reason why NOT to vote for most/all of the democrats in the 08 election (USA)

I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.bradleybhoy

the root of the problem is the poor spending their handouts on beer, ciggs,plasma screen tv's, and $500rims for their $500 dollar cars.

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.amob

the root of the problem is the poor spending their handouts on beer, ciggs,plasma screen tv's, and $500rims for their $500 dollar cars.

Generalizations are not to be trusted. :wink:

I don't care if another country hates us, Al Qaeda has killed people in our nation and England and Spain and other nations. I'm not going to make France happy and bend over backwards to understand why Bin Laden hates us, I want him caught and imprisoned (as to not become a martyr) and to pay for his crimes against humanity.

cametall

Al Qaeda and Iraq/Hussein Link Dismissed (Washington Post)

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.amob

the root of the problem is the poor spending their handouts on beer, ciggs,plasma screen tv's, and $500rims for their $500 dollar cars.

Not only was that a heavy dose of generalization, it was just plain dumb.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, this attitude. You know, not all poor people are like that, people who aren't poor drink and smoke too. And the rims is more of part of a culture than having to do with being poor.

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.amob

the root of the problem is the poor spending their handouts on beer, ciggs,plasma screen tv's, and $500rims for their $500 dollar cars.

Oh there we go.

One question for you buddy. What do the rich spend their money on?

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.amob

the root of the problem is the poor spending their handouts on beer, ciggs,plasma screen tv's, and $500rims for their $500 dollar cars.

Perhaps the government could spend money on daycare, job training...and oh yeah...bring jobs BACK to the US.

[QUOTE="Kcube"]

Hey lets vote bush in for a third term!!

not

I am voting for Barrack Obama should he get on the ticket.
I think it will be a little hard for republicans to get in office after the crushing blow they took last year and also how they are supporting a war most of us dont want.

NathanHawkins

yeah, repulblicans took a major hit last year....but i don't understand the fanfare for obama...well, i'll say i don't understand the justified fanfare for obama. he is little more than a politician who made good with his american dream story. he has little experience as far as a politics goes (admitably as did JFK). he is imho a face of popularity. hopefully, the dems can bring a better candidate than he.

Chart wins.

(Chart is based on data taken straight from whitehouse.gov)

[QUOTE="whos_next000"][QUOTE="huladog123"][QUOTE="GettingTired"][QUOTE="huladog123"]don't you guys understand what I'm saying? do you seriously want communism and liberalism to take over the US?cametall

You really should watch the news more. It just came out how most of the fighters in Iraq are foreign fighters. I.E. they are not Iraqi. Bin Laden is believed to be on the borders of Pakistan (which is a massive mountain range).

Did you not just see we captured a high ranking insurgent in Iraq? Who admitted the Iraqi terrorist forces are small, most of it is made up of Syrians, Iranians, and Egyptians. If we leave Iraq a political vaccuum will occur and will probably leave Iraq worse than when Saddam was there. Then those insurgent fighters who are busy fighting our military will focus on blowing you, your parents, your family, and your friends up.

[QUOTE="amob"]

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.bradleybhoy

the root of the problem is the poor spending their handouts on beer, ciggs,plasma screen tv's, and $500rims for their $500 dollar cars.

Oh there we go.

One question for you buddy. What do the rich spend their money on?

the rich spend money on what they can afford.

tothe others:

no where did i say all poor people, i said"the poor"refering toa majority of a group of people.

don't you guys understand what I'm saying? do you seriously want communism and liberalism to take over the US?huladog123

well that would be socialism, and paying taxes to help you're fellow americans is less important than a war most of you don't support?

I have said it once and will say it again, the liberals you guys have down there arent real liberals.

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"][QUOTE="amob"]

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.amob

the root of the problem is the poor spending their handouts on beer, ciggs,plasma screen tv's, and $500rims for their $500 dollar cars.

Oh there we go.

One question for you buddy. What do the rich spend their money on?

the rich spend money on what they can afford.

tothe others:

no where did i say all poor people, i said"the poor"refering toa majority of a group of people.

No crap they can afford it, they're rich...

And give me proof that a majority of poor people do that. Because I guarantee that I'm around poor people more than you.

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"][QUOTE="amob"]

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.amob

the root of the problem is the poor spending their handouts on beer, ciggs,plasma screen tv's, and $500rims for their $500 dollar cars.

Oh there we go.

One question for you buddy. What do the rich spend their money on?

What a ridiculous answer.

As opposed to my hard earned tax dollars going to a war I don't support?LJS9502_basic

:lol:

Or to paying down a deficit that was caused by under-taxing the wealthy?

[QUOTE="GettingTired"][QUOTE="huladog123"]don't you guys understand what I'm saying? do you seriously want communism and liberalism to take over the US?amob

so you would rather buy a bum a beer rather than give a pay-check to someone who is actually doing something noble?

Exercising foreign policy isn't noble unless the foreign policy itself is noble. Remember, soldiers aren't serving their country - they're serving politicians. Not every application of the military is noble. Look at it this way: Nazi soldiers murdered millions of people for their politicians. Was that noble? Of course not. But it WAS doing exactly what they were ordered to do, and most of them probably joined the army to further the cause of Germany.

I bet you live in a house and have medical insurance

I have never had a house, i have slept on the floor before , gone without food for days, and i have no medical insurance

I was born to a poor family IT WASNT MY CHOICE TO BE POOR... now im going to college and going to try hard and progress, but there are a lot of ppl like me so im voting democrat and i hope they tax the hell out of the rich people :D

[QUOTE="ArmoredAshes"]

[QUOTE="Right-Wing_Tool"]Right on, man. Right now the economy is great and, on top of that, Bush has single-handedly balanced the national budget. If a Democrat is back in office, they will have to either raise taxes or just accumulate a huge and ridiculous national debt that they will just leave it to future administrations to figure out how to deal with. All Democrats do is spend, spend, spend and the next thing you know, the country will have 9 trillion dollars in national debt.cametall

hahaha at first i sorta thought you were serious. but that just shows im not really awake.

In the beginning he has a point. The economy is doing fantastic, the whole spending thing... well... Historically republicans spend very little and dems spend more. Now they both spend lots just on different things. If 9/11 had not occured I doubt Bush would have spent this much.

Pop quiz time: what is the biggest reason for the financial fiasco America situation that has been thrust upon Americans by an irresponsible administration? Hint: It isn't the war on terror.

[QUOTE="amob"]

[QUOTE="GettingTired"][QUOTE="huladog123"]don't you guys understand what I'm saying? do you seriously want communism and liberalism to take over the US?pianist

so you would rather buy a bum a beer rather than give a pay-check to someone who is actually doing something noble?

Exercising foreign policy isn't noble unless the foreign policy itself is noble. Remember, soldiers aren't serving their country - they're serving politicians. Not every application of the military is noble. Look at it this way: Nazi soldiers murdered millions of people for their politicians. Was that noble? Of course not. But it WAS doing exactly what they were ordered to do, and most of them probably joined to army to further the cause of Germany.

If you pay taxes, then a portion of your money already goes to people who don't deserve it :Psonicare

I wish I could vote to give myself a raise.

I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.bradleybhoy

Ignorance is the root of most problems. Huladog obviously lives in a comfortable situation, was brought up to believe in Republican idealism, and is incapable of understanding reality. All he understands is the propaganda that has been provided to him by his Republican upbringing.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]If you pay taxes, then a portion of your money already goes to people who don't deserve it :PSpaceMoose

I wish I could vote to give myself a raise.

LOL. Must be nice to be a politician.

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.pianist

Ignorance is the root of most problems. Huladog obviously lives in a comfortable situation, was brought up to believe in Republican idealism, and is incapable of understanding reality. All he understands is the propaganda that has been provided to him by his Republican upbringing.

Wow, you just summed up the entire Democratic ticket. I might have worded it slightly differently and used more punctuation, but well done!murlow12

He summed up nothing but a stereotypical cliche of the Democratic party. It would be easy enough for a Democrat to serve up a stereotypical cliche of the Republican party that sounds just as awful.

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.pianist

Ignorance is the root of most problems. Huladog obviously lives in a comfortable situation, was brought up to believe in Republican idealism, and is incapable of understanding reality. All he understands is the propaganda that has been provided to him by his Republican upbringing.

I have yet to meet a Republican that doesn't fall for the propaganda spouted by the party....

I've found that neither the republican or democratic idealism really deals with the reality of the world. Unfortunately for me, my age group is generally under-represented in congress. Most of it is our own fault, since people my age don't vote as much as they should and hence have no major lobby.

[QUOTE="pianist"]

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]I think the root of the problem here is people's ignorant attitudes towards poverty.LJS9502_basic

Ignorance is the root of most problems. Huladog obviously lives in a comfortable situation, was brought up to believe in Republican idealism, and is incapable of understanding reality. All he understands is the propaganda that has been provided to him by his Republican upbringing.

I have yet to meet a Republican that doesn't fall for the propaganda spouted by the party....

To be fair, it's just as bad on the other side of the fence. There are a lot of Democrats who will steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the accomplishments of the Republicans... few and far between as they may be.:P

To be fair, it's just as bad on the other side of the fence. There are a lot of Democrats who will steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the accomplishments of the Republicans... few and far between as they may be.:P

pianist

I think the fact that the "religious" right (although I fail to see what is Christian about most of their stances except perhaps abortion) has taken over such a huge chunk of the Republican party probably has a bit to do with that. These are not the same Republicans who accomplished things in years past.

Of course, I haven't really seen the Democrats do much of anything yet since they took back the majority either, besides raising the minimum wage, which is something that should be adjusted annually for inflation in my opinion.

Hula, behind your ignorance to the state of the less fortunate people in this country, is sadly an even greater ignorance, and that is your misguided support for what you believe to be a better alternative. You're telling me that rather than vote someone into office who will use my money to help somone escape an endless cycle of economic opression, I should support a party that is led by a man who is indirectly responsible for the wrongful deaths of 3500 young Americans? I should put my support behind the party whose policies have created more than 10 times as many terrorists than have been killed?

I'm sorry, but as much as I support the troops, my freedoms are not being defended in Iraq, rather they are to busy being thrown away at home. The only thing thats happening in Iraq is hundreds of thousands of children are being brainwashed into believing that I should be killed in the name of "allah", because they think I am as ignorant as people like you.

No thanks, I think I'll vote for Ron Paul or the democratic candidate.

don't you guys understand what I'm saying? do you seriously want communism and liberalism to take over the US?huladog123

I think the fact that the "religious" right (although I fail to see what is Christian about most of their stances except perhaps abortion) has taken over such a huge chunk of the Republican party probably has a bit to do with that.

SpaceMoose

Indeed.

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another." (Romans 14:19).

"We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves." (Romans 15:1)

That doesn't seem to fit very well with the typical Republican stance on foreign policy and treatment of the poor, now does it? They also conveniently ignore Jesus's teachings about the dangers of excessive wealth, and the story about the rich man who would not part with his possessions to follow Jesus. Apparently, it's MUCH better to be greedy, take as much as you can, and give back nothing whatsoever to those who are less fortunate than you are.

But that's probably just me and my 'lib'ral bias.' :roll:

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]

To be fair, it's just as bad on the other side of the fence. There are a lot of Democrats who will steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the accomplishments of the Republicans... few and far between as they may be.:P

I think the fact that the "religious" right (although I fail to see what is Christian about most of their stances except perhaps abortion) has taken over such a huge chunk of the Republican party probably has a bit to do with that.

pianist

Indeed.

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another." (Romans 14:19).

That doesn't seem to fit very well with the typical Republican stance on foreign policy and treatment of the poor, now does it? They also conveniently ignore Jesus's teachings about the dangers of excessive wealth, and the story about the rich man who would not part with his possessions to follow Jesus.

But that's probably just me and my 'lib'ral bias.' :roll:

i just thought this was interesting

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm#pgfId-1070627

especially the chart labeled"Ownership of Property and Amenities Among the Poor" as well as the explanation.

A lot of people have this ridiculous attitude towards poverty. People that need financial assistance often do have jobs and work hard. However the problem is that they can often only find minimum wage or partime work, which is far from enough to pay for rent, food etc. especially at a time when housing prices are soaring. When you're born into poverty it's extremely difficult to escape. My choice canidate, Mike Gravel (who supports completely socialized healthcare, not Edwards, Obama or Clinton's sudo-state health care systems) has a great taxation plan so that middle class will pay no more tax and the upper class will pay only slightly increased taxes(after rolling back Bush's cuts). It starts with getting rid of Bush's tax cuts for the rich as well as the income tax and then at the same time introducing a retail tax. On top of that we digitalize the information going in and out the Health Care System. And finally we won't be spending billions on the failed invasion of Iraq.espoac

Hell yes Gravel FTW!

Finally a politician who isn't in it for the money (He barely gets the funding to make it to the debates!!!)

That man just might be the person to turn our country around!!!

BTW our government definitely needs to adopt some socialist policies. For instance, college should be funded by the government, like the rest of school. It is ridiculous how they expect us to pay tens of thousands of dollars, to go to school so we can actually get a job that pays decent. If they did that I bet you would see a major increase in college degrees. This happens to be somkething that would GREATLY help the poverty situation, seeing as it could help people get into college who couldn't pay for it otherwise.

Also, they better fix our social security system. I will be insanely PO'd if I pay for SS for years out of my hard earned money just to have it not be there for me when I get old....

How about screw both the major parties, because everyone is in some company/group's pocket. The Democrats want to rae your wallet (if you work) and the Republicans want to tell you how to live your personal life that they have no damn business being in. Vote 3rd party. Or not at all, I'm not gonna tell you what to do :P

And to reply to the last comment, depending on which side you vote for depends what sounds more favorable, shifting slowly to Facism or Communism. Either way, the two party system sucks.

Yagami-Iori

Yeah, I'm for not voting. It gets me nothing. I know I should "exercise the right my forefathers fought for", but it seems like a lose-lose situation. A real catch-22.

i just thought this was interesting

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm#pgfId-1070627

especially the chart labeled"Ownership of Property and Amenities Among the Poor" as well as the explanation.

amob

Aren't one-sided studies great? I love it when intellectuals sell their talents to special interest groups and paint a rosy picture of a bleak situation. "Poor Americans aren't starving on the streets! They own things! So we don't have to do anything to address income inequality!" What they fail to mention is that these people who miss rent payments here and there, or can't pay their electricity bill on time, or are 'well-nourished' on TV dinners are living from one pay cheque to the next. In the event of a disaster (like a medical emergency), they're screwed. If they want to send their children to an excellent college or university, they're screwed. When they hit retirement, they'll definitely be screwed, because they have no savings and have never been taught how to invest.

It's really easy to paint a rosy picture. As the old saying goes, you can use facts to prove anything so long as you use only the ones that best support your position. If I were to read this study knowing nothing at all about the issue of poverty, I'd think "why are these people complaining? They're FAR better off than most of the people in the world." But that's because it fails to address the long-term issues these people will face, and does absolutely nothing to address WHY these people make the life decisions that make them poor. It is, after all, no coincidence that a child growing up in a poor household is more likely to become a poor adult, whereas a child growing up in a wealthy household is more likely to become a wealthy adult.

Pianist, you attributed some of your own words to me in that quote there. ;)SpaceMoose

Noted and fixed.

No thanks. I'm still going to support Dennis Kucinich.GettingTired

Yay! A fellow Kucinich supporter!

Anyway, this topic exposes one of the biggest problems with this country: The belief that Americans have that any government-sponsored welfare is evil. Its an idiotic, absurd belief that got implanted into the populace thanks to the Cold War era's US government's propaganda. I could rant on and on about this which I don't feel like doing since I know no one would read it at this point in the thread, so I'll just sum it up this way: There's a big problem in this country when people see government-sponsored health care as a threat to freedom, but see legislation such as the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act of 2006 as protecting it.

As for the whole "you'd have to pay more taxes" argument: we don't have to. The upper class in this country control the majority of the money. I think its something like 1% of the population has 75% of the wealth or something like that (I forget the statistic, and I know that's wrong. just look it up, but what I said gets the idea across). Now call me crazy, but perhaps if we just hiked up the taxes so that the oil company CEO and famous hollywood actor collecting $500 million per year pay, say, 75% of their income to taxes a lot of our money problems as a country would be eliminated? They'd still be rich as hell, just not as rich. It makes a lot more sense than, say, giving them a tax cut and making the middle and especially lower classes pick up the slack instead.