Ron paul booed at debate for blaming us for 9/11

He didn't blame us, he stated the reasons Bin Laden said he staged 9/11 (bases in Saudi Arabia and help to Israel). Facts seem to upset tea party people, who seem to prefer Bush's child-like explanation, "They hate us for our freedom." The US government and media keeps America in the dark, and if you shatter the illusion of propaganda for the unwashed masses, they get very, very angry. 9/11 is just blowback from many years of the US's middle-eastern shennanigens, and anybody that finds that threatening is simply ignorant of the facts. donalbane

Sounds like an appeasement policy to me. -Sun_Tzu-

It would sound like appeasement if the US had no dealings with the Middle East.. But the West for the past 90 years (since really after WW1) has screwed the Middle East in so many ways.. Do people honestly think they burn US flags in the Middle East because they hate us for our freedoms? Or is it because the dictator thats in power tramping down on them was installed/supported by the US.. Or could it be half their family was pasted by bombs dropped by the West in one war or another.. Or could it be that the US still unquestioningly supports one side in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a side that continues to go down in a aggressive path of land hostility.. This isn't suggesting some do that, but the fact of the matter is the terrorist don't have to go far to kill some one that is more "free then them".. And I am going to vomit if I ever hear more about American Exceptionalism.. This isn't directed towards you Sun_Tzu.. But how can one be exceptional if one is not the most critical of their OWN actions.. This American Exceptionalism claim seems to be a walking contradiction of it self..

[QUOTE="donalbane"]He didn't blame us, he stated the reasons Bin Laden said he staged 9/11 (bases in Saudi Arabia and help to Israel). Facts seem to upset tea party people, who seem to prefer Bush's child-like explanation, "They hate us for our freedom." The US government and media keeps America in the dark, and if you shatter the illusion of propaganda for the unwashed masses, they get very, very angry. 9/11 is just blowback from many years of the US's middle-eastern shennanigens, and anybody that finds that threatening is simply ignorant of the facts. surrealnumber5

I respect Ron Paul and all, espeically when it comes to foriegn policy.. But his domestic stand to me is just too extreme and basically wants to completely rewrite history of Modern America in policies..

So I'm confused as to why they started booing him. I don't always agree with Ron Paul, but he makes a VERY good point here. It's truthful, honest, and sensible, and no one in the audience seems to want to hear it. *sigh* Is there any hope for America?

Thats your typical Fox News spoon fed crowd.

So I'm confused as to why they started booing him. I don't always agree with Ron Paul, but he makes a VERY good point here. It's truthful honest, and sensible, and no one in the audience seems to want to hear it. *sigh* Is there any hope for America?RACiEP

because these tea-party people seem to think Americans are Jesus' grand gift to mankind... they view themselves in such high regard, and as exceptional... they viewthose in the middle eastas dirty, jealous, and evil. so of course they will buy in to the nonsense, rather than listening to logic.

This just goes to prove that if there is one thing republicans hate, it is those that make sense. Damn you Ron Paul and your logical thought process!

[QUOTE="RACiEP"]So I'm confused as to why they started booing him. I don't always agree with Ron Paul, but he makes a VERY good point here. It's truthful honest, and sensible, and no one in the audience seems to want to hear it. *sigh* Is there any hope for America?Scoob64

because these tea-party people think Americans are Jesus' grand gift to mankind... they view themselves in such high regard, and as exceptional... they viewthose in the middle eastas dirty, jealous, and evil. so of course they will buy in to the nonsense, rather than listening to logic.

I was also very disapointed how little time Ron Paul got last night. Media already doesn't give him enough coverage as it is.

[QUOTE="Scoob64"]

[QUOTE="RACiEP"]So I'm confused as to why they started booing him. I don't always agree with Ron Paul, but he makes a VERY good point here. It's truthful honest, and sensible, and no one in the audience seems to want to hear it. *sigh* Is there any hope for America?RACiEP

because these tea-party people think Americans are Jesus' grand gift to mankind... they view themselves in such high regard, and as exceptional... they viewthose in the middle eastas dirty, jealous, and evil. so of course they will buy in to the nonsense, rather than listening to logic.

Most likely the same group of people in a earlier debate that exploded in cheering when the host in a question said that Perry had executed a record amount of people.

[QUOTE="Scoob64"]

[QUOTE="RACiEP"]So I'm confused as to why they started booing him. I don't always agree with Ron Paul, but he makes a VERY good point here. It's truthful honest, and sensible, and no one in the audience seems to want to hear it. *sigh* Is there any hope for America?RACiEP

because these tea-party people think Americans are Jesus' grand gift to mankind... they view themselves in such high regard, and as exceptional... they viewthose in the middle eastas dirty, jealous, and evil. so of course they will buy in to the nonsense, rather than listening to logic.

well, the reason so many believe this is because thats what they've been told everyday since 9/11...that the reason we were attacked is because we are wealthy, free, and American. so the media has sold that product quite convincingly to those ignorant enough to buy in to such nonsense. a traumatic event like 9/11 will cause people to think with their emotions rather than with logic...

Ron Paul. What a joker.

Ron Paul. What a joker.

DroidPhysX

Why so serious?

Most likely the same group of people in a earlier debate that exploded in cheering when the host in a question said that Perry had executed a record amount of people.

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Most likely the same group of people in a earlier debate that exploded in cheering when the host in a question said that Perry had executed a record amount of people.

RACiEP

well, the reason so many believe this is because thats what they've been told everyday since 9/11...that the reason we were attacked is because we are wealthy, free, and American. so the media has sold that product quite convincingly to those ignorant enough to buy in to such nonsense. a traumatic event like 9/11 will cause people to think with their emotions rather than with logic...

Scoob64

Ron Paul. What a joker.

DroidPhysX

I'm not sure if you are kidding or not, but Ron Paul was spot on with this one. Bin Laden wrote out why he coordinated 9/11 and declared a jihad on us. It's word for word. We have been interfering since the 1950's and have had over seas bases. Bush was the first one to start this whole "because they hate freedom and democracy that America enjoys" thing. He most likely said it to get the people's support on this "war on terror" and thats exactly what he did. Media repeated the same thing over and over again until its beat in to the people's minds and he had our support.

Here is a link to the real reason why we were attacked: http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/al-qaeda/bin-laden-message.htm

[QUOTE="Scoob64"]

well, the reason so many believe this is because thats what they've been told everyday since 9/11...that the reason we were attacked is because we are wealthy, free, and American. so the media has sold that product quite convincingly to those ignorant enough to buy in to such nonsense. a traumatic event like 9/11 will cause people to think with their emotions rather than with logic...

RACiEP

It's not even America's intelligence. America has media run by private corporations that can tell us what they want. According to the first Russian communist manifesto , Media and education are 2 of the most important keys to communisim. If people are taught all there lives that communism is good then anything that challenges belief in the community destroys its self by the people. When you are fed something so much, any other belief seems very radical. I think the same thing can be applied to private news corporations like Fox. It's exactly why Ron Paul has a hard time. You can be a very intelligent human being but if you are getting your news and information from one (often biased) source... then I don't think I have to elaborate.

Also note that America doesn't have a government run source of information like BBC news. Media decides who gets coverage and whatnot.

Also income tax is another key to communism but I'm not even going into that lol.

It kind of scares me how much influence and following he has, he has lots of great ideas but they are outweighed by many of his radicial views

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Sounds like an appeasement policy to me. sSubZerOo

It would sound like appeasement if the US had no dealings with the Middle East.. But the West for the past 90 years (since really after WW1) has screwed the Middle East in so many ways.. Do people honestly think they burn US flags in the Middle East because they hate us for our freedoms? Or is it because the dictator thats in power tramping down on them was installed/supported by the US.. Or could it be half their family was pasted by bombs dropped by the West in one war or another.. Or could it be that the US still unquestioningly supports one side in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a side that continues to go down in a aggressive path of land hostility.. This isn't suggesting some do that, but the fact of the matter is the terrorist don't have to go far to kill some one that is more "free then them".. And I am going to vomit if I ever hear more about American Exceptionalism.. This isn't directed towards you Sun_Tzu.. But how can one be exceptional if one is not the most critical of their OWN actions.. This American Exceptionalism claim seems to be a walking contradiction of it self..

Osama Bin Laden never cared about the Palestinian cause. He never believed in the right of self-determination for Palestinians. He never cared about the young Iraqi shiite children who died in the 90's as a result of US sanctions. The only reason why he was opposed to US influence in the region is because that influence gets in the way of the creation of the new caliphate that Al Qaeda desires. That's what they're ultimately fighting for. The people who attacked us on 9/11 believed that they were holy warriors fighting a cosmic war for the creation of a global caliphate. You can't negotiate with that. You can't comply with those demands. If tomorrow, the US stopped all support for Israel, that would not satisfy Al Qaeda. They aren't simply against US support of Israel. They aren't even just against the existence of a Jewish state. They are against the existence of Jews. Osama Bin Laden went so far to proclaim in 2002 that he will not stop attacking the US until we stop doing things like tolerating homosexuality, Jewish people and women rights.

I watched with transcribe audio on and I liked it better.

Ugh, I hate them all.

I think he is partially right, our actions in the middle east have led to a rise in support for various terrorist organizations. I don't believe however that these terrorist organizations would simply go away with we withdraw from the middle east. Most of the anger directed at the United States is coming from people who don't like the fact that the United States is acting as a power player in a region that they want more power in. Al Qaeda didn't attacked the United States because they care about Iraq or Palestine, they did it because the United States was using its influence against Al Qaeda in the region.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Sounds like an appeasement policy to me. -Sun_Tzu-

It would sound like appeasement if the US had no dealings with the Middle East.. But the West for the past 90 years (since really after WW1) has screwed the Middle East in so many ways.. Do people honestly think they burn US flags in the Middle East because they hate us for our freedoms? Or is it because the dictator thats in power tramping down on them was installed/supported by the US.. Or could it be half their family was pasted by bombs dropped by the West in one war or another.. Or could it be that the US still unquestioningly supports one side in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a side that continues to go down in a aggressive path of land hostility.. This isn't suggesting some do that, but the fact of the matter is the terrorist don't have to go far to kill some one that is more "free then them".. And I am going to vomit if I ever hear more about American Exceptionalism.. This isn't directed towards you Sun_Tzu.. But how can one be exceptional if one is not the most critical of their OWN actions.. This American Exceptionalism claim seems to be a walking contradiction of it self..

Osama Bin Laden never cared about the Palestinian cause. He never believed in the right of self-determination for Palestinians. He never cared about the young Iraqi shiite children who died in the 90's as a result of US sanctions. The only reason why he was opposed to US influence in the region is because that influence gets in the way of the creation of the new caliphate that Al Qaeda desires. That's what they're ultimately fighting for. The people who attacked us on 9/11 believed that they were holy warriors fighting a cosmic war for the creation of a global caliphate. You can't negotiate with that. You can't comply with those demands. If tomorrow, the US stopped all support for Israel, that would not satisfy Al Qaeda. They aren't simply against US support of Israel. They aren't even just against the existence of a Jewish state. They are against the existence of Jews. Osama Bin Laden went so far to proclaim in 2002 that he will not stop attacking the US until we stop doing things like tolerating homosexuality, Jewish people and women rights.

It kind of scares me how much influence and following he has, he has lots of great ideas but they are outweighed by many of his radicial views

fueled-system

[QUOTE="fueled-system"]

It kind of scares me how much influence and following he has, he has lots of great ideas but they are outweighed by many of his radicial views

mingmao3046

I would like to know this too. I hear this so often but no one ever cares to elaborate.

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"][QUOTE="fueled-system"]

It kind of scares me how much influence and following he has, he has lots of great ideas but they are outweighed by many of his radicial views

Pikdum

I would like to know this too. I hear this so often but no one ever cares to elaborate.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

Ron Paul. What a joker.

Pikdum

I'm not sure if you are kidding or not, but Ron Paul was spot on with this one. Bin Laden wrote out why he coordinated 9/11 and declared a jihad on us. It's word for word. We have been interfering since the 1950's and have had over seas bases. Bush was the first one to start this whole "because they hate freedom and democracy that America enjoys" thing. He most likely said it to get the people's support on this "war on terror" and thats exactly what he did. Media repeated the same thing over and over again until its beat in to the people's minds and he had our support.

Here is a link to the real reason why we were attacked: http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/al-qaeda/bin-laden-message.htm

[QUOTE="Pikdum"]

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"] such as what radical views? bringing america back to what its meant to be? RACiEP

I would like to know this too. I hear this so often but no one ever cares to elaborate.

Bringing America back includes but is not limited to:

• Elimination of Miranda rights
• Elimination of right to an attorney
• Elimination of exclusionary evidence
• Elimination of incorporation of bill of rights to states
• Elimination of Roe v. Wade (for all you pro-lifers out there)
• Elimination of prayer ban in school
• Elimination of Lawrence v. Texas
• etc
• etc

Bringing america back to what it was meant to be looks scary.

[QUOTE="RACiEP"][QUOTE="Pikdum"]

I would like to know this too. I hear this so often but no one ever cares to elaborate.

DroidPhysX

Bringing America back includes but is not limited to:

• Elimination of Miranda rights
• Elimination of right to an attorney
• Elimination of exclusionary evidence
• Elimination of incorporation of bill of rights to states
• Elimination of Roe v. Wade (for all you pro-lifers out there)
• Elimination of prayer ban in school
• Elimination of Lawrence v. Texas
• etc
• etc

Bringing america back to what it was meant to be looks scary.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

[QUOTE="RACiEP"] I'm curious as well...RACiEP

Bringing America back includes but is not limited to:

• Elimination of Miranda rights
• Elimination of right to an attorney
• Elimination of exclusionary evidence
• Elimination of incorporation of bill of rights to states
• Elimination of Roe v. Wade (for all you pro-lifers out there)
• Elimination of prayer ban in school
• Elimination of Lawrence v. Texas
• etc
• etc

Bringing america back to what it was meant to be looks scary.

Bringing America back includes but is not limited to:

• Elimination of Miranda rights
• Elimination of right to an attorney
• Elimination of exclusionary evidence
• Elimination of incorporation of bill of rights to states
• Elimination of Roe v. Wade (for all you pro-lifers out there)
• Elimination of prayer ban in school
• Elimination of Lawrence v. Texas
• etc
• etc

Bringing america back to what it was meant to be looks scary.

DroidPhysX

The point right now is, the US isn't doing so hot, and to a lot of people the ideology makes a lot of sense. For me, I can't even begin to see any logic in the arguments for Keynesian economics, because it isn't logical. It's more like dropping coins in those gambling machines that have a mechanical table moving back and forth. Eventually, it will work out right for some people, but it would still be a hard argument to make that it was a good investment.

[QUOTE="RACiEP"][QUOTE="Pikdum"]

I would like to know this too. I hear this so often but no one ever cares to elaborate.

DroidPhysX

Bringing America back includes but is not limited to:

• Elimination of Miranda rights
• Elimination of right to an attorney
• Elimination of exclusionary evidence
• Elimination of incorporation of bill of rights to states
• Elimination of Roe v. Wade (for all you pro-lifers out there)
• Elimination of prayer ban in school
• Elimination of Lawrence v. Texas
• etc
• etc

Bringing america back to what it was meant to be looks scary.

I have to say there are some views of Ron Paul's that I question too. I understand and support many of them but I would like to see him explain why he believes in those you listed. I've tried several inquiries of some that you have have listed and I can't find any coverage on them. It makes me wonder if its because he hasn't had the coverage or whatnot. Do you have any sources?

I have to say there are some views of Ron Paul's that I question too. I understand and support many of them but I would like to see him explain why he believes in those you listed. I've tried several inquiries of some that you have have listed and I can't find any coverage on them. It makes me wonder if its because he hasn't had the coverage or whatnot. Do you have any sources?

Pikdum

Those things you listed may seem strange, but they are rather insignificant to his major ideas. such as ending the military empire, ending the drug war, ending income tax, etc.mingmao3046

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

[QUOTE="RACiEP"] I'm curious as well...Pikdum

Bringing America back includes but is not limited to:

• Elimination of Miranda rights
• Elimination of right to an attorney
• Elimination of exclusionary evidence
• Elimination of incorporation of bill of rights to states
• Elimination of Roe v. Wade (for all you pro-lifers out there)
• Elimination of prayer ban in school
• Elimination of Lawrence v. Texas
• etc
• etc

Bringing america back to what it was meant to be looks scary.

I have to say there are some views of Ron Paul's that I question too. I understand and support many of them but I would like to see him explain why he believes in those you listed. I've tried several inquiries of some that you have have listed and I can't find any coverage on them. It makes me wonder if its because he hasn't had the coverage or whatnot. Do you have any sources?

[QUOTE="Pikdum"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

Bringing America back includes but is not limited to:

• Elimination of Miranda rights
• Elimination of right to an attorney
• Elimination of exclusionary evidence
• Elimination of incorporation of bill of rights to states
• Elimination of Roe v. Wade (for all you pro-lifers out there)
• Elimination of prayer ban in school
• Elimination of Lawrence v. Texas
• etc
• etc

Bringing america back to what it was meant to be looks scary.

surrealnumber5

I have to say there are some views of Ron Paul's that I question too. I understand and support many of them but I would like to see him explain why he believes in those you listed. I've tried several inquiries of some that you have have listed and I can't find any coverage on them. It makes me wonder if its because he hasn't had the coverage or whatnot. Do you have any sources?

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"]Those things you listed may seem strange, but they are rather insignificant to his major ideas. such as ending the military empire, ending the drug war, ending income tax, etc.DroidPhysX

Ron Paul is still my choice. Undoing decades of U.S. foreign policy would be nearly impossible anyway.

This election will be all about domestic issues. Paul is by far the strongest there.

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"] If the people didn't have some reason to believe him, i.e. US meddling in their business, then he would have be written off as a crazy person and not be able to get the support that he did. They had examples to associate with the things he said, therefore his claims seemed to make sense. He was a politician.-Sun_Tzu-

This would make sense if it were not for the fact that the United States continues to meddle int he region and really hasn't changed what so ever since the Cold War. Thats just it though, our foreign policy is more or less the exact same. And I never suggested we should catter directly to Bin Ladin, but the fact of the matter is the majoriyt of hatred has more to do WITH our foreign policy then anything COMING close to our freedoms within the entire region as a whole.. If terrorist wanted to attack people based on freedoms, they got whole laundry list of less secure and CLOSER countries.. The United States was specifically targeted..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Am2bWQRNw

Hmmm......

I'm good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Am2bWQRNw

Hmmm......

I'm good.

DroidPhysX

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="guynamedbilly"] If the people didn't have some reason to believe him, i.e. US meddling in their business, then he would have be written off as a crazy person and not be able to get the support that he did. They had examples to associate with the things he said, therefore his claims seemed to make sense. He was a politician.sSubZerOo

This would make sense if it were not for the fact that the United States continues to meddle int he region and really hasn't changed what so ever since the Cold War. Thats just it though, our foreign policy is more or less the exact same.

Compare the US response to the Iranian revolution to the response to the Arab Spring. We are openly condemning and asking for dictators who we have a long history of supporting to step down and allow for the creation of democracies. Even in Iraq - 30-40 years ago we would've had Saddam replaced with a newer Saddam. Instead, the Iraqi people, in the first time ever in their history, have the ability to elect their own government. Maybe these aren't good policies, but they are very different compared to what the US has a history of doing.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Am2bWQRNw

Hmmm......

I'm good.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Am2bWQRNw

Hmmm......

I'm good.

DroidPhysX

[QUOTE="Cow4ever"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] The problem is that the US doesn't always want to help for the sake of the people. They usually want to impose and manipulate to get some benefit. I don't think they have moral authority judging by their actions. And besides many of the problems in Africa stem from many years of european countries meddling there and imposing their western view of civilization. You just can't take a whole culture mostly based on hunter gatherer societies, enslave its people and treat them as inferior and then expect them to become industrialized first world countries and accept what you bring to them as "civilization". The western meddling in the world has caused much much much more harm than good IMO. I'm not even sure it can be stopped now but it would be nice to try.surrealnumber5