promoting chivalry.[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="LegitGamer3212"]
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/arizona-teacher-adds-etiquette-to-lessons/19355240?icid=main|htmlws-main-w|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fnation%2Farticle%2Farizona-teacher-adds-etiquette-to-lessons%2F19355240
The boys at this school must stand when a girl enters the room, pull the chair out for girls when girls sit, treat girls with respect, give a friendly smile to them and treat them like royalty. In my opinion....i think this is a great method this teacher came up with, if i was a teacher i'd do the same if i could. I live in NYC queens and the way boys/men treat girls here are rough and it's a shame. What do you think about the teachers methods and should all public schools go about this?
Ravirr
Whats wrong with chivalry?
Chivalry promotes the wrong aspects of etiquette. It's stepping back into the ye olde patriarchal mindset of how women should be treated. I mean, if they're up for going 80 years back in terms of how each sex treats each other, it winds up out of step with how society is today. Teach them proper etiquette, but this type of chivalry can be patronizing. I mean, what next, mandatory cooking and sewing classes for girls?As is, it's incredibly unbalanced, and etiquette must be spread out to affect the individual's attitude towards both guys and girls, and to anyone in general.
When I was a kid my mother would spank me if I failed to do any of the above. At first I thought she was being way to harsh, I mean a 5 years old getting spanked because I picked up my fork before everyone was seated? Now that I'm older, I thank her every day. A while ago I was in a bus and a pregnant woman walks in and these stupid kids sitting down ( i was standing) just watch as this 7month+ pregnant woman struggles to stay balanced. So I go over to them and say "Hey guys, stand up and let the lady sit. Can't you see she's pregnant" and they retorted in some jackass manner using expletives. Luckily, the bus driver heard what was going and told them to either get up, or get out. The whole time I was thinking to myself "Don't these kids have parents?". When I was young my mother's mantra was "Always be a gentleman first, and everything else second". This school could really help some of the youth of today.
Edit: To all you nit pickers, no I dont know for a fact she was 7 months pregnant, i just assumed due to her size and the fact that she wasnt naturally fat.
That would feel like patronizing to me. The guys forced to treat me like royalty in the class but will still treat me like **** outside of that class. They need to be taught how to treat women with respect and treat them equally - not like they're frail royals. If the teacher is implementing this - it should work both ways. Let the girls curtsy and all that stuff to the guys.SajedeneIt really depends on why people do it. I do it as a respect and discipline type thing. It's got nothing to do with whether or not I think women are frail royals or what not; It's about me being respectful and having good manners. I'm guessing the school figured that teaching students to be proper gentlemen is probably a good first step into teaching them manners and discipline. It's sort of like how some people take martial arts not for the physical aspect, but for the discipline it takes to master.
I just find it very difficult to imagine how such an elective c1ass could be implemented or taken seriously by students. If you live in a very culturally diverse region, you could get conflicting forms of etiquette. For example, eye contact may be deemed polite in certain cultures while in others it could be considered rude. Hand motions while talking is another example - some people are very expressive with their hands or through their facial gestures during a conversation, while others see it as improper. Say you try to teach as many forms of etiquette as you can in your class - do you think you would be doing justice to all cultures? There will probably be complaints of favoritism or bias. I can even see some people claiming that such a program indoctrinates kids or young adults (in the extreme case), which will not sit well with a lot of people.Back to teaching/learning etiquette, the reason I am for it is that it is a lost art. Most parents don't even know what it is themselves, therefore they can't even teach it to the kids. Am not pushing for mandatory education on it, but having it being offer as a elective course could at least help out those who opted to learn about it in a traditional setting, and not having to resort to looking it up in a bookstore or library.
Ideally, classes on different types of etiquette should be offer and not just on how to treat the ladies. I think courtesy should be extend to people of both genders, all nationalities and age group. Ifa manonly treat ladies with proper etiquette butdeal withhis fellow men with disrespect, then this man not only run the risk of being label as a sexist, he is also hypocritical and chauvinistic,and his education on proper etiquette is nothing but an act.
ariz3260
While your suggestion has good intentions I don't think you could pull it off in a c1assroom. I think we could both agree that people are the partially the product of their environment, which includes your home-life and the society you live in. I think in the vast majority of cases, people are in a better position to learn about what is valued from their family or city/region/country. Come to think of it, now more than ever, people are connected (via the internet for example) and have greater access to information from various sources to learn about these things on their own to prevent being stuck with a certain mindset.
Life (understood through individual experience) is the best teacher. I know from first hand experience that children know their parents' faults and strengths from a very young age. Bad habits, say in the form of poor manners, are not perpetuated from generation to generation as easily. Couple that with the fact that different types of people are not as isolated as they once were in the past and you have a natural system in place to modify behavior.
I am not sure if any of this makes sense or is cogent - I am a bit tired :P
Being forced to treat someone with respect will never make them respectful.WelkabonzBut surely you would agree that everyone must have a certain "baseline" respect for their fellow (wo)man. Respect has to be earned too, no doubt.
But surely you would agree that everyone must have a certain "baseline" respect for their fellow (wo)man. Respect has to be earned too, no doubt. Yes. But you can't force someone to learn that.[QUOTE="Welkabonz"]Being forced to treat someone with respect will never make them respectful.entropyecho
[QUOTE="entropyecho"]But surely you would agree that everyone must have a certain "baseline" respect for their fellow (wo)man. Respect has to be earned too, no doubt. Yes. But you can't force someone to learn that.Negative reinforcement can do wonders ;)[QUOTE="Welkabonz"]Being forced to treat someone with respect will never make them respectful.Welkabonz
I just find it very difficult to imagine how such an elective c1ass could be implemented or taken seriously by students. If you live in a very culturally diverse region, you could get conflicting forms of etiquette. For example, eye contact may be deemed polite in certain cultures while in others it could be considered rude. Hand motions while talking is another example - some people are very expressive with their hands or through their facial gestures during a conversation, while others see it as improper. Say you try to teach as many forms of etiquette as you can in your class - do you think you would be doing justice to all cultures? There will probably be complaints of favoritism or bias.(1)I can even see some people claiming that such a program indoctrinates kids or young adults (in the extreme case), which will not sit well with a lot of people. (2)
While your suggestion has good intentions I don't think you could pull it off in a c1assroom. I think we could both agree that people are the partially the product of their environment, which includes your home-life and the society you live in. I think in the vast majority of cases, people are in a better position to learn about what is valued from their family or city/region/country. (3)Come to think of it, now more than ever, people are connected (via the internet for example) and have greater access to information from various sources to learn about these things on their own to prevent being stuck with a certain mindset. (4)
Life (understood through individual experience) is the best teacher. I know from first han d experience that children know their parents' faults and strengths from a very young age. Bad habits, say in the form of poor manners, are not perpetuated from generation to generation as easily. Couple that with the fact that different types of people are not as isolated as they once were in the past and you have a natural system in place to modify behavior. (5)
I am not sure if any of this makes sense or is cogent - I am a bit tired :P
entropyecho
It's all good, you brought up many valid points :)
1. You can only teach so much in any given class on any given topic. Personally I've never been in a class where the teacher/lecturer/professor cover all of the class materials. One way to circumvent it is to offer different classes for different culture/geographical locations/religion
2. Teaching science at school doesn't sit well with a lot of religious folks either. That doesn't mean we shouldn't teach science because some folks find it offensive
3. Yes that much I agree, and having a proper education could further ones ability to analyze and think critically. Not to say people who didn't go to school couldn't have done so, but schooling should further cultivate ones ability in that regard, plus learning new things that one's immediate family or place of residence isn't able to offer otherwise
4. True. Interweb has given us much and it becomes much easier to learn about different things all thanks to it. Many schools has even offer online courses for those who can't attend in person due to various reasons. However, oneissue Ihave with online learning(at least for now) is that it doesn't really offer you the real world interaction one would gain otherwise in person. Knowledge wise, online learning really isn't lacking much vs in person learning imo. But the interaction between students and instructor is something online learning just couldn't be replace, at least not yet
5. I pretty much agree with everything you said in this last paragraph, but am not sure how it is relevant with what we are discussing here :P. I would say that some people are more observant and keen to pick up on implicit messages than others. Some people are just clueless about it. Again, I agree that teh interweb make knowledge-base learning easier, but I'm not entirely sure if the same can be said of learning socially acceptablebehavior. If anything, just by browsing through some sites and look at the comments people left there people actually treat it as a place to "become what they want to be" instead of "become better than what they are"... two very different mindset. Instead of treating it a place to learn, I'm sensing people are treating it place to have fun and relieve stress, which is what I am doing here :P
Of course, there's no study to support anything I've said here, and the hope of it being verified through empirical study is fairly slim at the moment, but learning etiquette is something I see people really need to exert much effort on... sometimes its difficult to do what's right in one's opinion while no one agrees with him/her, and I definitely think that being well manner and having proper etiquette qualified as such
[QUOTE="Welkabonz"][QUOTE="entropyecho"]But surely you would agree that everyone must have a certain "baseline" respect for their fellow (wo)man. Respect has to be earned too, no doubt.
Yes. But you can't force someone to learn that.Negative reinforcement can do wonders ;) You can't force somebody to think and learn. It's a completely voluntary action.this is completely and totally retarded. im tired of all this pro female propaganda. dkdk999
Yeah, but don't blame women for this one. A man came up with this idea.
I'm sure its mostly superficial, but still nice I suppose. I can't decide whether that fact that it encouraged is a good idea or a bad one. Naturally, it should be encouraged, but most are probably standing when a girl enters to fit in with the others who stand rather than out of their own accord. I don't know, kind of defeats the purpose. Its not like these guys' outlook out girls have changed either, they're still looking to get some no doubt. I suppose this is a more modest method of getting there though. :P
EDIT: I hate GLITCHSPOT, deleting my spaces! :x
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