Uh, guys. This thread is about how people on OT believe in God. Don't turn it into a war about the existance of god. Thats not what this thread is about.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Uh, guys. This thread is about how people on OT believe in God. Don't turn it into a war about the existance of god. Thats not what this thread is about.
[QUOTE="FatSlasH"]It's called free will.I don't understand why you'd wanna worship a God that lets so many innocent people suffer, the only logical conclusion is
He doesn't exist
or
He's a jackass
m25105
So starvation, disease etc.is free will? Pretty sure nobody wanted that
It's called free will.[QUOTE="m25105"][QUOTE="FatSlasH"]
I don't understand why you'd wanna worship a God that lets so many innocent people suffer, the only logical conclusion is
He doesn't exist
or
He's a jackass
arbitor365
does that mean there wont be any "free will" in heaven?
If there is "free will" in heaven, than couldnt he clearly make a universe with "free will" without such things as aids, mutilation, war, disease, ect?
Of course there will be free will in paradise. No, the point in this life is to survive our first life here, before we enter the afterlife and that involves wars, sickness etc.Of course there will be free will in paradise. No, the point in this life is to survive our first life here, before we enter the afterlife and that involves wars, sickness etc.m25105
I fail to see the reason for this "preliminary" world of horror and unimaginable suffering. it seems pretty unnecessary
[QUOTE="m25105"] Of course there will be free will in paradise. No, the point in this life is to survive our first life here, before we enter the afterlife and that involves wars, sickness etc.arbitor365
I fail to see the reason for this "preliminary" world of horror and unimaginable suffering. it seems pretty unnecessary
Make a thread about the existence of god.I don't see how that is proof. LonelynightAKP is a religous party and most of the youth votes for it, there is a more or less growing religious feeling in Turkey where there was none before.
[QUOTE="m25105"] Of course there will be free will in paradise. No, the point in this life is to survive our first life here, before we enter the afterlife and that involves wars, sickness etc.arbitor365
I fail to see the reason for this "preliminary" world of horror and unimaginable suffering. it seems pretty unnecessary
Then you don't see it.
Make a thread about the existence of God if you want, the thread is getting derailed. Just wanted to comment these last two quotes.
AKP is a religous party and most of the youth votes for it, there is a more or less growing religious feeling in Turkey where there was none before.m25105Their ancestors were Muslim though, so the only thing this proves is that the Turkish people are more religiously active than the generation before them.
I a muslim too but my lack of prayings, interaction with athiests on the net all the time had made me less religious and to some extent questioning many things ..... I really do want to believe but that requires complete devotion and commitment, I dun think I have these, however I still think there some proof of god, the only proof which I found legit and simple enough for anyone .......... UR SOUL.
Great for u TC.
Here is a post of mine from a previous thread. It's a summary (although it gives the gyst of it).
[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]
Lately I've been avoiding posting in the religious themed threads because it's been my experience that they go nowhere. People go back and forth arguing a matter of faith by attempting to use the scientific method. To me, that makes little sense. However, that being said I find this particular topic a little intriguing.
I can't speak about anyone else but myself, so I'll just give a very brief history of the process of my conversion.
- Technically, I was born into a Jewish family. While they/we identified as Jewish, we were in no way a religious family. To be honest, the only way anyone could be able to tell we were Jewish would be to see a Manorah in the window during Hanukkah. As a child religion wasn't really part of my life and I never really thought about God at all. I really didn't have an opinion on the matter at all.
- As a teenager, like many other teenagers/young adults I was convinced I knew EVERYTHING. I was a devout atheist because if something couldn't be proven beyond any and all doubt, then it was nothing less than hogwash. I wouldn't go out of my way to ridicule religious people (as I see far too often here and in the real world) because I really didn't care what other people believed. "Don't bother me and I won't bother you" would be one way to describe it.
- When I was in my mid to late twenties I would ponder "the meaning of life" types of things (for back of a better phrase). I wondered if there is more to the world around me than meets the eye. I started to think about how we all got here (not just people, but the universe for that matter) with an evolving sort of "philosophy". (Again, for back of a better word). Forgetting about Judaism, Islam, Christianity or any other religion for the moment, the first question I sought an answer to was "Is there a God?"
- The more I thought about it, to more I started to think that there certainly could be. I began to look at the world again and noticed that literally nothing in the natural world is wasted. One animal defecates, and another animal/insect like a dung beetlecarts it off, as an example. If nothing gets wasted, I pondered, why is it impossible to think that people have a 'spiritual side' for a reason? I suppose one could argue that it has some type of ancient survival reason, and that might be partially true, but in my opinion I sensed that it is for more than ONLY that.I have neither the time nor the desire to go on and on about this, but over the course of a few years I came to the decision that there is, in fact, a God.
-Istarted reading about religions in general. Some things seemed to make sense while other things did not. Over time, I found myself drawn to Catholicism. A few years ago my wife (who wasn't particularly religious, yet was raised in a Catholic home) and I decided to go to Mass one Sunday afternoon. It was a wonderful experience. A lot of people make all kinds of accusations about religious services being nothing more than indoctrination attempts. Perhaps that is true in some place, but that was certainly not the case here. It was a Roman Catholic church if that means anything to anyone.
-After attending Masses for a year or so, I felt compelled to sign up for a year long RCIA class (Rites of Christian Innitiation for Adults). My wife, whom was baptized as a child but never received her confirmation decided to sign up as well. It was a long journey (not to say that it was joyless). Anyway, this past Easter Vigil I was baptized, and we both received our confirmation and communion (along with some other people that were in the class).
So, that's one individual story of "How can an atheist ever convert to a religion?"
As a side note, and again I can only speak for myself, I am certainly a religious person but I don't shun findings made by science in any way. I work in Civil, Structural and (to an extent) Mechanical Engineering by trade, so I can certainly appreciate the sciences. My wife works in the medical field, so she has a huge appreciation for advances made in medicine. I think thatGod set theuniverse in place, and science is our way to learn about His creation.
I personally believe in evolution, but I think the species have been "guided" in a way. I don't take each individual word of the Bible literally (for reasons including but not limited to the fact that I can't read it in it's original language). I do take some stories metaphorically. Sort of like how God did, in fact, make man from clay. Sort of like us evolving from that primordial ooze.
I could go on and on but theres no reason to really. I'm at work and wrote this off and on so I hope it makes any sense (gramatically that is). I guess in closing I'd just say that I think sometimes people have a huge miconception about "religous people" as if they are all fanatics that do nothing but pray all day and follow some priests orders. From my experiences, couldn't be farther from the truth.
YellowOneKinobi
I'll be honest when I read your name I didn't want to read your post, since we very often disagree on the middle east. But since I started the thread, I owed it to people posting about their.. awakening (if you want to call it that) and I found your story generally very enjoyable to read.
Edit: We might not agree on the middle east (and Israel in specific), but at least we can agree that there is a God.
Reading the Quran is always a great start, if you listen to random sheikh X from random Islamic shool Y, then all you get are hadiths and rules thrown at you, not understanding the concept of faith.I a muslim too but my lack of prayings, interaction with athiests on the net all the time had made me less religious and to some extent questioning many things ..... I really do want to believe but that requires complete devotion and commitment, I dun think I have these, however I still think there some proof of god, the only proof which I found legit and simple enough for anyone .......... UR SOUL.
Great for u TC.
omho88
i am only on the fence because my brother and i are what we are after what we have been through. if we had not been dealt disaster after disaster and walked through the poo store smelling of the finest Persian oils, i might have sided with those atheist people, though i doubt i'd be one of the loud annoying ones calling everyone stupid.
[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]
Here is a post of mine from a previous thread. It's a summary (although it gives the gyst of it).
[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]
m25105
I'll be honest when I read your name I didn't want to read your post, since we very often disagree on the middle east. But since I started the thread, I owed it to people posting about their.. awakening (if you want to call it that) and I found your story generally very enjoyable to read.
Edit: We might not agree on the middle east (and Israel in specific), but at least we can agree that there is a God.
As is probably the case more often than many of us realize (myself included), our similarities very well may be greater than our differences.Well I grew up in church so I didn't even really know there were people like "atheists." But really it was "yeah he's there so what" until it finally clicked and I accepted Christ as Savior and Lord. Since then it's clicked more and more for me as time goes on and I aspire to more in my relationship with Him.
Well I grew up in church so I didn't even really know there were people like "atheists." But really it was "yeah he's there so what" until it finally clicked and I accepted Christ as Savior and Lord. Since then it's clicked more and more for me as time goes on and I aspire to more in my relationship with Him.
J-man45
So you had no choice in the matter really, your parents indoctrinated you?
[QUOTE="J-man45"]
Well I grew up in church so I didn't even really know there were people like "atheists." But really it was "yeah he's there so what" until it finally clicked and I accepted Christ as Savior and Lord. Since then it's clicked more and more for me as time goes on and I aspire to more in my relationship with Him.
tenaka2
So you had no choice in the matter really, your parents indoctrinated you?
Not exactly. What I meant was they took me to church every sunday, and naturally I believed. Indoctrinated implies that they sat at home and forced me to believe in God while denying that any other option exists.
People still believe in god? o_O
We aren't living in medieval times anymore
Zurrur
People not being accepting of other people's beliefs? We must be farther back than medieval times!
Personal experiences is what has made me believe in God. If I never had experienced something from the Almighty then there would be no reason for me to believe.
[QUOTE="Zurrur"]
People still believe in god? o_O
We aren't living in medieval times anymore
ROFLCOPTER603
People not being accepting of other people's beliefs? We must be farther back than medieval times!
:lol: Perhaps[QUOTE="Zurrur"]
People still believe in god? o_O
We aren't living in medieval times anymore
ROFLCOPTER603
People not being accepting of other people's beliefs? We must be farther back than medieval times!
heck yea, like ww2 or somethingMake a thread about the existence of god. DroidPhysX
Make a thread about the existence of God if you wantm25105
when people ask me why I make so many religious topics I can now say that 2 Christians told me to.
I stopped believing about the age of 10, there simply is no evidence, and I'm not ther kind of person to blindly believe in things.
I choose to believe, because if I die believing, what have I lost if He doesn't exist? And if I die believing, I'm headed to an eternity in heaven. I'm not seeing anything wrong with that logic.3eyedrazorback
I do, you could believe in a wrong (non existant) god, which will send you straight to hell.
How are you so sure you are believing in the right god? Using that logic, you should believe in all the gods that we have made up, and let me tell you, that's many.
[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]The odds that everything in the universe was created and that our planet and life were created by some freak accident is so improbable that there most be something else out there.....though nothing religion wise has made me have any desire to follow them....XxxExtremeNJBXxThat's exactly why I think evolution is utter BS. scientists have never said it was a complete accident, where are u getting the idea that evolution is just a bunch of luck?
[QUOTE="3eyedrazorback"]I choose to believe, because if I die believing, what have I lost if He doesn't exist? And if I die believing, I'm headed to an eternity in heaven. I'm not seeing anything wrong with that logic. TheFlushI do, you could believe in a wrong (non existant) god, which will send you straight to hell.How are you so sure you are believing in the right god? Using that logic, you should believe in all the gods that we have made up, and let me tell you, that's many. Also, an omniscient God would know if you are believing for the reward rather than believing for threw sake of believing. And I doubt that God would like that.
[QUOTE="TheFlush"][QUOTE="3eyedrazorback"]I choose to believe, because if I die believing, what have I lost if He doesn't exist? And if I die believing, I'm headed to an eternity in heaven. I'm not seeing anything wrong with that logic. foxhound_foxI do, you could believe in a wrong (non existant) god, which will send you straight to hell.How are you so sure you are believing in the right god? Using that logic, you should believe in all the gods that we have made up, and let me tell you, that's many. Also, an omniscient God would know if you are believing for the reward rather than believing for threw sake of believing. And I doubt that God would like that.(NOT directed specifically at foxhound_fox)
From a lot of what I read on these threads as well as what I hear people say in the real world, I think part of the problem is that people seem to believe that God "thinks" as a person would. Almost as if they think of God basically as a man who just happens to have supernatural abilities.
For one example, fromwhat I've learned the phrase "In His image" doesn't mean that we physically look like God, it means that we are "spiritual beings."
I also think people sometimes have a misconception about referring to God as "Him." During my RCIA program, I cannot say how often and how strongly it was stressed that the term "Him" was simply used as a vehicle to refer to God and that there is no sex or gender that is applicable.
Since I'm rambling already, there is one last thing I want to touch on. I hear a lot of accusations that "religious people are just scared of going to hell." Well, I can see how that might be the case for some people. As for myself and those close to me, pretty much across the board our faith is based on love, not fear. Personally, other than times that I read/hear certain statements like that (or when the History channel has a nice documentary about Hell), I really can't say that the though of 'eternal damnation' ever really enters my psyche.
Thread is getting derailed again.m25105Yeah, it is and although I started out on track, I have to admit I was a part of the derailment. My apologies for that because it was, quite frankly, a refreshing topic/thread.
No one "made" me believe in God. In fact, thats a terrible way to say that, making it sound like someone is forcing people to believe. I chose to believe in God.
EDIT: There's a lot of haters on this board today. :|
No one "made" me believe in God. In fact, thats a terrible way to say that, making it sound like someone is forcing people to believe. I chose to believe in God.bbkkristianI'm pretty sure you don't need me to say this, but I will anyway.
There are just some people out there that are Haters. Unfortunately they tend to be more vocal as well. As someone who didn't grow up in a religious home, and was an athiest for many years, then came to find God.......... I know what you mean. Don't let the Haters bother you. If anything, as cliche as this sounds, forgive them, for they know not what they do/say.
I'm pretty sure you don't need me to say this, but I will anyway.[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]No one "made" me believe in God. In fact, thats a terrible way to say that, making it sound like someone is forcing people to believe. I chose to believe in God.YellowOneKinobi
There are just some people out there that are Haters. Unfortunately they tend to be more vocal as well. As someone who didn't grow up in a religious home, and was an athiest for many years, then came to find God.......... I know what you mean. Don't let the Haters bother you. If anything, as cliche as this sounds, forgive them, for they know not what they do/say.
Thanks. lol. Yeah, well I was raised Christian, but I was asked if I still believe in God a couple years ago, and my parents would have been perfectly fine if I said no but I chose then to believe and I'm actually the one who got my family to go to church. :)In time of need some1 answered my call and when it happened again it just couldnt have been a coincidence,
Tho i wouldnt classify myself as a devout Catholic of such i'm more of a Liberal Protestant as i dont beleive god created us but that he is there and hes something from the beggining of time that has great powers and a great prescence in our universe.
That being said i dont beleive in evolution, i beleive in the ancient astronaut theory of aliens creating us from the native hominids of earth and their dna.
You're attributing "Made" into someone forcing you. It doesn't have to be a person, it could be an event, a feeling or just from study.No one "made" me believe in God. In fact, thats a terrible way to say that, making it sound like someone is forcing people to believe. I chose to believe in God.
EDIT: There's a lot of haters on this board today. :|
bbkkristian
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment