So why does the americans reject obama's health plan?

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lightleggy

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#1 lightleggy
Member since 2008 • 16090 Posts

I dont see anything wrong about it, it will certainly help countless people, whats the problem with the plan???

I know this might be old news, but I always wanted to know the reason...

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duxup

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#2 duxup
Member since 2002 • 43443 Posts
Folks out there with a lot of money who make a lot of money off of the current system are really good at spreading FUD. Also it hurts when you have to make the hard choices to fix a broken system. No way around it, but folks never like it.
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ProudLarry

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#3 ProudLarry
Member since 2004 • 13511 Posts

Misinformation.

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I_am_george

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#4 I_am_george
Member since 2009 • 265 Posts

I dont see anything wrong about it, it will certainly help countless people, whats the problem with the plan???

I know this might be old news, but I always wanted to know the reason...

lightleggy

What's the plan? Why don't you describe it to us first then we can show where you are wrong.

(the Senate took 1500 pages to describe it, so, feel free to take some time if you need it)

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MrsSolidSnake

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#5 MrsSolidSnake
Member since 2009 • 5003 Posts

The doctors might force them all Tetanus shots like mine did this morning.

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dbowman

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#6 dbowman
Member since 2005 • 6836 Posts

I don't get it at all. Americans seem paranoid that their country is going to turn into the next Soviet Union if they accept the Health reforms.

Yet America has plenty is socialised services.... schools, police, fire service, libraries etc...

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turtlethetaffer

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#7 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

Dude, do you know how much debt we have?

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biggest_loser

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#8 biggest_loser
Member since 2007 • 24508 Posts

They just don't understand it because they've never had it before. It works for so many other countries, its just an insurance plan.

To Mr Debt above: if you stopped wasting billions overseas trying to "save" countries all in the name of Democracy you might be able afford it.

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tman93

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#9 tman93
Member since 2006 • 7769 Posts
Because war is fine, but helping people in our country is unacceptable.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#10 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
The biggest problem with the plan is that it's not single-payer.
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hot114

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#12 hot114
Member since 2003 • 4489 Posts

Dude, do you know how much debt we have?

turtlethetaffer
So whats a few extra million ontop of those numbers?
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turtlethetaffer

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#13 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

The thing that gets me is why the gov't wants everyone to have it. You may keep your current insurance, but if you do, you get a 40% tax added on to what you already pay, so you would be forced to do it, just inadvertently, unless you're filthy rich.

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Ace_WondersX

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#14 Ace_WondersX
Member since 2003 • 4455 Posts

Dude, do you know how much debt we have?

turtlethetaffer
This was my only complaint when he announced it,I was thinking "Not now" but other than that I agree with the public option, think it's a great idea.
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Omni-Slash

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#15 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
[QUOTE="hot114"][QUOTE="turtlethetaffer"]

Dude, do you know how much debt we have?

So whats a few extra million ontop of those numbers?

Hundreds of Billions....more govt intervention causes nothing but more problems.....
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turtlethetaffer

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#16 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

^THIS!

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MgamerBD

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#17 MgamerBD
Member since 2006 • 17550 Posts
People fear that is different...so then instead of looking it up. They turn to ignorance and complain.
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turtlethetaffer

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#18 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

So you're calling opposing views ignorant?

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Omni-Slash

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#19 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
People fear that is different...so then instead of looking it up. They turn to ignorance and complain.MgamerBD
or people have the right to worry.....our govt couldn't run cash for clunkers.....do you really want it running your healthcare?...
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bluezy

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#20 bluezy
Member since 2004 • 29297 Posts
The last topic got me riled up, but it was locked, so I present my opinion here: When did we get to this point? Where one side's ideas are the only chance to prevent some hyperbolic ****storm? This is insane. Christ, just freakin' work together. Maybe you'll actually get something done. Before you know it, the whole world will have moved past you. I know this is naive, I know it'll never happen, but it makes me sick that things are so backwards.
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duxup

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#21 duxup
Member since 2002 • 43443 Posts
The biggest problem with the plan is that it's not single-payer. -Sun_Tzu-
I would prefer such a system as well. I don't see several hopes for any system working if employers still call the shots.
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dbowman

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#22 dbowman
Member since 2005 • 6836 Posts

So you're calling opposing views ignorant?

turtlethetaffer

For the sake of humanity I hope the people rejecting the reforms are just ignorant.

If not then they are just plain evil.

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Omni-Slash

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#23 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
[QUOTE="dbowman"]

For the sake of humanity I hope the people rejecting the reforms are just ignorant.

If not then they are just plain evil.

:lol:....yup....and there you have it folks....this is what is considered discourse in America.....
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majwill24

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#24 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

You guys dont have the money to pay for it. Of course you can have the money for it if you close all over seas bases and cut military spending by 80%. Don't worry, your nuclear arsenal will ensure that invasion of the homeland by a foreign power will never happen. Also, the threat of terrorism will be lessened as well and probably could become a non issue if you guys cut the 10 billion in indirect and direct aid to Israel.

Come on america, for once stop being spoiled and thinking that you can have your cake and eat it too

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MgamerBD

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#25 MgamerBD
Member since 2006 • 17550 Posts
[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]People fear that is different...so then instead of looking it up. They turn to ignorance and complain.Omni-Slash
or people have the right to worry.....our govt couldn't run cash for clunkers.....do you really want it running your healthcare?...

excuse my ignorance...but what is cash for clunkers?
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Ace_WondersX

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#26 Ace_WondersX
Member since 2003 • 4455 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]The biggest problem with the plan is that it's not single-payer. duxup
I would prefer such a system as well. I don't see several hopes for any system working if employers still call the shots.

I think single-payer would be too big of a change for right now.
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Free_Marxet

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#27 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
I agree with everyone.
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tman93

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#28 tman93
Member since 2006 • 7769 Posts
[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]The biggest problem with the plan is that it's not single-payer. Ace_WondersX
I would prefer such a system as well. I don't see several hopes for any system working if employers still call the shots.

I think single-payer would be too big of a change for right now.

If they don't do it now, it probably won't happen, at least not for quite awhile.
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tman93

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#29 tman93
Member since 2006 • 7769 Posts
I agree with everyone.Free_Marxet
Thats odd, usually people take only one stance on an issue :P
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Free_Marxet

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#30 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
I dont understand why
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majwill24

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#31 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

excuse my ignorance...but what is cash for clunkers?

US government program that stimulated foreign car makers sales. :|

I had no idea why they thought people would buy badly made US cars.

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Free_Marxet

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#32 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
because apparently everyone just loves them to death, literally.
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RJay123

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#33 RJay123
Member since 2009 • 911 Posts

because we're American arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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duxup

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#34 duxup
Member since 2002 • 43443 Posts

excuse my ignorance...but what is cash for clunkers?majwill24

US government program that stimulated foreign car makers sales. :| I had no idea why they thought people would buy badly made US cars.

Because if the US limited to US cars, other nation's programs would have done the same. A battle of protectionism won't help anyone, far from it.

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Ace_WondersX

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#35 Ace_WondersX
Member since 2003 • 4455 Posts

majwill24

excuse my ignorance...but what is cash for clunkers?

US government program that stimulated foreign car makers sales. :|

I had no idea why they thought people would buy badly made US cars.

Actually American cars get a bad rap, the newest models are great quality and efficient, only problem are the unions raping the U.S. Auto Industry.
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Free_Marxet

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#36 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
If only Americans were more pirate like...
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#37 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]The biggest problem with the plan is that it's not single-payer. Ace_WondersX
I would prefer such a system as well. I don't see several hopes for any system working if employers still call the shots.

I think single-payer would be too big of a change for right now.

We don't have to switch overnight. The way I envision a transition to single-payer is just a gradual decrease in the Medicare-eligibility age. Basically, just bring it down from 65 to 55, then eventually bring it from 55 to 45, ect, until everyone is covered, and then vu la, America is saved.
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tman93

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#38 tman93
Member since 2006 • 7769 Posts
I dont understand whyFree_Marxet
idk its hard to support and oppose healthcare reform lol. (Why am I quoting you I know your joking haha).
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turtlethetaffer

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#39 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

I'm sick of people who oppose Obama being called names. WE ARE NOT EVIL FOR WANTING FREE MARKET ENTERPRISE! By the way, there will be around 17000000 people uninsured under this plan. (Study by the White House.)

Freedom of speech is under attack, it seems. I'm not a racist for opposing a bad plan.

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Free_Marxet

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#40 Free_Marxet
Member since 2009 • 1549 Posts
I think we need reliable public transport instead of all these fancy gizmo cars!@
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clyde46

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#41 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

I'll just leave this here.

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SUD123456

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#42 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 7059 Posts

Because highly complex issues are not easily communicated.

And because of this, it is very easy for reactionary forces to release alarmist soundbites.

And by reactionary forces, I mean all of those who are quite happy to maintain the status quo because it is in their interest to maintain the status quo. This includes some very large business, political, and special interests.

All of this makes it essentially impossible to have a fair and balanced hearing of the pros and cons of alternatives. There is no perfect solution. But the majority of Americans can't even get to the very first basic understanding that publicly funded does not have to mean publicly run. Which is how you get crazy people talking about death panels and such nonsense. And its how you get 50% of Americans thinking they currently have more choice, when in fact they have less choice, than in many publicly funded systems.

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tman93

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#43 tman93
Member since 2006 • 7769 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace_WondersX"][QUOTE="duxup"] I would prefer such a system as well. I don't see several hopes for any system working if employers still call the shots.-Sun_Tzu-
I think single-payer would be too big of a change for right now.

We don't have to switch overnight. The way I envision a transition to single-payer is just a gradual decrease in the Medicare-eligibility age. Basically, just bring it down from 65 to 55, then eventually bring it from 55 to 45, ect, until everyone is covered, and then vu la, America is saved.

The thing with that is, unless it is lumped into a single bill and passed into law, there will come a time when someone who disagrees with it comes into power and simply stops supporting it.
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Ace_WondersX

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#44 Ace_WondersX
Member since 2003 • 4455 Posts

I'm sick of people who oppose Obama being called names. WE ARE NOT EVIL FOR WANTING FREE MARKET ENTERPRISE! By the way, there will be around 17000000 people uninsured under this plan. (Study by the White House.)

Freedom of speech is under attack, it seems. I'm not a racist for opposing a bad plan.

turtlethetaffer
Nobody said that you're evil, but when people start complaining about socialism and gov't intervention. like they want a lassiez-faire free market, It looks ridiculous to me, especially when it's the middle and lower class.
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tman93

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#45 tman93
Member since 2006 • 7769 Posts
clyde, that picture is exactly what I posted on the first page in words :P
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turtlethetaffer

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#46 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

Holy... I'm sorry it's just that that political cartoon is wrong. Healthcare run by the gov't always goes over budget. Studies show it. And killing 3000 people in a terrorist attack is an act of war, I'd say.

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Ace_WondersX

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#47 Ace_WondersX
Member since 2003 • 4455 Posts

Holy... I'm sorry it's just that that political cartoon is wrong. Healthcare run by the gov't always goes over budget. Studies show it. And killing 3000 people in a terrorist attack is an act of war, I'd say.

turtlethetaffer

Except the terrorist were from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq or Afghanistan.

And don't say Al-Queda had a safe haven in Afghanistan, because they also have safe haven countries all over Africa and Asia and we didn't invade them.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#48 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

Holy... I'm sorry it's just that that political cartoon is wrong. Healthcare run by the gov't always goes over budget. Studies show it. And killing 3000 people in a terrorist attack is an act of war, I'd say.

turtlethetaffer
Is that why all those other countries with "government-run health care" pay about half as much as we do per capita?
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Theokhoth

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#49 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

Ignorance coupled by misinformation and propoganda. And to people saying this will be too much money, we already pay more money on healthcare than countries with full-blown socialised medicine (about double) and yet our healthcare isn't as quality. To people saying the government can't do it right,

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.

Finally, people saying this will increase our debt, :lol: not only is the cost of this bill a drop in the bucket (especially when compared to the annual cost of the War on Terror), but it will in the long run reduce the deficit by 81 billion dollars in just ten years.

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turtlethetaffer

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#50 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

Ace wonder, dbowman said that people who don't support healthcare are either ignorant, or evil. Look on the 2nd page. I'll tell you now, I'm neither. How abou this? Abortion doctors are evil.