Question for Christians (yes, another religion thread!)

Well, if I was to be born in Iran, there's a high chance I'll be a Muslim.

And the situation is only plausible if your parents send you to an orphange without disclosing your religion and its up to them to make you believe in what they believe.

[QUOTE="8drunkengods"][QUOTE="felixlynch777"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="123625"]Don't think God is gonna hold it against you, it was something that couldn't be helped. Plus i think it says somewhere in the Bible that rightous beleivers of different Gods in parts of the world where they havent heard christianity, are good in God's book. But to be honest this is just pure what i think. felixlynch777

Where the heck does it say that?

Dunno, I remember skimming around some of the first few chapters and something similar, I admit i may be wrong.

I guarantee you it doesn't. There's the verse that says "No one can come to the Father except through Me". So I think they go to hell actually. But I don't think God would allow people to be unreached.

Here's a quote from the Bile you will find interesting:

" I am everywhere. Look under a stone and you shall find me. God is not bound in a building of stone. God is everywhere."

Translation: You can find God anywhere not just through Christianity. And the passage you reference above I think The Prince of Peace meant that you can only go to heaven through goodness, i.e Jesus Christ. I don't think Jesus would send someone to hell for not being Christian.

such an interesting way to refer to it... yet so true.

I'm not joking or being sarcastic you're a pretty funny guy.

thanks... I try.

Hello all, I'm a little late joining the thread but tell me if this answers your question;

First, look in a Bible at the Apostle John's Gospel, chapter 3, verses 16 to 18;

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son [Jesus Christ], that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the worl, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Notice in the last verse, that those who 'have not believed in the name of the only Son of God' are condemned already. So, the answer to your question as far the Bible says is "Yes." Believing in Jesus is the only way to be saved. Also, notice that John says "condemned already" meaning that there is something everyone is already guilty of before they ever hear about Jesus and that is why if you don't believe in Jesus, even if you have never heard of him or never will (like if you live in a secluded place, like a jungle or something), there is still something everyone has done wrong, that they are guilty of.

If you want to know what that wrong thing is, flip a few books over from the Book of John to the Book of Romans, chapter 1, verses 18-23. The Apostle Paul says what this is that everyone is already guilty of;

"For the wrath of God isrevealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrigtheousness of men, who by their unrigtheousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attibutes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly percieve, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although the knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling moratl man and birds and animals and creeping things."

Notice how almost every sentence begins with the word "For", meaning that what is in that sentence depends on what is said in the sentence before it. So, read through Paul's words backwards. Who is he talking about? Answers in the last sentence: Those who 'exchanged the immortal God for images...' He's talking about people who worship anything created and not the Creator. Why do they do that? Previous sentence: 'they became futile in their thinking'. Why did they become that way? Previous sentence: 'They knew God but did not honor him as God or give thanks to him.' They know there is a God but they don't care, they aren't thankful, even based on the small amount of knowledge they have. But how do they know God is there? Previous sentence: 'God's attributes are clearly percieved in the things that have been made'. That there is a creation, a universe and things in it, is proof that there is a Creator, otherwise, there would be just nothingness. Did they have to be smart or lucky or rich to figure this out? Previous sentence: 'For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them'. No, God has shown Himself in his creation to everyone, he has put a knowledge of himself in every person's mind and heart. So, what does the Apostle Paul say about everyone then? "So they are without excuse".

No one has any excuse not to worship God because everyone knows something about him from His creation and no matter how small the information may be, everyone does not react to it they way that they should. Everyone, "by their unrighteousness suppresses the truth."

Well, sorry to make such a long post. Just thought I provide a little information about what the Bible says on your question. Please feel free to PM if you have any more questions :).

God bless,

Atomic_Toast

[QUOTE="fidosim"]The people on this forum sure have a lot of questions for Christians. If you really wanted to know, you would've asked a Pastor. These threads are purposely inflammatory and should be locked.8drunkengods

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! They always touch you in bad places and undress you with their eyes!!!

My dad is a pastor :|

Just talk to someone about christ and if you have faith that he died for your sins you are saved. baptism is pretty much the next step, doesn't save you, but it is a step of faith.

edit:but if you never heard of christ before then just believe in a personal god that loves you, if everyone heard of christ then Christians wouldn't be needed in the world. Our duty is to spread the word, but not force it down anyones throat.

(Luke 13:3) - "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
(John 14:6) - "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Unless you repent of your sins and ask the One True God, the Lord Jesus Christ, into your heart, you will die in your sins and go to a Devil's hell.
(Revelation 20:14-15) - "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. {15} And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
When we ask Jesus Christ into our heart, our names are written into the Book of Life. But if we are never saved...no matter how good we are, how cool we are, how strong we are, how handsome or pretty we are, we will not enter Heaven.
The only way to heaven is through the Lord Jesus Christ, by accepting him into our hearts and repenting of our sins. Repenting, meaning turning away from our sins and casting them far from us.
When we do this, we are a Child of God. When our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life...they can never be erased. Once God's child, always God's child.
But if we are never God's child, we will perish. Christ must be in our heart. Otherwise, we will perish. That is certain.
If someone who's reading this has never asked Christ into their heart, I urge them to do so now. If you do, please PM me.
God bless.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="123625"]Don't think God is gonna hold it against you, it was something that couldn't be helped. Plus i think it says somewhere in the Bible that rightous beleivers of different Gods in parts of the world where they havent heard christianity, are good in God's book. But to be honest this is just pure what i think. 8drunkengods

Where the heck does it say that?

Dunno, I remember skimming around some of the first few chapters and something similar, I admit i may be wrong.

I guarantee you it doesn't. There's the verse that says "No one can come to the Father except through Me". So I think they go to hell actually. But I don't think God would allow people to be unreached.

Kinda unfair then.

Like previously stated, I don't think anyone in this life hasn't heard of the Jehovah God. I mean Christianity is everywhere.

unfortunate, eh?

Without Christianity we would have anarchy.

I'm a pastafarian. We know our s**t.8drunkengods

Ramen, brother!

you'd believe in the god you were taught about by your parents, teachers and others in authority just as most christians do... and you'd be certain your belief is the "correct" one.

[QUOTE="8drunkengods"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="mikeg0788"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]The people on this forum sure have a lot of questions for Christians. If you really wanted to know, you would've asked a Pastor. These threads are purposely inflammatory and should be locked.battlefront23

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! They always touch you in bad places and undress you with their eyes!!!

That bigoted stereotype only applies to Catholic Priests.

:lol:

Hypocrisy Award of the day goes to....fidosim! For his utter lack of logic and ability to criticize others for actions he himself commits, fidosim is awarded the daily OT Hypocrisy Award. Congrats, it was well deserved!

I'm not saying Catholic Priests are molesters, genius. I'm saying people generally only make that stereotype about them because of a few incidents a few years ago.

a few?!?! Hell of a lot more than that.

This explains it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

Are they following what the Bible say? Obviously not so they are crappy priests. The catholic church are responsible for almost all of the skelteons in the closet of Christianity.

no surprise there considering the length of time the catholic church has been around....

Well, you'd prolly be taught about allah and never even think about the christian god... I'm a pastafarian. We know our s**t.8drunkengods

Well there's no difference between Allah and "christian God". It is the same God. It's also the same God Jews believe in.

It's like is was one Huge religion with 3 differents views on the matter.

If you were born and raised in a situation where you were never introduced to christianity (like if you were born in Iran, or alone on a desert island), how would you come to believe in God?

Sooshy

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="mikeg0788"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]The people on this forum sure have a lot of questions for Christians. If you really wanted to know, you would've asked a Pastor. These threads are purposely inflammatory and should be locked.comp_atkins

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! They always touch you in bad places and undress you with their eyes!!!

That bigoted stereotype only applies to Catholic Priests.

:lol:

Hypocrisy Award of the day goes to....fidosim! For his utter lack of logic and ability to criticize others for actions he himself commits, fidosim is awarded the daily OT Hypocrisy Award. Congrats, it was well deserved!

I'm not saying Catholic Priests are molesters, genius. I'm saying people generally only make that stereotype about them because of a few incidents a few years ago.

a few?!?! Hell of a lot more than that.

This explains it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

Are they following what the Bible say? Obviously not so they are crappy priests. The catholic church are responsible for almost all of the skelteons in the closet of Christianity.

no surprise there considering the length of time the catholic church has been around....

Well the protestants have been around for 500 years or more. What have they done?

well the protestants have been around for 500 years or more. What have they done?

battlefront23

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

well the protestants have been around for 500 years or more. What have they done?

Mr_sprinkles

Practicing witch rituals is wrong but alright that was wrong that we burned them. What else? Oh yeah Islam hasn't been around as long as Christianity and talk about skeletons in your closet.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

well the protestants have been around for 500 years or more. What have they done?

Mr_sprinkles

Yes, I remember those! Those were awesome!!

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="mikeg0788"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]The people on this forum sure have a lot of questions for Christians. If you really wanted to know, you would've asked a Pastor. These threads are purposely inflammatory and should be locked.battlefront23

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! They always touch you in bad places and undress you with their eyes!!!

That bigoted stereotype only applies to Catholic Priests.

:lol:

Hypocrisy Award of the day goes to....fidosim! For his utter lack of logic and ability to criticize others for actions he himself commits, fidosim is awarded the daily OT Hypocrisy Award. Congrats, it was well deserved!

I'm not saying Catholic Priests are molesters, genius. I'm saying people generally only make that stereotype about them because of a few incidents a few years ago.

a few?!?! Hell of a lot more than that.

This explains it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

Are they following what the Bible say? Obviously not so they are crappy priests. The catholic church are responsible for almost all of the skelteons in the closet of Christianity.

no surprise there considering the length of time the catholic church has been around....

Well the protestants have been around for 500 years or more. What have they done?

ask the native americans...

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="mikeg0788"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]The people on this forum sure have a lot of questions for Christians. If you really wanted to know, you would've asked a Pastor. These threads are purposely inflammatory and should be locked.comp_atkins

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! They always touch you in bad places and undress you with their eyes!!!

That bigoted stereotype only applies to Catholic Priests.

:lol:

Hypocrisy Award of the day goes to....fidosim! For his utter lack of logic and ability to criticize others for actions he himself commits, fidosim is awarded the daily OT Hypocrisy Award. Congrats, it was well deserved!

I'm not saying Catholic Priests are molesters, genius. I'm saying people generally only make that stereotype about them because of a few incidents a few years ago.

a few?!?! Hell of a lot more than that.

This explains it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

Are they following what the Bible say? Obviously not so they are crappy priests. The catholic church are responsible for almost all of the skelteons in the closet of Christianity.

no surprise there considering the length of time the catholic church has been around....

Well the protestants have been around for 500 years or more. What have they done?

ask the native americans...

LOL My sister's fiance is Native American and he is doing fine to put it lightly. That was America not Protestants.

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="mikeg0788"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]The people on this forum sure have a lot of questions for Christians. If you really wanted to know, you would've asked a Pastor. These threads are purposely inflammatory and should be locked.battlefront23

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! They always touch you in bad places and undress you with their eyes!!!

That bigoted stereotype only applies to Catholic Priests.

:lol:

Hypocrisy Award of the day goes to....fidosim! For his utter lack of logic and ability to criticize others for actions he himself commits, fidosim is awarded the daily OT Hypocrisy Award. Congrats, it was well deserved!

I'm not saying Catholic Priests are molesters, genius. I'm saying people generally only make that stereotype about them because of a few incidents a few years ago.

a few?!?! Hell of a lot more than that.

This explains it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

Are they following what the Bible say? Obviously not so they are crappy priests. The catholic church are responsible for almost all of the skelteons in the closet of Christianity.

no surprise there considering the length of time the catholic church has been around....

Well the protestants have been around for 500 years or more. What have they done?

ask the native americans...

LOL My sister's fiance is Native American and he is doing fine to put it lightly. That was America not Protestants.

take a history c1ass

People that say they believe in God may not get into heaven. Acoording to the bible and jesus isen't it about ones heart? Not ones knowledge?funkadelichika

Paper_Knife: So you could do as many immoral things as you like, never ask Jesus for forgivenss, and still get into heaven? Well, you're going to be hanging out with a lot of bad people after you die.

ReverseCycology, I'm talking about people that are never introduced to christianity. How would they ever have the choice if they never know about it?

Sooshy

What part of NOT ACOUNTABLE do you not understand.

[QUOTE="comp_atkins"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="mikeg0788"][QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="8drunkengods"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]The people on this forum sure have a lot of questions for Christians. If you really wanted to know, you would've asked a Pastor. These threads are purposely inflammatory and should be locked.battlefront23

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! They always touch you in bad places and undress you with their eyes!!!

That bigoted stereotype only applies to Catholic Priests.

:lol:

Hypocrisy Award of the day goes to....fidosim! For his utter lack of logic and ability to criticize others for actions he himself commits, fidosim is awarded the daily OT Hypocrisy Award. Congrats, it was well deserved!

I'm not saying Catholic Priests are molesters, genius. I'm saying people generally only make that stereotype about them because of a few incidents a few years ago.

a few?!?! Hell of a lot more than that.

This explains it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

Are they following what the Bible say? Obviously not so they are crappy priests. The catholic church are responsible for almost all of the skelteons in the closet of Christianity.

no surprise there considering the length of time the catholic church has been around....

Well the protestants have been around for 500 years or more. What have they done?

Are you serious? Witch hunts, Southern Slavery,Genocide of Indians, KKK, Nazi Germany.

Nazi Germany.

felixlynch777

Explain.

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"]

Nazi Germany.

Dracargen

Explain.

Okay it's going to take a while though.

At the end of WW2 the U.S government hired a team of expert psychologists to asses the mental state of Adolf Hitler They came up with this conclusion.

"Hitler saw himself as an agent of God, who was born so that he could purge the world of Jews and other non-Christians. He saw Jesus as a hater of Jews and thought that he was doing what Jesus started. He was heavily influenced by Christian anti-semitism and because he was the only surviving child of his parents, and that in WW1 when he escaped death from a shrapnel shell where as the rest of his squad was killed, he saw his survival as Divine Intervention. He had strong alliances with the Catholic Church and he used several Christian symbols as Nazi Art. But above all, he did not feel remorse for his actions, he just saw it as the will of God."

If you were born and raised in a situation where you were never introduced to christianity (like if you were born in Iran, or alone on a desert island), how would you come to believe in God?

Sooshy

By coming onto gaming forums and asking hardcore gamers.

If you were born and raised in a situation where you were never introduced to christianity (like if you were born in Iran, or alone on a desert island), how would you come to believe in God?

Sooshy

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="felixlynch777"]

Nazi Germany.

felixlynch777

Explain.

Okay it's going to take a while though.

At the end of WW2 the U.S government hired a team of expert psychologists to asses the mental state of Adolf Hitler They came up with this conclusion.

"Hitler saw himself as an agent of God, who was born so that he could purge the world of Jews and other non-Christians. He saw Jesus as a hater of Jews and thought that he was doing what Jesus started. He was heavily influenced by Christian anti-semitism and because he was the only surviving child of his parents, and that in WW1 when he escaped death from a shrapnel shell where as the rest of his squad was killed, he saw his survival as Divine Intervention. He had strong alliances with the Catholic Church and he used several Christian symbols as Nazi Art. But above all, he did not feel remorse for his actions, he just saw it as the will of God."

First, I want the source of this information, as well as the psychologists who performed that study (if possible). It looks like some RRS crap. Firstly, Nazi symbols were the Swastika, which was NOT a Christian symbol, but a Hindu one. Secondly, the Catholic Church was FORCED to do what Hitler wanted; you honestly think that they would have been spared if they refused? Hitler had ties to the Catholic Church--when he was TEN. He left that CC when he got older.

Oh, and "Christian anti-semitism"? What the hell? Jesus Christ was a JEW; do you honestly think Christians hate Jews? The Holocaust was a Eugenics program, and eugenics has a completely different source than religion.

Second, I highly doubt Hitler was a Christian, with quotes like these from his own personal letters:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, **** Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278 )

Allah and God are the same beings.Shad0ki11

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="felixlynch777"]

Nazi Germany.

Dracargen

Explain.

Okay it's going to take a while though.

At the end of WW2 the U.S government hired a team of expert psychologists to asses the mental state of Adolf Hitler They came up with this conclusion.

"Hitler saw himself as an agent of God, who was born so that he could purge the world of Jews and other non-Christians. He saw Jesus as a hater of Jews and thought that he was doing what Jesus started. He was heavily influenced by Christian anti-semitism and because he was the only surviving child of his parents, and that in WW1 when he escaped death from a shrapnel shell where as the rest of his squad was killed, he saw his survival as Divine Intervention. He had strong alliances with the Catholic Church and he used several Christian symbols as Nazi Art. But above all, he did not feel remorse for his actions, he just saw it as the will of God."

First, I want the source of this information, as well as the psychologists who performed that study (if possible). It looks like some RRS crap. Firstly, Nazi symbols were the Swastika, which was NOT a Christian symbol, but a Hindu one. Secondly, the Catholic Church was FORCED to do what Hitler wanted; you honestly think that they would have been spared if they refused? Hitler had ties to the Catholic Church--when he was TEN. He left that CC when he got older.

Oh, and "Christian anti-semitism"? What the hell? Jesus Christ was a JEW; do you honestly think Christians hate Jews? The Holocaust was a Eugenics program, and eugenics has a completely different source than religion.

Second, I highly doubt Hitler was a Christian, with quotes like these from his own personal letters:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, **** Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278 )

I agree Hitler was probably not a Christian but I'll address some of your points;

"Oh, and "Christian anti-semitism"? What the hell? Jesus Christ was a JEW; do you honestly think Christians hate Jews?"

Well he fact that Jesus was a Jew has been ignored by Christians for centuries:

1100: 1500 Jews flee from Germany.

1228: Jews forced to wear distinctive badge in Spain.

1266: In Poland Church decrees that Jews cannot live with Christians.

1268: Total destruction of Jewish community in Italy.

1279: In Hungary Church decrees that Jews must wear distinctive red cloth on left arm

1321: 150 Jews buried alive in France.

1355: 12,000 Jews massacred in Spain

1391: 50,000 Jews killed in Majorca, Spain

1391: Jews massacred in Sicily

1399: Widespread persecution of Jews in Poland

1412: Jews in France forced to live in ghettos

1420: Jews expelled from Lyon, France

1420: Jewish community massacred in Toulouse, France

1474: Jews massacred in Sicily

1492: 190,000 thousand Jews killed in Italy

1492: Jews expelled from Malta

1494: Jews forced to live in Ghettos in Krakow, Poland.

1498: Jews massacred in Portugal

Many of these instances bare many similar things to Nazism.

"Secondly, the Catholic Church was FORCED to do what Hitler wanted; you honestly think that they would have been spared if they refused?"

It is common knowledge that the Pope was the only person who could have stopped Hitler but he stood by without lifting a finger.

At his trialFranz Von Papensaid that until 1936 the Catholic Church hoped for a Christian alignment with Nazi Geramny to the beneficial aspects he said they saw in national socialism. (This statement came afterPope Pius XII attended Von Papen's appointment asPapal chamberlainand ambassador to theHoly See, but before his restoration underPope John XXIII.)

Criticism also arose in that the Vatican pontificate headed byPope Pius XIandPope Pius XIIhad remained circumspect about the national-scale race hatred before 1937 (Mit brennender Sorge). In1937, just before the publishing of the anti-Nazi encyclical,Eugenio Cardinal PacelliinLourdes, Francecondemned discrimination against Jews and theneopaganismof the Nazi regime. A statement by Pius XI on8 September1938spoke of the "inadmissibility" of anti-semitism, but Pius XII is criticised by people likeJohn Cornwellfor being unspecific. Pius XI may have underestimated the degree that Hitler's ideas influenced the laity in light of hopes the Concordate would preserve Catholic influences amongst them. The evolution of the Vatican's understanding has faced criticism of weakness, slowness, or even culpability.

"Firstly, Nazi symbols were the Swastika, which was NOT a Christian symbol, but a Hindu one."

Here is more evidence that backs my claims:

Hitler and other Nazi leaders clearly made use of bothChristiansymbolism combined with indigenousGermanic paganimagery mixed with ancientRomansymbolism and emotion inpropagandafor the German public.

And I'll leave you with this last interesting evidence of religious involvement in Nazism. It is a prayer made by Adolf Hitler for the German People:

Leader, my Leader, given to me by God, protect me and sustain my life for a long time you have rescued Germanyout of deepest misery, to you I owe my daily bread

Leader, my Leader, my belief, my lightLeader, my Leader, do not abandon me.

I agree Hitler was probably not a Christian but I'll address some of your points;

"Oh, and "Christian anti-semitism"? What the hell? Jesus Christ was a JEW; do you honestly think Christians hate Jews?"

Well he fact that Jesus was a Jew has been ignored by Christians for centuries:

1100: 1500 Jews flee from Germany.

This was the act of Christianity. . . .how?

1228: Jews forced to wear distinctive badge in Spain.

Same as above.

1266: In Poland Church decrees that Jews cannot live with Christians.

Not necessarily anti-semitism.

1268: Total destruction of Jewish community in Italy.

Same as 1 and 2.

1279: In Hungary Church decrees that Jews must wear distinctive red cloth on left arm

Same as 3.

1321: 150 Jews buried alive in France.

Same as 1 and 2.

1355: 12,000 Jews massacred in Spain

Same as 1 and 2.

1391: 50,000 Jews killed in Majorca, Spain

Same as 1 and 2.

1391: Jews massacred in Sicily

Same as 1 and 2.

1399: Widespread persecution of Jews in Poland

Same as 1 and 2.

1412: Jews in France forced to live in ghettos

Same as 1 and 2.

1420: Jews expelled from Lyon, France

Same as 1 and 2.

1420: Jewish community massacred in Toulouse, France

Same as 1 and 2.

1474: Jews massacred in Sicily

Same as 1 and 2.

1492: 190,000 thousand Jews killed in Italy

Same as 1 and 2.

1492: Jews expelled from Malta

Same as 1 and 2.

1494: Jews forced to live in Ghettos in Krakow, Poland.

. . . . .. . . .you already brought this up. . . . . .

1498: Jews massacred in Portugal

Same as 1 and 2.

Many of these instances bare many similar things to Nazism.

I don't know if you know how it works, but it goes like this: You can't just pick a random act of violence out of history and blame Christianity for it; you have to kinda show how Christians were responsible.

"Secondly, the Catholic Church was FORCED to do what Hitler wanted; you honestly think that they would have been spared if they refused?"

It is common knowledge that the Pope was the only person who could have stopped Hitler but he stood by without lifting a finger.

At his trialFranz Von Papensaid that until 1936 the Catholic Church hoped for a Christian alignment with Nazi Geramny to the beneficial aspects he said they saw in national socialism. (This statement came afterPope Pius XII attended Von Papen's appointment asPapal chamberlainand ambassador to theHoly See, but before his restoration underPope John XXIII.)

Criticism also arose in that the Vatican pontificate headed byPope Pius XIandPope Pius XIIhad remained circumspect about the national-scale race hatred before 1937 (Mit brennender Sorge). In1937, just before the publishing of the anti-Nazi encyclical,Eugenio Cardinal PacelliinLourdes, Francecondemned discrimination against Jews and theneopaganismof the Nazi regime. A statement by Pius XI on8 September1938spoke of the "inadmissibility" of anti-semitism, but Pius XII is criticised by people likeJohn Cornwellfor being unspecific. Pius XI may have underestimated the degree that Hitler's ideas influenced the laity in light of hopes the Concordate would preserve Catholic influences amongst them. The evolution of the Vatican's understanding has faced criticism of weakness, slowness, or even culpability.

I know you're just blindly copy/pasting this information from some website, and as I asked before, I want to know what that website is.

"Firstly, Nazi symbols were the Swastika, which was NOT a Christian symbol, but a Hindu one."

Here is more evidence that backs my claims:

Hitler and other Nazi leaders clearly made use of bothChristiansymbolism combined with indigenousGermanic paganimagery mixed with ancientRomansymbolism and emotion inpropagandafor the German public.

Um, that isn't evidence.:| It's speculation from some person you copy/pasted. It would be like me going "This guy said the sky is green, so that's evidence for the sky being green!"

The Nazi symbol was the Swastika, a Hindu symbol that represented peace and prosperity.

The original Swastika:

The Nazi Swastika:

And I'll leave you with this last interesting evidence of religious involvement in Nazism. It is a prayer made by Adolf Hitler for the German People:

Leader, my Leader, given to me by God, protect me and sustain my life for a long time you have rescued Germanyout of deepest misery, to you I owe my daily bread

Leader, my Leader, my belief, my lightLeader, my Leader, do not abandon me.

Of course.:| Religion has been used as a scapegoat to appeal to the masses for centuries. People are even doing it today, though not to such extremes.

felixlynch777

It is common knowledge that the Pope was the only person who could have stopped Hitler but he stood by without lifting a finger.

And I'll leave you with this last interesting evidence of religious involvement in Nazism. It is a prayer made by Adolf Hitler for the German People:

felixlynch777

And second....Hitler was in power in a country that followed religion. He had to appear publicly to be religious...that doesn't mean he was...and from his actions it's clear he wasn't.:|

Once again, logic can be used to solve this problem( though I a not a Christian but a Muslim).

We all know that belief is a choice. A person can only make a choice when he has knowledge, about the thing. If a person doesnot have the knowledge, then obviously he cannot make a choice. Religious scriptures ask people to make a choice: believe or disbelieve. Therefore, in the verses it is expected that the reader already knows about the religion and so he is capable of making a choice ( only then one can choose to disbelieve).

Hence, a person who is unaware of the religion is not sinning. For he doesnot have sufficient knowledge to actually make the choice.....

If for some reason you die without knowing about God but you were still a good person and followed the man's rules than I guess there's no reason for you not to go to heaven.

I'm catholic BTW

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="felixlynch777"]

Nazi Germany.

felixlynch777

Explain.

Okay it's going to take a while though.

At the end of WW2 the U.S government hired a team of expert psychologists to asses the mental state of Adolf Hitler They came up with this conclusion.

"Hitler saw himself as an agent of God, who was born so that he could purge the world of Jews and other non-Christians. He saw Jesus as a hater of Jews and thought that he was doing what Jesus started. He was heavily influenced by Christian anti-semitism and because he was the only surviving child of his parents, and that in WW1 when he escaped death from a shrapnel shell where as the rest of his squad was killed, he saw his survival as Divine Intervention. He had strong alliances with the Catholic Church and he used several Christian symbols as Nazi Art. But above all, he did not feel remorse for his actions, he just saw it as the will of God."

Of all those instances above you say Christians were not responsible? All of those countries had huge Christian populations and those acts were commited out of religious fervour induced by clergy.

I think if you call my arguements copy and pasting you have no real points you yourself. Please think about my points and try to raise valid ones yourself instead of personal insults.

All my sources are from the book:"The Holy Reich, Nazi concepttions of Christianity"

All my sources are from the book:"The Holy Reich, Nazi concepttions of Christianity"

felixlynch777

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="felixlynch777"]

Nazi Germany.

felixlynch777

Explain.

Okay it's going to take a while though.

At the end of WW2 the U.S government hired a team of expert psychologists to asses the mental state of Adolf Hitler They came up with this conclusion.

"Hitler saw himself as an agent of God, who was born so that he could purge the world of Jews and other non-Christians. He saw Jesus as a hater of Jews and thought that he was doing what Jesus started. He was heavily influenced by Christian anti-semitism and because he was the only surviving child of his parents, and that in WW1 when he escaped death from a shrapnel shell where as the rest of his squad was killed, he saw his survival as Divine Intervention. He had strong alliances with the Catholic Church and he used several Christian symbols as Nazi Art. But above all, he did not feel remorse for his actions, he just saw it as the will of God."

But, since Jesus was a Jew and didn't hate Jews (unless he hated himself), this doesn't prove that much. Also, didn't Hitler believe in Evolution (sorry if I'm wrong about the evolution part).

[QUOTE="felixlynch777"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="felixlynch777"]

Nazi Germany.

littledoug

Explain.

Okay it's going to take a while though.

At the end of WW2 the U.S government hired a team of expert psychologists to asses the mental state of Adolf Hitler They came up with this conclusion.

"Hitler saw himself as an agent of God, who was born so that he could purge the world of Jews and other non-Christians. He saw Jesus as a hater of Jews and thought that he was doing what Jesus started. He was heavily influenced by Christian anti-semitism and because he was the only surviving child of his parents, and that in WW1 when he escaped death from a shrapnel shell where as the rest of his squad was killed, he saw his survival as Divine Intervention. He had strong alliances with the Catholic Church and he used several Christian symbols as Nazi Art. But above all, he did not feel remorse for his actions, he just saw it as the will of God."

But, since Jesus was a Jew and didn't hate Jews (unless he hated himself), this doesn't prove that much. Also, didn't Hitler believe in Evolution (sorry if I'm wrong about the evolution part).

If you were born and raised in a situation where you were never introduced to christianity (like if you were born in Iran, or alone on a desert island), how would you come to believe in God?

Sooshy