Should atheists be allowed to marry?

However, many countries across the world do not recognize civil unions, only marriage. You may end up fine and dandy here in the states, but if you and your loved one go on a vacation to a country that does not recognize civil unions, you'll be in for a hard time. Conclusively, it's best we stick with marriage in this discussion.

-Jiggles-

Very valid point. I'm assuming that there's no way to supersede these laws? Damn, that's a back scratcher.

I myself think the "church" of atheism is bogus, since atheism isn't a religion, but a state of mind.

-Jiggles-

I agree with you completely. I just feel like I need to point that out for a laugh. >_>

As for your opinion on marriage requiring a religion, keep in mind that it's just that--an opinion. Your opinion would be hard-pressed if marriage was officially declared a government affair in the future, but that's slowly drifting into the "what if"s territory, which is best left untread.

-Jiggles-

Which is why I don't want it to be declared a government affair.

I agree that marriage is starting to lose it's pure, divine meaning and is slowly turning into a (albeit serious) fad among people, but that shouldn't hold people back from getting married overall. Despite what precautions the government may take to uphold the sanctity and righteousness of marriage, it is still discriminatory in nature to only allow a certain few people to get married, especially considering that marriage has many legal benefits as well.

Marriage may be religious at it's roots (at least according to most religious groups), but the more the government and/or religion "glamorizes" the whole aspect of marriage, the more people you'll see wanting a piece of the pie. The fact that most countries around the world use marriage as a display of social class rank and/or power, it'll only end up pushing back those who are not allowed to be married--in this case, atheists.

-Jiggles-

You make good points, but I'm afraid that none of them, besides the one regarding foreign laws, will change my opinion. :(

lol if a propisiton is against atheists' marriage. CleanPlayer

I think homosexuals should do that, at least from a parody standpoint. :)

Very valid point. I'm assuming that there's no way to supersede these laws? Damn, that's a back scratcher.

Genetic_Code

The only possible way to overcome these laws is if every country in the world banded together and said, "Y'know, those atheists need some lovin' too." This won't be happening anytime soon, though.

I agree with you completely. I just feel like I need to point that out for a laugh. >_>Genetic_Code

The concept of atheism being a religion is laughable at best, trust me.

Which is why I don't want it to be declared a government affair. Genetic_Code

If only we could control our government, but, obviously, that's not how democracy works; one man's opinion will not reign supreme over everybody else's. The best you can do is at least vote on the matter.

You make good points, but I'm afraid that none of them, besides the one regarding foreign laws, will change my opinion. :(

Genetic_Code

I don't expect your opinion to change after a single discussion, especially one taking place on a video gaming forum. I view debates like these as a way of informing the two audiences on information previously unknown to them, further enhancing their own knowledge as a result. After all, knowledge is what pushes humanity forward.

Edit: Damn glitchspot cut my post in half.

By the way, Bible passages would be appreciated. >_>Genetic_Code

lol, k.

First of all. Marriage is a blessing from God - Proverbs 18:22 "He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD."

Marriage, especially marriage between believers, is often analogized to a picture of the Trinity. Though a woman and a man are separate individuals, in Christian marriage they become joined by God as one flesh in a manner analogous to Adam and Eve, who were distinct persons though literally created from the same flesh (Gen. 2:23).

Mark 10:7-9 states, "'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

The book of Hosea is about a man who marries an adulterous wife. It is symbolic of Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32 alludes to this when it say, ""For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church."

The relationships — (a) in the Trinity, (b) between husband and wife, and (c) between Christ and individual believers — are analogous to each other. Each of these relationships points to the unity of individual believers and the Church with Christ and with the Father. Christian marriage is portrayed as the epitome of mutuality. Neither spouse owns her or his own body; that body belongs to the other spouse, and to them both jointly.

2 Corinthians 6:14 states, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" This one of the verses outside of many Old Testament passages that shows Christians should not marry non-Christians. There are other places within scripture which explains what a person should do if their spouse is not a Christian.

I can't think of a place that the Bible directly states whether or not non-Christians can marry one another but marriage is clearly a religious ceremony.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]By the way, Bible passages would be appreciated. >_>mindstorm

lol, k.

First of all. Marriage is a blessing from God - Proverbs 18:22 "He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD."

Marriage, especially marriage between believers, is often analogized to a picture of the Trinity. Though a woman and a man are separate individuals, in Christian marriage they become joined by God as one flesh in a manner analogous to Adam and Eve, who were distinct persons though literally created from the same flesh (Gen. 2:23).

Mark 10:7-9 states, "'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

The book of Hosea is about a man who marries an adulterous wife. It is symbolic of Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32 alludes to this when it say, ""For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church."

The relationships — (a) in the Trinity, (b) between husband and wife, and (c) between Christ and individual believers — are analogous to each other. Each of these relationships points to the unity of individual believers and the Church with Christ and with the Father. Christian marriage is portrayed as the epitome of mutuality. Neither spouse owns her or his own body; that body belongs to the other spouse, and to them both jointly.

2 Corinthians 6:14 states, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" This one of the verses outside of many Old Testament passages that shows Christians should not marry non-Christians. There are other places within scripture which explains what a person should do if their spouse is not a Christian.

I can't think of a place that the Bible directly states whether or not non-Christians can marry one another but marriage is clearly a religious ceremony.

Thanks and you're right about the bolded statement. I couldn't find anything as well.

Lol this is one of the funniest religion questions I've ever heard. Sheesh. Morphic

Well, it's been on my mind for quite awhile.

OH GOD

PLEASE STOP

.

Shad0ki11

Why? >_>

Marriage causes so much trouble. Maybe it should just be done away with.Bloodbath_87

I hope that's a joke.

:lol: Marriage causes so much trouble. Maybe it should just be done away with.Bloodbath_87

Then don't get married... as for me I want to have kids in the future... and that's not happening unless I'm married. ;)

[QUOTE="Bloodbath_87"]:lol: Marriage causes so much trouble. Maybe it should just be done away with.mindstorm

Then don't get married... as for me I want to have kids in the future... and that's not happening unless I'm married. ;)

Why not?Vandalvideo

See sig. :P

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

[QUOTE="Bloodbath_87"]:lol: Marriage causes so much trouble. Maybe it should just be done away with.Vandalvideo

Then don't get married... as for me I want to have kids in the future... and that's not happening unless I'm married. ;)

he one of those religious types

Why not?Vandalvideo

Because he has a crazy thing called "values".

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]By the way, Bible passages would be appreciated. >_>Genetic_Code

lol, k.

First of all. Marriage is a blessing from God - Proverbs 18:22 "He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD."

Marriage, especially marriage between believers, is often analogized to a picture of the Trinity. Though a woman and a man are separate individuals, in Christian marriage they become joined by God as one flesh in a manner analogous to Adam and Eve, who were distinct persons though literally created from the same flesh (Gen. 2:23).

Mark 10:7-9 states, "'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

The book of Hosea is about a man who marries an adulterous wife. It is symbolic of Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32 alludes to this when it say, ""For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church."

The relationships — (a) in the Trinity, (b) between husband and wife, and (c) between Christ and individual believers — are analogous to each other. Each of these relationships points to the unity of individual believers and the Church with Christ and with the Father. Christian marriage is portrayed as the epitome of mutuality. Neither spouse owns her or his own body; that body belongs to the other spouse, and to them both jointly.

2 Corinthians 6:14 states, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" This one of the verses outside of many Old Testament passages that shows Christians should not marry non-Christians. There are other places within scripture which explains what a person should do if their spouse is not a Christian.

I can't think of a place that the Bible directly states whether or not non-Christians can marry one another but marriage is clearly a religious ceremony.

Thanks and you're right about the bolded statement. I couldn't find anything as well.

Because of that I'm not sure what to think on the issue. There is the occasional mention of marriage outside of the faith like that of Matthew 24:38-39 at the mention of Jesus' future return - "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

I do not believe it is right of me to stop non-Christians from marrying one another (same-sex marriage is a different issue), but I do believe marriage is intended for believers. Marriage is for 3 persons, not 2. God, husband, and wife. Those who marry outside of the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship. Whether it is wrong of them to marry, I do not know.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Why not?harashawn

Because he has a crazy thing called "values".

Imagine that. :P

Because of that I'm not sure what to think on the issue. There is the occasional mention of marriage outside of the faith like that of Matthew 24:38-39 at the mention of Jesus' future return - "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

I do not believe it is right of me to stop non-Christians from marrying one another (same-sex marriage is a different issue), but I do believe marriage is intended for believers. Marriage is for 3 persons, not 2. God, husband, and wife. Those who marry outside of the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship. Whether it is wrong of them to marry, I do not know.

mindstorm

Hmm... interesting.

I do look at it to see what the Bible's values are, seeing as how that is the largest religion in the world and assumingly, the one which most values originate from outside of government. I think, as a Christian, it would be hard to assume how to govern non-believers on issues such as these.

But it's been a pleasure. Thanks. :)

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Because of that I'm not sure what to think on the issue. There is the occasional mention of marriage outside of the faith like that of Matthew 24:38-39 at the mention of Jesus' future return - "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

I do not believe it is right of me to stop non-Christians from marrying one another (same-sex marriage is a different issue), but I do believe marriage is intended for believers. Marriage is for 3 persons, not 2. God, husband, and wife. Those who marry outside of the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship. Whether it is wrong of them to marry, I do not know.

Genetic_Code

Hmm... interesting.

I do look at it to see what the Bible's values are, seeing as how that is the largest religion in the world and assumingly, the one which most values originate from outside of government. I think, as a Christian, it would be hard to assume how to govern non-believers on issues such as these.

But it's been a pleasure. Thanks. :)

*bows graciously* :P

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Why not?harashawn

Because he has a crazy thing called "values".

Values are not exclusive to religion, you know? As long as you are devoted to your partner and really serious about your relationship and about the huge responsibility of having kids, whether you're married or not doesn't matter in the slightest.

Why not marriage was never a religious ceremony to begin with as its existed in many forms prior to what people know it was to stand for today.

So they are free to marry if they wish it, they just don't have to conform to the many ways different religions do it.

[QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Why not?black_cat19

Because he has a crazy thing called "values".

Values are not exclusive to religion, you know? As long as you are devoted to your partner and really serious about your relationship and about the huge responsibility of having kids, whether you're married or not doesn't matter in the slightest.

I've known of that happening with a specific couple. After being together many years and having 3 kids they became Christians, got married, and then baptized. It was quite the joyous event.

Why not marriage was never a religious ceremony to begin with as its existed in many forms prior to what people know it was to stand for today.

So they are free to marry if they wish it, they just don't have to conform to the many ways different religions do it.

Zenkuso

Not all believe what you believe about which came first. Christians like myself believe Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, were married. Does that not mean marriage first began as a religious ceremony?

[QUOTE="Bloodbath_87"] Marriage causes so much trouble. Maybe it should just be done away with.harashawn

I hope that's a joke.

[QUOTE="black_cat19"][QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Why not?mindstorm

Because he has a crazy thing called "values".

Values are not exclusive to religion, you know? As long as you are devoted to your partner and really serious about your relationship and about the huge responsibility of having kids, whether you're married or not doesn't matter in the slightest.

I've known of that happening with a specific couple. After being together many years and having 3 kids they became Christians, got married, and then baptized. It was quite the joyous event.

But you do agree they had what it takes to raise kids before they became christian and married, right? The only thing that should stop people from having kids is commitment towards their partner (you shouldn't have kids if you're going to dump your girlfriend for the next "babe" that crosses your path), and most people show this commitment through the act of marriage, but as long as the commitment itself is there, whether or not someone is married should be irrelevant.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="black_cat19"][QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Why not?black_cat19

Because he has a crazy thing called "values".

Values are not exclusive to religion, you know? As long as you are devoted to your partner and really serious about your relationship and about the huge responsibility of having kids, whether you're married or not doesn't matter in the slightest.

I've known of that happening with a specific couple. After being together many years and having 3 kids they became Christians, got married, and then baptized. It was quite the joyous event.

But you do agree they had what it takes to raise kids before they became christian and married, right? The only thing that should stop people from having kids is commitment towards their partner (you shouldn't have kids if you're going to dump your girlfriend for the next "babe" that crosses your path), and most people show this commitment through the act of marriage, but as long as the commitment itself is there, whether or not someone is married should be irrelevant.

Of course I believe it's possible, I just do not believe their marriage reaches it's fullest potential apart from Christ.

I never said I was against non-Christians marrying one another, I just do not believe it can be done by the authority of God. The state can do authorizing.

[QUOTE="Zenkuso"]

Why not marriage was never a religious ceremony to begin with as its existed in many forms prior to what people know it was to stand for today.

So they are free to marry if they wish it, they just don't have to conform to the many ways different religions do it.

mindstorm

Not all believe what you believe about which came first. Christians like myself believe Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, were married. Does that not mean marriage first began as a religious ceremony?

That might be true but adam and eve didn't get married, them being together would have been the only thing they ever knew and to them it would have just been as natural as to call each other family, it wouldn't have been about marriage but circumstance.

If god gave you a women or man and said that this is your partner what could you do about it? nothing.

What god did was give adam someone to keep him company, a friend and companion (that is in definition marriage yes), since god doesn't think like us he would have never added such things as religion into his thoughts, religion was something we invented not god, god might have shown us the path but he certainly never created religion.

The ceremonies of marriage under religious views came after such events, not before or during such a event.

So in essence god would have never thought of religion in his mind when he decided to create eve for adam as a friend and companion, he merely didn't want to see adam lonely and thus come into being eve.

You presumed that marriage is religious.-Iconoclast-

I figured I made that obvious. :?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Zenkuso"]

Why not marriage was never a religious ceremony to begin with as its existed in many forms prior to what people know it was to stand for today.

So they are free to marry if they wish it, they just don't have to conform to the many ways different religions do it.

Zenkuso

Not all believe what you believe about which came first. Christians like myself believe Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, were married. Does that not mean marriage first began as a religious ceremony?

That might be true but adam and eve didn't get married, them being together would have been the only thing they ever knew and to them it would have just been as natural as to call each other family, it wouldn't have been about marriage but circumstance.

If god gave you a women or man and said that this is your partner what could you do about it? nothing.

What god did was give adam someone to keep him company, a friend and companion (that is in definition marriage yes), since god doesn't think like us he would have never added such things as religion into his thoughts, religion was something we invented not god, god might have shown us the path but he certainly never created religion.

The ceremonies of marriage under religious views came after such events, not before or during such a event.

So in essence god would have never thought of religion in his mind when he decided to create eve for adam as a friend and companion, he merely didn't want to see adam lonely and thus come into being eve.

Sounds to me like an arranged marriage... :?

God is the one who ordains the marriage... not being religious or committed...

[QUOTE="black_cat19"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="black_cat19"][QUOTE="harashawn"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Why not?mindstorm

Because he has a crazy thing called "values".

Values are not exclusive to religion, you know? As long as you are devoted to your partner and really serious about your relationship and about the huge responsibility of having kids, whether you're married or not doesn't matter in the slightest.

I've known of that happening with a specific couple. After being together many years and having 3 kids they became Christians, got married, and then baptized. It was quite the joyous event.

But you do agree they had what it takes to raise kids before they became christian and married, right? The only thing that should stop people from having kids is commitment towards their partner (you shouldn't have kids if you're going to dump your girlfriend for the next "babe" that crosses your path), and most people show this commitment through the act of marriage, but as long as the commitment itself is there, whether or not someone is married should be irrelevant.

Of course I believe it's possible, I just do not believe their marriage reaches it's fullest potential apart from Christ.

I never said I was against non-Christians marrying one another, I just do not believe it can be done by the authority of God. The state can do authorizing.

Yeah I know, I was mainly arguing what harashawn said about values, which sounded a whole lot like "only christians have values and that's why mindstorm won't have kids unless he's married" to me.

By the way harashawn, I apologize if I misinterpreted your post.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]By the way, Bible passages would be appreciated. >_>mindstorm

lol, k.

First of all. Marriage is a blessing from God - Proverbs 18:22 "He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD."

Marriage, especially marriage between believers, is often analogized to a picture of the Trinity. Though a woman and a man are separate individuals, in Christian marriage they become joined by God as one flesh in a manner analogous to Adam and Eve, who were distinct persons though literally created from the same flesh (Gen. 2:23).

Mark 10:7-9 states, "'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

The book of Hosea is about a man who marries an adulterous wife. It is symbolic of Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32 alludes to this when it say, ""For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church."

The relationships — (a) in the Trinity, (b) between husband and wife, and (c) between Christ and individual believers — are analogous to each other. Each of these relationships points to the unity of individual believers and the Church with Christ and with the Father. Christian marriage is portrayed as the epitome of mutuality. Neither spouse owns her or his own body; that body belongs to the other spouse, and to them both jointly.

2 Corinthians 6:14 states, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" This one of the verses outside of many Old Testament passages that shows Christians should not marry non-Christians. There are other places within scripture which explains what a person should do if their spouse is not a Christian.

I can't think of a place that the Bible directly states whether or not non-Christians can marry one another but marriage is clearly a religious ceremony.

Thanks and you're right about the bolded statement. I couldn't find anything as well.

Marriage is for 3 persons, not 2. God, husband, and wife.

Kinky.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Marriage is for 3 persons, not 2. God, husband, and wife.

GodLovesDead

Kinky.

Someone should sig this. ;)

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]By the way, Bible passages would be appreciated. >_>mindstorm

lol, k.

First of all. Marriage is a blessing from God - Proverbs 18:22 "He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD."

Marriage, especially marriage between believers, is often analogized to a picture of the Trinity. Though a woman and a man are separate individuals, in Christian marriage they become joined by God as one flesh in a manner analogous to Adam and Eve, who were distinct persons though literally created from the same flesh (Gen. 2:23).

Mark 10:7-9 states, "'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

The book of Hosea is about a man who marries an adulterous wife. It is symbolic of Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32 alludes to this when it say, ""For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church."

The relationships — (a) in the Trinity, (b) between husband and wife, and (c) between Christ and individual believers — are analogous to each other. Each of these relationships points to the unity of individual believers and the Church with Christ and with the Father. Christian marriage is portrayed as the epitome of mutuality. Neither spouse owns her or his own body; that body belongs to the other spouse, and to them both jointly.

2 Corinthians 6:14 states, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" This one of the verses outside of many Old Testament passages that shows Christians should not marry non-Christians. There are other places within scripture which explains what a person should do if their spouse is not a Christian.

I can't think of a place that the Bible directly states whether or not non-Christians can marry one another but marriage is clearly a religious ceremony.

Thanks and you're right about the bolded statement. I couldn't find anything as well.

Because of that I'm not sure what to think on the issue. There is the occasional mention of marriage outside of the faith like that of Matthew 24:38-39 at the mention of Jesus' future return - "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

I do not believe it is right of me to stop non-Christians from marrying one another (same-sex marriage is a different issue), but I do believe marriage is intended for believers. Marriage is for 3 persons, not 2. God, husband, and wife. Those who marry outside of the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship. Whether it is wrong of them to marry, I do not know.

Ohh Mindstorm you were doing so good. Marriage was a ceremony before religion. But to say that it's for 3 people, and you are absolute in your statement that "thost outside the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship" is just wrong. You cannot know every couple's marriage in the world. I could turn it around and add all the barbaric by todays standards that women are to be subservient to their husbands in both the Bible and Qu'ran. There is just as much evidence as this. Moral of the story, to each his own. But marriage, Christmas, and most all traditions pre-date Christianity. People want to act like these things all started 100 years or so after the death of Jesus, but it's just not true. Even the Bible, Torah, and Qu'ran are not books that are original, they have references to each other and stories that are almost identical all the way thru, which wouldn't be a problem if they thought the other 2 groups were going to hell.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Because of that I'm not sure what to think on the issue. There is the occasional mention of marriage outside of the faith like that of Matthew 24:38-39 at the mention of Jesus' future return - "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

I do not believe it is right of me to stop non-Christians from marrying one another (same-sex marriage is a different issue), but I do believe marriage is intended for believers. Marriage is for 3 persons, not 2. God, husband, and wife. Those who marry outside of the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship. Whether it is wrong of them to marry, I do not know.

btaylor2404

Ohh Mindstorm you were doing so good. Marriage was a ceremony before religion. But to say that it's for 3 people, and you are absolute in your statement that "thost outside the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship" is just wrong. You cannot know every couple's marriage in the world. I could turn it around and add all the barbaric by todays standards that women are to be subservient to their husbands in both the Bible and Qu'ran. There is just as much evidence as this. Moral of the story, to each his own. But marriage, Christmas, and most all traditions pre-date Christianity. People want to act like these things all started 100 years or so after the death of Jesus, but it's just not true. Even the Bible, Torah, and Qu'ran are not books that are original, they have references to each other and stories that are almost identical all the way thru, which wouldn't be a problem if they thought the other 2 groups were going to hell.

What you believe marriage truly is and how it began depends on whether or not you believe the Bible to be true.

If you believe the wife is "barbaric by today's standards" according to the Bible then you simply do not understand it very well. One is not above the other, there are simply differing roles for each within a relationship.

I'm aware the holidays are like that...

Of course the Bible refers to the Torah. It's called the Old Testament.

The Qur'an refers to Christianity and Judaism but the only way the latter two refer to the former is mentioning false prophets that would come...

Edit: I hate to leave after such a statement but I'm going to bed... I've got church in about 7 hours. :P

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Because of that I'm not sure what to think on the issue. There is the occasional mention of marriage outside of the faith like that of Matthew 24:38-39 at the mention of Jesus' future return - "For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

I do not believe it is right of me to stop non-Christians from marrying one another (same-sex marriage is a different issue), but I do believe marriage is intended for believers. Marriage is for 3 persons, not 2. God, husband, and wife. Those who marry outside of the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship. Whether it is wrong of them to marry, I do not know.

mindstorm

Ohh Mindstorm you were doing so good. Marriage was a ceremony before religion. But to say that it's for 3 people, and you are absolute in your statement that "thost outside the faith simply will not have the enjoyment of that added relationship" is just wrong. You cannot know every couple's marriage in the world. I could turn it around and add all the barbaric by todays standards that women are to be subservient to their husbands in both the Bible and Qu'ran. There is just as much evidence as this. Moral of the story, to each his own. But marriage, Christmas, and most all traditions pre-date Christianity. People want to act like these things all started 100 years or so after the death of Jesus, but it's just not true. Even the Bible, Torah, and Qu'ran are not books that are original, they have references to each other and stories that are almost identical all the way thru, which wouldn't be a problem if they thought the other 2 groups were going to hell.

What you believe marriage truly is and how it began depends on whether or not you believe the Bible to be true.

According to who? Not the Bible.

If you believe the wife is "barbaric by today's standards" according to the Bible then you simply do not understand it very well. One is not above the other, there are simply differing roles for each within a relationship.

I understand plenty of versus that the woman is to be totally submissive to the Husband, the husband in some verses takes many wives.

I'm aware the holidays are like that...

Which goes to the point I'm making about marriage.

Of course the Bible refers to the Torah. It's called the Old Testament.

True, but the point is all three works, when read back to back are remarkably similar.

The Qur'an refers to Christianity and Judaism but the only way the latter two refer to the former is mentioning false prophets that would come...

False. Abraham. Abraham is the founding "stone" of all 3 religions.

Edit: I hate to leave after such a statement but I'm going to bed... I've got church in about 7 hours. :P

Me too, good night.

[QUOTE="Zenkuso"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Zenkuso"]

Why not marriage was never a religious ceremony to begin with as its existed in many forms prior to what people know it was to stand for today.

So they are free to marry if they wish it, they just don't have to conform to the many ways different religions do it.

mindstorm

Not all believe what you believe about which came first. Christians like myself believe Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, were married. Does that not mean marriage first began as a religious ceremony?

That might be true but adam and eve didn't get married, them being together would have been the only thing they ever knew and to them it would have just been as natural as to call each other family, it wouldn't have been about marriage but circumstance.

If god gave you a women or man and said that this is your partner what could you do about it? nothing.

What god did was give adam someone to keep him company, a friend and companion (that is in definition marriage yes), since god doesn't think like us he would have never added such things as religion into his thoughts, religion was something we invented not god, god might have shown us the path but he certainly never created religion.

The ceremonies of marriage under religious views came after such events, not before or during such a event.

So in essence god would have never thought of religion in his mind when he decided to create eve for adam as a friend and companion, he merely didn't want to see adam lonely and thus come into being eve.

Sounds to me like an arranged marriage... :?

God is the one who ordains the marriage... not being religious or committed...

Ok bad way of putting it.

Imagine your the only thing that exists in a white void that stretchs for infinity and then suddenly a person (female) pops into exist in that white void to exist with you in that white void, do you consider that marriage if no one told you otherwise that this person for such a reason?

No where in biblical text does it say that god told adam or eve about marriage or the concept of it, we assume that god put them together for such a reason (to help tend the garden of eden) but most never think about if they knew that themselves of these concepts, to them they would have been the only things of the like to each other.

Eve was created to help adam, not to be his lover, that was something that developed later.

So god didn't create the concept of marriage, all he did was accept what had occur by adam and eves own doing.

Its like when you see rain for the first time, you just accept that its occured and move onward, so it was never a religous ceremony or started as such it was more something that occured and was accepted that nothing could be done about it.

God knew love to be good and simply accepted such a occurance by adam and eve.

To say it was arranged as such a occurance we will never know, thats the trail of faith, you believe to believe or believe not to believe.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

If they want to be married in a church, then they need the church's blessing, just like anybody else. . . but forbidding them to marry is kinda ridiculous.

They just shouldn't be allowed to adopt. Because we all know an atheist's favorite diet.:x

Superbored

The blood of virgins:twisted:

Yeah, given that religious people don't have a monopoly on love.Funky_Llama

This was about marriage, not about love. Love =/= marriage.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Yeah, given that religious people don't have a monopoly on love.Genetic_Code

This was about marriage, not about love. Love =/= marriage.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Yeah, given that religious people don't have a monopoly on love.Funky_Llama

This was about marriage, not about love. Love =/= marriage.

It that's all marriage is why do we need somebody else to witness it and marry us? Eg God/goverment/anything other.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Yeah, given that religious people don't have a monopoly on love.123625

This was about marriage, not about love. Love =/= marriage.

It that's all marriage is why do we need somebody else to witness it and marry us? Eg God/goverment/anything other.