Regarding prayer....

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"]I don't practice religion. By the way, sad attempt at calling me gay And it was really uncalled for. I was stating that no one can take away your right to practice your religion. TheDawnofFlames

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]

[QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"]I have no idea. You should know this, it's your religion. TheDawnofFlames

oh you flaming little troll... religion doesnt condone homosexuality. get the facts strait.

Facepalm? Get over yourself. You still haven't comprehended my points. Shall I try again? Look at what you said:

im not dead set on this being from god you ignorant athiest troll. im simply voicing my opinion by saying that there is no other way my friend could have lived.Neo-ganon

Then yes, you are dead-set on it being God. You just said there is NO OTHER WAY! :lol: Pay attention? :roll:

when all those doctors with their ph.d's diagnosed him with terminal cancer and say that there is no hope for survival, yet he does live, dont you think that there was a higher force at work that had plans for him in the future?Neo-ganon

PH.D's.... there you go again. You're not understanding my earlier point. Why do you trust that docotrs knew so much, with their PH.D's and all, but when your friend heals, I guess the doctors and their PH.D's didn't look so smart huh? THINK. Please, THINK. The doctors could have made a mistake! Just like they did with me. Just like they have with MANY other people. Misdiagnoses are more common that you realize. If you're so sure the doctors were wrong now, why don't you THINK about how they could have just been wrong all along, and your friend was really never in danger? Why you won't think that way? I'll tell you why. Because it would change everything that you already got used to. That's why. :|

No I don' t think there is some God who had a plan for his future. You don't know that either. That's nothing but speculation that not only makes you feel better about yourself, but it doubles as reinforcement for your beliefs which have no basis in reality. It's just a way to stay inside the box as long as possible, and not have to face reality.

God doesnt exist, so prayer is useless!

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]The_Versatile, did it ever occur to you that people pray because they want to? because it makes some people happy? i dont know about you but i know plenty of religious folk who feel very comfortable after prayer. they say its a spiritual connection. why do you discredit prayer if it makes people feel good? if you are talking bad about prayer because it makes people happy knowing that they are on a good level with god, then you might as well talk down on other things that all people do. like eating food. or breathing. like prayer alot of people need those things to live... The_Versatile

thats just the thing, god isnt some "magical fairy" that makes all you problems go away. he is much more than that. you expect god to solve all your problems that you could easily solve yourself, but get mad and become an athiest when he wants you to figure it out.

let me ask you something(hypothetical), if you have kids would you give them everything they want and help them with every little thing? no. they would be spoiled brats who cant do crap by themselves and constantly need help. a real parent would let their kids figure something out on their own. and when they make a mistake or fall down, they pcik themselves up and automatically learn from their mistakes. its how little boys grow up to be real men. its the same exact thing with god but on a much much larger scale.

[QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"][QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"] May I ask what I am supposed to be practicing? Neo-ganon

oh you flaming little troll... religion doesnt condone homosexuality. get the facts strait.

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]

[QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"]I have no idea. You should know this, it's your religion. TheDawnofFlames

oh you flaming little troll... religion doesnt condone homosexuality. get the facts strait.

*Edit* I didn't mean to offend.

Facepalm? Get over yourself. You still haven't comprehended my points. Shall I try again? Look at what you said:

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"] im not dead set on this being from god you ignorant athiest troll. im simply voicing my opinion by saying that there is no other way my friend could have lived.The_Versatile

Then yes, you are dead-set on it being God. You just said there is NO OTHER WAY! :lol: Pay attention? :roll:

when all those doctors with their ph.d's diagnosed him with terminal cancer and say that there is no hope for survival, yet he does live, dont you think that there was a higher force at work that had plans for him in the future?Neo-ganon

PH.D's.... there you go again. You're not understanding my earlier point. Why do you trust that docotrs knew so much, with their PH.D's and all, but when your friend heals, I guess the doctors and their PH.D's didn't look so smart huh? THINK. Please, THINK. The doctors could have made a mistake! Just like they did with me. Just like they have with MANY other people. Misdiagnoses are more common that you realize. If you're so sure the doctors were wrong now, why don't you THINK about how they could have just been wrong all along, and your friend was really never in danger? Why you won't think that way? I'll tell you why. Because it would change everything that you already got used to. That's why. :|

No I don' t think there is some God who had a plan for his future. You don't know that either. That's nothing but speculation that not only makes you feel better about yourself, but it doubles as reinforcement for your beliefs which have no basis in reality. It's just a way to stay inside the box as long as possible, and not have to face reality.

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"] when all those doctors with their ph.d's diagnosed him with terminal cancer and say that there is no hope for survival, yet he does live, dont you think that there was a higher force at work that had plans for him in the future?The_Versatile

im not dead set on this being from god you ignorant athiest troll. im simply voicing my opinion by saying that there is no other way my friend could have lived.Neo-ganon

when all those doctors with their ph.d's diagnosed him with terminal cancer and say that there is no hope for survival, yet he does live, dont you think that there was a higher force at work that had plans for him in the future?Neo-ganon

you are not getting it at all...

the doctors and surgeons had exhausted all other options in an attempt to cure him. that tube in his lungs was the only thing they could do to help delay his inevitable death. as i said, it was an incurable cancer. keyword: incurable. look it up. ergo there really was no other way.

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]

[QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"]I have no idea. You should know this, it's your religion. TheDawnofFlames

oh you flaming little troll... religion doesnt condone homosexuality. get the facts strait.

[QUOTE="TheDawnofFlames"][QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]

oh you flaming little troll... religion doesnt condone homosexuality. get the facts strait.

-TheSocialist-

Ever heard of the fruit?

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"][QUOTE="Neo-ganon"] Facepalm? Get over yourself. You still haven't comprehended my points.Shall I try again? Look at what you said: [QUOTE="Neo-ganon"] im not dead set on this being from god you ignorant athiest troll. im simply voicing my opinion by saying that there is no other way my friend could have lived.Neo-ganon

when all those doctors with their ph.d's diagnosed him with terminal cancer and say that there is no hope for survival, yet he does live, dont you think that there was a higher force at work that had plans for him in the future?Neo-ganon

you are not getting it at all...

the doctors and surgeons had exhausted all other options in an attempt to cure him. that tube in his lungs was the only thing they could do to help delay his inevitable death. as i said, it was an incurable cancer. keyword: incurable. look it up. ergo there really was no other way.

god isnt some "magical fairy" that makes all you problems go away. he is much more than that. Neo-ganon

let me ask you something(hypothetical), if you have kids would you give them everything they want and help them with every little thing? no. they would be spoiled brats who cant do crap by themselves and constantly need help. a real parent would let their kids figure something out on their own. and when they make a mistake or fall down, they pcik themselves up and automatically learn from their mistakes. its how little boys grow up to be real men. its the same exact thing with god but on a much much larger scale. Neo-ganon

Proof? :roll: The_Versatile

Why would it matter? You would just turn it away. Its obvious that your mind is closed to anything that you don't believe.

the doctors and surgeons had exhausted all other options in an attempt to cure him. that tube in his lungs was the only thing they could do to help delay his inevitable death. as i said, it was an incurable cancer. keyword: incurable. look it up. ergo there really was no other way.Neo-ganon

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"] god isnt some "magical fairy" that makes all you problems go away. he is much more than that. The_Versatile

let me ask you something(hypothetical), if you have kids would you give them everything they want and help them with every little thing? no. they would be spoiled brats who cant do crap by themselves and constantly need help. a real parent would let their kids figure something out on their own. and when they make a mistake or fall down, they pcik themselves up and automatically learn from their mistakes. its how little boys grow up to be real men. its the same exact thing with god but on a much much larger scale. Neo-ganon

well god did make us in his own image so... he made us.... he is technically our father.... a father who watches over us like a good parent but lets us get into trouble so we can learn from our own mistakes.

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"] Proof? :roll: Ragnarok1051

Why would it matter? You would just turn it away. Its obvious that your mind is closed to anything that you don't believe.

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]the doctors and surgeons had exhausted all other options in an attempt to cure him. that tube in his lungs was the only thing they could do to help delay his inevitable death. as i said, it was an incurable cancer. keyword: incurable. look it up. ergo there really was no other way.The_Versatile

(sarcasm) oh yeah, gee wiz, it sure is easy to misdiagnose a serious disease, especially when all tests turn up positive.

cmon buddy! who are you trying to prove? its cancer! terminal even! besides even if it was diagnosed to begin with, isnt that already a rare occurence for a doctor to misdiagnose a disease?

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"] Proof? :roll: The_Versatile

Why would it matter? You would just turn it away. Its obvious that your mind is closed to anything that you don't believe.

I think that the idea is that if people come to God with sincerity and good intentions in their heart, they could move his heart to action. If the prayer goes unanswered, then you just kind of take it as God using that to facilitate some greater good, like the whole, "when God closes a door, he opens a window," idea.

I'm no theologian, though, so I would assume there's a better rationale that I'm just not aware of.

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"][QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

Why would it matter? You would just turn it away. Its obvious that your mind is closed to anything that you don't believe.

Ragnarok1051

My mind is open. I'm waiting for your proof. I've only explained to you why I'm skeptical.... but not closed. So do you have the proof or not?

By the way, "My proof is in my faith and that's all I need", doesn't make sense. ;)

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"][QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

Why would it matter? You would just turn it away. Its obvious that your mind is closed to anything that you don't believe.

Ragnarok1051

But thats just it, its faith, there is no proof. you believe it because you were told to do so from a young age

And actually, my mind is open, i was raised under religious dogma. I discovered contradicting evidense and upon further investigation, i found no factual evidense in religion, which is why i left and searched other religions and eventually settled on atheism

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="The_Versatile"] Nope. Proof is hard evidence. Something I couldn't deny no matter how stubborn I am. If you can't come up with any of that, then I'm not even close to being in the wrong for choosing not to believe. Saying my mind is closed is just the way you continue to justify your baseless beliefs. If God is so real, powerful, and immediately recongnizable, and on top of that, YOU are so sure you have the proof, then it should be very simple to reveal it to me, and convince me on the spot. Unless you're just not very good at connecting with your fellow man? And if that's the case.... well, if you can't even connect with your own kind, I'd really have to doubt you could connect with anything greater than human. Your inabilty to reach me with your proof only makes me doubt you and your God even more. You're hurting your God's image and you don't even realize it.-TheSocialist-

But thats just it, its faith, there is no proof. you believe it because you were told to do so from a young age

I'm not young anymore. I still believe. Anything else you would like to add?

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="The_Versatile"] Nope. Proof is hard evidence. Something I couldn't deny no matter how stubborn I am. If you can't come up with any of that, then I'm not even close to being in the wrong for choosing not to believe. Saying my mind is closed is just the way you continue to justify your baseless beliefs. If God is so real, powerful, and immediately recongnizable, and on top of that, YOU are so sure you have the proof, then it should be very simple to reveal it to me, and convince me on the spot. Unless you're just not very good at connecting with your fellow man? And if that's the case.... well, if you can't even connect with your own kind, I'd really have to doubt you could connect with anything greater than human. Your inabilty to reach me with your proof only makes me doubt you and your God even more. You're hurting your God's image and you don't even realize it.The_Versatile

My mind is open. I'm waiting for your proof. I've only explained to you why I'm skeptical.... but not closed. So do you have the proof or not?

By the way, "My proof is in my faith and that's all I need", doesn't make sense. ;)

Your response doesn't surprise me, but that's ok we all don't get it at first.

But thats just it, its faith, there is no proof. you believe it because you were told to do so from a young age

-TheSocialist-

You aware aware that tons of people convert to any given religion when they're well into adulthood?

[QUOTE="-TheSocialist-"]

But thats just it, its faith, there is no proof. you believe it because you were told to do so from a young age

UnrighteousFury

You aware aware that tons of people convert to any given religion when they're well into adulthood?

(sarcasm) oh yeah, gee wiz, it sure is easy to misdiagnose a serious disease, especially when all tests turn up positive.

cmon buddy! who are you trying to prove? its cancer! terminal even! besides even if it was diagnosed to begin with, isnt that already a rare occurence for a doctor to misdiagnose a disease?

Neo-ganon

Why do I get the feeling you're not telling me everything that went on with your friend? No it is not a rare occurence for a doctor to misdiagnose a disease. It happens OFTEN. I've been misdiagnosed. My brother has been misdiagnosed. My dad has been before, a couple friends of mine, one of my friend's fathers, etc. The list goes on. Medicine is not perfect. Doctors are not flawless. And again, I ask, something which still hasn't gotten through to you: If the doctors were wrong in the end, about it being an incurable disease, why did you still think they had it right in the beginning? To use your own words, "it couldn't have been anything else" ....other than a misdiagnosis. Who the hell goes to 10 different doctors anyway? Like maybe the first 9 were lying, so I better get a 10th opinion? I doubt you're telling me the truth anyway. It all sounds kind of shady.

well its 1:30 and i have a physics and stats test tmrw, nice debate, night.-TheSocialist-

Answer me this Neo-ganon, why did God heal your friend, but didn't save the little girl? Among countless others who have prayed and died anyway. It's almost disrepsectful for your friend to act like God saved him over the others, as if he's more special than them. Like when a basketball player is interviewed after a game and they say, "I just thank God I made that shot. god pulled me through." It's highly disrespectful to the other team. It's as if he's saying God likes me and my team better than yours. Yeah, God really gives a crap who wins the game right? :roll:The_Versatile

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"]Answer me this Neo-ganon, why did God heal your friend, but didn't save the little girl? Among countless others who have prayed and died anyway. It's almost disrepsectful for your friend to act like God saved him over the others, as if he's more special than them. Like when a basketball player is interviewed after a game and they say, "I just thank God I made that shot. god pulled me through." It's highly disrespectful to the other team. It's as if he's saying God likes me and my team better than yours. Yeah, God really gives a crap who wins the game right? :roll:Ragnarok1051

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"](sarcasm) oh yeah, gee wiz, it sure is easy to misdiagnose a serious disease, especially when all tests turn up positive.

cmon buddy! who are you trying to prove? its cancer! terminal even! besides even if it was diagnosed to begin with, isnt that already a rare occurence for a doctor to misdiagnose a disease?

The_Versatile

Why do I get the feeling you're not telling me everything that went on with your friend? No it is not a rare occurence for a doctor to misdiagnose a disease. It happens OFTEN. I've been misdiagnosed. My brother has been misdiagnosed. My dad has been before, a couple friends of mine, one of my friend's fathers, etc. The list goes on. Medicine is not perfect. Doctors are not flawless. And again, I ask, something which still hasn't gotten through to you: If the doctors were wrong in the end, about it being an incurable disease, why did you still think they had it right in the beginning? To use your own words, "it couldn't have been anything else" ....other than a misdiagnosis. Who the hell goes to 10 different doctors anyway? Like maybe the first 9 were lying, so I better get a 10th opinion? I doubt you're telling me the truth anyway. It all sounds kind of shady.

ever hear of a second opinion? and yes im telling everything. everything i know anyway. btw, did i mention that he was on life support? and that everytime they took him off, he would suffocate until they put him back on? and that he had seizures from this? yeah, some misdiagnosis ther buddy.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="The_Versatile"]Answer me this Neo-ganon, why did God heal your friend, but didn't save the little girl? Among countless others who have prayed and died anyway. It's almost disrepsectful for your friend to act like God saved him over the others, as if he's more special than them. Like when a basketball player is interviewed after a game and they say, "I just thank God I made that shot. god pulled me through." It's highly disrespectful to the other team. It's as if he's saying God likes me and my team better than yours. Yeah, God really gives a crap who wins the game right? :roll:The_Versatile

you wanna talk about waste of time? how about the time you are wasting dissing religion on gamespot! and fyi, everybody has a purpose in life be it good or bad. my friend who almost died of cancer is one o the greatest people i have ever met. yes i know it sucks that a little girl died, but you know what, dying is a part of life in a world that sucks. thats probably why god let her die, so she wouldnt grow up in a world full of evil ppl and be corrupted. she had her shot but god wanted her out before the **** hits the fan.

ever hear of a second opinion? and yes im telling everything. everything i know anyway. btw, did i mention that he was on life support? and that everytime they took him off, he would suffocate until they put him back on? and that he had seizures from this? yeah, some misdiagnosis ther buddy.Neo-ganon

The conversation between the TC and darkmonkey52 on pages 1 and 2 made my day. Just saying.

I'm hearing a Violent Femmes song. You win absolutely nothing for knowing the answer.

you wanna talk about waste of time? how about the time you are wasting dissing religion on gamespot! Neo-ganon

and fyi, everybody has a purpose in life be it good or bad. Neo-ganon

my friend who almost died of cancer is one o the greatest people i have ever met.Neo-ganon

yes i know it sucks that a little girl died, but you know what, dying is a part of life in a world that sucks. Neo-ganon

thats probably why god let her die, so she wouldnt grow up in a world full of evil ppl and be corrupted. she had her shot but god wanted her out before the **** hits the fan.Neo-ganon

yet when he started praying and going to church more, he was healed in only a few days. I refuse to call that a coinsidence or anything like that. Neo-ganon

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"]yet when he started praying and going to church more, he was healed in only a few days. I refuse to call that a coinsidence or anything like that. The_Versatile

its called the hospital chapel genius. and no i didnt make him up to prove a point. and i never said he was a vegetable either. you can try to convince me otherwise, but i refuse to give up my arguement that he was healed by god.

A point I tried to make in another thread that was deleted for being off topic I suppose.

A user here, of Christian faith, has a tag in his signature asking us to pray for someone who has been stricken with Lukemia. It reads as follows:

Julian Buuck has leukemia. Please, pray for him, that God will heal him

I then asked:

God won't heal him unless we ask? Shows how much God cares about him. Also what if he dies anyway? Then was it God's will for him to die? Then why did everyone pray? And if God's will is for him to live, he'd heal Julian without anyone having to pray for him. Right? Why ever pray, when God will always do what he wants in the end? Praying is futile. Apparently our cries are worthless in the eyes of God, if he always goes with what he wants in the end. Now, if our cries are worthless to him, he must not care about any of us, or for the things we ask of him. So, if that's the case, why should we worship him, or even give him one speck of our time?!?! Just asking.

Now, anyone is free to answer this of course, since I'm not directly asking this particular user anymore. Why is it that people don't use this deducive logic to realize that the function of prayer, as we currently understand it, is completely nonsensical, and useless?

[QUOTE="Neo-ganon"] you wanna talk about waste of time? how about the time you are wasting dissing religion on gamespot! The_Versatile

actually no im not. what im doing is defending religion. i said that you were dissing religion.

and fyi, everybody has a purpose in life be it good or bad. Neo-ganon

my friend who almost died of cancer is one o the greatest people i have ever met.Neo-ganon

actually i didnt make him up. he is a friend of the family. at least 20 other people know him. i can give a link to his myspace if you want.

yes i know it sucks that a little girl died, but you know what, dying is a part of life in a world that sucks. Neo-ganon

how am i supposed to know? how is anybody supposed to know? i dont want to sound redundant or anything, but god does move in mysterious ways.

thats probably why god let her die, so she wouldnt grow up in a world full of evil ppl and be corrupted. she had her shot but god wanted her out before the **** hits the fan.

Neo-ganon

i have given you all the facts i can actually. but you refuse to listen to them. i have already stated that he was on life support, that he had an incurable cancer (of which the doctors couldnt cure in fact it took a team of doctors to try to help him), and that as soon as he started to pray he was healed within days. coincedence? i think not.