Science is based on assumptions.

[QUOTE="lucky326"]Hey Hey, I've got a Scientific Fact for you. If I drop a Rock over your head preferably a big one and you dont move it will hit your head.metroidfood

What are you talking about? That's only based on the THEORY of gravity, it's not actually a fact. :P

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!harashawn

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Obviously not. Disagree with some things of evolution and you become a "deluded religious person".

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!harashawn

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Everything is based on assumptions. You see when building a "system" it can be either complete or consistent. You can't have both. You just have to assume some things are true(the very basic things), and go with it.

This is seriously starting to piss me off, you creationist really need to learn to respect what science has done for humans, If it wasn't for science we would still be sitting in a cave trying to figure out how to make a wheel.Ingenemployee

[QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!battlefront23

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Obviously not. Disagree with some things of evolution and you become a "deluded religious person".

Yes, when you deny evidence its usually regarded as a delusion.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!harashawn

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

From your initial post it seems you know very little about the supporting evidence for things like the theory of evolution.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!harashawn

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29351

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS9jL_kYdF8

From your initial post it seems you know very little about the supporting evidence for things like the theory of evolution.

metroidfood

And you haven't led me to believe that you know much about it either.

Now all I need is for a creationist to say

1.Evolution is a religion

2.Evolution is evil

3.Evolution has never been observed

4.There are no transitional fossils

5.Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics

6.Evolution is only a theory.

7.Evolution doesn't explain how chemicals became life.

Come on....you know you want to!!!

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!the_one34

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Obviously not. Disagree with some things of evolution and you become a "deluded religious person".

Yes, when you deny evidence its usually regarded as a delusion.

Evidence of what? I've seen countless links you guys have posted... That didn't prove ANYTHING.

[QUOTE="the_one34"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!battlefront23

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Obviously not. Disagree with some things of evolution and you become a "deluded religious person".

Yes, when you deny evidence its usually regarded as a delusion.

Evidence of what? I've seen countless links you guys have posted... That didn't prove ANYTHING.

What what what? How many times do I have to type the same things?

Archaeopteryx? Tiktaalik? Nylon digesting bacteria? ERVs? Fused chromosome in humans? Over 40 instances of observed speciation? Massive quantities of DNA evidence?

These prove nothing?

Edit Just remembered - Homologous series, Vestigial Organs, Atavisms(Chickens, anyone?)

Harashawn let me put this into a context you might understand. Your criticism of science is akin to someone who criticises Christianity based the complaint that Jesus never existed because he can't see him or talk to him. They might say that his existence was just an assumption and that nothing that is said about him can be taken seriously because he never existed.

Isn't that just silly and frustrating to you?

6.Evolution is only a theory.

the_one34

Evolution is a theory. That's why it's the THEORY of evolution.

Harashawn let me put this into a context you might understand. Your criticism of science is akin to someone who criticises Christianity based the complaint that Jesus never existed because he can't see him or talk to him. They might say that his existence was just an assumption and that nothing that is said about him can be taken seriously because he never existed.

Isn't that just silly and frustrating to you?

domatron23

People can think whatever they want. I have no right to judge.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

6.Evolution is only a theory.

harashawn

Evolution is a theory. That's why it's the THEORY of evolution.

Ahh but it's a fact that its considered a theory :D.lucky326

That didn't really add anything to the conversation...

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

6.Evolution is only a theory.

harashawn

Evolution is a theory. That's why it's the THEORY of evolution.

You mean like Cell theory? Or germ theory? Or Atomic theory? Or electromagnetic theory?

Is it "only a theory" that we are made of cells? Or "only a theory" that germs cause disease?

You just proved your level of scientific knowledge, by the way. It fails even at the basic level.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

6.Evolution is only a theory.

harashawn

Evolution is a theory. That's why it's the THEORY of evolution.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="the_one34"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!the_one34

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Obviously not. Disagree with some things of evolution and you become a "deluded religious person".

Yes, when you deny evidence its usually regarded as a delusion.

Evidence of what? I've seen countless links you guys have posted... That didn't prove ANYTHING.

What what what? How many times do I have to type the same things?

Archaeopteryx? Tiktaalik? Nylon digesting bacteria? ERVs? Fused chromosome in humans? Over 40 instances of observed speciation? Massive quantities of DNA evidence?

These prove nothing?

How we evolved from chimps, the earth's age (this one doesn't really matter imo), etc. Explain why chimps are cannablistic.

How we evolved from chimps, the earth's age (this one doesn't really matter imo), etc. Explain why chimps are cannablistic.

battlefront23

[QUOTE="the_one34"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="the_one34"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!battlefront23

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Obviously not. Disagree with some things of evolution and you become a "deluded religious person".

Yes, when you deny evidence its usually regarded as a delusion.

Evidence of what? I've seen countless links you guys have posted... That didn't prove ANYTHING.

What what what? How many times do I have to type the same things?

Archaeopteryx? Tiktaalik? Nylon digesting bacteria? ERVs? Fused chromosome in humans? Over 40 instances of observed speciation? Massive quantities of DNA evidence?

These prove nothing?

How we evolved from chimps, the earth's age (this one doesn't really matter imo), etc. Explain why chimps are cannablistic.

We have a fused chromosome(=46 pairs, chimps have 48 ) and how about the fact that we share so much in common??

Why are chimps cannabilisitc? I don't know eactly, but some humans can be too. Hell, chimps can act friendly, and this has been observed.

By the way, anything else to say about the other evidence I mentioned?

Edit: We didn't evolve from chimps, we share a common ancestor. Kind of gotten used to taking that for granted that people know this by now, I forget to mention it :(

EDIT2: The earth's age? Radiometric dating,palentology and geology in general.

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Harashawn let me put this into a context you might understand. Your criticism of science is akin to someone who criticises Christianity based the complaint that Jesus never existed because he can't see him or talk to him. They might say that his existence was just an assumption and that nothing that is said about him can be taken seriously because he never existed.

Isn't that just silly and frustrating to you?

harashawn

People can think whatever they want. I have no right to judge.

Do you think that what this person believes has anything to do with reality though?

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]

From your initial post it seems you know very little about the supporting evidence for things like the theory of evolution.

harashawn

And you haven't led me to believe that you know much about it either.

I've given you proven evidence about the subject. You haven't, nor have you given proven evidence in opposition to it. I could go on a lot longer about the subject, but it would be pointless since you seem to ignore all the evidence that people post in this thread.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="the_one34"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="the_one34"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!the_one34

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Obviously not. Disagree with some things of evolution and you become a "deluded religious person".

Yes, when you deny evidence its usually regarded as a delusion.

Evidence of what? I've seen countless links you guys have posted... That didn't prove ANYTHING.

What what what? How many times do I have to type the same things?

Archaeopteryx? Tiktaalik? Nylon digesting bacteria? ERVs? Fused chromosome in humans? Over 40 instances of observed speciation? Massive quantities of DNA evidence?

These prove nothing?

How we evolved from chimps, the earth's age (this one doesn't really matter imo), etc. Explain why chimps are cannablistic.

We have a fused chromosome(=46 pairs, chimps have 48 ) and how about the fact that we share so much in common?

Why are chimps cannabilisitc? I don't know eactly, but some humans can be too. Hell, chimps can act friendly, and this has been observed.

By the way, anything else to say about the other evidence I mentioned?

Edit: We didn't evolve from chimps, we share a common ancestor. Kind of gotten used to taking that for granted that people know this by now, I forget to mention it :(

And that proves we evolved from them?

It's instinct, it's not them being friendly.

No...

Evolution is a theory. That's why it's the THEORY of evolution.

harashawn

I wasn't going to comment, but I really need to reply to this, as this is one of my biggest pet peeves in debates over evolution.

Science does two things: it establishes the way things are, and it then forms an explanation why things are the way they are.

For example, it is an observable fact that there is an attractive force between any two masses that is proportional to the size of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the two masses. That's the way things are. The theory of gravity then says that this happens because a body of mass bends space around it kind of like a bowling ball on a mattress, thus attracting smaller objects in its vicinity towards it.

Similarly, science has also observed that there are millions of different species on Earth. That's the way things are. The theory of evolution, like the theory of gravity, then says that this happens because of genetic mutation, natural selection, et cetera.

That's what means to call something a theory in science. It doesn't mean that it's just a guess; it means that it's an explanation of the way an observed fact came to be. In addition, something doesn't become a theory in science until it has the weight of evidence behind it; a simple guess is called a hypothesis. The dictionary defines the scientific use of the word thusly: "A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena."

So please - and this is not just to the person I'm replying to - stop with the "it's just a theory" line when talking about evolution. All that's really showing is that you are unaware what the word "theory" means.

I've given you proven evidence about the subject. You haven't, nor have you given proven evidence in opposition to it. I could go on a lot longer about the subject, but it would be pointless since you seem to ignore all the evidence that people post in this thread.

metroidfood

You don't need to know anything about a subject in order to post a link about it. I could post a link about sky diving right now, that doesn't make me sky diving expert.

Oh, and for the record: WE ARE STILL PRIMATES TODAY.

Edit: I found the Miller video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

P.S - He's a Christian :)

Science is not entirely based on evidence or fact, it is mostly based on assumptions.

Examples:

1. The planets temperature has increased by 0.6 degrees Celsius within the last 100 years. Therefore, Global warming is caused by humans.

2. There are fossils from different periods that look similar. Therefore, they evolved.

3. There is not a lot of evidence to prove Gods existence. Therefore, he does not exist.

What do you think?

harashawn

yo creo que tu (insert verb 'to troll' in second person')

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

Now all I need is for a creationist to say

**7 terrible cliches**

Come on....you know you want to!!!

Bio_Spark

You forgot the conceding minority: "Microevolution has been observred, but Macroevolution hasn't!"

Even though they're just referring to different points in time of the same damn theory.

How could I have forgotten that?! cla$$sic!

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

Oh, you probably think evolution means bacteria giving birth to a mouse, or something of the sort?

Don't they teach you anything at school?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

Also, we have seen bacteria evolving the ability to digest NYLON, a substance artificially synthesised in 1935.

harashawn

I know what evolution is about.

I don't believe every single thing an "expert" says is true.

Science is not entirely based on evidence or fact, it is mostly based on assumptions.

Examples:

1. The planets temperature has increased by 0.6 degrees Celsius within the last 100 years. Therefore, Global warming is caused by humans.

2. There are fossils from different periods that look similar. Therefore, they evolved.

3. There is not a lot of evidence to prove Gods existence. Therefore, he does not exist.

What do you think?

harashawn

Theres a lot of scientists who say quite the opposite about global warming.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]I don't understand why people with such little scientific knowledge insist on criticising concepts they barely even understand. I was taught to keep my mouth shut in discussions where I didn't know crap about!harashawn

Because I don't agree with these "experts" you just assume I know nothing about what they say.

Here's the beauty of science: You don't have to agree with any "experts". Science in general is seen as a factual authority because all conclusions are reliably consistent when tested. Given that you are appropriately educated, and that you have the appropriate supplies, you can test anything that science has claimed in the comfort of your own home.

Theories are an assumed system incorporating consistent facts. They are "only" theories because you can't prove them to be fact, that is true. But the facts on which they are based can be proven, and there is no way to disprove them.

When you can disprove the possibility of a theory, then you can safely say it's wrong. This is encouraged (and indeed, has happened many times) by the scientific community, because no one wants to believe in something that is clearly wrong, and the sooner we find out that our beliefs are wrong, the sooner we can start looking for the truth.

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]

I've given you proven evidence about the subject. You haven't, nor have you given proven evidence in opposition to it. I could go on a lot longer about the subject, but it would be pointless since you seem to ignore all the evidence that people post in this thread.

harashawn

You don't need to know anything about a subject in order to post a link about it. I could post a link about sky diving right now, that doesn't make me sky diving expert.

It proves I know enough to back up my statements with specific evidence rather than posting a link to a blanket page about the theory of evolution.

the_one34

And that proves we evolved from them?

It's instinct, it's not them being friendly.

No...

I can't break this down into simpler terms, I'm sorry. You're just going to have to do some research by yourself.

If you're interested, Ken Miller does a better job than I ever will on explaining the fused chromosome.

Oh, and for the record: WE ARE STILL PRIMATES TODAY.

Edit: I found the Miller video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

P.S - He's a Christian :)

I won't believe all elements of evolution until they are proven to be true. Yes things evolve I'm not arguing that. I just don't believe species evolve into different species.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

Now all I need is for a creationist to say

**7 terrible cliches**

Come on....you know you want to!!!

Bio_Spark

You forgot the conceding minority: "Microevolution has been observred, but Macroevolution hasn't!"

Even though they're just referring to different points in time of the same damn theory.

Also, what about the missing link! HUH?! I got you there! Evolution is a lie!

I won't believe all elements of evolution until they are proven to be true. Yes things evolve I'm not arguing that. I just don't believe species evolve into different species.

Huh? You do realise that there have been at least 40 observed instances of speciation? Just in case:

Speciation = New species

This has been observed so much that scientists have even clas$ified 4 types of speciation! (Namely: Allopatric, Sympatric, Peripatric, Parapatric)

I won't believe all elements of evolution until they are proven to be true. Yes things evolve I'm not arguing that. I just don't believe species evolve into different species.

battlefront23

Out of curiosity, what would prove them to be true?

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I won't believe all elements of evolution until they are proven to be true. Yes things evolve I'm not arguing that. I just don't believe species evolve into different species.

GabuEx

Out of curiosity, what would prove them to be true?

That we actually see it.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I won't believe all elements of evolution until they are proven to be true. Yes things evolve I'm not arguing that. I just don't believe species evolve into different species.

Bio_Spark

Out of curiosity, what would prove them to be true?

Not Science, apparently. We need God to drop a stone monolith from they sky bearing the words

"EVOLUTION IS REAL. GET WITH THE PICTURE GUYS, SERIOUSLY."

lol.

That we actually see it.

battlefront23

How do you propose we do that, when any reputable scientist will tell you that it's a process that happens over millions of years?

On a related note, do you believe that atoms exist?

Just to repost what I said earlier:

This has been observed so much that scientists have even clas$ified 4 types of speciation! (Namely: Allopatric, Sympatric, Peripatric, Parapatric)"

Just to repost what I said earlier:

"Huh? You do realise that there have been at least 40 observed instances of speciation? Just in case:

Speciation = New species

This has been observed so much that scientists have even clas$ified 4 types of speciation! (Namely: Allopatric, Sympatric, Peripatric, Parapatric)"

the_one34

If people paid attention to these things the first, second, or five hundredth time they've been posted we'd never be having this argument.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

That we actually see it.

GabuEx

How do you propose we do that, when any reputable scientist will tell you that it's a process that happens over millions of years?

I don't even know why we put so much effort on our guesses about the past... We should be worrying about the present and than the future. Science about medical studies; not about what might've happened millions of years ago.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

Just to repost what I said earlier:

"Huh? You do realise that there have been at least 40 observed instances of speciation? Just in case:

Speciation = New species

This has been observed so much that scientists have even clas$ified 4 types of speciation! (Namely: Allopatric, Sympatric, Peripatric, Parapatric)"

metroidfood

If people paid attention to these things the first, second, or five hundredth time they've been posted we'd never be having this argument.

True...

*waits for: but it didnt show a cat turning into a dog!" comment

Just to repost what I said earlier:

"Huh? You do realise that there have been at least 40 observed instances of speciation? Just in case:

Speciation = New species

This has been observed so much that scientists have even clas$ified 4 types of speciation! (Namely: Allopatric, Sympatric, Peripatric, Parapatric)"

the_one34

I think that the speciation of plants and micro-organisms aren't what creationists are really looking for when they demand an observation of macro evolution. They want apes turning into humans again and nothing less will satisfy them.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I won't believe all elements of evolution until they are proven to be true. Yes things evolve I'm not arguing that. I just don't believe species evolve into different species.

Bio_Spark

Out of curiosity, what would prove them to be true?

Not Science, apparently. We need God to drop a stone monolith from they sky bearing the words

"EVOLUTION IS REAL. GET WITH THE PICTURE GUYS, SERIOUSLY."

I never said all of evolution wasn't true. :|

Assumtions FTL.