Should the entire US speak english? Should we pay for classes for immigrants?

What harm does it do you if another person speaks spanish or polish or whatever it may be? So long as they can go about their life easy enough, why should they be forced to speak your language? :|Ninja-Bear

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="leviathan91"]

It's a hard language to learn but never-the-less, immigrants should still learn to speak it if they want to get ahead in the USA. But the bilingual classes are a joke and *insert minority* history month. We shouldn't be adopting their whatever culture or language they practice, it should be the opposite.

imaps3fanboy

[QUOTE="Ninja-Bear"]What harm does it do you if another person speaks spanish or polish or whatever it may be? So long as they can go about their life easy enough, why should they be forced to speak your language? :|MikeV54

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"][QUOTE="lightleggy"] dude are you fricking serious? english is one of the easiest languages to learn...you wanna know hard languages? spanish, german and mandarin...those are hard...this comes from a latin (I am latin) english has got to be the easiest language that some foreigner can learn as their second language, after portuguese and french...but seriously english is not hard at all! its just that in latinamerica, the english classes in elementary and high school suck! they teach you things that a toddler knows when you are in 10th grade...how do they expect to see progress in english like that?lightleggy

Yeah, immigrants should learn English. If you are going to live in a country you should speak the language of that country. I don't want to have to learn a second language just to be able to communicate with others in my own country.Spanish becoming almost as common in America as English is just ridiculous. We should have a slogan "English or gtfo"

Duxsox56

Why is that ridiculous? Just so you know, Spaniards were in the USA long before english colonists.... Don't like it? Too bad. America has no "official language". It is a land made up of different cultures and it's a melting pot. I believe it's beneficial for Americans to learn as many languages as possible to get by. My ancesotrs spoke Spanish & English.... I even had one great uncle who was a polyglot. It's beneficial for all Americans to learn as many languages as they can. There's no official language. What harm does it do to you if someone speaks Spanish? None. So long as they can go about their life it doesn't matter what language they speak.

Speak English, No we should not have to pay. Why do we have to pay for them when they come to our country? They need to learn the language to be functional, they choose to come here, they pay.

Don't you have to go through some sort of test, evaluation before you legally immagrate into a country? surely they would expect a basic understanding of the main language from that..

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"] Very false. Chinese, english, and a few other asian languages are the hardest. Spanish is one of the easiestStanley09

Maybe we should be mandating that U.S. citizens stop being so lazy and apathetic when it comes to learning a second language and make them learn Spanish, that seems to work out pretty well in Quebec for French. In fact, we should do that if only for the fact that the percentage of the natural-born population that speaks a second language is incredibly low in comparison to most other post-industrial countries, many people in Europe speak at least a second language if not a third or fourth, and most of the people coming out of our high schools can't speak a second. We need to start getting tougher on education standards, and mandating a second language be learned should be one of the first steps to that.

Maybe we should be mandating that U.S. citizens stop being so lazy and apathetic when it comes to learning a second language and make them learn Spanish, that seems to work out pretty well in Quebec for French. In fact, we should do that if only for the fact that the percentage of the natural-born population that speaks a second language is incredibly low in comparison to most other post-industrial countries, many people in Europe speak at least a second language if not a third or fourth, and most of the people coming out of our high schools can't speak a second. We need to start getting tougher on education standards, and mandating a second language be learned should be one of the first steps to that.

theone86

Why should we use tax payer dollars for that? Is someone decides to come to the country, it is their responsibility to learn the language. It is not our responsibility to pay for them to learn.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

It's a hard language to learn but never-the-less, immigrants should still learn to speak it if they want to get ahead in the USA. But the bilingual classes are a joke and *insert minority* history month. We shouldn't be adopting their whatever culture or language they practice, it should be the opposite.

lightleggy

You know what? I think it depends on the person's original language and how long they have spoken their new language. And since english is a common langauge across the world, it's probably easier for some to understand. For others, not so becasuse of their original language. I'm not going to get into more detail but there's how the person speaks and how he/she uses subjects and verbs and etc and etc.

But english is still a hard language for most people. The people I work with can barley speak english at all.

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="leviathan91"]

It's a hard language to learn but never-the-less, immigrants should still learn to speak it if they want to get ahead in the USA. But the bilingual classes are a joke and *insert minority* history month. We shouldn't be adopting their whatever culture or language they practice, it should be the opposite.

leviathan91

You know what? I think it depends on the person's original language and how long they have spoken their new language. And since english is a common langauge across the world, it's probably easier for some to understand. For others, not so becasuse of their original language. I'm not going to get into more detail but there's how the person speaks and how he/she uses subjects and verbs and etc and etc.

But english is still a hard language for most people. The people I work with can barley speak english at all.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="lightleggy"] dude are you fricking serious? english is one of the easiest languages to learn...you wanna know hard languages? spanish, german and mandarin...those are hard...this comes from a latin (I am latin) english has got to be the easiest language that some foreigner can learn as their second language, after portuguese and french...but seriously english is not hard at all! its just that in latinamerica, the english classes in elementary and high school suck! they teach you things that a toddler knows when you are in 10th grade...how do they expect to see progress in english like that?lightleggy

You know what? I think it depends on the person's original language and how long they have spoken their new language. And since english is a common langauge across the world, it's probably easier for some to understand. For others, not so becasuse of their original language. I'm not going to get into more detail but there's how the person speaks and how he/she uses subjects and verbs and etc and etc.

But english is still a hard language for most people. The people I work with can barley speak english at all.

No I live in the United States.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Maybe we should be mandating that U.S. citizens stop being so lazy and apathetic when it comes to learning a second language and make them learn Spanish, that seems to work out pretty well in Quebec for French. In fact, we should do that if only for the fact that the percentage of the natural-born population that speaks a second language is incredibly low in comparison to most other post-industrial countries, many people in Europe speak at least a second language if not a third or fourth, and most of the people coming out of our high schools can't speak a second. We need to start getting tougher on education standards, and mandating a second language be learned should be one of the first steps to that.

Atheists_Pwn

Well, for one it's not just the people coming here, it's the people born here as well. Many people grow up in Spanish-speaking homes and don't experience English until they go to school. Two, Spanish is the fastest growing language in the U.S. right now and it is estimated may have almost as much influence as English before long, I really don't see how learning a language that is a first language to almost as many people as English is a bad thing. Third, it wouldn't have to be a demand if we took a little initiative and encouraged our children to learn a second language in the first place, but we have been incredibly lax in that regard and as a result our profeciency in foreign languages is far behind all other post-industrial countries. The language in question aside, there is no reason that every American that graduates high school isn't at least mildly fluent in a second language, it's no different than demanding math or science requirements.

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="theone86"]

Maybe we should be mandating that U.S. citizens stop being so lazy and apathetic when it comes to learning a second language and make them learn Spanish, that seems to work out pretty well in Quebec for French. In fact, we should do that if only for the fact that the percentage of the natural-born population that speaks a second language is incredibly low in comparison to most other post-industrial countries, many people in Europe speak at least a second language if not a third or fourth, and most of the people coming out of our high schools can't speak a second. We need to start getting tougher on education standards, and mandating a second language be learned should be one of the first steps to that.

theone86

Well, for one it's not just the people coming here, it's the people born here as well. Many people grow up in Spanish-speaking homes and don't experience English until they go to school. Two, Spanish is the fastest growing language in the U.S. right now and it is estimated may have almost as much influence as English before long, I really don't see how learning a language that is a first language to almost as many people as English is a bad thing. Third, it wouldn't have to be a demand if we took a little initiative and encouraged our children to learn a second language in the first place, but we have been incredibly lax in that regard and as a result our profeciency in foreign languages is far behind all other post-industrial countries. The language in question aside, there is no reason that every American that graduates high school isn't at least mildly fluent in a second language, it's no different than demanding math or science requirements.

[QUOTE="lightleggy"][QUOTE="leviathan91"]

It's a hard language to learn but never-the-less, immigrants should still learn to speak it if they want to get ahead in the USA. But the bilingual classes are a joke and *insert minority* history month. We shouldn't be adopting their whatever culture or language they practice, it should be the opposite.

leviathan91

You know what? I think it depends on the person's original language and how long they have spoken their new language. And since english is a common langauge across the world, it's probably easier for some to understand. For others, not so becasuse of their original language. I'm not going to get into more detail but there's how the person speaks and how he/she uses subjects and verbs and etc and etc.

But english is still a hard language for most people. The people I work with can barley speak english at all.

This is mostly correct. A lot of people that I know whose second language is English say they can speak it well mostly because of all the American media they've consumed, you'd be surprised how fast people can absorb any language without formal training when they're immersed in it. Your first language also determines how easily you canlearn other languages. Spanish is considered and easy language in part because so many parts of the world speak a language derived from Latin. I've heard people comment on how easy it is to learn French when their first language is Spanish and vice versa. Another is location, it's usually very easy for people to learn languages that evolved in regions in close proximity to those in which their own language evolved, for instance Dutch and French.

The thing with English is partly because it's so recent, whereas Germanic, Arabic, and Asian languages date back much further. English has the scope that it does due to the scope of the British Empire, which is an extremely recent Empire in comparison to others. The other thing is that it not only doesn't use the same form as many other languages but has an incredible number of quirky rules, who, whom, etc. Whereas many languages have gender rules, proper subject forms, and more standardized verb conjugation English bucks a lot of these in many cases or sometimes altogether. Not that it's necessarily the hardest, Mandarin is notoriously hard, and I've heard Arabic is as well for many of the same reasons, but it is one of the harder languages out there.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"] im not opposed to learning other languages. I have a laundry list of languages I want to learn but I think if you want everyone to speak english in this country, then you must make a logical conclusion to that end. I think demanding us to learn a second language and not the people coming here is hypocriticalAtheists_Pwn

Well, for one it's not just the people coming here, it's the people born here as well. Many people grow up in Spanish-speaking homes and don't experience English until they go to school. Two, Spanish is the fastest growing language in the U.S. right now and it is estimated may have almost as much influence as English before long, I really don't see how learning a language that is a first language to almost as many people as English is a bad thing. Third, it wouldn't have to be a demand if we took a little initiative and encouraged our children to learn a second language in the first place, but we have been incredibly lax in that regard and as a result our profeciency in foreign languages is far behind all other post-industrial countries. The language in question aside, there is no reason that every American that graduates high school isn't at least mildly fluent in a second language, it's no different than demanding math or science requirements.

Possibly, here are a few thigns to consider:

One, most first generation citizens do learn English, it's not like there's a cadre of immigrants who don't speak word one and don't teach their children to speak word one. Most of the people who don't speak English are older people, the people who actually immigrated here and who don't feel it's worht their trouble to learn a new language for whatever reason. They get by perfectly fine, they either have people who can help them with translation or they go to Spanish-speaking communities for what they need, either way I don't see the issue with them not speaking English.

Two, what many people fear and what can actually be observed happening is the loss of a culture when they move to a new country. Most first and second generation citizens maintain strong ties to their culture, but many third generation and beyond citizens start to lose their link to their culture as they speak English more often and start to favor it. I think this gets back to the metaphor of the metling pot and how it's described as inaccurate because in a melting pot every ingredient loses what makes it distinct to contribute to a completely new and different entity. Many people don't want to see that happen, they want different cultures to co-exist without having to give up what makes them unique. What they see is a lot of the younger generations favoring English while English speakers refuse to learn their language, it can't just be a one-way street.

And like I said before, most of thefirst gen citizens do learn English. Besides, if we're mandating a second language then that would be for everyone that graduates high school, Spanish-speakers as well.

[QUOTE="Stanley09"][QUOTE="lightleggy"] very very very false. english is one of the easiest languages to learn worldwide (one of the reasons why is the "universal" language) spanish is considered one of the hardest because its one of the languages with most words, gramatical and sintaxical laws and other stuff, for example tildes...my main language is spanish, and yet I still dont know how to use tildes properly, same for 80% of the hispanics.lightleggy

Im going to change the topic title since it seems nobody thinks its worth reading the content of the threadAtheists_Pwn

If you're moving to a country, you should learn the language fluently. You don't have to be perfect, just know it well enough that you're easily understood. If you want to become a citizen and you need classes to learn the language, pay your own way.XilePrincess

I really don't think immigrants not speaking English is a huge problem. Look at the influx of Italian, and Irish, and German immigrants in the past though many of them didn't bother learning English their children did, and now their considered great contributers to society.

People should do whatever they want... Although getting English lessons would be beneficial to somebody living in a country in which the English language dominates, they shouldn't be obliged to do so.

[QUOTE="XilePrincess"]If you're moving to a country, you should learn the language fluently. You don't have to be perfect, just know it well enough that you're easily understood. If you want to become a citizen and you need classes to learn the language, pay your own way.Atheists_Pwn

Welcome to America. It's called personal responsibility or the "you're on your own pal" philosophy.

Speak English= required for visa, UNLESS they are highly skilled (as in, medicine or advanced engineering, not something like a history major or something) or a refugee, in that case we will pay for their classes. Otherwise, learn English, then you can apply.

Free classes? Ok, give me free classes to get my master's.

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="XilePrincess"]If you're moving to a country, you should learn the language fluently. You don't have to be perfect, just know it well enough that you're easily understood. If you want to become a citizen and you need classes to learn the language, pay your own way.leviathan91

Welcome to America. It's called personal responsibility or the "you're on your own pal" philosophy.

People should do whatever they want... Although getting English lessons would be beneficial to somebody living in a country in which the English language dominates, they shouldn't be obliged to do so.

Leejjohno

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

People should do whatever they want... Although getting English lessons would be beneficial to somebody living in a country in which the English language dominates, they shouldn't be obliged to do so.

Atheists_Pwn

It was directed at anybody who figured immigrants do have an obligation, which a lot of people do... Which is unjustified.

[QUOTE="XilePrincess"]If you're moving to a country, you should learn the language fluently. You don't have to be perfect, just know it well enough that you're easily understood. If you want to become a citizen and you need classes to learn the language, pay your own way.Atheists_Pwn

If people can get by without speaking English, so be it. I don't really like the overly patriotic sensationalistic idea of a "national language." People will learn to communicate. It's how humanity survives. If people want to learn English, then they should pay for it themselves.

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

People should do whatever they want... Although getting English lessons would be beneficial to somebody living in a country in which the English language dominates, they shouldn't be obliged to do so.

Atheists_Pwn

The reality is that nothing is free, money-wise. Everything has a profit motive and so will language classes and I would much perfer that than "free" classes.

I think speaking English should be a requirement for citizenship. However this might fly in the face of a Bill of Rights law (I think) that says that everyone is treated equally no matter what language they speak or what color of skin they have or whatever religion, etc.

If I was planning on going to a country, whether it be to live there or just to visit. I would wanna learn that countries primary spoken language.

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

People should do whatever they want... Although getting English lessons would be beneficial to somebody living in a country in which the English language dominates, they shouldn't be obliged to do so.

leviathan91

The reality is that nothing is free, money-wise. Everything has a profit motive and so will language classes and I would much perfer that than "free" classes.

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="XilePrincess"]If you're moving to a country, you should learn the language fluently. You don't have to be perfect, just know it well enough that you're easily understood. If you want to become a citizen and you need classes to learn the language, pay your own way.Rocky32189

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"][QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

People should do whatever they want... Although getting English lessons would be beneficial to somebody living in a country in which the English language dominates, they shouldn't be obliged to do so.

Leejjohno

It was directed at anybody who figured immigrants do have an obligation, which a lot of people do... Which is unjustified.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

[QUOTE="Atheists_Pwn"] i dont think i ever said anything about obligation, rather that they should be given free english classes.Atheists_Pwn

The reality is that nothing is free, money-wise. Everything has a profit motive and so will language classes and I would much perfer that than "free" classes.

But it's still a part of everyday life, wheather you deny it or not. Yeah, I bet you'll have some charities to help immigrants learn english but at a massive scale? You have to be concerned with quality, hiring of teachers, government support or regulation, classrooms, and locations.