so green energy/going green in general. for or against?

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]against green politics and for renewable energy.Radiatedrich91

^ This is probably the most intelligent post on here so far.

[QUOTE="Radiatedrich91"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]against green politics and for renewable energy.Serraph105

^ This is probably the most intelligent post on here so far.

Well the problem is, the left tends to use climate change as a scare tactic just as the right uses terrorism.

Regardless of the environment the fact is most of our energy comes from fossel fuels. Fossel fuels are limited and are running out. Unless we want to jump back to the dark ages in the next several decades we need to develop alternate forms of energy. Personally I advocate a power grid based on nuclear and supplemented to whatever extent possible with solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, etc and electric vehicles. With R&D electrics will become just as fast, and just as powerful of internal combustion engines. They're already well on their way in that regard.

Regardless of the environment the fact is most of our energy comes from fossel fuels. Fossel fuels are limited and are running out. Unless we want to jump back to the dark ages in the next several decades we need to develop alternate forms of energy. Personally I advocate a power grid based on nuclear and supplemented to whatever extent possible with solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, etc and electric vehicles. With R&D electrics will become just as fast, and just as powerful of internal combustion engines. They're already well on their way in that regard.

worlock77

There are always things you can do to help the environment and in some ways cut costs. I guess i'm for it. But there are a lot of things I won't do just because its too time consuming or expensive.

Not a big fan... mostly because going green sometimes hurts the environment more than it helps. Basically these days green is a marketing slogan.

Here's a few things about going green.

It cost energy investment to create goods made from recycled material is 2X that of non-recycled goods. The one resource that's hardest to obtain, and the most harmful to the environment is being used 2X more so idiots can feel good about themselves.

Fuel efficient cars - If you need a new car sure buy something that runs cleaner, and saves fuel. Most new car buyers don't need a new car. Their old one works perfectly fine, but their neighbor got a new one, and they feel they need a new one also. Cars don't just materialize out of thin air, and it's estimated that 20% of a car's eco footprint comes from the manufacturing of the car itself.

I am kinda for kinda against. I don't believe in global warming/climate change, what ever the hell they call it now. I dont believe anything that comes out of Al Gore's fat face either. But we will eventually run out of fossil fuels I would imagine, so I guess we don't really have an option...

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

How are we hurting the enviornment?

Serraph105

well they say a picture is worth a thousand words

known as the great pacific garbage patch

Huh?

That looks like a man-of-war "jellyfish".

I want a 99% renewable energy house. With geo-thermal, solar power, and wind turbines, I can see this happening in my future. The problem? It's going to cost me a lot of money up front. I'll do it piece by piece if I have to. The peace of mind knowing that my energy bill is going to be next to nothing every month is incredibly motivating.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] Can you explain a bit further? Is your thought that people in general don't have a good idea about what the environment is or that we don't have a good understanding of our overall impact upon it? Put a different way, some people believe that there is no such thing as man-made climate change. Is that the viewpoint you are expressing?nocoolnamejim

Now assume that if you wait long enough, that your freaking HOUSE will start farting. And that those farts will be a thousand times worse than anything that Brandon could produce.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

How are we hurting the enviornment?

MrGeezer

well they say a picture is worth a thousand words

known as the great pacific garbage patch

Huh?

That looks like a man-of-war "jellyfish".

I am kinda for kinda against. I don't believe in global warming/climate change, what ever the hell they call it now. I dont believe anything that comes out of Al Gore's fat face either. But we will eventually run out of fossil fuels I would imagine, so I guess we don't really have an option...

GD-1369211121

I still say that's some kind of colonial "jellyfish". I'm not saying that you're lying or anything. I'm just saying that whoever posted that picture as being part of the great pacific garbage field probably posted the wrong damn picture. They saw something that looked like a mess, and assumed that it was garbage.

And even if that is part of the great pacific garbage field, that picture doesn't really mean anyrthing since there's no sense of scale. It's just a little bit of messy-looking ****, and that does nothing if your goal is to try to say how bad te great pacific garbage field really is. All I see here are a bunch of squiggly lines that look like a jellyfish. Even if that is garbage and not a jellyfish, that still doesn't tell me anything since all I see are a bunch of squiggly lines.

[QUOTE="GD-1369211121"]

I am kinda for kinda against. I don't believe in global warming/climate change, what ever the hell they call it now. I dont believe anything that comes out of Al Gore's fat face either. But we will eventually run out of fossil fuels I would imagine, so I guess we don't really have an option...

Serraph105

Because he profits off of the green industry.

I am kinda for kinda against. I don't believe in global warming/climate change, what ever the hell they call it now. I dont believe anything that comes out of Al Gore's fat face either. But we will eventually run out of fossil fuels I would imagine, so I guess we don't really have an option...

I'm for gradual change that will not harm the economy or put excess burden on households already facing skyrocketing costs of living.

I believe there should be more done on a household level. Every new house built should be required to have the following:

• Insulation in both the walls, floors and roof
• Solar panels to generate enough electricity to sustain the house, based on the number of rooms
• An underground tank to catch any rain that lands on the roof and use it as tap water, at least 15,000 litres.

Whilst the cost of doing these things would add about $25,000-$30,000 to every new house, it would be made up in savings in the long-term, for both the household and the government. The household will save money by having less energy used to heat and cool the house, and spending less money on electricity and water. Governments would also save money in not having to build as many new power stations, power lines, water pipes or desalination plants. It's really win-win.

Also, because this is an initiative to save the government money in the long-term, the government should subsidise some of these costs.

so does that mean there shouldn't be any bills pushing for it?Serraph105

As long as they don't force me to do anything, I really don't care how they push for it.

Cap and trade is a perfect example of what I vehemently oppose.

I don't want the worlds air supply to become as dirty and fowl as LA's.dercoo

For. Unless you're on the payroll of an energy company, I don't see why you'd be against it.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]so does that mean there shouldn't be any bills pushing for it?airshocker

As long as they don't force me to do anything, I really don't care how they push for it.

Cap and trade is a perfect example of what I vehemently oppose.

For it I guess as long as I can still drive my Hummer!

While I think the "green movement" is a money making fleecing of sheep. I'm all for conservation and managment of our natural resources.Ken_Masterz

Nailed it.

I do try to take certain steps when I can, but unfortunately I don't go out of my way to do so. I do plan to take on a different attitude about that though.

I'm for it, though I am no green nazi by any means...

[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="GD-1369211121"]

I am kinda for kinda against. I don't believe in global warming/climate change, what ever the hell they call it now. I dont believe anything that comes out of Al Gore's fat face either. But we will eventually run out of fossil fuels I would imagine, so I guess we don't really have an option...

Radiatedrich91

Because he profits off of the green industry.

[QUOTE="Radiatedrich91"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]against green politics and for renewable energy.Serraph105

^ This is probably the most intelligent post on here so far.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"][QUOTE="Radiatedrich91"]

^ This is probably the most intelligent post on here so far.

Radiatedrich91

Well the problem is, the left tends to use climate change as a scare tactic just as the right uses terrorism.

I mean thats why we have politicians: to see the worries of the public and promise to do something about it.

The concept of going green is a great concept. However, the actual implementation of that concept has failed in many ways. l4dak47

True. I've tried buying energy saving bulbs but they cost triple the price an average light bulb costs.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]The concept of going green is a great concept. However, the actual implementation of that concept has failed in many ways. gamingqueen

True. I've tried buying energy saving bulbs but they cost triple the price an average light bulb costs.

But they last much longer and use less electricity, thus saving money in the long run.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

How are we hurting the enviornment?

MrGeezer

well they say a picture is worth a thousand words

known as the great pacific garbage patch

Huh?

That looks like a man-of-war "jellyfish".

That is not a Portuguese Man o War. It is a jellyfish of some sort and there are many different spieces.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]The concept of going green is a great concept. However, the actual implementation of that concept has failed in many ways. gamingqueen

True. I've tried buying energy saving bulbs but they cost triple the price an average light bulb costs.

you personally? probably not. However bill that push car companies to create more environment friendly vehicles and what not. I don't mean a bill that will require people to make modifications to their pre-existing possessions.Serraph105

Any type of bill that would make it more expensive for me to live my day to day life I am against.

People will buy hybrids and electric cars when they feel like it. Some people can't afford them. I'm one of those people. They don't make a decent hybrid truck that is within my price range. Why should I be punished for that?

I'm fully supportive of finding alternatives to shake our dependency on very limited fossil fuels.

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]you personally? probably not. However bill that push car companies to create more environment friendly vehicles and what not. I don't mean a bill that will require people to make modifications to their pre-existing possessions.airshocker

Any type of bill that would make it more expensive for me to live my day to day life I am against.

People will buy hybrids and electric cars when they feel like it. Some people can't afford them. I'm one of those people. They don't make a decent hybrid truck that is within my price range. Why should I be punished for that?

because people that can afford them without problems assume that is the norm and so a mandate wont hurt anyone and its better for the planet. that is why you should be punished, because people cant consider you. surrealnumber5

I can't tell if you're siding with me or lecturing me. =\

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]because people that can afford them without problems assume that is the norm and so a mandate wont hurt anyone and its better for the planet. that is why you should be punished, because people cant consider you. airshocker

I can't tell if you're siding with me or lecturing me. =\

cant it be both? surrealnumber5

I suppose.

I don't know how to respond to you, though, since it really didn't seem like a serious post. At least the second part didn't. I'll try anyway.

I think that's the problem with the green movement, they don't consider anybody else. That's why it's doomed for failure. People aren't going to do something just because the President or Harry Reid says it has to be done. They're certainly not going to support legislation that raises cost of living across the board. I kind of wish they would have gone for it, would have guaranteed Republicans taking back the house.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]cant it be both? airshocker

I suppose.

I don't know how to respond to you, though, since it really didn't seem like a serious post. At least the second part didn't. I'll try anyway.

I think that's the problem with the green movement, they don't consider anybody else. That's why it's doomed for failure. People aren't going to do something just because the President or Harry Reid says it has to be done. They're certainly not going to support legislation that raises cost of living across the board. I kind of wish they would have gone for it, would have guaranteed Republicans taking back the house.

I think that's the problem with the green movement, they don't consider anybody else.airshocker

Personally I think it's a bit too late to worry much about it but I suppose it doesn't hurt to try.

I'm all for green energy. Whether you agree with global warming or not (which i do) why wouldn't we? We are destroying eco systems and animal/plant life and even if you don't care about that, we are also harming our own health and well being with polution. Not to mention the growth potential of new industries.

:lol: okay.smc91352

Trying to ram legislation down, or rather supporting the ramming of said legislation, down my throat isn't very considerate.

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]The concept of going green is a great concept. However, the actual implementation of that concept has failed in many ways. Bourbons3

True. I've tried buying energy saving bulbs but they cost triple the price an average light bulb costs.

The kwh cost to run the bulbs over the lifetime more then offsets higher cost of the initial purchase.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]cant it be both? surrealnumber5

I suppose.

I don't know how to respond to you, though, since it really didn't seem like a serious post. At least the second part didn't. I'll try anyway.

I think that's the problem with the green movement, they don't consider anybody else. That's why it's doomed for failure. People aren't going to do something just because the President or Harry Reid says it has to be done. They're certainly not going to support legislation that raises cost of living across the board. I kind of wish they would have gone for it, would have guaranteed Republicans taking back the house.

Meh, the healthcare bill was popular on a component-by-component basis. It only wasn't popular when referred to as "Obama's healthcare bill." Not to mention constant lies about socialized medicine and death panels didn't help.

Trying to ram legislation down, or rather supporting the ramming of said legislation, down my throat isn't very considerate.airshocker