Should drinking be considered as bad as smoking?

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

Alcohol is bad your your liver, too. Both your liver and your lungs recover pretty quickly, unless you're a heavy smoker or drinker.

LJS9502_basic

That's what I meant, if you stop smoking and didn't smoke too much in the first place your lungs could fully recover. I've had an alcohol intoxication a long time ago and believe me it is terrible.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The argument isn't over your freedom to smoke. And there is nothing healthy about smoking. Even one smoke effects the lungs. Sure....it's not going to kill you...but it is adverse for lungs.MrGeezer

What are the long-term effects of smoking one cigarette?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="bloodling"]

Alcohol is bad your your liver, too. Both your liver and your lungs recover pretty quickly, unless you're a heavy smoker or drinker.

bloodling

That's what I meant, if you stop smoking and didn't smoke too much in the first place your lungs could fully recover. I've had an alcohol intoxication a long time ago and believe me it is terrible.

Which are immaterial to the equation. There is nothing healthy about smoking. It does affect the lungs. Whether long tern or short term....it's not healthy.LJS9502_basic

So unhealthy that your lungs quickly recover from any damage?

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The argument isn't over your freedom to smoke. And there is nothing healthy about smoking. Even one smoke effects the lungs. Sure....it's not going to kill you...but it is adverse for lungs.LJS9502_basic

What are the long-term effects of smoking one cigarette?

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The argument isn't over your freedom to smoke. And there is nothing healthy about smoking. Even one smoke effects the lungs. Sure....it's not going to kill you...but it is adverse for lungs.LJS9502_basic

What are the long-term effects of smoking one cigarette?

IF you drink too much water you can die....but we don't consider water a determent to society.LJS9502_basic

I know I was just making a point, there are so many things to take into account, alcohol poisoning, drunk driving, obesity... Sure, smoking is way worse in terms of deaths.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Which are immaterial to the equation. There is nothing healthy about smoking. It does affect the lungs. Whether long tern or short term....it's not healthy.MrGeezer

So unhealthy that your lungs quickly recover from any damage?

If you do both responsibly, then smoking is worse for your health. However, if you do either irresponsibly, then drinking is far worse, as you can get other people hurt or killed.

Yeah smoking has no positive effect, alcohol has some.. That was the discussion.. And smoking is worse for you.. Also smoking is a lot more addictive and will lead to more problemsStrider_91

Again, heroin has some positive effect. Positive effect is sort of irrelevant if most of the people using it aren't using it in such a way as to benefit their health.

If you do both responsibly, then smoking is worse for your health. However, if you do either irresponsibly, then drinking is far worse, as you can get other people hurt or killed.

xionvalkyrie

Again...not the argument. Smoking is not good for lungs. LJS9502_basic

Sure it's relevant to the argument. If the "damage" caused by one cigarette is completely negligible, then it's pretty hard to conclude that one cigarette is going to hurt you.

[QUOTE="Strider_91"]Yeah smoking has no positive effect, alcohol has some.. That was the discussion.. And smoking is worse for you.. Also smoking is a lot more addictive and will lead to more problemsMrGeezer

Again, heroin has some positive effect. Positive effect is sort of irrelevant if most of the people using it aren't using it in such a way as to benefit their health.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Again...not the argument. Smoking is not good for lungs. MrGeezer

Sure it's relevant to the argument. If the "damage" caused by one cigarette is completely negligible, then it's pretty hard to conclude that one cigarette is going to hurt you.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Again...not the argument. Smoking is not good for lungs. MrGeezer

Sure it's relevant to the argument. If the "damage" caused by one cigarette is completely negligible, then it's pretty hard to conclude that one cigarette is going to hurt you.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="Strider_91"]Yeah smoking has no positive effect, alcohol has some.. That was the discussion.. And smoking is worse for you.. Also smoking is a lot more addictive and will lead to more problemsStrider_91

Again, heroin has some positive effect. Positive effect is sort of irrelevant if most of the people using it aren't using it in such a way as to benefit their health.

Yes, and that is excessive smoking.

I'm sort of confused here. Why is it fair game to characterize smoking as bad because people do it excessively, while with other drugs we're supposed to disregard instances of "excessive" use?

How many people die in car accidents due to tobacco intoxication?goth_bacon

[QUOTE="goth_bacon"]How many people die in car accidents due to tobacco intoxication?LJS9502_basic

I think we as a society are walking a fine line when we start labeling consumable substances or foods "bad" and use that as an excuse to tax it or outlaw it. To answer you question though, as a drug I believe alcohol's effects are much more dangerous in the short run, but not as bad in the long as cigarettes.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Again...not the argument. Smoking is not good for lungs. LJS9502_basic

Sure it's relevant to the argument. If the "damage" caused by one cigarette is completely negligible, then it's pretty hard to conclude that one cigarette is going to hurt you.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="goth_bacon"]How many people die in car accidents due to tobacco intoxication?Strider_91

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Sure it's relevant to the argument. If the "damage" caused by one cigarette is completely negligible, then it's pretty hard to conclude that one cigarette is going to hurt you.

jalexbrown

I should point you to this. There, I've found an actual study that suggests one benefit of smoking.jalexbrown

Don't forget that smoking makes you smarter, too!

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"] I should point you to this. There, I've found an actual study that suggests one benefit of smoking.bloodling

Don't forget that smoking makes you smarter, too!

[QUOTE="bloodling"]

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"] I should point you to this. There, I've found an actual study that suggests one benefit of smoking.Strider_91

Don't forget that smoking makes you smarter, too!

Not for too long, though.

[QUOTE="Strider_91"][QUOTE="bloodling"]

Don't forget that smoking makes you smarter, too!

bloodling

Not for too long, though.

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]One cigarette is not good for you lungs. We are not merely talking about long term effects here.;)LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"] I should point you to There, I've found an actual study that suggests one benefit of smoking.jalexbrown

I was suppose to sarcastic! :x :lol: I've just realised another point from that.. How it affects your.. "little buddy"Strider_91

...:cry:

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The straight dope dude?:|

LJS9502_basic

In the paragraph I posted, nicotine is specifically mentioned.jalexbrown

My father is one of the guys who actually gives nicotine to patients, it is legit.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"] I know that the article is mostly garbage, but there is at least one good paragraph in there that actually gives information and - gasp - sources. jalexbrown

[QUOTE="Strider_91"]I was suppose to sarcastic! :x :lol: I've just realised another point from that.. How it affects your.. "little buddy"bloodling

...:cry:

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Well that is about marijuans first of all....and second...it's disputed by some sources. Though alcohol...forget which particular one is supposed to help with that same disease...and it's legal if you of age. I'll see if I can find the info.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"] In the paragraph I posted, nicotine is specifically mentioned.jalexbrown

Bloodling, i apologise :P Which side do you think is more dangerous to you? Didn't catch your opinion.. :DStrider_91

I try to smoke less than 4 times a day and I don't drink too much because it makes you fat. Both have the potential to be terrible.

[QUOTE="jalexbrown"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]This newer study not only negataes that but considers it doubles the risk...

LJS9502_basic

Again, I'd like an answer here.

People here are repeatedly taking evidence that alcohol is dangerous, and categorically dismissing it on the grounds that, "that's only excessive alcohol use, which says nothing about how bad the alcohol is." These same people then bring up EXCESSIVE tobacco use as proof that tobacco is "worse" than alcohol.

Why the hypocrisy?

Again, I'd like an answer here.

People here are repeatedly taking evidence that alcohol is dangerous, and categorically dismissing it on the grounds that, "that's only excessive alcohol use, which says nothing about how bad the alcohol is." These same people then bring up EXCESSIVE tobacco use as proof that tobacco is "worse" than alcohol.

Why the hypocrisy?

MrGeezer

Yeah, okay...

Not quite. Alcohol is only bad for the liver if done in excess. The liver easily removes alcohol unless it's overwhelmed with it...which again goes back to the abuse of alcohol and not alcohol in moderation.LJS9502_basic

Now, do you think that the people in this thread are talking about "smokers" who only have a cigar on New Year's Eve? Or habitual smokers who have a habit of smoking cigarettes frequently? I'm not even talking about just you, but MANY people here are comparing excessive use of one drug to safe use of a different drug. The entire point of this thread is as a means of comparing the two drugs, and we have right from the start eliminated the conditions by which the two can be fairly compared.

Yeah, okay...

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Not quite. Alcohol is only bad for the liver if done in excess. The liver easily removes alcohol unless it's overwhelmed with it...which again goes back to the abuse of alcohol and not alcohol in moderation.MrGeezer

Now, do you think that the people in this thread are talking about "smokers" who only have a cigar on New Year's Eve? Or habitual smokers who have a habit of smoking cigarettes frequently? I'm not even talking about just you, but MANY people here are comparing excessive use of one drug to safe use of a different drug. The entire point of this thread is as a means of comparing the two drugs, and we have right from the start eliminated the conditions by which the two can be fairly compared.

i'd rather people smoke than drink. I dont do either, but at least smoking cannot indirectly kill me or harm others as alchol can with drunk driving, rape, fighting, and other stupid things people do when theyre drunk. I get that there is second hand smoke, but that is really easy to avoid.

id assume that alcohol leads to a more premature deaths than smoking does, dont have any stats though, but i hear alot more about people dying young from drinking rather than smoking.

Out of context posts quotes...have to love them.:lol: That was in response to someone stating alcohol damages the liver...which it does...in excess. Not in moderation and has nothing to do with the fact that there are many health benefits to drinking....but none from smoking.LJS9502_basic

Exactly what I said. Every time the dangers of drinking are brought up, they are categorically dismissed.

i'd rather people smoke than drink. I dont do either, but at least smoking cannot indirectly kill me or harm others as alchol can with drunk driving, rape, fighting, and other stupid things people do when theyre drunk. I get that there is second hand smoke, but that is really easy to avoid.

id assume that alcohol leads to a more premature deaths than smoking does, dont have any stats though, but i hear alot more about people dying young from drinking rather than smoking.

afflictatrophy

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Out of context posts quotes...have to love them.:lol: That was in response to someone stating alcohol damages the liver...which it does...in excess. Not in moderation and has nothing to do with the fact that there are many health benefits to drinking....but none from smoking.MrGeezer

Exactly what I said. Every time the dangers of drinking are brought up, they are categorically dismissed.

Second-hand smoke probably kills more people than all second-hand alcohol-related deaths combined.jalexbrown

The thing about that is that with smoking banned in nearly all public places, it's not hard to avoid. The people inhaling second-hand smoke can often be seen as willingly exposing themselves to it. That's their choice, just like it's someone's choice to smoke.

I'd wager that fewer people are killed by "second-hand alcohol related situations", but those often end up being situations in which the other person DIDN'T choose to get involved. It's easier to avoid second-hand smoke than it is to avoid some drunk person who's either driving intoxicated or just plain looking for someone to beat up.

[QUOTE="afflictatrophy"]

i'd rather people smoke than drink. I dont do either, but at least smoking cannot indirectly kill me or harm others as alchol can with drunk driving, rape, fighting, and other stupid things people do when theyre drunk. I get that there is second hand smoke, but that is really easy to avoid.

id assume that alcohol leads to a more premature deaths than smoking does, dont have any stats though, but i hear alot more about people dying young from drinking rather than smoking.

jalexbrown

ya it is possible, it would make sense. I just find it easier to avoid smokers is all. So i guess I meant I would be more likely for me to die from a drunk driver than second hand smoke.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Out of context posts quotes...have to love them.:lol: That was in response to someone stating alcohol damages the liver...which it does...in excess. Not in moderation and has nothing to do with the fact that there are many health benefits to drinking....but none from smoking.LJS9502_basic

Exactly what I said. Every time the dangers of drinking are brought up, they are categorically dismissed.

And as I stated, this isn't just about you. MANY people in this thread have been comparing moderate alcohol use to excessive tobacco use.

If you weren't doing it, then what are you getting defensive about?

However, IF we're going to bring up the dangers of excessive tobacco use (as many people were doing), then the dangers of excessive alcohol use are absolutely still relevant as a point of comparison.