Same Sex Marriage/Rights Debate

Let them get married - it's not going to hurt anyone.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="soldine"]Marriage is for a man and a woman, nothing else.soldine

Why?

This is always stated without proof as though it were self-evident. 50 years ago you would find many people who thought that marriage is for a white man/woman or a colored man/woman, nothing else.

But you have no reasoning. "Marriage is for a man and a woman only" "Why?" "IT JUST IS" isn't a compelling arguement.

If I told you the moon was made of chocolate and refused to give any reasoning other than "Cause..." would you take me seriously?

[QUOTE="soldine"][QUOTE="madmidnight"] So it is marriage with a different word? You realize that is still discriminatory right? To exclude someone because they are different, the same thing by a different word is still different, especially when you lump an entire group of people into it.madmidnight

yes by all means lets make a new law that allows gays to be married, lets make a new law that lets a fish and a zebra marry too! As long as they love eachother, why not?soldine

If you can prove that both the fish and the zebra have the intellectual capacity to fully understand the meaning and the purpose of the contract into which they are entering, and that they have both provided their assent to enter therein, then yes, why not?

Good luck doing that, however.

[QUOTE="soldine"]yes by all means lets make a new law that allows gays to be married, lets make a new law that lets a fish and a zebra marry too! As long as they love eachother, why not?GabuEx

If you can prove that both the fish and the zebra have the intellectual capacity to fully understand the meaning and the purpose of the contract into which they are entering, and that they have both provided their assent to enter therein, then yes, why not?

Good luck doing that, however.

[QUOTE="soldine"]yes by all means lets make a new law that allows gays to be married, lets make a new law that lets a fish and a zebra marry too! As long as they love eachother, why not?GabuEx

If you can prove that both the fish and the zebra have the intellectual capacity to fully understand the meaning and the purpose of the contract into which they are entering, and that they have both provided their assent to enter therein, then yes, why not?

Good luck doing that, however.

[QUOTE="madmidnight"][QUOTE="soldine"] You wouldnt let a man into a womans washroom or a woman into a mans washroom, is that discriminatory? Marriage is for a man and a woman, nothing else.soldine

Once you find a zebra and fish with mental capacity to understand marriage, let me know.

[QUOTE="madmidnight"][QUOTE="soldine"] You wouldnt let a man into a womans washroom or a woman into a mans washroom, is that discriminatory? Marriage is for a man and a woman, nothing else.soldine

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="soldine"]yes by all means lets make a new law that allows gays to be married, lets make a new law that lets a fish and a zebra marry too! As long as they love eachother, why not?soldine

If you can prove that both the fish and the zebra have the intellectual capacity to fully understand the meaning and the purpose of the contract into which they are entering, and that they have both provided their assent to enter therein, then yes, why not?

Good luck doing that, however.

I'm just saying... the attempt to compare same-sex marriage to marriage involving animals ignores the crucial difference that humans are capable of understanding and therefore of entering with a sound mind into that arrangement, whereas animals are not.

I can't help but notice that you didn't answer my question - you do have a justification for why you believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman, right? A reason for believing that?

[QUOTE="soldine"][QUOTE="madmidnight"] That's not close to the same thing. Marriage is for who the church decided, just like slavery, voting, and countless other rights over the years. Your just regurgitating what you've been taught.Pixel-Pirate

Once you find a zebra and fish with mental capacity to understand marriage, let me know.

[QUOTE="soldine"]Marriage is for a man and a woman, nothing else.GabuEx

Why?

This is always stated without proof as though it were self-evident. 50 years ago you would find many people who thought that marriage is for a white man/woman or a colored man/woman, nothing else.

I've always viewed marriage from a ceremonial standpoint, Used as a demonstration of the love between a man and a women. These days it seems like the ceremonial side of marriage is almost completely gone and it's more a case of being obligated to marry anyone you have been with for a few years. Because you don't truly love them until you do. Then there is the legal benefits attached to it. All these things have contributed to the ridiculously high divorce rate. Really, Whats the point of it anymore? Just let me sign the legal documents saying we are now "Together" so we can go home and get drunk with a bunch of friends to celebrate. Thats about all it means anymore. After writing this i've changed my opinion, i just don't care anymore. People can marry a god damn shoe for all i care.

[QUOTE="soldine"][QUOTE="madmidnight"] That's not close to the same thing. Marriage is for who the church decided, just like slavery, voting, and countless other rights over the years. Your just regurgitating what you've been taught.madmidnight

As i said before my opinion is that marriage (as a binding) should be exclusive to a man and a womansoldine

But don't you have a... reason... for holding that opinion? :? A reason why you think that?

[QUOTE="soldine"]As i said before my opinion is that marriage (as a binding) should be exclusive to a man and a womanGabuEx

But don't you have a... reason... for holding that opinion? :? A reason why you think that?

I like to use logic to reach my conclusions, and therefore this makes my stance here very easy.

As long as heterosexual marriage is legal, homosexual marriage should be recognized by the law to an equal degree. Simple as that.

Ceremonial/ Religeous purposes which I think are important, ooooook?soldine

I'm just trying to understand why you seem to be adamantly holding to a position for which, apparently by your own admission, you cannot offer any justification.

[QUOTE="soldine"]Ceremonial/ Religeous purposes which I think are important, ooooook?GabuEx

I'm just trying to understand why you seem to be adamantly holding to a position for which, apparently by your own admission, you cannot offer any justification.

[QUOTE="soldine"]Ceremonial/ Religeous purposes which I think are important, ooooook?GabuEx

I'm just trying to understand why you seem to be adamantly holding to a position for which, apparently by your own admission, you cannot offer any justification.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="soldine"]Ceremonial/ Religeous purposes which I think are important, ooooook?Mafiree

I'm just trying to understand why you seem to be adamantly holding to a position for which, apparently by your own admission, you cannot offer any justification.

In England we have Civil partnership. I think its a bit stupid and we should just let them become married fully

[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I'm just trying to understand why you seem to be adamantly holding to a position for which, apparently by your own admission, you cannot offer any justification.

Bourbons3

A child has potentially (and likely) entered puberty at this point in time and thus has the ability to have children.....

So, if they have a child together it is unfair that they cannot marry and recieve benefits while they raise their family.

Yeahg they think there tiger woods

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"][QUOTE="Mafiree"] Explain why 12 year old can't marry a 40 year old? Society is simply legislating what they feel "should" be considered a marriage in both situations.Mafiree

A child has potentially (and likely) entered puberty at this point in time and thus has the ability to have children.....

So, if they have a child together it is unfair that they cannot marry and recieve benefits while they raise their family.

[QUOTE="Mafiree"]

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"] Because a 12 year old does not possess the mental maturity to enter in to a marriage. Gay adults do. Next?Bourbons3

A child has potentially (and likely) entered puberty at this point in time and thus has the ability to have children.....

So, if they have a child together it is unfair that they cannot marry and recieve benefits while they raise their family.

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"][QUOTE="Mafiree"]

A child has potentially (and likely) entered puberty at this point in time and thus has the ability to have children.....

So, if they have a child together it is unfair that they cannot marry and recieve benefits while they raise their family.

Mafiree

Really, the "If we let gays marry, then pedophilia would be okay!" arguement is shakier than a stack of coins in an earthquake.

I have no problem with them being together, but marriage is the binding of a man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

soldine

With this reasoning, then I say we should invalidate marriage as being legally recognized and everyone should have civil unions that have the same rights as marriage. That way, like all religious folk want, marriage will be a strictly religious matter that has no legal standing and is only recognized within your religious community. With that in mind, homosexual couples have the same legal rights as heterosexual couples, and religious people can keep marriage the way they want it. So basically, you can get married, but the state won't recognize it as legally binding. You will have to get a civil union between 2 people in order for it to be legal and this applies to everyone.

If people still complain about this, then it shows their true colors. Anyone with a problem with this basically thinks some people are more "equal" than others. Personally I can't understand why people have a problem with other people being happy. I mean when I say my gay classmate and his boyfriend, I don't care. It's non of my business what he and his boyfriend do in their spare time. As for public displays of affection, it's no different to male/female kissing or hugging. People need to get a life so they stop meddling in other people's lifes.

I have no problem with them being together, but marriage is the binding of a man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

soldine

[QUOTE="soldine"]

I have no problem with them being together, but marriage is the binding of a man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

RiseAgainst12

We should make divorce illegal!

[QUOTE="soldine"][QUOTE="madmidnight"] Where did I post something about you? I read all of your posts and you said in nearly all of them that you believe marriage is pointless for homosexuals because they can't procreate. There is more to marriage than procreation. READ MY POST, I quoted it for you to make it easy. Also gay married couples would be able to adopt, and in the case of two women they could use artificial insemination. madmidnight

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="soldine"]

I have no problem with them being together, but marriage is the binding of a man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and a woman.

Pixel-Pirate

We should make divorce illegal!

Yes at the moment, but ideally all [recognition of] marriages [by the government] should be abolished. There's no real reason why polygamy shouldn't be allowed either and when you have so few limitations then the marriage certificate becomes worthless, it should only stay as a ceremony with no legal implications.markop2003

Same sex marriage is absurd and disturbing IMO.tekken220

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, - That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The Declaration of Independence

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

The Constitution

If a majority be united by a common interest, the rights of the minority will be insecure. There are but two methods of providing against this evil: the one by creating a will in the community independent of the majority -- that is, of the society itself; the other, by comprehending in the society so many separate descriptions of citizens as will render an unjust combination of a majority of the whole very improbable, if not impracticable.

James Madison

It won't let me vote! :cry:

Edit: Nevermind.

I dont understand why people care? Are you so nossy that you have to pry into what other people do in private in their own homes? Just let people be for crying out loud. If gay people get married how does that affect your marriage? Do you lose something?II_Seraphim_II

Gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry. Nor should these people:

Atheists

Muslims

Pagans

Buddhists

Hindus

Agnostics

Catholics

Egyptians

Jehovah's Witnesses

Mormons

Iraqis

Palestinians

Women who have ever had sex

People who mix threads in their clothing

People who work on weekends

People who play gay characters in movies

People who eat pork

People who eat shellfish

Men who get haircuts

Women during their period

Because, you know, that's against the Bible.

Gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry. Nor should these people:

Atheists

Muslims

Pagans

Buddhists

Hindus

Agnostics

Catholics

Egyptians

Jehovah's Witnesses

Mormons

Iraqis

Palestinians

Women who have ever had sex

People who mix threads in their clothing

People who work on weekends

People who play gay characters in movies

People who eat pork

People who eat shellfish

Men who get haircuts

Women during their period

Because, you know, that's against the Bible.

Theokhoth

Although I know you're joking and I appreciate the humor, but does anyone really care? I mean, it's not your marriage we're talking about here. What about you marry the person you want to marry, and everyone else marry the person they want to marry. Problem solved. I realize that marriage is sacred to most people, but as long as married couples get tax benefits, it can not be restricted to Christians. That would mean that being a Christian means you're better, and that's discrimination. If they somehow sort out this problem so that marriage doesn't include any tax benefits, but let's say simply living together or something, then it would be okay to exclude everyone but Christians, but as it stands marriage is a legal right, and you can't take that away from anyone from being a blasphemer. The government in this day and age is supposed to be purely secular.

Same sex marriage is absurd and disturbing IMO.tekken220

10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong


1. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong


1. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

PannicAtack

Great! I would love to see anyone saying gay marriage is bad to contend with all these points.