it dosent take much to go against the establishment. lots of people do it. and if you're gonna go against it, at least dont LIE to everyone.
H8sMikeMoore
Could you point us to some facts supporting your statement that he lies?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
it dosent take much to go against the establishment. lots of people do it. and if you're gonna go against it, at least dont LIE to everyone.
H8sMikeMoore
Could you point us to some facts supporting your statement that he lies?
[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]it dosent take much to go against the establishment. lots of people do it. and if you're gonna go against it, at least dont LIE to everyone.
ColdRush88
Could you point us to some facts supporting your statement that he lies?
too many sources
soooo:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=michael+moore+lies&btnG=Google+Search
even "moore"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Moore_controversies
Lois: PETER THIS IS THE WORST THINK YOU'VE EVER DONE!?!?!?
Peter: Even worse than the time I sold weapons grade plutonium to the Iranians? (show clip of Peter selling plutonium to people he thinks he can trust).
Bam, just made a Family Guy joke. Explain the genius to me?
Ozzy created an entirely new genre of music. Seth MacFarlane has created two shows that rip off The Simpsons at every turn, and aren't even funny.
swamprat_basic
I laugh when people say that a variation on a bunch of basic popular music principles is an entirely new genre.
[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Ozzy created an entirely new genre of music. Seth MacFarlane has created two shows that rip off The Simpsons at every turn, and aren't even funny.
pianist
I laugh when people say that a variation on a bunch of basic popular music principles is an entirely new genre.
What do you think a genre of music is, if not a set of conventions for a specific type of sound? Black Sabbath created the metal genre, which has splintered into various other genres with different sounds. Are you suggesting it should still all be called "rock" music? Rock is a useless label these days.
Some people see classical music as just "classical," while you might see baroque, romantic, etc. Why would you think rock music is any different?
I wouldn't call potty humor and jokes about alzheimers "genius".
The show has always gone for shock value, and it doesn't take talent to do so.
[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Ozzy created an entirely new genre of music. Seth MacFarlane has created two shows that rip off The Simpsons at every turn, and aren't even funny.
swamprat_basic
I laugh when people say that a variation on a bunch of basic popular music principles is an entirely new genre.
What do you think a genre of music is, if not a set of conventions for a specific type of sound? Black Sabbath created the metal genre, which has splintered into various other genres with different sounds. Are you suggesting it should still all be called "rock" music? Rock is a useless label these days.
You might look at classical music and see baroque, romantic, etc, but to some people it is all just "classical." Why would you think rock music is any different?
Well for starters, Baroque and Romantic are actually different.
As for Seth, he's hardly a genius. Though I do like Family Guy, his comedic style isn't anything special and recently the series has become uninsightful political satire and inane social commentary. Plus I can't stand when shows perpetuate the hilly billy southerner stereotype.
[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Ozzy created an entirely new genre of music. Seth MacFarlane has created two shows that rip off The Simpsons at every turn, and aren't even funny.
Killburglar
I laugh when people say that a variation on a bunch of basic popular music principles is an entirely new genre.
What do you think a genre of music is, if not a set of conventions for a specific type of sound? Black Sabbath created the metal genre, which has splintered into various other genres with different sounds. Are you suggesting it should still all be called "rock" music? Rock is a useless label these days.
You might look at classical music and see baroque, romantic, etc, but to some people it is all just "classical." Why would you think rock music is any different?
Well for starters, Baroque and Romantic are actually different.
Obviously, but so are blues, rock, metal, punk, etc.
What do you think a genre of music is, if not a set of conventions for a specific type of sound? Black Sabbath created the metal genre, which has splintered into various other genres with different sounds. Are you suggesting it should still all be called "rock" music? Rock is a useless label these days.
You might look at classical music and see baroque, romantic, etc, but to some people it is all just "classical." Why would you think rock music is any different?
swamprat_basic
The other 'genres' of metal are really nothing more than more metal in new clothes. It's frankly ridiculous how eager fans of the genre are to create new 'genres' for every slight variation on the same basic set of principles. When you create a genre for every different sound - no matter how slight the differences may be at a fundamental level - the use of genres as a method of categorization becomes totally useless.
As someone else correctly stated, Romantic and Baroque music are VERY different from each other. The only real similarity they share with each other is the use of a tonal musical language and counterpoint. You can't say the same about the dozens of 'genres' of metal or rock. And even despite this, it is still perfectly legitimate to label Baroque music and Romantic music under the genre label of cIassical, as that helps set it apart from other extremely broad genre labels, like jazz, rock, or metal. If someone hears the term cIassical today, they would understand perfectly well that Brahms and Bach both wrote in that style. But they would also know that Brahms and Bach's music is radically different at the fundamental level. So much so that you CAN label them as belonging to different genres, even if both could also belong to the broad cIassical genre.
You know you're treading on dangerous ground when you claim that a single artist is responsible for the creation of a genre. A genre develops as the result of the collective efforts of a great many artists. If we were to break a massive genre like cIassical music into smaller genres the way metal fans do, we'd have literally hundreds of these little genres, because just about every composer we care about at all in the cIassical genre had something very distinctive or ingenious in his or her writing that set him or her apart from the thousands of others who were writing music at the same time.
[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]What do you think a genre of music is, if not a set of conventions for a specific type of sound? Black Sabbath created the metal genre, which has splintered into various other genres with different sounds. Are you suggesting it should still all be called "rock" music? Rock is a useless label these days.
You might look at classical music and see baroque, romantic, etc, but to some people it is all just "classical." Why would you think rock music is any different?
pianist
The other 'genres' of metal are really nothing more than more metal in new clothes. It's frankly ridiculous how eager fans of the genre are to create new 'genres' for every slight variation on the same basic set of principles. When you create a genre for every different sound - no matter how slight the differences may be at a fundamental level - the use of genres as a method of categorization becomes totally useless.
As someone else correctly stated, Romantic and Baroque music are VERY different from each other. The only real similarity they share with each other is the use of a tonal musical language and counterpoint. You can't say the same about the dozens of 'genres' of metal or rock. And even despite this, it is still perfectly legitimate to label Baroque music and Romantic music under the genre label of cIassical, as that helps set it apart from other extremely broad genre labels, like jazz, rock, or metal. If someone hears the term cIassical today, they would understand perfectly well that Brahms and Bach both wrote in that style. But they would also know that Brahms and Bach's music is radically different at the fundamental level. So much so that you CAN label them as belonging to different genres, even if both could also belong to the broad cIassical genre.
You know you're treading on dangerous ground when you claim that a single artist is responsible for the creation of a genre. A genre develops as the result of the collective efforts of a great many artists. If we were to break a massive genre like cIassical music into smaller genres the way metal fans do, we'd have literally hundreds of these little genres, because just about every composer we care about at all in the cIassical genre had something very distinctive or ingenious in his or her writing that set him or her apart from the thousands of others who were writing music at the same time.
You need to be a bit more patient. Rock music hasn't even existed a hundred years. It's easy to look at the genius' of the past and say that they did things "better," when, as you point out in your last sentence, we remember less than 1% of the musicians from the past. The Baroque and Romantic periods are separated by nearly 100 years of musical change.
I'm sure the musicians of the past weren't thinking that they were in the Baroque period, or the Classical period, or the Romantic period. They had their own genres, which nobody bothers to remember today. It's only centuries later that we can label those periods of music with broad terms like Baroque, Classical, or Romantic.
We can't judge the present with our eyes on the past, because the present can never compare to all the works of all the genius' of the past combined.
You need to be a bit more patient. Rock music hasn't even existed a hundred years. It's easy to look at the genius' of the past and say that they did things "better," when, as you point out in your last sentence, we remember less than 1% of the musicians from the past. The Baroque and Romantic periods are separated by nearly 100 years of musical change.
I'm sure the musicians of the past weren't thinking that they were in the Baroque period, or the Classical period, or the Romantic period. They had their own genres, which nobody bothers to remember today. It's only centuries later that we can label those periods of music with broad terms like Baroque, Classical, or Romantic.
We can't judge the present with our eyes on the past, because the present can never compare to all the works of all the genius' of the past combined.
swamprat_basic
That's just it, dude. Rock music has only existed a few decades. Metal has existed for an even shorter period of time than rock has. And yet how many 'genres' do we supposedly have for these two musical styles already? History doesn't have a habit of creating more genres. Rather, it lumps similar music into broader categories, demanding significant differences between musical genres, which is exactly how it should be. In reality, there are not dozens of genres of metal. There is metal, and in the end, that's the only genre category that's going to remain - if it doesn't get lumped in with all other rock-based music, which may very well happen.
You'll also notice that my former comment about who is responsible for a genre holds true as well. The Romantic era, the CIassical era, the Baroque, the Renaissance... not one of them can be pinned on a single artist, or even a few artists. It was the combined efforts of hundreds of composers that led to these distinct musical styles, and they evolved over many decades. Sure, we can and do break down these broad categories. But never to the point where individual artists are credited with creating new genres. Really, it boils down to lumping entire nations or movements into a single genre (like calling early 20th century French music "Impressionist" for instance). And that's very much like recognizing the difference between metal and jazz, without detailing every tiny development in either genre as a new genre, right?
So it all comes back to the same thing. Crediting individual artists (or even small groups) with the creation of a new genre is silly, mainly because such a small body of composers can not hope to create a body of music that will stand up to the march of time as an independent and significant historical movement in music. In the end, our categories are much less specific, and we start talking about all the musical developments in the entire Western world that occurred over many decades as being part of one genre. And only after a lot of time has passed and a lot of evolution has occurred do people wake up and realize how little fundamental difference there really was between all these forms of music that they consider to be so different. Maybe eventually they'll realize how many fundamental similarities that such 'disparate' genres as pop, metal, jazz, rap, and rock share, and start to refer to it as one collective whole, characterized by those fundamental similarities, which are very different from the fundamental similarities of music in the distant past and in the future. That doesn't mean we can't break it down to these smaller categories (each has enough internal variety and independence to be considered a individual), but by recognizing the significant musical similarities they share, we can then start to see the development of an actual musical movement (20th century Western popular music), and that is what really deserves to be called a genre in the end.
This is all coming down to a difference in opinion, and it doesn't take a wall of text to understand that difference.
You think that sub-genres are pointless. I don't.
Obviously, going to the extreme in either direction (too many / too few genres) is pointless, but sub-genres are fundamentally important to understanding how music has changed over this past century. And in this era of instant communcation, it is changing faster than ever.
I do not believe that one can clump this past century's music into a category as vague as "20th Century Western Popular Music," not without seriously understating the change that has occurred. In that time we have gone from ragtime and crooner jazz to today's punk bands, gangsta rap, and techno.
Obviously there are going to be similarities in the basic forms of the music, but there are similarites between all forms of music, present or past.
Obviously there are going to be similarities in the basic forms of the music, but there are similarites between all forms of music, present or past.
swamprat_basic
There's a really big difference between vague similarities (such as the use of tonal harmony, which is incredibly broad), and fundamental similarities. Western popular music in its many guises shares far more fundamental similarities than people think it does. Once again, if you look at the categorization methods of music from the past, you'll realize that eventually you end up with an extremely broad, over-arching genre. If you really wanted to, you could break this genre down into its components (call them subgenres if you wish), but what's the point? The fundamental similarities are still there, and the whole point of the genre cIassification system is to categorize music which is fundamentally different from other forms of music. So although French, Italian, and German Romantic music was stylistically distinct and unique, it was still similar enough to be called Romantic. And Romantic music is similar enough to Baroque to be called cIassical. Adding more labels to this music isn't really going to help a person learn anything about it. In fact, it is a hinderance to understanding the linear progression and constant evolution of Western music.
I'll say no more on this matter. Individuals or small groups of musicians making slight variations to an established set of fundamental musical characteristics does not a genre make. As for music changing faster than ever now... suffice it to say I disagree.
[QUOTE="delol"]You may not like his acid humour .You may not like the way it mocks the American way of life your favorite TV hero or your political party Yet this man whit his singular pipe and kid face is one of the most genial Americans of our age
H8sMikeMoore
his type of humor is pretty easy to come up with. I wouldnt call him a genius nor would I call him anything special.
to be honest I find the animation to be the funniest part. Coupled with the random stuff, its some of the funniest stuff I have ever watched. But it lacks long-lasting impact imo.
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