^^
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Life has purpose despite what the nihilist might tell us.PhilokaliaLife has no inherent, or objective purpose. We will live and we will die, and the vast majority of matter in the universe (read: 99.999...%) will not care what we have done, or that we even lived. For a purpose to exist, some kind of conceptual value must be attributed to life, and only human beings (as far as we know) have assigned value to their existence. And they are arrogant enough to think the universe is actually catered to their needs, and is interested in their day-to-day activities. Any value we might attribute to life and our existence is ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things. But we might as well enjoy what we have, since we have the faculties to enjoy.
Life can be purposeless or purposeful depending on who is experiencing it. There are some people who see no reason to go through life, others assign goals and values to life from which their purpose is derived.
[QUOTE="Philokalia"]Life has purpose despite what the nihilist might tell us.ZevianderLife has no inherent, or objective purpose. We will live and we will die, and the vast majority of matter in the universe (read: 99.999...%) will not care what we have done, or that we even lived. For a purpose to exist, some kind of conceptual value must be attributed to life, and only human beings (as far as we know) have assigned value to their existence. And they are arrogant enough to think the universe is actually catered to their needs, and is interested in their day-to-day activities. Any value we might attribute to life and our existence is ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things. But we might as well enjoy what we have, since we have the faculties to enjoy.
That's a pretty bleak way to look at life. Life has several purposes both spiritually assigned and otherwise. At the absolute minimum, we have the purpose to procreate and ensure the survival of our species.
Surely even the bleakest of us can agree to that?
That's a pretty bleak way to look at life. Life has several purposes both spiritually assigned and otherwise. At the absolute minimum, we have the purpose to procreate and ensure the survival of our species. Surely even the bleakest of us can agree to that?sayyy-gaaBleak is merely a matter of perspective. In it's purest, most distilled manner, in the "eyes" of the universe, we have zero value and zero meaning. Whether we came into existence or not is a non-issue for the benign collection of matter and energy around us. Every value, every meaning, every purpose is assigned by conscious, thinking, conceptualizing beings. I see this perspective as the only legitimate one to hold, as it burdens humanity with giving itself value, meaning and purpose, and makes us entirely responsible for our actions, our thoughts and our survival. Externalizing value to something beyond us gives us even less reason to live, for what if we have it all wrong and whatever "God" out there doesn't give a sh!t? Once we can internalize our values and purpose, then we gain infinite potential, free from the watchful eyes of the divine big brother, free to fulfill ourselves and evolve to the greatest lengths allowed by organic (and even possibly inorganic) life. Bleak is thinking we have to please a God and if we don't follow a strict set of rules set out by it, we miss out on a reward after dying. Why not take full advantage of the reward we have right here, right now? Why limit ourselves and suppress our natural tendencies?
Life has no inherent, or objective purpose. We will live and we will die, and the vast majority of matter in the universe (read: 99.999...%) will not care what we have done, or that we even lived. For a purpose to exist, some kind of conceptual value must be attributed to life, and only human beings (as far as we know) have assigned value to their existence. And they are arrogant enough to think the universe is actually catered to their needs, and is interested in their day-to-day activities. Any value we might attribute to life and our existence is ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things. But we might as well enjoy what we have, since we have the faculties to enjoy.Zeviander
Glad your consistent with your atheism. but theres no reason to enjoy the life we have, no reason to say that is better than the one who commits suicide, under your world view that is.
This baby was born with spinal muscular atrophy and will soon die. This other baby was born with organs outside it's body. What was their purpose?
Or maybe there isn't a purpose and life is just a byproduct of logical processes. Maybe we have to create our own purpose through social constucts we design ourselves?
I view the world as deterministic, we all have some role to play, it's just that role actually has zero bearing on anything else.
[QUOTE="Zeviander"] Life has no inherent, or objective purpose. We will live and we will die, and the vast majority of matter in the universe (read: 99.999...%) will not care what we have done, or that we even lived. For a purpose to exist, some kind of conceptual value must be attributed to life, and only human beings (as far as we know) have assigned value to their existence. And they are arrogant enough to think the universe is actually catered to their needs, and is interested in their day-to-day activities. Any value we might attribute to life and our existence is ultimately meaningless in the grand scheme of things. But we might as well enjoy what we have, since we have the faculties to enjoy.Philokalia
Glad your consistent with your atheism. but theres no reason to enjoy the life we have, no reason to say that is better than the one who commits suicide, under your world view that is.
And whys that? You seem to have a very negative view on things.Glad your consistent with your atheism. but theres no reason to enjoy the life we have, no reason to say that is better than the one who commits suicide, under your world view that is. PhilokaliaUnder my world view, someone who commits suicide is throwing away the only chance at life they get, and removing all of their potential for greatness from the gene pool. They are committing the most grievous of "sin" against life and themselves. Those who give themselves value and purpose in a universe that wouldn't give two sh!ts if they died tomorrow, who fulfill their potential completely and enjoy everything life has to offer are the great "saints" of our kind. They illustrate why life is worth keeping around and worth living. I doubt you could understand this though.
Under my world view, someone who commits suicide is throwing away the only chance at life they get, and removing all of their potential for greatness from the gene pool. They are committing the most grievous of "sin" against life and themselves. Those who give themselves value and purpose in a universe that wouldn't give two sh!ts if they died tomorrow, who fulfill their potential completely and enjoy everything life has to offer are the great "saints" of our kind. They illustrate why life is worth keeping around and worth living. I doubt you could understand this though.Zeviander
Greatness in the gene pool? Its just meaningless as you said before right? So therefore there is meaning? It seems you can't follow through with the idea of complete and abject meaningless thus you must somehow justify meaning. But I do understand, no one wants to die I just don't see how you can logically justify it if you say there is no meaning.
And whys that? You seem to have a very negative view on things.
toast_burner
I actually have hope in humanity.
Greatness in the gene pool? Its just meaningless as you said before right? So therefore there is meaning? It seems you can't follow through with the idea of complete and abject meaningless thus you must somehow justify meaning. But I do understand, no one wants to die I just don't see how you can logically justify it if you say there is no meaning.PhilokaliaIt seems you can't read what I write. The universe couldn't care less that we came into being and have potential through evolution. I am assigning personal, conceptual value to life... it still, objectively, lacks it. I made a very clear distinction you seem to have either missed, or are ignoring. Of course nobody wants to die (well, I bet some Christians might)! But it is a reality we all have to face if we are going to be able to give our lives value. If we keep running from death, fearing it, wanting it to just go away, we've wasted all that time avoiding an inevitability instead of better applying the time to enjoyable or productive endeavors. But I have to leave this discussion for right now, because I am running on 4 hours of sleep over a 36 hour period and am about to collapse. Better make sure I do it into bed!
[QUOTE="toast_burner"]
And whys that? You seem to have a very negative view on things.
Philokalia
I actually have hope in humanity.
Well you clearly don't since you said everyone might as well kill themsleves. There was nothing negative about what he said, you're the one who put a negative spin on it.[QUOTE="Zeviander"] Under my world view, someone who commits suicide is throwing away the only chance at life they get, and removing all of their potential for greatness from the gene pool. They are committing the most grievous of "sin" against life and themselves. Those who give themselves value and purpose in a universe that wouldn't give two sh!ts if they died tomorrow, who fulfill their potential completely and enjoy everything life has to offer are the great "saints" of our kind. They illustrate why life is worth keeping around and worth living. I doubt you could understand this though.Philokalia
Greatness in the gene pool? Its just meaningless as you said before right? So therefore there is meaning? It seems you can't follow through with the idea of complete and abject meaningless thus you must somehow justify meaning. But I do understand, no one wants to die I just don't see how you can logically justify it if you say there is no meaning.
There is no grand divine meaning to your life. To the Universe you are nothing. Less than a speck of dust. Born, lived to old age, and dead in less than a proverbal blink of an eye. Thus the mean, the purpose your life has is the one you give it. Personally I find that to be quite a positive thing. Give your life meaning and live it. It's all you have.
[QUOTE="Zeviander"] Under my world view, someone who commits suicide is throwing away the only chance at life they get, and removing all of their potential for greatness from the gene pool. They are committing the most grievous of "sin" against life and themselves. Those who give themselves value and purpose in a universe that wouldn't give two sh!ts if they died tomorrow, who fulfill their potential completely and enjoy everything life has to offer are the great "saints" of our kind. They illustrate why life is worth keeping around and worth living. I doubt you could understand this though.Philokalia
Greatness in the gene pool? Its just meaningless as you said before right? So therefore there is meaning? It seems you can't follow through with the idea of complete and abject meaningless thus you must somehow justify meaning. But I do understand, no one wants to die I just don't see how you can logically justify it if you say there is no meaning.
*Closes eyes and beats a dead horse*
If your going to have a discussion with someone wouldn't it be a bit more productive if you actually read what others wrote?
I'm not an average person.
And
That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity ? in all this vastness ? there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
I'm not an average person.
And
That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity ? in all this vastness ? there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
Drakes_Fortune
:lol: That was deep drakes. Im laughing because a profound thing such as above just seems out of the norm posting style for you. It's like when Jack Black attempted to take on serious roles and I couldn't get past the fact that he was in Bongwater.
You do know that's one of Carl Sagan's speeches, right?Blood-Scribe
Actually no but that further explains why it sounded so...out of character.
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