Scranton, Pennsylvania bans pro-choicers from St. Patrick's Day Parade

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JoeRatz16

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#1 JoeRatz16
Member since 2008 • 697 Posts

The Bishop of Scranton (the childhood home of Joe Biden) has banned pr0-choice politicians from be honored during the St. Patrick's day parade ( In Scranton most St. Patrick's day parades honor local politicians), warning that if any where about to be honored he would cancel the parades in order to "avoid scandal". The leaders of most parade organizers are following the Bishop's example.

Well this kind of makes sense doesn't it. I doubt St. Patrick would be happy to see pro-choicers honored during his parade.

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SavageM2

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#2 SavageM2
Member since 2005 • 10800 Posts

I had no Idea. And I live near Scranton. :lol:

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Saturos3091

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#3 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

And it's under an hour from where I live. :o

PA is known for this sort of stuff. It's pretty much split firmly down the middle Democrat/Republican and the middle/appalachian counties are rather backwater.

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dave123321

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#4 dave123321
Member since 2003 • 35554 Posts
This actually annoys me.
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nocoolnamejim

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#5 nocoolnamejim
Member since 2003 • 15136 Posts
Just like the last thread you started was an example of an unacceptable intrusion of government into religion, this is an example of an unacceptable intrusion of religion into government. I'm pretty sure that abortion wasn't the huge, controversial issue of St. Patrick's time as it is today, though I'd welcome well-sourced corrections to that line of thought. This is nothing more than a particular Bishop firing a shot across the bow of Democratic politicians similar to the denying of Communion to John Kerry back in 2004 and indirectly telling people that "Good Catholics" shouldn't vote for Democrats. Is he also planning on banning politicians that voted for the Iraq war from joining the parade?
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XD4NTESINF3RNOX

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#6 XD4NTESINF3RNOX
Member since 2008 • 7438 Posts
is dunder-mifflin company there :P parades>local politicians :P
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mattykovax

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#7 mattykovax
Member since 2004 • 22693 Posts
I think that is stupid. Its not just a religous holiday anymore. Thats like saying you cannot celebrate christmas unless you take communion and hate homosexuals. "oh,your pro-gay,pro-choice,pro-anything the church is against,no presents for you!?!". Same thing in my opinion. lighten up and just have fun with a good holiday.
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THE_DRUGGIE

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#8 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

So they're banning people from enjoying a parade for a day that gives people an excuse to elevate their blood alcohol level significantly?

I think this ban is bald-faced ideological discrimination.

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JoeRatz16

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#9 JoeRatz16
Member since 2008 • 697 Posts

Just like the last thread you started was an example of an unacceptable intrusion of government into religion, this is an example of an unacceptable intrusion of religion into government. I'm pretty sure that abortion wasn't the huge, controversial issue of St. Patrick's time as it is today, though I'd welcome well-sourced corrections to that line of thought. This is nothing more than a particular Bishop firing a shot across the bow of Democratic politicians similar to the denying of Communion to John Kerry back in 2004 and indirectly telling people that "Good Catholics" shouldn't vote for Democrats. Is he also planning on banning politicians that voted for the Iraq war from joining the parade?nocoolnamejim
1. He's not intruding into government, he's just saying that parade groups affiliated with the church shouldn't honor pro-choice politicians. 2. This has nothing to do with Democrats/Republicans- he has admonished pro-choice Republicans such as Rudy Giuliani before. 3. Martino wasn't the bishop who said he would deny Communion to Kerry, that was Archbishop Raymond Burke who was then Archbishop of St. Louis and is currently the Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic signatura.

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chessmaster1989

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#10 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
Honestly, this is just stupid. So much for separation of church and state...
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Vandalvideo

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#11 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
ZOMG, reverse first ammendment. In all actuality, I would take this to court.
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#12 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

The Bishop of Scranton (the childhood home of Joe Biden) has banned pr0-choice politicians from be honored during the St. Patrick's day parade ( In Scranton most St. Patrick's day parades honor local politicians), warning that if any where about to be honored he would cancel the parades in order to "avoid scandal". The leaders of most parade organizers are following the Bishop's example.

Well this kind of makes sense doesn't it. I doubt St. Patrick would be happy to see pro-choicers honored during his parade.

JoeRatz16
I doubt he'd be happy to see people vomiting green beer in the streets either, but what can you do?
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nocoolnamejim

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#13 nocoolnamejim
Member since 2003 • 15136 Posts

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Just like the last thread you started was an example of an unacceptable intrusion of government into religion, this is an example of an unacceptable intrusion of religion into government. I'm pretty sure that abortion wasn't the huge, controversial issue of St. Patrick's time as it is today, though I'd welcome well-sourced corrections to that line of thought. This is nothing more than a particular Bishop firing a shot across the bow of Democratic politicians similar to the denying of Communion to John Kerry back in 2004 and indirectly telling people that "Good Catholics" shouldn't vote for Democrats. Is he also planning on banning politicians that voted for the Iraq war from joining the parade?JoeRatz16

1. He's not intruding into government, he's just saying that parade groups affiliated with the church shouldn't honor pro-choice politicians. 2. This has nothing to do with Democrats/Republicans- he has admonished pro-choice Republicans such as Rudy Giuliani before. 3. Martino wasn't the bishop who said he would deny Communion to Kerry, that was Archbishop Raymond Burke who was then Archbishop of St. Louis and is currently the Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic signatura.

I never said it was the same politician as who denied communion to Kerry. I simply said it was the same sort of circumstances. There is a difference between HONORING pro-choice politicians and simply allowing them to attend. By specifically banning them, this Bishop is going a step beyond simply not-honoring them. He is specifically telling, in loud, unequivocal tones, that Catholics should treat politicians who support abortion like lepers. I have watched your posts and I know you believe that Catholic church figures can really do no wrong morally, but that doesn't mean that, according to the laws of the land, that this is not an outright violation of the spirit of the law of separation of Church and State from a legal standpoint. You also didn't answer my other question. Is the Bishop going to be consistent and ban people who voted in favor of the Iraq war from joining the parade? Edit: And from a religious standpoint, wasn't it Christ who hung around with prostitutes and even promised a convicted criminal who was crucified next to him a place in heaven? It seems that going out of your way to ostracize folks who may have "sinned" in the mind of this Bishop is going against the teaching of Jesus himself who allowed sinners of all stripes to hang around him.
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swiftkillz0

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#14 swiftkillz0
Member since 2009 • 836 Posts
ita their parade
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LosDaddie

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#15 LosDaddie
Member since 2006 • 10318 Posts

Remember kids; You can't be Christian and a Democrat

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RiseAgainst12

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#16 RiseAgainst12
Member since 2007 • 6767 Posts

Only in America would another countries tradition be taking and used as a tool of manipulation :lol: thoe i dont get why they take our Irish holiday to celebrate Irish heritageand bring American politcs into it, and also what gives that religious leader the right to say who can and can't celebrate it.

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JoeRatz16

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#17 JoeRatz16
Member since 2008 • 697 Posts

ZOMG, reverse first ammendment. In all actuality, I would take this to court.Vandalvideo
last time I checked there's no law saying that all people are entitled to be honored at a parade.

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#18 hokies1313
Member since 2005 • 13919 Posts
Aha, Scranton. I live about an hour south of there. The as a Catholic, I can understand why the Bishop would do this. He is against abortion and wouldn't want to endorse or celebrate politicians that are pro-abortion. However, these are local politicians, not really people that can effect the laws of the entire United States.
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Saturos3091

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#19 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

Remember kids; You can't be Christian and a Democrat

LosDaddie
I would much prefer kids to grow up free-thinking, without being confined to one or more selective groups. That way they won't be so set in their ways to benefit their particular "faction," and would be more understanding of others. But I do see what you're saying. :lol:
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#20 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]ZOMG, reverse first ammendment. In all actuality, I would take this to court.JoeRatz16

last time I checked there's no law saying that all people are entitled to be honored at a parade.

No, but there is a statute which state that government may not show any form of favortism to any type of religious affiliations, such to the extent where, as a byproduct, people like these are restricted.
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JoeRatz16

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#21 JoeRatz16
Member since 2008 • 697 Posts

[QUOTE="JoeRatz16"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Just like the last thread you started was an example of an unacceptable intrusion of government into religion, this is an example of an unacceptable intrusion of religion into government. I'm pretty sure that abortion wasn't the huge, controversial issue of St. Patrick's time as it is today, though I'd welcome well-sourced corrections to that line of thought. This is nothing more than a particular Bishop firing a shot across the bow of Democratic politicians similar to the denying of Communion to John Kerry back in 2004 and indirectly telling people that "Good Catholics" shouldn't vote for Democrats. Is he also planning on banning politicians that voted for the Iraq war from joining the parade?nocoolnamejim

1. He's not intruding into government, he's just saying that parade groups affiliated with the church shouldn't honor pro-choice politicians. 2. This has nothing to do with Democrats/Republicans- he has admonished pro-choice Republicans such as Rudy Giuliani before. 3. Martino wasn't the bishop who said he would deny Communion to Kerry, that was Archbishop Raymond Burke who was then Archbishop of St. Louis and is currently the Prefect of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic signatura.

I never said it was the same politician as who denied communion to Kerry. I simply said it was the same sort of circumstances. There is a difference between HONORING pro-choice politicians and simply allowing them to attend. By specifically banning them, this Bishop is going a step beyond simply not-honoring them. He is specifically telling, in loud, unequivocal tones, that Catholics should treat politicians who support abortion like lepers. I have watched your posts and I know you believe that Catholic church figures can really do no wrong morally, but that doesn't mean that, according to the laws of the land, that this is not an outright violation of the spirit of the law of separation of Church and State from a legal standpoint. You also didn't answer my other question. Is the Bishop going to be consistent and ban people who voted in favor of the Iraq war from joining the parade? Edit: And from a religious standpoint, wasn't it Christ who hung around with prostitutes and even promised a convicted criminal who was crucified next to him a place in heaven? It seems that going out of your way to ostracize folks who may have "sinned" in the mind of this Bishop is going against the teaching of Jesus himself who allowed sinners of all stripes to hang around him.

1. The reason some Bishops ban pro-choice politicians is many-fold: a. All Catholics guilty of mortal sin should not receive Holy Communion because it desecrates the Eucharist and thus makes the Catholic more guilty or as St. Paul says "he who partakes of Communion in sin, eats and drinks judgment on to himself" b. Those who persist in grave and public sin can not receive Communion because it may lead to "scandal"- that is others may see and think that the Church condones their actions. 2. Anyway about the Communion-banning, this is usually a last resort, usually the Bishop privately tells the person to refrain from Communion, if the person disobeys then the Bishop can ban. Canon Law actually prohibits unworthy reception of Communion.

2. About the "Why aren't those who support the Iraq war" banned question the answer is simple. Abortion is illicit in all circumstances, War on the other hand can be legitimate in some cases. The Catholic Church has never officially ruled on the Iraq war, thus while many (including Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI) opposed the Iraq war, this is an area of "prudential judgment" where Catholics may legitimately disagree.

3. As for the part about Christ joining the sinners that is true. Just because someone supports abortion does not mean the Church should not love them, and Indeed they do not abandon them- they still have the Sacrament of Penance and can go to Mass, they just can't receive communion. The reason here is so that people don't mistakenly believe the Church condones their actions (and thus to avoid scandalizing the faithful) and another reason is to call that person to conversion and repentance.

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JoeRatz16

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#22 JoeRatz16
Member since 2008 • 697 Posts

[QUOTE="JoeRatz16"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]ZOMG, reverse first ammendment. In all actuality, I would take this to court.Vandalvideo

last time I checked there's no law saying that all people are entitled to be honored at a parade.

No, but there is a statute which state that government may not show any form of favortism to any type of religious affiliations, such to the extent where, as a byproduct, people like these are restricted.

this has nothing to do with the gov't. The parade is organized by private groups. The gov't doesn't sponsor the parade so the parade is a private event.

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ferrari2001

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#23 ferrari2001
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[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"]Just like the last thread you started was an example of an unacceptable intrusion of government into religion, this is an example of an unacceptable intrusion of religion into government. I'm pretty sure that abortion wasn't the huge, controversial issue of St. Patrick's time as it is today, though I'd welcome well-sourced corrections to that line of thought. This is nothing more than a particular Bishop firing a shot across the bow of Democratic politicians similar to the denying of Communion to John Kerry back in 2004 and indirectly telling people that "Good Catholics" shouldn't vote for Democrats. Is he also planning on banning politicians that voted for the Iraq war from joining the parade?

actually it's not intrusion into government. From the way it sound it's a parade and the church plays a big part in it. So by every right, the bishop has the right to ban whoever he wants from the parade.
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#24 nocoolnamejim
Member since 2003 • 15136 Posts
Explains reasoningJoeRatz16
I understand the reason why certain prominent religious figures do as they do. I just disagree with the reasoning.
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LosDaddie

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#25 LosDaddie
Member since 2006 • 10318 Posts

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]

Remember kids; You can't be Christian and a Democrat

Saturos3091

I would much prefer kids to grow up free-thinking, without being confined to one or more selective groups. That way they won't be so set in their ways to benefit their particular "faction," and would be more understanding of others. But I do see what you're saying. :lol:

IT's my hope that as information become more readily available, more kids will question the beliefs and traditions of their elders. :)

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#26 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
Honestly, this is just stupid. So much for separation of church and state...chessmaster1989
Umm. . . SAINT patrick's day - a holiday in celebration of a christian saint? The fact of banning pro-choice people from a religous celebration has nothing to do with separation of church and state. Banning the entire holiday or it celebration using public funds/state property would be true separation of church and state.