Putin: "U.S. orchestrated Georgian war"

Seriously, people.

Putin's head. On this guy. Now. Please.

Theokhoth

So where did georgian army got those US vehicles?

So where did georgian army got those US vehicles?

Flotsam

It was no revelation that they have some US equipment.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Seriously, people.

Putin's head. On this guy. Now. Please.

Flotsam

So where did georgian army got those US vehicles?

Now that I think about it more openly, its definately a possibility. The CIA can do all kinds of stuff. However, I don't think its that likely that the US orchestrated this. They definately supplied Georgia military weapons, although they deny it but I don't think they wanted this. If they did, the tables certainly turned on them as Russia tore apart Georgia and snatched 2 of their regions away.

[QUOTE="Flotsam"]

So where did georgian army got those US vehicles?

duxup

It was no revelation that they have some US equipment.

Thats what was putin was saying, US sends them equepment.

Any country that supported Georgia with weapons are accused by Russia. Yes Georgia trusted on those countries(being mostly USA/Israel/Turkey)

Ameriacn influence on Gerogia after the red revolution is undeniable. Georgia probably has a lot of influence when making decisions like this. No one can know whats really is in the background but can make these observations.

The stupidest thing would be to completely removing USA from this scenerio. If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia. That would be funnier than calling everything a conspiracy.

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="Flotsam"]

So where did georgian army got those US vehicles?

Flotsam

It was no revelation that they have some US equipment.

Thats what was putin was saying, US sends them equepment.

Everyone knows they have some US equipment, same with some other NATO nations. That doesn't prove there was some proxy war going on.

The Iraqi government had french anti shipping missiles during the first gulf war, that didn't mean the French were supporting the Iraqis against the coalition.

If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.sentencedogu

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.Oleg_Huzwog

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

Yeah, that was Georgian territory the Russians were sitting on, the Georgians never entered Russia.

News people, read it!

I wouldn't put the Bush administration past doing something stupid, but I doubt the other NATO allies would have agreed to such a move and would sit quietly by if the US did something.duxup

I don't think it's true but it could be, who knows? I think that they're just mad after they asked other Asian countries to recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia and the other countries refused. I think all this started after what happened in Kosovo. The US and the majority of EU countries recognized Kosovo's independence and now Russia thinks it has the right to do the same about Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

I don't know though how this would help McCain or Obama in their campaign.

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.Oleg_Huzwog

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

well they still got into a conflict Russia for land...either for keeping it or taking it totally.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.duxup

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

Yeah, that was Georgian territory the Russians were sitting on, the Georgians never entered Russia.

News people, read it!

Yes, but it was declared an independant government since 1992. It was also under Russian protection and over 90% of the people had Russian citizenship. An attack on South Ossetia is pretty much an attack on Russia. Not to mention the 10 Russian peacekeepers that were killed. They are definately going to be independant now however, Russia will never allow Georgia to retake them.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.sentencedogu

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

well they still got into a conflict Russia for land...either for keeping it or taking it totally.

There's a big BIG difference between keeping your own land and taking your neighbor's.

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.argetlam00

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

Yeah, that was Georgian territory the Russians were sitting on, the Georgians never entered Russia.

News people, read it!

Yes, but it was declared an independant government since 1992. It was also under Russian protection and over 90% of the people had Russian citizenship. An attack on South Ossetia is pretty much an attack on Russia. Not to mention the 10 Russian peacekeepers that were killed. They are definately going to be independant now however, Russia will never allow Georgia to retake them.

I think a Georgan attack was beyond stupid.

However, the land in question was Georgian outright. The citizens given passports doesn't mean it becomes Russian territory.

Yes, but it was declared an independant government since 1992.argetlam00

No it wasn't. The "vote" was conducted solely by ethnic Ossetians. All other races and ethnicities were forbidden from taking part in the vote. It was for that reason that exactly zero foreign governments recognized their "independence". Not even Russia ever acknowledged the existence of an independent S. Ossetia.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.duxup

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

Yeah, that was Georgian territory the Russians were sitting on, the Georgians never entered Russia.

News people, read it!

They killed bunch of russian people, thats enough for them.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]Yes, but it was declared an independant government since 1992.Oleg_Huzwog

No it wasn't. The "vote" was conducted solely by ethnic Ossetians. All other races and ethnicities were forbidden from taking part in the vote. It was for that reason that exactly zero foreign governments recognized their "independence". Not even Russia ever acknowledged the existence of an independent S. Ossetia.

Research it...About 70% of South Ossetia is ethnic South Ossetian. Even if every Georgian and other ethinicity voted "no" the vote would still have passed...

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.Flotsam

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

Yeah, that was Georgian territory the Russians were sitting on, the Georgians never entered Russia.

News people, read it!

They killed bunch of russian people, thats enough for them.

The Georgians could have killed every Russian solider there, and frankly the Russian government wouldn't have given a squat if nobody ever said a word about it. The Russian military is treated like trash by its own government.

The issue is the Russian government is quite insecure about the nations it used to control falling in line with NATO. They're alone and frankly a bit insecure (can't blame them). There is no way they could allow themselves to be seen as pushed out of any territory (even when it isn't their territory) by a small nation. THAT is why they responded as they did. That is also why Georgia was foolish to act no matter how justified.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"]Yes, but it was declared an independant government since 1992.Oleg_Huzwog

No it wasn't. The "vote" was conducted solely by ethnic Ossetians. All other races and ethnicities were forbidden from taking part in the vote. It was for that reason that exactly zero foreign governments recognized their "independence". Not even Russia ever acknowledged the existence of an independent S. Ossetia.

[QUOTE="Flotsam"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.duxup

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

Yeah, that was Georgian territory the Russians were sitting on, the Georgians never entered Russia.

News people, read it!

They killed bunch of russian people, thats enough for them.

The Georgians could have killed every Russian solider there, and frankly the Russian government wouldn't have given a squat if nobody ever said a word about it. The Russian military is treated like trash by its own government.

The issue is the Russian government is quite insecure about the nations it used to control falling in line with NATO. They're alone and frankly a bit insecure (can't blame them). There is no way they could allow themselves to be seen as pushed out of any territory (even when it isn't their territory) by a small nation. THAT is why they responded as they did. That is also why Georgia was foolish to act no matter how justified.

I don't see in any way, shape or form how Georgia was justified in attacking South Ossetia..

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="Flotsam"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.argetlam00

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

Yeah, that was Georgian territory the Russians were sitting on, the Georgians never entered Russia.

News people, read it!

They killed bunch of russian people, thats enough for them.

The Georgians could have killed every Russian solider there, and frankly the Russian government wouldn't have given a squat if nobody ever said a word about it. The Russian military is treated like trash by its own government.

The issue is the Russian government is quite insecure about the nations it used to control falling in line with NATO. They're alone and frankly a bit insecure (can't blame them). There is no way they could allow themselves to be seen as pushed out of any territory (even when it isn't their territory) by a small nation. THAT is why they responded as they did. That is also why Georgia was foolish to act no matter how justified.

I don't see in any way, shape or form that Georgia was justified in attacking South Ossetia..

It is their territory, they wanted it back under their control. Last I heard they also weren't fond of attacks coming from the separatists coming out of South Ossetia.

Stupid move none the less.

So... what? Bush manipulated the Russians into invading?Oleg_Huzwog

No. What Putin seems to be alleging is that Bush used his puppet, Saakashvili, to manipulate the Georgians into invading South Ossetia.

Do you seriously believe that the fighting began with an unprovoked Russian invasion of Georgia? Come on, man! Even US news organizations concede that it was Georgia's invasion of South Ossetia that sparked the conflict.

Remember Putin is not Bush. Putin is ex-KGB, I bet he still has some good contacts and knows more than we do, after all who but the KGB would know American secrets best.muscleserge

How would you know who knows what the best? It's good to speculate once and awhile, but if you want to be honest, all this stuff is pretty much way beyond the common man.

[QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="Flotsam"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="sentencedogu"]If you do so you believe Georgia by herself seriıously wanted to take land from Russia.duxup

...take land from Russia? What? South Ossetia was Georgian territory, not Russian.

Yeah, that was Georgian territory the Russians were sitting on, the Georgians never entered Russia.

News people, read it!

They killed bunch of russian people, thats enough for them.

The Georgians could have killed every Russian solider there, and frankly the Russian government wouldn't have given a squat if nobody ever said a word about it. The Russian military is treated like trash by its own government.

The issue is the Russian government is quite insecure about the nations it used to control falling in line with NATO. They're alone and frankly a bit insecure (can't blame them). There is no way they could allow themselves to be seen as pushed out of any territory (even when it isn't their territory) by a small nation. THAT is why they responded as they did. That is also why Georgia was foolish to act no matter how justified.

I don't see in any way, shape or form that Georgia was justified in attacking South Ossetia..

It is their territory, they wanted it back under their control. Last I heard they also weren't fond of attacks coming from the separatists coming out of South Ossetia.

Stupid move none the less.

There is absolutely no evidence of seperatists attacking Georgia other than the Georgia's word. The seperatists deny provoking the conflict. If they wanted their territory back udner their control, I would think they would be a bit more civilized than shelling their own people with alts and killing Russian peacekeepers, who are their former allies. I don't think any South Ossetian would ever accept Georgia as their government, even if a gun was pointed at their head after what happened to them.

[QUOTE="muscleserge"]Remember Putin is not Bush. Putin is ex-KGB, I bet he still has some good contacts and knows more than we do, after all who but the KGB would know American secrets best.jetpower3

How would you know who knows what the best? It's good to speculate once and awhile, but if you want to be honest, all this stuff is pretty much way beyond the common man.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]So... what? Bush manipulated the Russians into invading?Stesilaus

No. What Putin seems to be alleging is that Bush used his puppet, Saakashvili, to manipulate the Georgians into invading South Ossetia.

Do you seriously believe that the fighting began with an unprovoked Russian invasion of Georgia? Come on, man! Even US news organizations concede that it was Georgia's invasion of South Ossetia that sparked the conflict.

Uh... mind telling me what exactly it was that I said that led you to believe I was under such an impression? Of course I don't believe the Russians just appeared out of the blue. What a bizarre thing for you to say.

[QUOTE="duxup"]

It is their territory, they wanted it back under their control. Last I heard they also weren't fond of attacks coming from the separatists coming out of South Ossetia.

Stupid move none the less.

argetlam00

There is absolutely no evidence of seperatists attacking Georgia other than the Georgia's word. The seperatists deny provoking the conflict. If they wanted their territory back udner their control, I would think they would be a bit more civilized than shelling their own citizens with alts and killing Russian peacekeepers, who are their former allies. I don't think any South Ossetian would ever accept Georgia as their government, even if a gun was pointed at their head after what happened to them.

Well as long as the separatists deny attacking them. I guess that must be true.

It is Georgian territory, as far as I'm concerned that means they get to control it when they wish. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't at this point. I also think it was dumb of them to act as they did, but they've got a right to be stupid there. I guess if the locals are the reason that Gerogia shouldn't be allowed to control that area then Russia would be happy to turn Chechnya free... the locals there don't like the Russians much.

The Russians don't care about the Ossetians, they're upset about Georgia possibly joining NATO plain and simple.

lol.. Putin..

[QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="duxup"]

It is their territory, they wanted it back under their control. Last I heard they also weren't fond of attacks coming from the separatists coming out of South Ossetia.

Stupid move none the less.

duxup

There is absolutely no evidence of seperatists attacking Georgia other than the Georgia's word. The seperatists deny provoking the conflict. If they wanted their territory back udner their control, I would think they would be a bit more civilized than shelling their own citizens with alts and killing Russian peacekeepers, who are their former allies. I don't think any South Ossetian would ever accept Georgia as their government, even if a gun was pointed at their head after what happened to them.

Well as long as the separatists deny attacking them. I guess that must be true.

It is Georgian territory, as far as I'm concerned that means they get to control it when they wish. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't at this point. I also think it was dumb of them to act as they did, but they've got a right to be stupid there. I guess if the locals are the reason that Gerogia shouldn't be allowed to control that area then Russia would be happy to turn Chechnya free... the locals there don't like the Russians much.

The Russians don't care about the Ossetians, they're upset about Georgia possibly joining NATO plain and simple.

Actually, if you look at it more openly, this conflict HELPS Georgia join NATO. Before, Georgia had terriotorial problems, such as South Ossetia. They had to fix this or would almost certainly be denied entry into NATO. If they win, they force South Ossetia and Abkhazia under their rule and get in NATO. If they lose, those regions become independant or part of Russia, they get into NATO anyway. I don't know much about the Chechnyan wars so I can't comment on those.

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="argetlam00"][QUOTE="duxup"]

It is their territory, they wanted it back under their control. Last I heard they also weren't fond of attacks coming from the separatists coming out of South Ossetia.

Stupid move none the less.

argetlam00

There is absolutely no evidence of seperatists attacking Georgia other than the Georgia's word. The seperatists deny provoking the conflict. If they wanted their territory back udner their control, I would think they would be a bit more civilized than shelling their own citizens with alts and killing Russian peacekeepers, who are their former allies. I don't think any South Ossetian would ever accept Georgia as their government, even if a gun was pointed at their head after what happened to them.

Well as long as the separatists deny attacking them. I guess that must be true.

It is Georgian territory, as far as I'm concerned that means they get to control it when they wish. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't at this point. I also think it was dumb of them to act as they did, but they've got a right to be stupid there. I guess if the locals are the reason that Gerogia shouldn't be allowed to control that area then Russia would be happy to turn Chechnya free... the locals there don't like the Russians much.

The Russians don't care about the Ossetians, they're upset about Georgia possibly joining NATO plain and simple.

Actually, if you look at it more openly, this conflict HELPS Georgia join NATO. Before, Georgia had terriotorial problems, such as South Ossetia. They had to fix this or would almost certainly be denied entry into NATO. If they win, they force South Ossetia and Abkhazia under their rule and get in NATO. If they lose, those regions become independant or part of Russia, they get into NATO anyway. I don't know much about the Chechnyan wars so I can't comment on those.

I think just the opposite for Georgia joining NATO. This really makes it less likely. Germany and other NATO members wanted to slow NATO membership for Georgia because of the territorial concerns. Hard to imagine the hard-line NATO members will accept Russian occupation of that land, and the more concerned NATO members would want to bring Georgia into the group with more conflict brewing.

It is a weird choice for Russia to take the old fashioned approach. I think they were surprised by Georgia. Really they're not going to win any friends in the neighboring countries... and that will ONLY help western friendly politicians in their neighboring nations. At the same time they do in the short term get what they want where NATO is sort of stopped in its tracks.

My guess some deal will be brokered, but it will be over the VERY long term.

is anybody scared?

im starting to feel like were going back to the cold war....:?

I win.

I win.

smarb001

LoL

I win.

smarb001

America openly funded and supported the Taliban during the Cold War... why wouldn't they fund and support Georgia now?

People like you who mock "conspiracies" apparently neglect history.

[QUOTE="smarb001"]

I win.

TheLastPrincess

America openly funded and supported the Taliban during the Cold War... why wouldn't they fund and support Georgia now?

People like you who mock "conspiracies" apparently neglect history.

I'm sorry I was just giving the people what they wanted. :P

you know the whole idea of conspiracies lose relavence when every freaking thing is a conspiracy......In a moment I've got to hit the john.....I think it might have been a conspiracy between the beer I had and a beef burrito......Omni-Slash

Of course it is! As poo and pee, they will be reborn and able to conquer your ass from the inside :P.

From what I've seen it actually looks like Russia orchestrated it.meetroid8

Pretty much. *hands you flame shield for the pro-Russians on here*

From what I've seen it actually looks like Russia orchestrated it.meetroid8

Russia told the Georgians to attack S. Osseria (or w/e it's called)?