So why does the americans reject obama's health plan?

Remember the fat baby that was denied coverage under a private insurer? Now here's one that's too small! Wow, you'd think the insurance companies would try to avoid PR disasters like these when health reform is being debated...

Remember the fat baby that was denied coverage under a private insurer? Now here's one that's too small! Wow, you'd think the insurance companies would try to avoid PR disasters like these when health reform is being debated...

Engrish_Major

The really funny thing is, people clamoring about big government would cry "death panel" in an instant if they did anything like this, but if the insurance companies do it then it's just "good business."

Remember the fat baby that was denied coverage under a private insurer? Now here's one that's too small! Wow, you'd think the insurance companies would try to avoid PR disasters like these when health reform is being debated...

Engrish_Major

I had to read through the whole thread to see that majority of the people who clamor for the U.S. to adopt this health care are: 1. from another country who only know of their system and have no experience with the U.S. current system - and have yet to experience how broken and selective their "system for everyone" is. 2. Younger, U.S. kiddies who don't work full-time to fully understand how much of their own money and freedom and choices and quality of health care they will be giving up because they dont earn a living or have any family to look out for. 3. Full-time workers who work the lower income bracket or feel philanthropic enough since they have no family to think about (or dont think about) I've experienced both systems and even if the U.S. system isnt the best and needs some tweaking - its is far better than "free" health care.Sajedene

Do you have any clue at all whatsoever what it is like for average and lower income people? To have necessary, life-saving healthcare without insurance (which is rejected regularly on the most frivolous reasons insurance companies can find; if you make a misspelling on an application, you can be denied insurance)requires to be put in debt for the rest of their lives. This impacts every aspect of their lives; it impacts future potential employers, it impacts their credit which impacts their home and vehicle opportunities, it impacts their education (if they're going to school or plan to go to school), it impacts everything. And why? Because they didn't want to die, or because they wanted to be healthy.

Your family can afford the healthcare here. I'm ****ing giddy for you. But there are way too many people who cannot afford it, and who are denied insurance because they may have had a great-grandparent with problems in the 1920s, either forcing them to go without healthcare or putting them in crippling debt for the rest of their lives (debt, that I might add, is passed on to their children). While every other industrialised country, with their "broken system" that consistently ranks light years above ours every single year, has health care for everyone who needs it and does not ruin their lives in the process of getting it and has a population that consistently ranks much healthier than ours.

One of the richest countries in the world should not cater to the rich people who can afford healthcare and ignore everyone else. So your family had an easier time getting healthcare here than there--goody, your family can afford it; you'll never have a problem with our healthcare system because you have money; if your family didn't have money then you'd have more problems here than there, because our current philosophy is, if you don't have money or if you're likely to get sick, you're not good enough. People skirting this basic human rights issue are no different from the people who skirted the issue of marriage when they passed DOMA into law.

I'm all for health care reform, I just don't agree with the government running it, because I just don't trust them enough to do a good job of it. The biggest problem with this whole debate, is that neither side really wants to have a debate. If your going to tell me the pros of one system, you have to tell me the cons of it as well, something that most people, especially those in favor of socialized healthcare, don't want to do, or even explore.InterpolWilco

The government would have to play some role in a health reform. Unless you are saying you want the health care industry to have less regulations.

[QUOTE="InterpolWilco"]I'm all for health care reform, I just don't agree with the government running it, because I just don't trust them enough to do a good job of it. The biggest problem with this whole debate, is that neither side really wants to have a debate. If your going to tell me the pros of one system, you have to tell me the cons of it as well, something that most people, especially those in favor of socialized healthcare, don't want to do, or even explore.gatorteen

The government would have to play some role in a health reform. Unless you are saying you want the health care industry to have less regulations.

I believe there should be some government over-site so all insurance companies have mandatory policy requirements but I too don't trust our government to actually be in charge of my healthcare. I've been to our local VA Hospitals and for a government run facilities they're quite antiquated compared to local private facilities.Unassigned

[QUOTE="Sajedene"]I had to read through the whole thread to see that majority of the people who clamor for the U.S. to adopt this health care are: 1. from another country who only know of their system and have no experience with the U.S. current system - and have yet to experience how broken and selective their "system for everyone" is. 2. Younger, U.S. kiddies who don't work full-time to fully understand how much of their own money and freedom and choices and quality of health care they will be giving up because they dont earn a living or have any family to look out for. 3. Full-time workers who work the lower income bracket or feel philanthropic enough since they have no family to think about (or dont think about) I've experienced both systems and even if the U.S. system isnt the best and needs some tweaking - its is far better than "free" health care.Theokhoth

Do you have any clue at all whatsoever what it is like for average and lower income people? To have necessary, life-saving healthcare without insurance (which is rejected regularly on the most frivolous reasons insurance companies can find; if you make a misspelling on an application, you can be denied insurance)requires to be put in debt for the rest of their lives. This impacts every aspect of their lives; it impacts future potential employers, it impacts their credit which impacts their home and vehicle opportunities, it impacts their education (if they're going to school or plan to go to school), it impacts everything. And why? Because they didn't want to die, or because they wanted to be healthy.

Your family can afford the healthcare here. I'm ****ing giddy for you. But there are way too many people who cannot afford it, and who are denied insurance because they may have had a great-grandparent with problems in the 1920s, either forcing them to go without healthcare or putting them in crippling debt for the rest of their lives (debt, that I might add, is passed on to their children). While every other industrialised country, with their "broken system" that consistently ranks light years above ours every single year, has health care for everyone who needs it and does not ruin their lives in the process of getting it and has a population that consistently ranks much healthier than ours.

One of the richest countries in the world should not cater to the rich people who can afford healthcare and ignore everyone else. So your family had an easier time getting healthcare here than there--goody, your family can afford it; you'll never have a problem with our healthcare system because you have money; if your family didn't have money then you'd have more problems here than there, because our current philosophy is, if you don't have money or if you're likely to get sick, you're not good enough.

Well said. Many of the people that are against a health care reform don't understand what people with lower income have to deal with when it comes to health care. It is our duties as American's to make sure that everyone in this nation can, at the very least, have livable conditions.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"]I had to read through the whole thread to see that majority of the people who clamor for the U.S. to adopt this health care are: 1. from another country who only know of their system and have no experience with the U.S. current system - and have yet to experience how broken and selective their "system for everyone" is. 2. Younger, U.S. kiddies who don't work full-time to fully understand how much of their own money and freedom and choices and quality of health care they will be giving up because they dont earn a living or have any family to look out for. 3. Full-time workers who work the lower income bracket or feel philanthropic enough since they have no family to think about (or dont think about) I've experienced both systems and even if the U.S. system isnt the best and needs some tweaking - its is far better than "free" health care.gatorteen

Do you have any clue at all whatsoever what it is like for average and lower income people? To have necessary, life-saving healthcare without insurance (which is rejected regularly on the most frivolous reasons insurance companies can find; if you make a misspelling on an application, you can be denied insurance)requires to be put in debt for the rest of their lives. This impacts every aspect of their lives; it impacts future potential employers, it impacts their credit which impacts their home and vehicle opportunities, it impacts their education (if they're going to school or plan to go to school), it impacts everything. And why? Because they didn't want to die, or because they wanted to be healthy.

Your family can afford the healthcare here. I'm ****ing giddy for you. But there are way too many people who cannot afford it, and who are denied insurance because they may have had a great-grandparent with problems in the 1920s, either forcing them to go without healthcare or putting them in crippling debt for the rest of their lives (debt, that I might add, is passed on to their children). While every other industrialised country, with their "broken system" that consistently ranks light years above ours every single year, has health care for everyone who needs it and does not ruin their lives in the process of getting it and has a population that consistently ranks much healthier than ours.

One of the richest countries in the world should not cater to the rich people who can afford healthcare and ignore everyone else. So your family had an easier time getting healthcare here than there--goody, your family can afford it; you'll never have a problem with our healthcare system because you have money; if your family didn't have money then you'd have more problems here than there, because our current philosophy is, if you don't have money or if you're likely to get sick, you're not good enough.

Well said. Many of the people that are against a health care reform don't understand what people with lower income have to deal with when it comes to health care. It is our duties as American's to make sure that everyone in this nation can, at the very least, have livable conditions.

And their response will be: "You get livable conditions; you just have to pay out the ass for it for the next five generations."

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="InterpolWilco"]I'm all for health care reform, I just don't agree with the government running it, because I just don't trust them enough to do a good job of it. The biggest problem with this whole debate, is that neither side really wants to have a debate. If your going to tell me the pros of one system, you have to tell me the cons of it as well, something that most people, especially those in favor of socialized healthcare, don't want to do, or even explore.Unassigned

The government would have to play some role in a health reform. Unless you are saying you want the health care industry to have less regulations.

It amazing that people would trust a private company, that has more interest in money then people, over a government that isconstitutionally bound to maintain the general welfare.

[QUOTE="Unassigned"] I believe there should be some government over-site so all insurance companies have mandatory policy requirements but I too don't trust our government to actually be in charge of my healthcare. I've been to our local VA Hospitals and for a government run facilities they're quite antiquated compared to local private facilities.Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Unassigned"] I believe there should be some government over-site so all insurance companies have mandatory policy requirements but I too don't trust our government to actually be in charge of my healthcare. I've been to our local VA Hospitals and for a government run facilities they're quite antiquated compared to local private facilities.Unassigned

Why must that change under healthcare reform?

[QUOTE="Unassigned"]

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

The government would have to play some role in a health reform. Unless you are saying you want the health care industry to have less regulations.

gatorteen

It amazing that people would trust a private company, that has more interest in money then people, over a government that isconstitutionally bound to maintain the general welfare.

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="Unassigned"] I believe there should be some government over-site so all insurance companies have mandatory policy requirements but I too don't trust our government to actually be in charge of my healthcare. I've been to our local VA Hospitals and for a government run facilities they're quite antiquated compared to local private facilities.

Unassigned

It amazing that people would trust a private company, that has more interest in money then people, over a government that isconstitutionally bound to maintain the general welfare.

It's not the doctors that's the problem; it's getting access to those doctors via insurance companies.

Healthcare here is fine. Getting access to it through the healthcare system is a nightmare. You can't sue insurance companies, to start with, and those doctors are not required to give you certain meds/treatments if you don't have insurance.

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="Unassigned"] I believe there should be some government over-site so all insurance companies have mandatory policy requirements but I too don't trust our government to actually be in charge of my healthcare. I've been to our local VA Hospitals and for a government run facilities they're quite antiquated compared to local private facilities.

Unassigned

It amazing that people would trust a private company, that has more interest in money then people, over a government that isconstitutionally bound to maintain the general welfare.

Im not talking about doctors im talking about insurance companies

Remember the fat baby that was denied coverage under a private insurer? Now here's one that's too small! Wow, you'd think the insurance companies would try to avoid PR disasters like these when health reform is being debated...

Engrish_Major

There was also one regarding rape .

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"]I had to read through the whole thread to see that majority of the people who clamor for the U.S. to adopt this health care are: 1. from another country who only know of their system and have no experience with the U.S. current system - and have yet to experience how broken and selective their "system for everyone" is. 2. Younger, U.S. kiddies who don't work full-time to fully understand how much of their own money and freedom and choices and quality of health care they will be giving up because they dont earn a living or have any family to look out for. 3. Full-time workers who work the lower income bracket or feel philanthropic enough since they have no family to think about (or dont think about) I've experienced both systems and even if the U.S. system isnt the best and needs some tweaking - its is far better than "free" health care.gatorteen

Do you have any clue at all whatsoever what it is like for average and lower income people? To have necessary, life-saving healthcare without insurance (which is rejected regularly on the most frivolous reasons insurance companies can find; if you make a misspelling on an application, you can be denied insurance)requires to be put in debt for the rest of their lives. This impacts every aspect of their lives; it impacts future potential employers, it impacts their credit which impacts their home and vehicle opportunities, it impacts their education (if they're going to school or plan to go to school), it impacts everything. And why? Because they didn't want to die, or because they wanted to be healthy.

Your family can afford the healthcare here. I'm ****ing giddy for you. But there are way too many people who cannot afford it, and who are denied insurance because they may have had a great-grandparent with problems in the 1920s, either forcing them to go without healthcare or putting them in crippling debt for the rest of their lives (debt, that I might add, is passed on to their children). While every other industrialised country, with their "broken system" that consistently ranks light years above ours every single year, has health care for everyone who needs it and does not ruin their lives in the process of getting it and has a population that consistently ranks much healthier than ours.

One of the richest countries in the world should not cater to the rich people who can afford healthcare and ignore everyone else. So your family had an easier time getting healthcare here than there--goody, your family can afford it; you'll never have a problem with our healthcare system because you have money; if your family didn't have money then you'd have more problems here than there, because our current philosophy is, if you don't have money or if you're likely to get sick, you're not good enough.

Well said. Many of the people that are against a health care reform don't understand what people with lower income have to deal with when it comes to health care. It is our duties as American's to make sure that everyone in this nation can, at the very least, have livable conditions.

I suggest you all visit the poor and the destitute in this country and see the "poor" is not so much poor as compared to say - third world countries - and most of the people you will see are poor due to their own doing. Drugs, welfare dependent and choosing to get bailed out by the government, etc. I do not want my tax dollars paying for these people. Call me evil - I don't care. I need to look out for my needs and the needs of my family. Not the needs of some family living in the slums because of being cracked out on drugs.Sajedene

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] I suggest you all visit the poor and the destitute in this country and see the "poor" is not so much poor as compared to say - third world countries - and most of the people you will see are poor due to their own doing. Drugs, welfare dependent and choosing to get bailed out by the government, etc. I do not want my tax dollars paying for these people. Call me evil - I don't care. I need to look out for my needs and the needs of my family. Not the needs of some family living in the slums because of being cracked out on drugs.Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] I suggest you all visit the poor and the destitute in this country and see the "poor" is not so much poor as compared to say - third world countries - and most of the people you will see are poor due to their own doing. Drugs, welfare dependent and choosing to get bailed out by the government, etc. I do not want my tax dollars paying for these people. Call me evil - I don't care. I need to look out for my needs and the needs of my family. Not the needs of some family living in the slums because of being cracked out on drugs.Sajedene

Those damn junkies, leeching the tax dollars of the worthy!

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Do you have any clue at all whatsoever what it is like for average and lower income people? To have necessary, life-saving healthcare without insurance (which is rejected regularly on the most frivolous reasons insurance companies can find; if you make a misspelling on an application, you can be denied insurance)requires to be put in debt for the rest of their lives. This impacts every aspect of their lives; it impacts future potential employers, it impacts their credit which impacts their home and vehicle opportunities, it impacts their education (if they're going to school or plan to go to school), it impacts everything. And why? Because they didn't want to die, or because they wanted to be healthy.

Your family can afford the healthcare here. I'm ****ing giddy for you. But there are way too many people who cannot afford it, and who are denied insurance because they may have had a great-grandparent with problems in the 1920s, either forcing them to go without healthcare or putting them in crippling debt for the rest of their lives (debt, that I might add, is passed on to their children). While every other industrialised country, with their "broken system" that consistently ranks light years above ours every single year, has health care for everyone who needs it and does not ruin their lives in the process of getting it and has a population that consistently ranks much healthier than ours.

One of the richest countries in the world should not cater to the rich people who can afford healthcare and ignore everyone else. So your family had an easier time getting healthcare here than there--goody, your family can afford it; you'll never have a problem with our healthcare system because you have money; if your family didn't have money then you'd have more problems here than there, because our current philosophy is, if you don't have money or if you're likely to get sick, you're not good enough.

Sajedene

Well said. Many of the people that are against a health care reform don't understand what people with lower income have to deal with when it comes to health care. It is our duties as American's to make sure that everyone in this nation can, at the very least, have livable conditions.

What you need to do is educated yourself on these developing countries, because its obvious that youknownothing about developing countries. Almost every developing country was either exploited by another country on their way to becoming a superpoweroris resource poor. Third world countries don't become poorbecause citizens are lazy, or dumb.

edit: I misread you post but it what i said still stands. You take a look through american history, and you see that people who are poor are poor because of what history gave them.

What you need to do is educated yourself on these developing countries, because its obvious that youknownothing about developing countries. Almost every developing country was either exploited by another country on their way to becoming a superpoweroris resource poor. Third world countries don't become poorbecause citizens are lazy, or dumb.

gatorteen

Another factor that leads them to becoming poor is the selfish attitutde of spoiled rich brats in their country that got lucky and just blamed all the problems of "the commonfolk" on themselves.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="gatorteen"]

Well said. Many of the people that are against a health care reform don't understand what people with lower income have to deal with when it comes to health care. It is our duties as American's to make sure that everyone in this nation can, at the very least, have livable conditions.

gatorteen

What you need to do is educated yourself on these developing countries, because its obvious that youknownothing about developing countries. Almost every developing country was either exploited by another country on their way to becoming a superpoweroris resource poor. Third world countries don't become poorbecause citizens are lazy, or dumb.

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] I suggest you all visit the poor and the destitute in this country and see the "poor" is not so much poor as compared to say - third world countries - and most of the people you will see are poor due to their own doing. Drugs, welfare dependent and choosing to get bailed out by the government, etc. I do not want my tax dollars paying for these people. Call me evil - I don't care. I need to look out for my needs and the needs of my family. Not the needs of some family living in the slums because of being cracked out on drugs.LJS9502_basic

What you need to do is educated yourself on these developing countries, because its obvious that youknownothing about developing countries. Almost every developing country was either exploited by another country on their way to becoming a superpoweroris resource poor. Third world countries don't become poorbecause citizens are lazy, or dumb.

Yeah i edited my last post

Ololol because I worked hard to make money and I wont waste them on nonsense olololol.

the reasons americans put down free health care are stupid im sure.

the reasons americans put down free health care are stupid im sure.

reveiwer

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] I suggest you all visit the poor and the destitute in this country and see the "poor" is not so much poor as compared to say - third world countries - and most of the people you will see are poor due to their own doing. Drugs, welfare dependent and choosing to get bailed out by the government, etc. I do not want my tax dollars paying for these people. Call me evil - I don't care. I need to look out for my needs and the needs of my family. Not the needs of some family living in the slums because of being cracked out on drugs.LJS9502_basic

What you need to do is educated yourself on these developing countries, because its obvious that youknownothing about developing countries. Almost every developing country was either exploited by another country on their way to becoming a superpoweroris resource poor. Third world countries don't become poorbecause citizens are lazy, or dumb.

[QUOTE="reveiwer"]

the reasons americans put down free health care are stupid im sure.

LJS9502_basic

Unless he strongly believes in the preservation of life for everyone.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="reveiwer"]

the reasons americans put down free health care are stupid im sure.

gatorteen

Unless he strongly believes in the preservation of life for everyone.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="gatorteen"]

What you need to do is educated yourself on these developing countries, because its obvious that youknownothing about developing countries. Almost every developing country was either exploited by another country on their way to becoming a superpoweroris resource poor. Third world countries don't become poorbecause citizens are lazy, or dumb.

Sajedene

What can I say; generalising the poor as "cracked out on drugs" tells me you're vastly out of touch with lower incomes. The fact that you don't givce a **** after supposedly "experiencing it for yourself" only helps me reach that conclusion.

I don't care what you've done; you haven't seen diddly if you honestly think people in the US are only poor because they did it to themselves.

And how can I generalise you--an individual can't be a generalisation. :lol: Not all rich people are spoiled brats.

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Seems if you don't know what the reasons are you shouldn't judge them.......LJS9502_basic

Unless he strongly believes in the preservation of life for everyone.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="gatorteen"]

What you need to do is educated yourself on these developing countries, because its obvious that youknownothing about developing countries. Almost every developing country was either exploited by another country on their way to becoming a superpoweroris resource poor. Third world countries don't become poorbecause citizens are lazy, or dumb.

Sajedene

The reason why 3rd world countries struggle are directly applicable to the reasons why poor people in American struggle. Now it may not be at the same level, but these people deserve to be treated with the basic right of health care. You of all be people should understand that.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="gatorteen"]

Unless he strongly believes in the preservation of life for everyone.

Sajedene

Because a thousandth of a dollar from your weekly paycheck will just cripple you.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] That is not a logical correlation. You cannot assume the reason one is against government health care is that they don't believe in the preservation of life for everyone.:|Theokhoth

Because a thousandth of a dollar from your weekly paycheck will just cripple you.

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Seems if you don't know what the reasons are you shouldn't judge them.......LJS9502_basic

Unless he strongly believes in the preservation of life for everyone.

No what im saying isthat reveiwer might believe thattheir should be no reason that someone should be against the preservation of life for everyone.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I got the impression she was saying the US poor are not as destitute as third world countries. Not putting down the third world countries....gatorteen

The reason why 3rd world countries struggle are directly applicable to the reasons why poor people in American struggle. Now it may not be at the same level, but these people deserve to be treated with the basic right of health care. You of all be people should understand that.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] I guess apparently our own personal life and well being as well as our family is not as important of those strangers who can't afford health care or can't figure out a way to utilize the aid programs for themselves. We're all supposed to be martyrs for being able to work and earn a living. Teenaged

Because a thousandth of a dollar from your weekly paycheck will just cripple you.

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] Pretty much. I also find it funny that I am being condemned for "generalizing" the poor in the U.S. when I have actually gone out and participated in philanthropy and seen it with my own eyes - and yet I am generalized and it is assumed I am well to do and a spoiled, rich brat... right Theo?Sajedene

The reason why 3rd world countries struggle are directly applicable to the reasons why poor people in American struggle. Now it may not be at the same level, but these people deserve to be treated with the basic right of health care. You of all be people should understand that.

Again, you must really hate paying for clean water, electricity, roads, functional vehicles, the Internet, phone service, food stamps, public education and police service; all those dirty poor people stealing your money!

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] Pretty much. I also find it funny that I am being condemned for "generalizing" the poor in the U.S. when I have actually gone out and participated in philanthropy and seen it with my own eyes - and yet I am generalized and it is assumed I am well to do and a spoiled, rich brat... right Theo?Sajedene

The reason why 3rd world countries struggle are directly applicable to the reasons why poor people in American struggle. Now it may not be at the same level, but these people deserve to be treated with the basic right of health care. You of all be people should understand that.

So you are saying that the government shouldn't help people that are born into a society that gives them less opportunity then others.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Because a thousandth of a dollar from your weekly paycheck will just cripple you.

Sajedene

......babies.................and make-up products. Right thats so equatable. :roll:

Anyway my point was not that you shouldnt buy cosmetics but yeah when you say that an added tax will so much change your life while you are well off in the financial sector, you do come off as spoiled.

Me of all people understand that some make it and some dont. Welcome to reality. I am not a saint nor do I plan to be one. My concern is my welfare, my family and my future family. I do not need to be forced or to be burdened by providing for others I do not care about. If you care about them so much - then do something about it. I don't care so much as you do and yet I feel like I've done a whole lot more than what you can say for yourself.Sajedene