Question to marijuana supporters

When most people mention legalizing marijuana, one of the main cases against them is that it's dangerous for yourself and those around you.

The people in support of marijuana will normally counter back saying something along the lines of that smoking and alchohol are worse than it.

This is the part I have a problem with. Does 2 wrongs make a right? Just because smoking and drinking is legal, weed should be as well because it's less dangerous? That just doesn't make sense to me.

That's like saying abortion should stay legal because it's better than having people do it themselves, you're still killing a life(ironically i'm in favor of abortion though, but that's a different matter :P ).

And for those who say marijuana has absolutely no negative impacts at all, i'd like you to ask the thousands of people who's life turned the wrong way after being introduced to that drug. I know this is a rather weak argument I'm about to say, but I highly doubt it's coincidence that most people who use the drug aren't as successful as people who don't.

People who smoke it will continue to smoke it with or without the blessing of the government.

The whole thing about marijuana being a gateway drug is a myth, studies show that most people's first 'drug' is alcohol in almost 100 percent of cases and it's also one of the most destructive. Marijuana is hardly destructive. Toriko42

I don't know where you got your info from, but caffeine is the first 'drug' in almost 100% of cases not alcohol (which is probably second)

This is the part I have a problem with. Does 2 wrongs make a right? Just because smoking and drinking is legal, weed should be as well because it's less dangerous? That just doesn't make sense to me.

ice144

The point they're making when they say that is simple: there are no arguments against the legality of marijuana that do not also apply to either cigarettes or alcohol. If people also want those to be illegal, fine, but most don't. In fact, most don't even think of cigarettes and alcohol as a drug.

That's like saying abortion should stay legal because it's better than having people do it themselves, you're still killing a life(ironically i'm in favor of abortion though, but that's a different matter :P ).

ice144

I don't really think that's a good analogy, given that, well, it is better than having people do it themselves.

Heres a good movie to watch, The Union: Business Behind Getting High, it will help tp explain the reasons why weed should be legalized in america. It is very informative and should at least let you see the arugment from the other side in a more sophistacated light.

Two wrongs do not make a right. But when you see a person in jail for punching somebody, and someone free for killing somebody you question the logic behind it. Marijuana is harmful, but nowhere near the extent that Alcohol and Tobacco are. So people who recognize this injustice that has occurred tend to oppose it. If anything prohibition makes marijuana more harmful. There has to be a better solution for everyone.

seriously smoking cigarettes and alcohol kill millions every year, yet there is NOT ONE recorded death of an overdose of marijuana. to compare alcohol to weed, you drink a bottle of vodka you will get extremely drunk pas, out and probably have to get your stomach pumped due to alcohol poisioning (assuming your not dead already). You could smoke a pound of weed and all that would happen is you would fall asleep on your couch with a bag of funyans.

The point they're making when they say that is simple: there are no arguments against the legality of marijuana that do not also apply to either cigarettes or alcohol. If people also want those to be illegal, fine, but most don't. In fact, most don't even think of cigarettes and alcohol as a drug.

I don't really think that's a good analogy, given that, well, it is better than having people do it themselves.

GabuEx

I understand that. What I don't understand is when people use the fact that those arguments can be used on cigs/alchohol to say "Hey, so why not make marijuana legal also?" I just don't see the logic behind legalizing another potentially hazardous drug just because other more hazardous substances are legal, just because it's less dangerous. Less dangerous does not equal not dangerous.

I understand that. What I don't understand is when people use the fact that those arguments can be used on cigs/alchohol to say "Hey, so why not make marijuana legal also?" I just don't see the logic behind legalizing another potentially hazardous drug just because other more hazardous substances are legal, just because it's less dangerous. Less dangerous does not equal not dangerous.ice144

Like I said, it's basically finding an inconsistency in most people's views. If a person does not feel that alcohol or cigarettes should be illegal, there must be a reason - and their point is that the same reason can be used to argue in favor of marijuana being legal, too.

It is entirely ineffective against anyone who does feel that alcohol and cigarettes should also be illegal, but those people are in a small minority.

[QUOTE="ice144"]I understand that. What I don't understand is when people use the fact that those arguments can be used on cigs/alchohol to say "Hey, so why not make marijuana legal also?" I just don't see the logic behind legalizing another potentially hazardous drug just because other more hazardous substances are legal, just because it's less dangerous. Less dangerous does not equal not dangerous.GabuEx

Like I said, it's basically finding an inconsistency in most people's views. If a person does not feel that alcohol or cigarettes should be illegal, there must be a reason - and their point is that the same reason can be used to argue in favor of marijuana being legal, too.

It is entirely ineffective against anyone who does feel that alcohol and cigarettes should also be illegal, but those people are in a small minority.

seriously smoking cigarettes and alcohol kill millions every year, yet there is NOT ONE recorded death of an overdose of marijuana. to compare alcohol to weed, you drink a bottle of vodka you will get extremely drunk pas, out and probably have to get your stomach pumped due to alcohol poisioning (assuming your not dead already). You could smoke a pound of weed and all that would happen is you would fall asleep on your couch with a bag of funyans.

jstamm33

Who says it's two wrongs? In my opinion, neither are wrong and I don't need the government or selfrighteous people telling me what to do with my body especially when it's my own body. Who am I harming? Who? My life's great. I don't care if anyone else is addicted to pot and is falling through the gutter, they made the mistake. Why should my right to enjoy alcohol be taken away because of some other imbecile? Same thing with marijuana. Legalize it.

[QUOTE="jstamm33"]

seriously smoking cigarettes and alcohol kill millions every year, yet there is NOT ONE recorded death of an overdose of marijuana. to compare alcohol to weed, you drink a bottle of vodka you will get extremely drunk pas, out and probably have to get your stomach pumped due to alcohol poisioning (assuming your not dead already). You could smoke a pound of weed and all that would happen is you would fall asleep on your couch with a bag of funyans.

ice144

I don't know anybody who had that problem. I think its the ones using the marijuana are the ones to blame, not the marijuana itself.

[QUOTE="jstamm33"]

seriously smoking cigarettes and alcohol kill millions every year, yet there is NOT ONE recorded death of an overdose of marijuana. to compare alcohol to weed, you drink a bottle of vodka you will get extremely drunk pas, out and probably have to get your stomach pumped due to alcohol poisioning (assuming your not dead already). You could smoke a pound of weed and all that would happen is you would fall asleep on your couch with a bag of funyans.

ice144

Fact is the same could be said for many substances and even forms of entertainment. There's been people with gambling problems, smoking problems, alcohol problems even complete video game addiction yet all these are legal. Those who want to smoke will smoke thier MJ whether it is legal or not, they would just like to be able to do it without fear of the law.

Here's a fun fact, All drugs are legal in portugal and this has been the outcome so far:

Increased use of cannabis.
Decreased use of heroin.
Increased uptake of treatment.
Reduction in drug related deaths

[QUOTE="ice144"] I believe that it's too late to make cigs and alchohol illegal, but I do think weed should stay illegal so that it does not become as publicly widespread as the 2 substances just mentioned. I just can't see anything positive resulting from that.Saturos3091

Marijuana is used as a pain-killer for patients undergoing chemotherapy, not the other way around:P.

Who says it's two wrongs? In my opinion, neither are wrong and I don't need the government or selfrighteous people telling me what to do with my body especially when it's my own body. Who am I harming? Who? My life's great. I don't care if anyone else is addicted to pot and is falling through the gutter, they made the mistake. Why should my right to enjoy alcohol be taken away because of some other imbecile? Same thing with marijuana. Legalize it.

WhiteSnake5000

You're not being negatively harmed? Good for you I say, the same thing I'll tell the many people that smoke and drink sucessfully.

I'd be completely cool with legalizing it this second if prior experiences (AKA smoking and drinking) hadn't told me that for however many people "sucessfully" use a hazardous substance, there will always be people who will misuse it, hurting themselves, their family, and in some cases, other people's lives.

Let me ask you, do you believe the population of America would be affected more positively than negatively by legalizing weed? I sure don't. I understand that you use it fine, good for you, but you have to remember that many people will be nowhere near as smart as you.

[QUOTE="ice144"][QUOTE="jstamm33"]

seriously smoking cigarettes and alcohol kill millions every year, yet there is NOT ONE recorded death of an overdose of marijuana. to compare alcohol to weed, you drink a bottle of vodka you will get extremely drunk pas, out and probably have to get your stomach pumped due to alcohol poisioning (assuming your not dead already). You could smoke a pound of weed and all that would happen is you would fall asleep on your couch with a bag of funyans.

Espada12

Fact is the same could be said for many substances and even forms of entertainment. There's been people with gambling problems, smoking problems, alcohol problems even complete video game addiction yet all these are legal. Those who want to smoke will smoke thier MJ whether it is legal or not, they would just like to be able to do it without fear of the law.

Here's a fun fact, All drugs are legal in portugal and this has been the outcome so far:

Increased use of cannabis.
Decreased use of heroin.
Increased uptake of treatment.
Reduction in drug related deaths

This is true. However, many people who normally would have never been introduced to it, or was too scared to try it for the first time, will be introduced to it if it were legal.

Never knew that about Portugal, I'll do some research on that.

It's called deflection and is not an effective means to convince others to their cause....

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"]

Who says it's two wrongs? In my opinion, neither are wrong and I don't need the government or selfrighteous people telling me what to do with my body especially when it's my own body. Who am I harming? Who? My life's great. I don't care if anyone else is addicted to pot and is falling through the gutter, they made the mistake. Why should my right to enjoy alcohol be taken away because of some other imbecile? Same thing with marijuana. Legalize it.

ice144

You're not being negatively harmed? Good for you I say, the same thing I'll tell the many people that smoke and drink sucessfully.

I'd be completely cool with legalizing it this second if prior experiences (AKA smoking and drinking) hadn't told me that for however many people "sucessfully" use a hazardous substance, there will always be people who will misuse it, hurting themselves, their family, and in some cases, other people's lives.

Let me ask you, do you believe the population of America would be affected more positively than negatively by legalizing weed? I sure don't. I understand that you use it fine, good for you, but you have to remember that many people will be nowhere near as smart as you.

Never knew that about Portugal, I'll do some research on that.

ice144

Similar studies have been made of both the Netherlands, in which marijuana is legal, and of Switzerland, in which heroin is prescribed to addicts by the government. Both countries have failed to turn up the doomsday scenarios advocates of continued illegalization raise: marijuana use in the Netherlands is half what it is in the US, and the rate of heroin addiction has dropped in Switzerland where the drug is now seen as a medical problem instead of a rebellious act.

Marijuana is harmful to lot's of people. Health effects aside, prolonged and constant use puts some folks into such a deep pit of lethargy that they forgot there was ever a time that they weren't stuck in it. Overall it's still not as dire a consequence as most substance abuse but a profoundly negative one just the same.

I said lot's of people, not all, I realize that there are plenty of smokers out there who still manage to be productive and responsible people, as well as casual users. None of these cases are absolutes.

I guess that the biggest complaint I have about prohibition would be that which Bill Hicks had, "It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom." The fact is plenty of people are lethargic and sluggish without weed and it is unlikely there is scientific proof that marijuana makes people that way (though I am saying it often does.) Regardless, as a taxpaying adults in a free society people should have a legal right to enjoy or abuse marijuana.

really man you have meet that many people that have gone down hill from smoking weed, where are you at that , it is that bad. do you know thats steve jobs the man that created apple computers was high when he was making it and that ted turner the owner of cnn still smokes weed to this day. weed is not the reason people's lives go down the hill, its the person and his/her lack of self control. batman0811

Oh get off the high horse, pun totally intended. For many people it's not so much about wanting to legalize marijuana (or other drugs) as it is about the ridiculous imbalance between the act of using drugs and and the severity of potential punitive responses under the law.

Of course drugs aren't"good for you," especially if you use on a regular basis. But why take something that is inherently a HEALTH problem and burden users with something that is often far more damaging and intrusive to their lives... legal trouble. What the hell kind of sense does that make? I can understand how policy makers may have thought it wise to pass punitive laws with the intention of discouraging drug use, but the laws are clearly (and I mean CLEARLY) not working as intended. So what is the legacy of those good intentions? A massive wake of wasted dollars, extra trouble for the troubled, and groundless trouble for those who use drugs without the misuse, abuse or addiction... you know, kind of like someone's grandma who has a glass of brandy every Sunday. Sheesh.

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="ice144"] I believe that it's too late to make cigs and alchohol illegal, but I do think weed should stay illegal so that it does not become as publicly widespread as the 2 substances just mentioned. I just can't see anything positive resulting from that.MocktheDead

Marijuana is used as a pain-killer for patients undergoing chemotherapy, not the other way around:P.

[QUOTE="batman0811"]really man you have meet that many people that have gone down hill from smoking weed, where are you at that , it is that bad. do you know thats steve jobs the man that created apple computers was high when he was making it and that ted turner the owner of cnn still smokes weed to this day. weed is not the reason people's lives go down the hill, its the person and his/her lack of self control. LJS9502_basic

Coming from a person who is biased against all things marijuana related (due to personal problems in the family), I'm actually all for its legalization. At least a trial period. We won't really know the effects of legalized weed until it's tested.

I put weed in the same category as alcohol, cigarettes, and World of Warcraft. Some people can handle these things and live a perfectly normal life, and some can't. You can't really blame the drug, only the drug user. Besides, legal or not, if someone wants it, they'll get it.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="batman0811"]really man you have meet that many people that have gone down hill from smoking weed, where are you at that , it is that bad. do you know thats steve jobs the man that created apple computers was high when he was making it and that ted turner the owner of cnn still smokes weed to this day. weed is not the reason people's lives go down the hill, its the person and his/her lack of self control. batman0811

I hardly ever use that argument. It's fairly ineffective. When people start gushing breathlessly about the dangers of marijuana, it would seems pretty hypocritical to do the same with alcohol, especially considering I drink.

The main arguments I usually use is the harshness of marijuana laws, and the fact that it's a natural plant. Then again, all I want to see is it decriminalized. I could care less if it was legal.

It's called deflection and is not an effective means to convince others to their cause....

LJS9502_basic

On the other hand, though you are correct, it is true.

This debate always makes me think people have too few interests in life. >_>SolidSnake35

I also like ceramics. That's about it though. Drug threads and ceramics.

[QUOTE="WhiteSnake5000"]

Who says it's two wrongs? In my opinion, neither are wrong and I don't need the government or selfrighteous people telling me what to do with my body especially when it's my own body. Who am I harming? Who? My life's great. I don't care if anyone else is addicted to pot and is falling through the gutter, they made the mistake. Why should my right to enjoy alcohol be taken away because of some other imbecile? Same thing with marijuana. Legalize it.

ice144

You're not being negatively harmed? Good for you I say, the same thing I'll tell the many people that smoke and drink sucessfully.

I'd be completely cool with legalizing it this second if prior experiences (AKA smoking and drinking) hadn't told me that for however many people "sucessfully" use a hazardous substance, there will always be people who will misuse it, hurting themselves, their family, and in some cases, other people's lives.

Let me ask you, do you believe the population of America would be affected more positively than negatively by legalizing weed? I sure don't. I understand that you use it fine, good for you, but you have to remember that many people will be nowhere near as smart as you.

seriously...marijuana in relation to abortion in your topic? give me a break tc. marijuana = high / abortion = death

TC, there is more than one argument for our side in the legalization debate. You seem to think that our only argument is that it should be legal because alcohol and tobacco are legal. My main argument is that it's none of your business or the governments business to tell me that I can't use marijuana. As long as I'm not harming anyone but myself, it should be my choice. I understand the risks and if I should choose to smoke some pot, that should be my choice to do so.

At least we have evidence to support that it would not destroy society like you and many others seem to believe. That is a baseless argument with no facts to back it up. All the facts available(Portugal, the Netherlands, etc..) seem to say that things will be just fine if it is legalized. In fact, it would probably have a good impact on our country. The money used by our law enforcement agencies to fight the illegal sale and trafficking of marijuana could be used in many other productive ways. It would end the marijuana related violence in Mexico. The tax money from the sale of it wouldn't hurt either.

What I don't understand is how anyone can really be against its legalization. I can understand being against using it; I have no problem with that stance. I just think it's foolish to keep it illegal when there are no good outcomes that can come from it being illegal.

I'd like to hear a good reason for keeping it illegal. Its a wonder drug... it cures so many ailments and relieves so much pain and has zero negative side-effects (when smoked via vapourizer). I have yet to hear a single good reason to keep it illegal. The US marijuana market is worth $36 billion... you would think the US government would want to get in on that to settle some debt and boost the economy.

First of all just cause its bad for your health dosent make it wrong.

Thats like saying you would go to hell for eating junk food or sitting on the couch all day festering.

The thing is what isnt bad for your health now adays.

Weed makes you feel good just exersicing feels good to some or eating junk food for another.

The point is that we shouldent be told what we should be allowed to do or not do to our bodies.

Thats just what i think.

Its just not right.

When most people mention legalizing marijuana, one of the main cases against them is that it's dangerous for yourself and those around you.

The people in support of marijuana will normally counter back saying something along the lines of that smoking and alchohol are worse than it.

This is the part I have a problem with. Does 2 wrongs make a right? Just because smoking and drinking is legal, weed should be as well because it's less dangerous? That just doesn't make sense to me.

That's like saying abortion should stay legal because it's better than having people do it themselves, you're still killing a life(ironically i'm in favor of abortion though, but that's a different matter :P ).

And for those who say marijuana has absolutely no negative impacts at all, i'd like you to ask the thousands of people who's life turned the wrong way after being introduced to that drug. I know this is a rather weak argument I'm about to say, but I highly doubt it's coincidence that most people who use the drug aren't as successful as people who don't.

ice144

It's not about two wrongs making a right, it's about standards. The standards of our society say that drugs are alright to the point that they aren't higly addictive and extremely dangerous to personal health, that unless there's the possibility of an epidemic like with opium in China we should be able to make a personal choice. Now alcohol isvery addictive and can have long lasting effects on your health, but unlike, say, cocaine where your dependence can escalate very quickly, it will take years for the negative side effects to manifest. Tobacco has long term health problems and is very addictive, but again we say with the norms of our society that it is a personal choice. The research that we have on cannabis says that it is far less dangerous than alcohol in terms of health problems, no more dangerous in terms of the effects of inebriation, and at very worst slightly less dangerous than tobacco in terms of health problems. It's not two wrongs make a right, it's that alcohol and tobacco are accepted as being a personal choice and therefore aren't viewed as wrongs while weed, clearly the safest recreational drug around, is treated so differently. It's about standards and treating the situation objectively.

As for the negative impacts, thousands might be an exaggeration. And I also wouldn't agree that most people who use the drug turn out to be less successful. Every President in recent memory has admitted to using cannabis at one point or another, Michael Phelps is a user and he won eight gold medals and has been setting numerous world records, and at present the number of cannabis smokers in the country is 14.6 million and rising. If it really caused people to be chronically lazy and underachieving then not only would we not see so many people being a success after smoking it, we'd have a genuine drug epidemic on our hands, but we don't. The fact is, research showing that cannabis causes laziness is specious at best, and the gateway theory is equally flawed. There's no physical addiction to cannabis, you're not going to see addicts craving another hit. The gateway effect stems more from the fact that the drug is illegal. It's a low-profit drug, so dealers are either going to try to push a lot of it on you or sell you something that gets them more money, and is more harmful to you. You don't get that with legal dispensaries, just like you don't go into most bars and get the bartender pushing heroine on you. As for the laziness, the tests never take into account the state of mind of the user. It's usually that they just wrangle up some lazy teenagers, have them smoke pot, and go, "look, they're lazy, this proves pot's evil!" I know a good deal of pot smokers who aren't underachievers, more than I know ones who are, and I think if people met regular pot smokers when they weren't high the whole Cheech and Chong image might dissipate.

This debate always makes me think people have too few interests in life. >_>SolidSnake35

Weed is wrong just bad for you hell even if i dint smoke it ill probably get cancer or loss of memory form the crap that coal and cars put in the air every day

Weed is wrong just bad for you hell even if i dint smoke it ill probably get cancer or loss of memory form the crap that coal and cars put in the air every day

shureshot24

I'd say you were smoking a little something right now based off....nevermind. Keep up the good work.

ya im all over the place just trying to keep up with myself on too many things right now.

When most people mention legalizing marijuana, one of the main cases against them is that it's dangerous for yourself and those around you.

Drinking and smoking are the same thing blah blah blah... (see next sentence)

The people in support of marijuana will normally counter back saying something along the lines of that smoking and alchohol are worse than it.

Way worse. Do you know how many people go crazy and beat their kids/family members or drive super high and kill other people? (Alcohol) Or how 'bout how many people get lung cancer or other health problems due to weed? (Smoking cigarettes.)

This is the part I have a problem with. Does 2 wrongs make a right? Just because smoking and drinking is legal, weed should be as well because it's less dangerous? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Why would a less dangerous product being legalized and mass marketed be an issue? Have you ever taken an Advil or a pain killer of some type? Those are less dangerous products than cigarettes and tobacco, and you don't say anything against them.

That's like saying abortion should stay legal because it's better than having people do it themselves, you're still killing a life(ironically i'm in favor of abortion though, but that's a different matter :P ).

Abortions are legal in the United States. Weed isn't. If you are against abortion then fine, don't take part in it, but don't defy people who pursue it.

And for those who say marijuana has absolutely no negative impacts at all, i'd like you to ask the thousands of people who's life turned the wrong way after being introduced to that drug. I know this is a rather weak argument I'm about to say, but I highly doubt it's coincidence that most people who use the drug aren't as successful as people who don't.

How many of those "successful" people do you know that self medicate with alcohol? Or smoke? Or do something way worse than weed? You're making a massive generalization of a group of people that you really don't have anything to back up with.

ice144

Nobody is in the wrong here. Weed is a drug. It affects every person differently and it has the same basic effects from strain to strain. I can't imagine that the government couldn't moderate it the same way they do alcohol and smoking, and with far more of a hand in the profits no less. If you choose not to engage in it I completely see your point. Just don't try and tell me or a group of people that they can't do something because you feel its wrong.

The truth is that both cigarette companies and alcohol corporations stand to lose A LOT of money if weed ever approaches legalization. Think about it. If you could do weed legally why would you ever smoke or drink again? I have a strong impression that lobbyists for these companies are doing everything in their power to keep weed legal right now. Not to mention every state in the US. The biggest profit crop is weed in America. Plain and simple. If they just legalized it and taxed it like any other drug, America could put a gigantic dent in it's debt.

See also: California.