Saw the post about plastic surgery and wanted to see what you guys thought about Abortions?

I want this to be a completely calm debate/conversation. Lets respect everyone's views.

So what do you guys think about Abortions?

Personally I am very mixed. I think that by aborting a child you are effectively murdering a kid despite what people say about it not technically being a living being. Honestly.... **** that. Its alive, its growing, and its a child. But then people always bring up Rape victims and I can sympathize with that. How can you tell someone that got raped and pregnant that she has to have the child? I get that. But at the same time I think.... is it the childs fault that their biological dad was an asshole and their mom was pregnant.... its just something that happened. Its terrible. But it happened. And as a result there is now a new child that is alive and will be coming into the world. So yeah. I don't know. The rape thing if where i get stuck on my opinion. What do you guys think?

@number1dudeguy: I used to be against abortion unless it was a case of rape, incest or the mother was going to have complications if she went through with the birth. These days I'm all for it. We have the ability to tell if the kid is going to have any severe disabilities, etc. And honestly, I look at some of the environments these kids are being brought into and I think abortion is the best choice.

I'm not sure on how you got from plastic surgery to abortion ...

@lostrib: LOL. Yeah. I mean it doesn't really connect at all. Really just one controversial topic to another. And this was one that I have alot of mixed feelings on so I wanted to see what others thought.

Why is plastic surgery controversial?

@plageus900: Yeah i agree with the disabilities and birth complications thing.

@plageus900: I mean in scenarios that people are using it to drastically alter how they look. Alot of people (myself included) think its not "right"... or something.

Hmmm. I think an individual has the right to alter themselves any way they choose too. It's not up to you or I decide or judge their decisions.

@plageus900: Yeah I get it. Its their body they do what they want. I would never out right be rude to someone or tell them what to do. But my personal belief is that it is wrong. Whether we like it or not... how we look is a huge part of who and what we are. Drastically altering it just because we are dissatisfied with how we look seems immoral to me.

To quote Jiz: "only live things go in and dead things come out"

Should be 100% free and available to any woman who wants one UNTIL science can find a way to take an unwanted foetus and place it into a wiling mother (or raise the foetus in an artificial environment) AND/OR the government can come up with a way to care for; financially AND emotionally, all the children that will flood the foster system, and give them a true chance at a real life.

So really, abortion should be legal, and will remain as such for a very, very long time.

I don't think that anything without brain function should be considered a human.

It comes down to what a human is, and what it comes down to it, what we really are is our conscious thought, our underlaying functions that goes on in our brain. Something without human brain function is not human.

@servomaster: I never really got that argument. Like.... give it 9 months and you've got a baby on your hands. A real breathing, living baby. So TO ME.... it doesn't really make sense to say that its not human. Sure.... not yet. But to me its close enough that it makes it morally wrong.

I'm undecided.

@servomaster: That's just so odd. Of course it's a human.

It should be legal.

it's a human at that point but it's not during the entire process.

it's not, if you start considering anything human, where does the line sit?

Ehh, my feelings, or anyone else's feelings don't matter that much. All I know is that I don't want tax dollars paying for it.

The "potential" argument is flawed, because you have to draw an arbitrary line.

When does it become "human"?

• When the heart starts beating?
• When the brain shows function?
• When it begins to feel pain?
• When the zygote forms and cells begin to divide?
• When the sperm is created in the testes?

The legal side (at least here in Canada) draws the line at birth. It's not the ethically or morally "best" line to draw, but it's legally the easiest to define. And most certainly, women should have the legal access to safe, medical abortions if they so choose to have them, because if they can't get them in a hospital/doctor's office, then they will find a back-alley "clinic" that does them on-the-cheap, putting their own lives at risk on top of their unborn child.

Personally, I find abortion, especially that used as retroactive birth control, to be absolutely abhorrent, but I accept that it's the best viable option to control the number of unwanted children flooding an already over-worked and under-funded foster care system.

@comp_atkins: heh. that made me laugh.

No problem with abortion this "issue" was solved years ago. I'm not a female so it doesn't really matter what I think anyway.

I'm pro-choice.

Im pro-choice, not because of that stupid reason of "woman choice and its their bodies", but because of population control and the fact that many people out their are are getting pregnant and shouldnt be having that baby (negative factors).

But I dont really care to be honest, I dont really feel heavily on it. If its illegal I wouldnt care to be honest.

To me, it makes perfect sense if the baby is the result of rape or incest, if the mother's life is at serious risk, if the baby is being born with obvious deformities and if the baby is being born into an unsuitable environment. As for parents who go for abortions just because they don't want the baby, well, I haven't formed a full opinion on it but insofar I don't have a positive attitude towards that mentality. As a population control device, I personally don't approve of it.

Always been indifferent.

We should value human life, but it's not some sacred magical thing. The universe doesn't care what happens either way.

I'll just say I don't like it (in normal circumstances), but it should be legal. In general the bigger issues in society are intelligence/morality, not whether or not something is illegal. Making it illegal wouldn't stop it completely, it would just lead to more dangerous situations.

If the baby is a threat to the mother's life, or rape etc. etc. then it's ok.

Women can own their body's, if the father wants the baby and she gets the abortion anyways I would say the father has some thinking to do. That said, we have to talk about the father as well. Since the mother can do that, if she wants the child but the father doesn't then he shouldn't get stuck paying for it. In all cases I feel for the child, but there shouldn't be any double standards with this stuff either. Most of the time it seems like women get all the rights to raise children and men get none or little when push comes to shove. But of course kids need a mother and a father.

@Celldrax: This guy. This guy knows what he is talking about.

haha.

Morality prescribes abortion rights that are neither pro-life nor pro-choice. If there's a danger to the mother's life then abortion should be afforded. Rape victims shouldn't be victimized further by having to give birth to their tragedy.

Beyond that, however, abortion is murder in advance. Both morality and jurisprudence lend solemn considerations to certainties and ordain accordingly. If you're a part of a social arrangement you don't have full sovereignty over your body, which renders the choice of abortion common. If you're hell bent on that right, go live in a desert.

I'm all for it. Who am I to say someone shouldn't? I don't have my head that far up my ass to think that. It's their own business.

I'm all for it, unless there is a better alternative.

I'm all for it.

Better to have it removed before it really has the chance to experience anything, before it is aware of being alive on a consciousness level. Rather that than growing up in an unwanted environment..

I think every woman has the right to do with her body as she pleases. I also think it's wrong to force a woman to have a child she can either not support or will not love (hence wanting the abortion in the first place).

No that's odd. Humans are human always. Not something else.

The are not, explain to me where you think the line is?

I know there exists a 200 pound culture of human cells being studied in a lab right now. Is that a human? Does it have rights? Do sperm have rights? You've gotta give something to go on.

I'm fine with it.

I think it's the woman's body therefore it's her decision. I have my own personal views but they may differ from someone else and I've even been called selfish for my views. The fact it, it is there for me or anyone else to utilize regardless of anyone else's opinion.

I tend to agree with where the law sits today..basically no abortions past a certain week unless other mitigating factors are present such as risk to the mother's life. I also don't think this is an issue that only women can weigh in on and only their opinion matter. This is a topic of ethics/morality and there is more at stake than simply "women's health."

I agree that not only the opinions of women matter, but I do think that women's opinions matter more since they are the ones most affected by any legislation around this issue.

But the opinions of men only matter as far as the overall debate is concerned. I've seen people suggest that a woman shouldn't be able to get an abortion unless the father consents as well, which is nonsense.

If I was with someone who was considering getting an abortion, I'd try to talk them out of it and wouldn't support their decision. That being said, I'm also not going to make the decision for them because I don't think it's my place to tell people what to do with unborn children. In other words, I personally wouldn't want my significant other to get one, but I'm not one to force that view on others.

I'm not a woman, I'll never have to carry a child to term, I'll never have to raise a child, and I'll never have to make the decision to abort or give a child up for adoption, so I'm in no position to tell someone else what decision they should make.

It's not a "child" until it is capable of living outside of a mother's body. The earliest birth survival on record is 21 weeks and 5 days, which is just under 5 1/2 months. Between 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 months, survival is only about 50%.

Pro-choice, but I can totally get behind a ban on 3rd trimester abortions where health consequences aren't a consideration.

Pro-Choice up until Fetal Viability.

Its around the Fetal Viability period in which t he brain develops to support a consciousness. It is human consciousness that supports personhood.

It is personhood that makes human life so valuable. not the fact that they have human DNA.

I actually consider being pro-choice to be a better way to limit the amount of abortions in the world.

If it dies when you separate it from its mother it's not a baby it is a parasitic infection.