http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBKKh0C2eo&feature=player_embedded#!
Ron paul booed at debate for blaming us for 9/11
This topic is locked from further discussion.
The definition of Santorum stands little to the repugnant being that is Rick Santorum.
I feel bad for those who fall for such pathetic pandering. Ace6301Feel worse for those who don't. They have to live under the elected governments of those who do, and they don't even get to taste the Kool-Aid.
well that is true we were the ones that caused 9/11.
Not many people knew that we aided Al- Qaeda when they wet to war with Russia
I just watched right now CNN contributor panelists say Ron Paul has no chance for that comment last night... sigh. I don't know why they have that teabagger women on all the time, well except that she is pretty hot.
I just watched right now CNN contributor panelists say Ron Paul has no chance for that comment last night... sigh. I don't know why they have that teabagger women on all the time, well except that she is pretty hot.
Meat_Wad_Fan
Ron Paul hasn't had a chance since the start. You're really kidding yourself if you thought he did.
[QUOTE="Meat_Wad_Fan"]
I just watched right now CNN contributor panelists say Ron Paul has no chance for that comment last night... sigh. I don't know why they have that teabagger women on all the time, well except that she is pretty hot.
airshocker
Ron Paul hasn't had a chance since the start. You're really kidding yourself if you thought he did.
No I actually knew he never had a chance, it's just aggravating he gets written off for a comment that's basically the truth. They basically said THAT particular comment ruined his chances.
While I disagree with Ron Paul on many, many things he's right about this. Previous US foreign policy is to blame for the state of Afghanistan as it was when 9/11 occurred. These people hate the US more for what they've done than who they are. Also that term "American exceptionalism" is one of the stupidest nationalistic things I've heard in so long. I feel bad for those who fall for such pathetic pandering. Ace6301the only thing that made America "exceptional" was our free enterprise system that is long dead, there is nothing special about our people, only that our people were once free to find and fill a niche of their own in our society without having to work for either the government or a huge corporation.
[QUOTE="airshocker"]
[QUOTE="Meat_Wad_Fan"]
I just watched right now CNN contributor panelists say Ron Paul has no chance for that comment last night... sigh. I don't know why they have that teabagger women on all the time, well except that she is pretty hot.
Meat_Wad_Fan
Ron Paul hasn't had a chance since the start. You're really kidding yourself if you thought he did.
No I actually knew he never had a chance, it's just aggravating he gets written off for a comment that's basically the truth. They basically said THAT particular comment ruined his chances.
the media will say everything and anything he says will ruin his chance... till another person running picks up that policy, then that new person is a visionary.What the hell are you guys talking about? You are weak. If you think your foreign policy is wrong than critizise it all you want. But should they withraw their bases from Saudi just because of threats?? US foreign policy doesn't justify anything like 9/11. And frankly US foreign policy is the best! If you're against it fine, but don't give in to terrorist threats. If you give them your finger they'll eat your arm. And no I'm not republican, I'm european and would be considered left wing compared to democrats!
what are you talking about? rons'position is that we have been acting like dicks the world over for decades, it is expensive, we have no moral grounds to be policing the world and telling people to live our way or else, and it pisses people off, if you piss enough people off at some point youre going to get punched. his position is not that 9/11 or terrorism is justified, or that we should bend to fear, hell he is against the patriot act and the TSA as those actions are bending to fear. we are altering our lives because of threats of violence and giving up personal freedoms and dignity. i dont know where you got your information but you might want to check the horses mouth if you want it to be reliable.What the hell are you guys talking about? You are weak. If you think your foreign policy is wrong than critizise it all you want. But should they withraw their bases from Saudi just because of threats?? US foreign policy doesn't justify anything like 9/11. And frankly US foreign policy is the best! If you're against it fine, but don't give in to terrorist threats. If you give them your finger they'll eat your arm. And no I'm not republican, I'm european and would be considered left wing compared to democrats!
Cow4ever
our current role in international politics is that of Biff from back to the future.
While I disagree with Ron Paul on many, many things he's right about this. Previous US foreign policy is to blame for the state of Afghanistan as it was when 9/11 occurred. These people hate the US more for what they've done than who they are. Ace6301
I think you nailed it - people get so up in arms, but if you look at history, we have made a lot of bad decisions that have led us to where we are now. The US is not blameless for its owncurrent predicament.
what are you talking about? rons'position is that we have been acting like dicks the world over for decades, it is expensive, we have no moral grounds to be policing the world and telling people to live our way or else, and it pisses people off, if you piss enough people off at some point youre going to get punched. his position is not that 9/11 or terrorism is justified, or that we should bend to fear, hell he is against the patriot act and the TSA as those actions are bending to fear. we are altering our lives because of threats of violence and giving up personal freedoms and dignity. i dont know where you got your information but you might want to check the horses mouth if you want it to be reliable.[QUOTE="Cow4ever"]
What the hell are you guys talking about? You are weak. If you think your foreign policy is wrong than critizise it all you want. But should they withraw their bases from Saudi just because of threats?? US foreign policy doesn't justify anything like 9/11. And frankly US foreign policy is the best! If you're against it fine, but don't give in to terrorist threats. If you give them your finger they'll eat your arm. And no I'm not republican, I'm european and would be considered left wing compared to democrats!
surrealnumber5
our current role in international politics is that of Biff from back to the future.
Yes lol you have moral grounds to be policing the world, yes you have. You should tell people how to live their lives. I'm not saying the result is always great but you should try. You want to let people live their lives? Sure see what happens in Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Congo, Sudan etc etc. Oh women are living as slaves in Saudi Arabia. But don't do anything cause they'll get pissed off and punch you in the face! You know what that is? That's egoism. Like Europe, all they do all day is sitting on their asses and talk about diplomacy and talking blah blah blah. Meanwhile in Congo 4 million people are rape-tortured-murdered. You are afraid people'll dislike you and and punch you in the face. That's egoism. You accept the suffering of others to save yourself. Again I'm not saying the Iraq war is just, but IF you support such policies and then change because of threats you are egoistic and coward! One thing if you speak honest and say it's not worth it or too expensive but don't start with that world police crap. There is no country I rather have as world police. I don't know how the patriot act works cause I am not from USA but if it adds security then it's not bending, it's preparing! Bending is changing all you believe in cause you're afraid of punches and people calling you world police. I never seen bttf[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]what are you talking about? rons'position is that we have been acting like dicks the world over for decades, it is expensive, we have no moral grounds to be policing the world and telling people to live our way or else, and it pisses people off, if you piss enough people off at some point youre going to get punched. his position is not that 9/11 or terrorism is justified, or that we should bend to fear, hell he is against the patriot act and the TSA as those actions are bending to fear. we are altering our lives because of threats of violence and giving up personal freedoms and dignity. i dont know where you got your information but you might want to check the horses mouth if you want it to be reliable.[QUOTE="Cow4ever"]
What the hell are you guys talking about? You are weak. If you think your foreign policy is wrong than critizise it all you want. But should they withraw their bases from Saudi just because of threats?? US foreign policy doesn't justify anything like 9/11. And frankly US foreign policy is the best! If you're against it fine, but don't give in to terrorist threats. If you give them your finger they'll eat your arm. And no I'm not republican, I'm european and would be considered left wing compared to democrats!
Cow4ever
our current role in international politics is that of Biff from back to the future.
Yes lol you have moral grounds to be policing the world, yes you have. You should tell people how to live their lives. I'm not saying the result is always great but you should try. You want to let people live their lives? Sure see what happens in Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Congo, Sudan etc etc. Oh women are living as slaves in Saudi Arabia. But don't do anything cause they'll get pissed off and punch you in the face! You know what that is? That's egoism. Like Europe, all they do all day is sitting on their asses and talk about diplomacy and talking blah blah blah. Meanwhile in Congo 4 million people are rape-tortured-murdered. You are afraid people'll dislike you and and punch you in the face. That's egoism. You accept the suffering of others to save yourself. Again I'm not saying the Iraq war is just, but IF you support such policies and then change because of threats you are egoistic and coward! One thing if you speak honest and say it's not worth it or too expensive but don't start with that world police crap. There is no country I rather have as world police. I don't know how the patriot act works cause I am not from USA but if it adds security then it's not bending, it's preparing! Bending is changing all you believe in cause you're afraid of punches and people calling you world police. I never seen bttf ronpaul has been against us being based all around the world since the 80's, this is nothing new, this is not because of any current war or terror threat, he calls for this because he thinks it is right not because of some reactionary fear you wish to impose..... and you seem to be all for dictatorships, i am not, i am all for people freely living their lives as long as they dont harm others. our governments job is to enforce the rule of law in our nation where our laws apply. other nations have their governments that they support, if the people dont support the government then they should over throw it. that is there way of life our job is to protect our way of life and not to dictate to others outside of our lands. you think america should be an empire in fact, if not in name, as that is what you just described. i think america should be its own nation and not the world. i agree with ron, you do not. this nataion was once great because people were free to seek their own fortune but because of the uniform living system you are espousing here, free enterprise is all but dead and america is all but bankrupt. doing one thing one way lead to the stagnate corporatist nanny state we have today,and it seems to be just what you want.Yes lol you have moral grounds to be policing the world, yes you have. You should tell people how to live their lives. I'm not saying the result is always great but you should try. You want to let people live their lives? Sure see what happens in Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Congo, Sudan etc etc. Oh women are living as slaves in Saudi Arabia. But don't do anything cause they'll get pissed off and punch you in the face! You know what that is? That's egoism. Like Europe, all they do all day is sitting on their asses and talk about diplomacy and talking blah blah blah. Meanwhile in Congo 4 million people are rape-tortured-murdered. You are afraid people'll dislike you and and punch you in the face. That's egoism. You accept the suffering of others to save yourself. Again I'm not saying the Iraq war is just, but IF you support such policies and then change because of threats you are egoistic and coward! One thing if you speak honest and say it's not worth it or too expensive but don't start with that world police crap. There is no country I rather have as world police. I don't know how the patriot act works cause I am not from USA but if it adds security then it's not bending, it's preparing! Bending is changing all you believe in cause you're afraid of punches and people calling you world police. I never seen bttf ronpaul has been against us being based all around the world since the 80's, this is nothing new, this is not because of any current war or terror threat, he calls for this because he thinks it is right not because of some reactionary fear you wish to impose..... and you seem to be all for dictatorships, i am not, i am all for people freely living their lives as long as they dont harm others. out governments job is to enforce the rule of law in our nation where our laws apply. other nations have their governments that they support, if the people dont support the government then they should over throw it. that is there way of life our job is to protect our way of life and not to dictate to others outside of our lands. you think america should be an empire in fact, if not in name, as that is what you just described. i think america should be its own nation and not the world. i agree with ron, you do not. this nataion was once great because people were free to seek their own fortune but because of the uniform living system you are espousing here, free enterprise is all but dead and america is all but bankrupt. doing one thing one way lead to the stagnate corporatist nanny state we have today,and it seems to be just what you want.[QUOTE="Cow4ever"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] what are you talking about? rons'position is that we have been acting like dicks the world over for decades, it is expensive, we have no moral grounds to be policing the world and telling people to live our way or else, and it pisses people off, if you piss enough people off at some point youre going to get punched. his position is not that 9/11 or terrorism is justified, or that we should bend to fear, hell he is against the patriot act and the TSA as those actions are bending to fear. we are altering our lives because of threats of violence and giving up personal freedoms and dignity. i dont know where you got your information but you might want to check the horses mouth if you want it to be reliable.
our current role in international politics is that of Biff from back to the future.
surrealnumber5
So what you're saying is that it's ok to commit a rape-torture-genocide of 4 million people as long as you don't do anything to YOUR country? Yes you sound very egoistic indeed. I'm the only one here truly against dictatorship. You think it's ok for women to be slaves in Saudi Arabia just because they live outside USA? What you're pretty much saying is that your principle of not "dictating others" should come at the cost of millions and millions of people. I don't care which country I live in or you it's not ok to whip a woman because she was in the front seat of a car!! That's not ok regardless of which country you live in. And you speak of overthrowing a government as if it was an easy thing. Gadhafi, Talibans and Saddam would still be the rulers withouth US and NATO. I guess the 4 million in Congo that where rape-tortured-murdered was ok since they hadn't overthrown the government or 5 million voted against them.
No I don't, I don't think of this only America but the entire western world! The thing is the US is the only ones doing anything. I think the whole Western World should enforce democracy and stop genocide and apartheid with any means neccesary! Military if needed!
And the rest of your comment I don't understand a thing I am not talking about your domestic policy here. I never said I agree with your domestic policy.
Santorum should stfu. He's a typical politician playing with the people's emotions to further his agenda. Do people really believe countries hate us because we're free and our **** doesn't stink?
ronpaul has been against us being based all around the world since the 80's, this is nothing new, this is not because of any current war or terror threat, he calls for this because he thinks it is right not because of some reactionary fear you wish to impose..... and you seem to be all for dictatorships, i am not, i am all for people freely living their lives as long as they dont harm others. out governments job is to enforce the rule of law in our nation where our laws apply. other nations have their governments that they support, if the people dont support the government then they should over throw it. that is there way of life our job is to protect our way of life and not to dictate to others outside of our lands. you think america should be an empire in fact, if not in name, as that is what you just described. i think america should be its own nation and not the world. i agree with ron, you do not. this nataion was once great because people were free to seek their own fortune but because of the uniform living system you are espousing here, free enterprise is all but dead and america is all but bankrupt. doing one thing one way lead to the stagnate corporatist nanny state we have today,and it seems to be just what you want.[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]
[QUOTE="Cow4ever"] Yes lol you have moral grounds to be policing the world, yes you have. You should tell people how to live their lives. I'm not saying the result is always great but you should try. You want to let people live their lives? Sure see what happens in Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Congo, Sudan etc etc. Oh women are living as slaves in Saudi Arabia. But don't do anything cause they'll get pissed off and punch you in the face! You know what that is? That's egoism. Like Europe, all they do all day is sitting on their asses and talk about diplomacy and talking blah blah blah. Meanwhile in Congo 4 million people are rape-tortured-murdered. You are afraid people'll dislike you and and punch you in the face. That's egoism. You accept the suffering of others to save yourself. Again I'm not saying the Iraq war is just, but IF you support such policies and then change because of threats you are egoistic and coward! One thing if you speak honest and say it's not worth it or too expensive but don't start with that world police crap. There is no country I rather have as world police. I don't know how the patriot act works cause I am not from USA but if it adds security then it's not bending, it's preparing! Bending is changing all you believe in cause you're afraid of punches and people calling you world police. I never seen bttfCow4ever
So what you're saying is that it's ok to commit a rape-torture-genocide of 4 million people as long as you don't do anything to YOUR country? Yes you sound very egoistic indeed. I'm the only one here truly against dictatorship. You think it's ok for women to be slaves in Saudi Arabia just because they live outside USA? What you're pretty much saying is that your principle of not "dictating others" should come at the cost of millions and millions of people. I don't care which country I live in or you it's not ok to whip a woman because she was in the front seat of a car!! That's not ok regardless of which country you live in. And you speak of overthrowing a government as if it was an easy thing. Gadhafi, Talibans and Saddam would still be the rulers withouth US and NATO. I guess the 4 million in Congo that where rape-tortured-murdered was ok since they hadn't overthrown the government or 5 million voted against them.
No I don't, I don't think of this only America but the entire western world! The thing is the US is the only ones doing anything. I think the whole Western World should enforce democracy and stop genocide and apartheid with any means neccesary! Military if needed!
And the rest of your comment I don't understand a thing I am not talking about your domestic policy here. I never said I agree with your domestic policy.
The problem is that the US doesn't always want to help for the sake of the people. They usually want to impose and manipulate to get some benefit. I don't think they have moral authority judging by their actions. And besides many of the problems in Africa stem from many years of european countries meddling there and imposing their western view of civilization. You just can't take a whole culture mostly based on hunter gatherer societies, enslave its people and treat them as inferior and then expect them to become industrialized first world countries and accept what you bring to them as "civilization". The western meddling in the world has caused much much much more harm than good IMO. I'm not even sure it can be stopped now but it would be nice to try.
I can't believe they booed him, he was being completely reasonable and logical...guess that is what happens when you use your brain amidst diehard conservatives and nationalists. And Santorum? Shame shame shame....
[QUOTE="Cow4ever"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] ronpaul has been against us being based all around the world since the 80's, this is nothing new, this is not because of any current war or terror threat, he calls for this because he thinks it is right not because of some reactionary fear you wish to impose..... and you seem to be all for dictatorships, i am not, i am all for people freely living their lives as long as they dont harm others. out governments job is to enforce the rule of law in our nation where our laws apply. other nations have their governments that they support, if the people dont support the government then they should over throw it. that is there way of life our job is to protect our way of life and not to dictate to others outside of our lands. you think america should be an empire in fact, if not in name, as that is what you just described. i think america should be its own nation and not the world. i agree with ron, you do not. this nataion was once great because people were free to seek their own fortune but because of the uniform living system you are espousing here, free enterprise is all but dead and america is all but bankrupt. doing one thing one way lead to the stagnate corporatist nanny state we have today,and it seems to be just what you want.
kuraimen
So what you're saying is that it's ok to commit a rape-torture-genocide of 4 million people as long as you don't do anything to YOUR country? Yes you sound very egoistic indeed. I'm the only one here truly against dictatorship. You think it's ok for women to be slaves in Saudi Arabia just because they live outside USA? What you're pretty much saying is that your principle of not "dictating others" should come at the cost of millions and millions of people. I don't care which country I live in or you it's not ok to whip a woman because she was in the front seat of a car!! That's not ok regardless of which country you live in. And you speak of overthrowing a government as if it was an easy thing. Gadhafi, Talibans and Saddam would still be the rulers withouth US and NATO. I guess the 4 million in Congo that where rape-tortured-murdered was ok since they hadn't overthrown the government or 5 million voted against them.
No I don't, I don't think of this only America but the entire western world! The thing is the US is the only ones doing anything. I think the whole Western World should enforce democracy and stop genocide and apartheid with any means neccesary! Military if needed!
And the rest of your comment I don't understand a thing I am not talking about your domestic policy here. I never said I agree with your domestic policy.
The problem is that the US doesn't always want to help for the sake of the people. They usually want to impose and manipulate to get some benefit. I don't think they have moral authority judging by their actions. And besides many of the problems in Africa stem from many years of european countries meddling there and imposing their western view of civilization. You just can't take a whole culture mostly based on hunter gatherer societies, enslave its people and treat them as inferior and then expect them to become industrialized first world countries and accept what you bring to them as "civilization". The western meddling in the world has caused much much much more harm than good IMO. I'm not even sure it can be stopped now but it would be nice to try. Well I think that can be discussed but it isn't my point. I'm just saying regardless which country you live in you have to think about the people beyond your border. For example Afghanistan. What I am saying is we should do all it takes to enforce democracy and freedom. And I rather see we try and fail then not try at all. Afghanistan for example the issue isn't solved and lots of people have died. But I still think it was moral, the way they treated women and others are just sick. I know this was in US interest after 9/11 but still I wouldn't want anyone to leave and let the Taliban take power again. But yes I agree western colonialism was a major problem and cause of most of this. Still I don't think it's the same thing. Stopping a genocide with military means for example is different from completely occupy a country, exploit all its resources and make the citizens slave. It's rather the opposite. If anything we should make up for this mistake.[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Cow4ever"]The problem is that the US doesn't always want to help for the sake of the people. They usually want to impose and manipulate to get some benefit. I don't think they have moral authority judging by their actions. And besides many of the problems in Africa stem from many years of european countries meddling there and imposing their western view of civilization. You just can't take a whole culture mostly based on hunter gatherer societies, enslave its people and treat them as inferior and then expect them to become industrialized first world countries and accept what you bring to them as "civilization". The western meddling in the world has caused much much much more harm than good IMO. I'm not even sure it can be stopped now but it would be nice to try. Well I think that can be discussed but it isn't my point. I'm just saying regardless which country you live in you have to think about the people beyond your border. For example Afghanistan. What I am saying is we should do all it takes to enforce democracy and freedom. And I rather see we try and fail then not try at all. Afghanistan for example the issue isn't solved and lots of people have died. But I still think it was moral, the way they treated women and others are just sick. I know this was in US interest after 9/11 but still I wouldn't want anyone to leave and let the Taliban take power again. But yes I agree western colonialism was a major problem and cause of most of this. Still I don't think it's the same thing. Stopping a genocide with military means for example is different from completely occupy a country, exploit all its resources and make the citizens slave. It's rather the opposite. If anything we should make up for this mistake. there is no way an outsider can fix internal issues, there is no way for outsiders to change cultural norms, and it is doing just those things that got america to where it is on the world stage. all of the good intentions in the world amount to nothing good if only death and more political instability comes from it. how many governments need to be overthrown and countries tossed into turmoil with leaders worse than what they had placed into power by us does it take before the lesson is learned. yes world peace is a nice thought, but you cant force it on people with guns and bombs....So what you're saying is that it's ok to commit a rape-torture-genocide of 4 million people as long as you don't do anything to YOUR country? Yes you sound very egoistic indeed. I'm the only one here truly against dictatorship. You think it's ok for women to be slaves in Saudi Arabia just because they live outside USA? What you're pretty much saying is that your principle of not "dictating others" should come at the cost of millions and millions of people. I don't care which country I live in or you it's not ok to whip a woman because she was in the front seat of a car!! That's not ok regardless of which country you live in. And you speak of overthrowing a government as if it was an easy thing. Gadhafi, Talibans and Saddam would still be the rulers withouth US and NATO. I guess the 4 million in Congo that where rape-tortured-murdered was ok since they hadn't overthrown the government or 5 million voted against them.
No I don't, I don't think of this only America but the entire western world! The thing is the US is the only ones doing anything. I think the whole Western World should enforce democracy and stop genocide and apartheid with any means neccesary! Military if needed!
And the rest of your comment I don't understand a thing I am not talking about your domestic policy here. I never said I agree with your domestic policy.
Cow4ever
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Cow4ever"]The problem is that the US doesn't always want to help for the sake of the people. They usually want to impose and manipulate to get some benefit. I don't think they have moral authority judging by their actions. And besides many of the problems in Africa stem from many years of european countries meddling there and imposing their western view of civilization. You just can't take a whole culture mostly based on hunter gatherer societies, enslave its people and treat them as inferior and then expect them to become industrialized first world countries and accept what you bring to them as "civilization". The western meddling in the world has caused much much much more harm than good IMO. I'm not even sure it can be stopped now but it would be nice to try. Well I think that can be discussed but it isn't my point. I'm just saying regardless which country you live in you have to think about the people beyond your border. For example Afghanistan. What I am saying is we should do all it takes to enforce democracy and freedom. And I rather see we try and fail then not try at all. Afghanistan for example the issue isn't solved and lots of people have died. But I still think it was moral, the way they treated women and others are just sick. I know this was in US interest after 9/11 but still I wouldn't want anyone to leave and let the Taliban take power again. But yes I agree western colonialism was a major problem and cause of most of this. Still I don't think it's the same thing. Stopping a genocide with military means for example is different from completely occupy a country, exploit all its resources and make the citizens slave. It's rather the opposite. If anything we should make up for this mistake.So what you're saying is that it's ok to commit a rape-torture-genocide of 4 million people as long as you don't do anything to YOUR country? Yes you sound very egoistic indeed. I'm the only one here truly against dictatorship. You think it's ok for women to be slaves in Saudi Arabia just because they live outside USA? What you're pretty much saying is that your principle of not "dictating others" should come at the cost of millions and millions of people. I don't care which country I live in or you it's not ok to whip a woman because she was in the front seat of a car!! That's not ok regardless of which country you live in. And you speak of overthrowing a government as if it was an easy thing. Gadhafi, Talibans and Saddam would still be the rulers withouth US and NATO. I guess the 4 million in Congo that where rape-tortured-murdered was ok since they hadn't overthrown the government or 5 million voted against them.
No I don't, I don't think of this only America but the entire western world! The thing is the US is the only ones doing anything. I think the whole Western World should enforce democracy and stop genocide and apartheid with any means neccesary! Military if needed!
And the rest of your comment I don't understand a thing I am not talking about your domestic policy here. I never said I agree with your domestic policy.
Cow4ever
I would support an international force comprised of ALL countries in the world that is there to stop things like genocide but ONLY if it is guaranteed not to be following any political or economical interest by its most powerful members. I don't think the UN applies for that as it is since it is now pretty much a political tool.
lol @ Paul. He doesn't even know that terrorists attacked us because they hate freedom. It's like Palin and Paul Revere all over again, except, you know, the opposite.:|
This guys is very brave to put this kind of view into debate, specially in a political debate, since they are far from being rational at any level.Even though this kind of stance isn't politcaly favorable to any government, the politicians themselves need to have, even if it is at closed doors, that capacity of rationalization. Imo, most current foreign problems of the USA comes from a deep misunderstanding, misinterpretation of several cultural and political factors. With political allies like those in the middle-east, they don't need any enemies at all.
There is not 1 Republican running for President that has any idea what they are talking about.
Perry thinks Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Ron Paul blames us for 9/11.
Bachmann thinks you can "Cure" gay people.
Romney trashes Obamacare after voting for Socialized Healthcare in his own state.
Santorum doesn't make any sense on any issue whatsoever.
...
Yea, I'm slightly disappointed in Obama too. But do you really want to see him replaced by any of these idiots?
I'm willing to weather this economic storm and see what the American Jobs Bill does first. Then I'll go to Plan B*
*Plan B - burn down DC and start over again in a Log Cabin.
There is not 1 Republican running for President that has any idea what they are talking about.
Perry thinks Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Ron Paul blames us for 9/11.
Bachmann thinks you can "Cure" gay people.
Romney trashes Obamacare after voting for Socialized Healthcare in his own state.
Santorum doesn't make any sense on any issue whatsoever.
...
Yea, I'm slightly disappointed in Obama too. But do you really want to see him replaced by any of these idiots?
I'm willing to weather this economic storm and see what the American Jobs Bill does first. Then I'll go to Plan B*
*Plan B - burn down DC and start over again in a Log Cabin.
Netherscourge
So what your saying when it comes to Ron Paul is the hatred by the Middle East towards the West has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact the West has interfered and controlled that region for 100 years?
He seemed totally right to me, maybe all the crowd are just patriotic americans who can't admit it?
While I disagree with Ron Paul on many, many things he's right about this. Previous US foreign policy is to blame for the state of Afghanistan as it was when 9/11 occurred. These people hate the US more for what they've done than who they are. Also that term "American exceptionalism" is one of the stupidest nationalistic things I've heard in so long. I feel bad for those who fall for such pathetic pandering. Ace6301Well said
There is a fair amount of truth to what he says, and he will not win the nomination in part because he does say it.
Here is part of a Bin Laden speech, notice the lack of "Hate freedom and women in the workplace".
The one guy that actually reads and study about the situation in the middle east gets booed.Osama bin Laden's grievances from his 1998 fatwa entitled, "Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders":
"First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.
Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.
So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.
Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula."
There is not 1 Republican running for President that has any idea what they are talking about.
Perry thinks Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.
Ron Paul blames us for 9/11.
Bachmann thinks you can "Cure" gay people.
Romney trashes Obamacare after voting for Socialized Healthcare in his own state.
Santorum doesn't make any sense on any issue whatsoever.
...
Yea, I'm slightly disappointed in Obama too. But do you really want to see him replaced by any of these idiots?
I'm willing to weather this economic storm and see what the American Jobs Bill does first. Then I'll go to Plan B*
*Plan B - burn down DC and start over again in a Log Cabin.
Netherscourge
You forgot about Huntsman.
Below is Ron Paul back in 1998 warning the U.S. that Americas actions overseas is what causes terrorist attacks.
the video
m25105
He did call it.
[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]what are you talking about? rons'position is that we have been acting like dicks the world over for decades, it is expensive, we have no moral grounds to be policing the world and telling people to live our way or else, and it pisses people off, if you piss enough people off at some point youre going to get punched. his position is not that 9/11 or terrorism is justified, or that we should bend to fear, hell he is against the patriot act and the TSA as those actions are bending to fear. we are altering our lives because of threats of violence and giving up personal freedoms and dignity. i dont know where you got your information but you might want to check the horses mouth if you want it to be reliable.[QUOTE="Cow4ever"]
What the hell are you guys talking about? You are weak. If you think your foreign policy is wrong than critizise it all you want. But should they withraw their bases from Saudi just because of threats?? US foreign policy doesn't justify anything like 9/11. And frankly US foreign policy is the best! If you're against it fine, but don't give in to terrorist threats. If you give them your finger they'll eat your arm. And no I'm not republican, I'm european and would be considered left wing compared to democrats!
Cow4ever
our current role in international politics is that of Biff from back to the future.
Yes lol you have moral grounds to be policing the world, yes you have. You should tell people how to live their lives. I'm not saying the result is always great but you should try. You want to let people live their lives? Sure see what happens in Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Congo, Sudan etc etc. Oh women are living as slaves in Saudi Arabia. But don't do anything cause they'll get pissed off and punch you in the face! You know what that is? That's egoism. Like Europe, all they do all day is sitting on their asses and talk about diplomacy and talking blah blah blah. Meanwhile in Congo 4 million people are rape-tortured-murdered. You are afraid people'll dislike you and and punch you in the face. That's egoism. You accept the suffering of others to save yourself. Again I'm not saying the Iraq war is just, but IF you support such policies and then change because of threats you are egoistic and coward! One thing if you speak honest and say it's not worth it or too expensive but don't start with that world police crap. There is no country I rather have as world police. I don't know how the patriot act works cause I am not from USA but if it adds security then it's not bending, it's preparing! Bending is changing all you believe in cause you're afraid of punches and people calling you world police. I never seen bttfYour argument would make sense if the US has actually been so kind to do something other than talk if its not in its interest. In the few countries you listed, the US has frankly done nothing positive and if anything, actually detrimental
Rwanda - massacres and war crimes of unimaginable scale and US never intervened or even sent any peacekeepers
Saudi Arabia - One of America's best allies even though they just stopped a popular coup in Bahrain and the Saudi kingdom is still a theocracy that bars women from driving and stones them for dating
Iran - Theocratic with a crazy leader but the US obviously can't do anything and hasn't done anything. In fact, its the US that caused this regime's rise because of the support of the dictatorial Shah in the 1970s who the Iranians toppled.
Congo- Again US never intervened and did little besides criticisms from the state department
Sudan - similar to that of Congo and Rwanda, US never intervened, did absolutely nothing while people were getting massacred during its civil war
Ron Paul really has a point. If the US is really the fair and moral superpower, it would have done things not in its interest to protect people but it only does things in its interest and historically has always been short-sighted in its policies (i.e. supporting Taliban against the Russians, bringing up Saddam against the Iranians, attacking Iraq thinking it would be a quick win, etc). Thus, its policies like these and hypocrisy that brings so much hate to America.
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